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Post by mike on Oct 30, 2017 8:16:16 GMT -6
disciple4life this piece of your reply here caught my eye We are warned but not given a specific time for the rapture and believe we can calculate the second coming within a 7 year time frame (regardless of belief of rapture timing). Perhaps this synopsis helps us understand the rapture possibly not connected to a feast. Good stuff D4L
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Post by claire on Oct 30, 2017 9:40:46 GMT -6
I have been driven along for the longest time by the argument/hypothesis that the Rapture must fall on a feast day because Jesus fulfilled all the Spring feasts. Lately, my thinking is more along the line of this :
Jesus' birth, death and resurrection was part of his coming as the Jewish Messiah. His first coming was for the Jews first then the Gentiles. There is a Jewish connection here so these events falling on Jewish Feast days makes sense. The Fall feasts should be fulfilled by His second coming because again, the attention would be for Israel, so fulfilling feast days makes sense. But the Church age and Rapture has no direct connection to Jewish feast days so it is highly possible that the Rapture need not fall on a feast day.
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Post by MikeTaft on Oct 30, 2017 12:54:55 GMT -6
Welcome to the forums claire ! I agree with you that the feast are related to the Jews. Most of Israelite History in the Bible shows us that they lived primarily faith by sight. I believe many were counted righteous (Abraham, Rahab, etc.) because they lived by faith and not by sight. Jesus Himself said the only sign that would be given to them was the Sign of Jonah, being 3 days and 3 nights in the grave and rising after. This coincided with a feast. We have to rightly divide the word and understand that some things are for the Jewish nation and then things for those of us grafted into spiritual Israel because we are gentiles (majority of us, there are Messianic Jews apart of the Church today). Either way we can clearly see the "writing on the wall" that we are in the season of the rapture. It's like were in the rocket, ready to blast off, and the final seconds are counting down. We're just waiting on Houston Control to give the green light for launch!  |
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 30, 2017 16:53:56 GMT -6
disciple4life this piece of your reply here caught my eye We are warned but not given a specific time for the rapture and believe we can calculate the second coming within a 7 year time frame (regardless of belief of rapture timing). Perhaps this synopsis helps us understand the rapture possibly not connected to a feast. Good stuff D4L So, Mike, - do you mean, that the way you see the Noah piece, is that we will have some kind of warning - to the righteous, like a Massive earthquake, or Nuclear war or an attack against Israel.?? So many people were 'sure' that the Revelation sign was "the sign". I'm still of the opinion that it might be, but we're getting farther and farther away from the "Falling Rocks" sign in the road. What kind of thing would we know was a sign God was really warning us? Also, as for "Calculate the second coming within a 7 year time period" - what do you mean? I presume you mean we/ Christians will be taken, so the 7 year time frame would be us seeing from Heaven?? I want to make sure I understand you, buddy. ;-) Do you think it would be a seven day warning. As I consider whatif's thread and "as it was in the days of Noah" and the possible meaning of that, the only connections I can see to Lot and Noah, are the warning, and the fact that people were going about their lives, and sin was rampant. whatif - what is your take on the Noah connection to the return of Christ? thoughts? Maranatha,
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Post by mike on Oct 30, 2017 17:08:54 GMT -6
Neither was connected to a feast (that we are aware of) so is it possible that what we have been told from many for many years is accurate, rapture is a sign less event?
However perhaps there is a warning? Like Noah had, Lot technically had a warning too, the angels came to get him outta there.
But
No one knows the day or hour still has to have some validity, which is what I was alluding to in the calculation of the 7 yes. No different than before...
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Post by whatif on Oct 30, 2017 19:58:46 GMT -6
This video,for what it's worth. . . Hello whatif , watchmanjim , The link is not available, not working. Says there was a copyright claim. ;-( Can you give the exact title, or post another link?? D4L
Hi, disciple4life! I don't recall what the title is, but perhaps watchmanjim will know. |
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Post by whatif on Oct 30, 2017 20:41:55 GMT -6
disciple4life this piece of your reply here caught my eye We are warned but not given a specific time for the rapture and believe we can calculate the second coming within a 7 year time frame (regardless of belief of rapture timing). Perhaps this synopsis helps us understand the rapture possibly not connected to a feast. Good stuff D4L As I consider whatif 's thread and "as it was in the days of Noah" and the possible meaning of that, the only connections I can see to Lot and Noah, are the warning, and the fact that people were going about their lives, and sin was rampant. whatif - what is your take on the Noah connection to the return of Christ? thoughts?
I suspect it has quite a bunch of different aspects to it, disciple4life! Here are a few thoughts:
Luke 17:26-30 seems to suggest that life as we all know it will be going on just like usual when the day of the Lord comes. I suspect that means that people who are not watching for His return will be going about their lives, not aware that the day of distress is about to hit. "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed."
Another aspect is that both Noah and Lot were saved from the judgment, rescued before the destruction came. I think this is a good indication that the rapture will happen before the tribulation period begins--whether that means prior to the 1st Seal or prior to the 1st Trumpet judgment.
I don't recall if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but it is interesting to me that the rainbow is now connected not only with the days of Noah (as God's promise) but also with the days of Lot (symbol of the homosexual agenda). I'm seeing this as a huge sign that we're in the days of Noah and Lot at this very moment, waiting for the call by God to get aboard the ark or for the angels to take us by our hands and pull us to safety.
A speculative aspect to the days of Noah would be the subject of the Nephilim. We've speculated in several threads that there may be an "alien" deception at the time of the rapture to explain it away. I've also heard some speculation that Sodom and Gomorrah were Nephilim cities.
In both Lot's and Noah's day, evil was rampant. We know about the immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:13 tells us the angels told Lot "...we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.” Also we know of the violence of Noah's day. Genesis 6:5 says, "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." And Genesis 6:11 says, "Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence." The fact that we are seeing both the horrendous rise of immorality and of violence in this world today tells me we are in the days of Noah and Lot prophetically speaking.
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Post by whatif on Oct 30, 2017 20:47:36 GMT -6
I also notice that the day Noah and his family entered the ark (7 days before the flood) was Cheshvan 10. We are today on Cheshvan 10.
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Post by claire on Oct 30, 2017 22:13:05 GMT -6
I am not in the same time zone and usually don't have much time to participate in the forum, so pardon me if I appear to just jump in here and there rather randomly. But I do check out the forum daily to read what is going on.
"As in the days" of Noah and Lot seems to point to the condition of the days then rather than whether they had some kind of warning or not. In Romans, Paul wrote that everybody, including the Jews then, even before the law came, they knew God, and deliberately turned away from him. One of my study bible noted that there could be a deliberate suppression of the knowledge of God, meaning they knew it but they deliberately not pass on the information. The cross reference was to this part in Genesis. If we consider the age of the people in the beginning, we know that Adam was around for a long time, long enough to give first hand information about God to many of his descendants. Likewise his immediate children. Although not first hand information but close enough. Such as Cain, who actually talked to God. By the time of Noah, nobody seemed to know anything about God anymore and the bible goes so far as to say that every of their thought is evil. Do we see similar condition today? Throughout history, every culture answered to some kind of deity and belief in one or more supreme being govern their sense of righteousness and justice. Hence the saying of 'all religions teach people to do good'. If we take a broad view, nowhere else in history do we see humans abandon their accountability to a god/gods . If we take a narrow view of Christianity, apart from the communist regimes, the world at large has been trying all ways and means to do away any mention of God. Even "Merry Christmas" is no longer kosher. The effort is deliberate.
The other similarity I see in terms of the condition of the days is the distortion of the image of God that we are made in. In the days of Noah, there was genetic mingling of some kind going on. Whether was it alien or just fallen angels, I do not know. But the motive is basically to corrupt the human seed and destroy the image we were made in. Again in the days of Lot, the most notable fact is the sexual immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. Of course there was probably other kinds of evil behaviour but in the bible, Sodom and Gomorrah's sin is mainly associated with sexual immorality. Again, I see this particular sin as a distortion of the how we were made. A distortion of the original design that God said was very good. We know that sexual immorality exists throughout history, even homosexuality. But never has it been so championed until now to the extent that it will soon replace 'normal'.
These two, to me, are the uniqueness of the days of Noah and Lot. They may not be common for both but each has its own uniqueness and together they give the full picture.
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Post by whatif on Oct 30, 2017 22:32:28 GMT -6
The other similarity I see in terms of the condition of the days is the distortion of the image of God that we are made in. In the days of Noah, there was genetic mingling of some kind going on. Whether was it alien or just fallen angels, I do not know. But the motive is basically to corrupt the human seed and destroy the image we were made in. Again in the days of Lot, the most notable fact is the sexual immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. Of course there was probably other kinds of evil behaviour but in the bible, Sodom and Gomorrah's sin is mainly associated with sexual immorality. Again, I see this particular sin as a distortion of the how we were made. A distortion of the original design that God said was very good. We know that sexual immorality exists throughout history, even homosexuality. But never has it been so championed until now to the extent that it will soon replace 'normal'. These two, to me, are the uniqueness of the days of Noah and Lot. They may not be common for both but each has its own uniqueness and together they give the full picture. Great point, claire! And I think we could include the rise of transhumanism as part of that distortion of the image of God. |
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Post by mike on Oct 31, 2017 5:52:56 GMT -6
Not sure if anyone has ever watched this channel but I find his compilation of current events helpful in most cases. This first portion of this video speaks to transhumanism. Meanwhile the second portion shows the recent info about the AI robot (forgot her its name already) and the comments made that it wants to take over the world. Now some tinfoil hat time - If you watch the first piece the interview with this thing you can tell some of it is scripted as the guy asking questions has to repeat himself once or twice as it is talking over him. He then admits pieces are scripted. After that there are other clips of this thing. They could all be scripted or not, dunno.
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Post by MikeTaft on Oct 31, 2017 6:34:41 GMT -6
The wickedness of man just in the days of Noah and Lot are so prevalent. Jesus said we would be persecuted for His name sake, even in the courts and public square. Just read this article this morning. There are so many cases where our brothers and sisters are losing their jobs for standing firm in Jesus. The global persecution in "free countries" (btw I don't consider America free anymore), the apostasy, and the coldness of man's heart (violence) is all the evidence we need to know our Lord is coming. www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=1730 |
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Post by kjs on Oct 31, 2017 7:57:18 GMT -6
The other similarity I see in terms of the condition of the days is the distortion of the image of God that we are made in. In the days of Noah, there was genetic mingling of some kind going on. Whether was it alien or just fallen angels, I do not know. But the motive is basically to corrupt the human seed and destroy the image we were made in. Again in the days of Lot, the most notable fact is the sexual immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah. Of course there was probably other kinds of evil behaviour but in the bible, Sodom and Gomorrah's sin is mainly associated with sexual immorality. Again, I see this particular sin as a distortion of the how we were made. A distortion of the original design that God said was very good. We know that sexual immorality exists throughout history, even homosexuality. But never has it been so championed until now to the extent that it will soon replace 'normal'. Will disagree with you here.... Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. Ezekiel 16:49-50. Behold, this was the iniquity of Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, &c. — The inhabitants of Sodom “abused that plenty which God gave them to pride and idleness, which gave rise to those enormities that they afterward were guilty of. Pride; a haughty mind, swelled with the excellency, beauty, and grandeur of their state, and vaunting of it above their neighbors. Fulness of bread, i.e. luxury, and riotous excess in eating and drinking: their plenty was not their sin, but they made it occasion of sin to themselves; they were very intemperate in their diet. Abundance of idleness; every thing so plentiful, that they little regarded to employ themselves, but were idle and slothful, or deeply secure in their peace, plenty, and honor, neither feared God’s wrath or man’s sword; the first was the fault of particular sinners, the latter was the sin and fault of the community. Neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy; she refused to help strangers, as appearance in the history of the angels’ entertainment, nor was she mindful of helping the poor with counsel and defence; they were unmerciful and hard-hearted toward the poor amongst them. This was a great sin to those that abounded in wealth, as the Sodomites did. ========= We are told over and over again, by people like Chuck Missler -- let the Bible interpret itself Well the Bible tells us specifically what the "SIN" is -- PRIDE -- the very sin that is said to be the reason Lucifer fell.... Do we see those "sins" today --- From rock stars -- to even famous Pastors -- who promote the prosperity gospel .... That God wants everyone to be wealthy and healthy..... Yet, the poor get told -- to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.... |
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Post by MikeTaft on Oct 31, 2017 9:49:29 GMT -6
I have to agree with kjs in terms of the root of all sin. For instance the root for the fruit of the Spirit is love (Gal. 5:22-23; 1 Cor. 13:4-8; Eph. 4:2), so for sin the root is pride. Love focuses on others, as pride focuses on the self. |
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Post by palladin56 on Nov 24, 2017 9:34:08 GMT -6
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