Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 29, 2020 12:57:12 GMT -6
I sent an email to Unsealed.org but thought I would post this here.
Why does everyone refer to Daniel 9:27 as the anti-Christ? This makes no sense in context. Let me explain...
The "he" in Daniel 9:27 is referring back to "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25. In Daniel 9:26, "the people of the prince" is referring to the gentile/Romans, the ones who would later follow Jesus Christ. It was the later followers, the Romans, who would destroy the city and cause the desolation. What was the abomination that caused the desolation? Christ being crucified on the cross. The Jews are being judged for there sins. That's the whole reason why they were scattered among the world. Why did the daily sacrifice end in the midst of a week? Because the Romans started the destruction of the city in 67AD and completed it in 70AD. Daniel's 70 week prophecy has been fulfilled. Daniel 9:24 explains what this is all about, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins..." which The Lord did end. He, Jesus, shed His blood for the sins but the Jews still did not repent to Him and therefor judgement came upon the people and their city.
As for Revelation, I believe it is older than we think. The first horseman has a bow which refers to the Greeks. The second has a sword which refers to the Romans. The third horseman has scales which refers to Israels judgement and times were hard during the Roman occupation. The last horseman (Roman Empire) conquers a forth part of the Earth or known world. Then Revelation 6:12 describes what happened at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. This is all prophecy of what was to come because now look at Revelation 12. Jesus is being born in Israel (woman described with 12 star crown). A star for every tribe of Israel. The very first verse describes the sign in the sky people saw in those days and the three wise men followed.
Color of the horses and their appearance and actions described.
1.) White horse. Alexander the Great conquers the known world to spread the Greek language. He's on a white horse because he is doing the Lord's work so that the gospel can be read throughout the known world later on.
2.) Red horse. Roman empire wore red and shed a lot of blood.
3.) Black horse. It's judgement coming to the people of Israel for there lack of repentance. They loose their land and city in 70AD.
4.) Green horse. This rider conquers with a sword, taxes, and had a colosseum to kill by beast (lions). Once again, the Roman empire. The horse is pale green because The Lord has made the Jews green with envy (sick to their stomachs) because The Lord has grafted in the gentiles because of their sins they would not repent.
Anyways, I could keep going on and on but I think Bible prophecy has become verbatim within the church and most stick to the one theory.
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 29, 2020 13:24:56 GMT -6
Oh yeah. To prove their is no abomination that causes desolation again like in 70 AD. For those who believe this happens again in a seven year period later or yet to come. Just read Amos 9:15, "I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them,” Says the LORD your God."
Who can go against what The Lord has said? It will not happen again.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 29, 2020 20:38:51 GMT -6
This is just a recommendation, but I would like to point out people should equate the entire chapter of Matthew 24 with Daniel 9:27... especially since Jesus Christ Himself references Daniel 9:27 specifically as to the topic Christ was talking about in Matthew.
That topic was:
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
... Jesus references Daniel 9:27...
And since this hasn't happened yet:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
"the abomination that causes desolation" will... happen in the future... as Christ was talking about His coming and the end of the world, not 70AD.
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 29, 2020 22:40:48 GMT -6
uscgvet , Yes, I agree. People should read both but most miss the context. Here's the breakdown... Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus leaves the temple and talks about how not one stone would be left upon another. Referencing the destruction of Jerusalem. This is one of the topics the disciples want to know about. Matthew 24:3, The disciples ask two questions. When will this be (the destruction of Temple/Jerusalem) and when will the sign of His coming and end be. Matthew 24:4-14 Jesus describes the false prophets and witnessing the gospel to all nations. Matthew 24:15-20 Jesus is now talking about the abomination that causes desolation. A one time event that causes the desolation in 70AD. An earthquake happens at His crucifixion. I'm sure this caused much destruction. So there's a warning for those who followed Christ. Matthew 24:21-51 Jesus now goes on to talk about false prophets again as stated in Matthew 24:4-14 and more but in more detail. So, the disciples ask two questions and get answers for both. The destruction of Jerusalem and His second coming. How do we know that there is a change in topics/questions between Matthew 24:15-20? 1.) Matthew 24:21 Jesus is now talking about The Great Tribulation, so why does it matter if it is winter or the Sabbath as stated in Matthew 24:20? It's The Great Tribulation. No days nor season will make The Great Tribulation any better than another. The topic has changed back to the second coming and the end of days. 2.) The Amos 9:15 promise by The Lord.
3.) What I described in the first topic. At least the way I already see it in Daniel, etc.
I don't declare to be 100% correct or a know it all but this is how I see it. If the context or chapter starts off stating an event and the disciples ask how this is going to happen. I would assume that it is being answered and it just happens to fit the way I see Daniel and Revelation. Just something to think about.
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Post by mike on Jan 30, 2020 6:07:15 GMT -6
Oh yeah. To prove their is no abomination that causes desolation again like in 70 AD. For those who believe this happens again in a seven year period later or yet to come. Just read Amos 9:15, "I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them,” Says the LORD your God." Who can go against what The Lord has said? It will not happen again. Hi joe welcome to the unsealed forum. Can you help me with the connection between the two? If there is or isnt a second abomination (beyond 70AD) what has it to do with "them being planted in their land, no longer being pulled up..." |
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2020 7:41:30 GMT -6
Hi joe welcome to the unsealed forum. Can you help me with the connection between the two? If there is or isnt a second abomination (beyond 70AD) what has it to do with "them being planted in their land, no longer being pulled up..." Thank you very much!
The abomination is what caused the desolation in 70AD. The Jews are judged for not acknowledging The Lord when He showed up, not repenting their sins, and The Lord has scattered them among the world. This is a hefty price they have to pay, at least until the 1947. The Lord has and is now gathering them to return to their land as promised. Why? So the rest of prophecy can be fulfilled and the Lord is returning within a generation. There can not be another desolation of the Jews from their land again. Jesus says no one will pluck them or take them out of their land again. This is a command of The Lord. If The Lord's words are always true, then so is this command. So how could there be another abomination that causes a desolation of the Jews again?
I know this may sound different than what you have learned but there's one thing I always do or believe in. If Jesus said it, then it is true. For example. Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. Jesus was the only one that could. Therefor, even though we can repent of our sins, the Law still stands. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Now if you read Paul's writings, he states in a few places that The Law is no longer as we could not keep it. Now whether this is just badly worded or not explained properly by Paul, it couldn't be further form the truth. People like Scotty Clark (eternalrythmflow) on Youtube is beginning to preach false doctrine because of this. If I had to take anyone's word for anything, it will be our Lord's.
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Post by mike on Jan 30, 2020 8:03:12 GMT -6
Joe said: I have learned many things sir. I have learned that not everything people say holds merit against the word. I have also learned that non-essentials need to remain that way. Also my view on things shouldnt be held on too tightly as perspective/vantage point of others is worth considering to help gain a full or more complete picture. My question posed was to understand the connection, which I still do not see. If there is an AoD in the days, weeks, years to come - I do not see that the event or the AC/False Prophet would drive the Jews from the land. Dont see your connection between the two.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 30, 2020 8:33:33 GMT -6
Just for those who want to read up, Matthew 24/Mark 13/Luke 21, in parallel, cover the same question posed to Jesus of the sign of His coming and end of times.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 30, 2020 8:54:52 GMT -6
Hi joe welcome to the unsealed forum. Can you help me with the connection between the two? If there is or isnt a second abomination (beyond 70AD) what has it to do with "them being planted in their land, no longer being pulled up..." Thank you very much!
The abomination is what caused the desolation in 70AD. The Jews are judged for not acknowledging The Lord when He showed up, not repenting their sins, and The Lord has scattered them among the world. This is a hefty price they have to pay, at least until the 1947. The Lord has and is now gathering them to return to their land as promised. Why? So the rest of prophecy can be fulfilled and the Lord is returning within a generation. There can not be another desolation of the Jews from their land again. Jesus says no one will pluck them or take them out of their land again. This is a command of The Lord. If The Lord's words are always true, then so is this command. So how could there be another abomination that causes a desolation of the Jews again?
I know this may sound different than what you have learned but there's one thing I always do or believe in. If Jesus said it, then it is true. For example. Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. Jesus was the only one that could. Therefor, even though we can repent of our sins, the Law still stands. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Now if you read Paul's writings, he states in a few places that The Law is no longer as we could not keep it. Now whether this is just badly worded or not explained properly by Paul, it couldn't be further form the truth. People like Scotty Clark (eternalrythmflow) on Youtube is beginning to preach false doctrine because of this. If I had to take anyone's word for anything, it will be our Lord's.
Paul's letters are not badly worded and are very exceptionally well explained that God's Grace is the free gift we are under today, through His shed blood, and that the very words of the Law were nailed to His cross (Colossians 2:14).  We who believe in the Gospel defined by Paul in 1 Cor 15:1-9 are not under the law (Romans 6:14). We died to the Law... but only for those who believe in Christ's work on the cross, but the Law still stands for everyone else still breathing air. Edit, I re-worded my last sentence to be more accurate. |
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2020 9:09:45 GMT -6
uscgvet, I agree with Paul's writings too but the one. The Law did not die. Otherwise, why should we be told to repent and change our ways if there is no Law? For example, if you have rules for your child, he/she breaks one and ask for forgiveness. You forgive the child and do not punish he/she but your law/rule still stands. Does it not? "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." What are Jesus' words. From the very beginning, it was and is The Law. It was and is the very words He gave to Moses so that we may obey them.
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2020 9:15:53 GMT -6
mike, I don't see why you don't understand? How can there be two desolations of the Jews when Jesus said that when He returns them to their land, the Jews, will not be removed ever again. It's really simple. Jesus words are true and therefor the event can not happen again. I don't know how to explain that any clearer.
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2020 9:18:41 GMT -6
uscgvet , “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” - Matthew 5:17
Maybe Paul did not get the memo? (stating in a silly manner but you know what I mean)
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Post by mike on Jan 30, 2020 9:28:14 GMT -6
mike , I don't see why you don't understand? How can there be two desolations of the Jews when Jesus said that when He returns them to their land, the Jews, will not be removed ever again. It's really simple. Jesus words are true and therefor the event can not happen again. I don't know how to explain that any clearer. How would a second AoD cause the Jews to be expelled from or leave their land? This is the part where I dont see the connection |
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Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
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Post by Joe on Jan 30, 2020 9:40:47 GMT -6
mike , I don't see why you don't understand? How can there be two desolations of the Jews when Jesus said that when He returns them to their land, the Jews, will not be removed ever again. It's really simple. Jesus words are true and therefor the event can not happen again. I don't know how to explain that any clearer. How would a second AoD cause the Jews to be expelled from or leave their land? This is the part where I dont see the connection Because the word "desolation" means to depopulate, abandon, ruin, loneliness. This already happened. How can it happen again when we are told it will not.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 30, 2020 9:41:58 GMT -6
uscgvet , I agree with Paul's writings too but the one. The Law did not die. Otherwise, why should we be told to repent and change our ways if there is no Law? For example, if you have rules for your child, he/she breaks one and ask for forgiveness. You forgive the child and do not punish he/she but your law/rule still stands. Does it not? "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." What are Jesus' words. From the very beginning, it was and is The Law. It was and is the very words He gave to Moses so that we may obey them. Matthew 5 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. By this logic, since your heart hath caused you to commit adultery, cut it out. Let's go further shall we... Mark 7 20 That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Your very thoughts from the heart defile you. From one thought to the next. And now let's go to James... James 2 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Now, if we are to follow the law, and your brain, from your heart, is guilty of just 1 single thought... which violates the law in any shape or form, you sinned against God and you are literally guilty of the entire law... You don't even have to physically commit the act... Just thinking it condemns you. Now turn your thoughts away from any form of sin and only think of non-violating thoughts. Good luck with that. I'll just trust in the blood of Christ and be done with it. |
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We who believe in the Gospel defined by Paul in 1 Cor 15:1-9 are not under the law (Romans 6:14). We died to the Law... but only for those who believe in Christ's work on the cross, but the Law still stands for everyone else still breathing air.