Foundations in understanding The Book of Revelation
Mar 9, 2021 12:51:30 GMT -6
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Post by rondonmonson on Mar 9, 2021 12:51:30 GMT -6
Hi Ron rondonmonson ,
Question for you in your understanding. In the earlier post you stated:
This is why the 6th Seal MATCHES the fourth Trump, its because the 6th Seal is a prophetic uttering, not an actual event.
Rev 6:7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, ‘Come and behold!’ 8 and I saw, and lo, a pale horse, and he who is sitting upon him—his name is Death, and Hades doth follow with him, and there was given to them authority to kill, (over the fourth part of the land,) with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and by the beasts of the land.
Rev 8:1 And when he openeth the seventh seal, there came silence in the heaven about half-an-hour, 2 and I saw the seven messengers who before God have stood, and there were given to them seven trumpets, 3 and another messenger did come, and he stood at the altar, having a golden censer, and there was given to him much perfume, that he may give [it] to the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar that [is] before the throne, 4 and go up did the smoke of the perfumes to the prayers of the saints out of the hand of the messenger, before God; 5 and the messenger took the censer, and did fill it out of the fire of the altar, and did cast [it] to the earth, and there came voices, and thunders, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven messengers who are having the seven trumpets did prepare themselves that they may sound; 7 and the first messenger did sound
Can you elaborate on how you see the seals as concurrent with the trumpets (assuming I'm reading your post properly)?
You could kind of say that, but it wouldn't really be the proper overall understanding. What I am saying is that the Seals are Jesus "LOOSING A LOCKED BOOK OF JUDGMENTS" so to speak, one with 7 Seals or locks if you will on it. In olden times a King sealed a letter, if it was really important they would place three wax seals on it so they could tell if anyone had read their letter or not, you could have one seal come loose, and the messenger still couldn't read the contents, only when all three seals were loosed could the content be read. Well of course the numbers 7 and 10 mean COMPLETE via God's numbers and 12 means fulness etc. So, the 7 simply means this is sealed by God and no one else can open it but God, hence in Rev. 5 we see John weeps when no one was found Worthy to open the seal, then we understand the Lamb of God is worthy.
So, Jesus thus opens each Seal, but the Judgments can not be read from the scroll until all 7 seals are opened. Jesus is opening each seal, then he is "PROPHESYING" of what is coming very soon, just like Joel did in Joel 2:31, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal Prophecy is the same prophecy basically as Joel 2:31, except that happened 2500 years ago, this will happen just before the Middle of the 70th week, after the Church has been Raptured. He opens the seals with the Church in Heaven, on hand, thus John is there.
So, no the Seals and Trumps are not really concurrent per se, the Seals are not Judgments, the Trumps are the Judgments, that is why the asteroid hits in Rev. 8, it starts the Day of the Lord. The seals are Jesus in Heaven, taking ONE WAX SEAL (so to speak) off a scroll of Judgments, and then uttering a Prophetic uttering of what is about to befall mankind, he takes off one "Seal" and then speaks about the coming Anti-Christ who is about to go forth Conquering over a coming 42 month period. So, each of the first 5 seals give a variant on the coming 42 month rule of this tyrant ruler known as the Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn. The White Horse equals him conquering for 42 months, but NOT UNTIL the 7th Seal is opened !! The Red Horse is his coming 42 months of Wars, so Jesus opens seal #2 and prophesies thusly. Jesus opens Seal #3 and says Famine is about to hit for 42 months. Jesus opens the 4th Seal and Prophesies this evil Tyrant is about to kill 1/4 of mankind over the next 42 months. Jesus then opens the 5th Seal and tells about the coming 42 months of Martyrs. Until the 7th Seal is opened, there will be NO JUDGMENTS however. This is prophetic utterings in nature, just like all other prophetic utterings, they are about the future, the only difference is this future will happen VERY SOON, as soon as the 7th Seal is opened.
Now, as per the 6th Seal and the 4th Trump overlapping or running concurrent, I wouldn't put it like that anymore than I would say the Joel 2:31 prophecy overlaps with Trumpet #4, because one is a Prophetic uttering of a future event, and the other is the actual future event. In other words Jesus opens the 6th Seal then Prophesies what is mere days away, whilst Joel 2:31 was a prophesy that happened some 2500 years ago. Both POINT to a future event, Jesus' prophetic uttering in Heaven only needs one more seal to be opened before this comes to pass. So, they are not concurrent Judgments, the Seals are not judgments at all, they are prophetic in nature. Nothing can be read from the scroll of Judgments until all 7 Seals are loosed or taken off. Hence the panoramic view of a SEALED SCROLL being opened in Heaven is brilliant in nature. What we missed for years was Jesus is Prophesying the future 42 month rule of an evil tyrant in the first 5 seals. He prophesies God's Coming Wrath in the 6th Seal. AS SUCH BELOW:
Now I will endeavor to link it all together with scriptures for you brother.
Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. 3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Jesus & Joel are prophesying the SAME EVENT, the coming Day of the Lord. Now, where do we see this DOTL in the book of Revelation? After the 7th Seal !!
I see Rev. 7 as the Fleeing Jews who repented, this is why they are between the Seals(Rev. 6) and the actual Trumpet Judgments (Wrath of God in Rev. 8). Notice, an Angel has an order to HURT NOT the Earth, Sea nor Trees until the 144,000 are SEALED (Angels are SEALED also, this means protected by God) in their foreheads. So, what hurts the Earth, Sea and Trees? The Trumpet Judgments burn 1/3 of the trees and all of the grasses, the hurt the earth and sea as we see by reading the judgments. So, the 144,000 is a CODE for ALL Israel, just like the Woman is a CODE for the fleeing Jews. The number 12 represents fulness the number 10 represents completeness, thus the number 12 (FULNESS) x 12 x 10 (COMPLETENESS) x 10 x 10 = 144,000. Notice the New Jerusalem has the same measurement, its simply means the FULNESS or COMPLETENESS thereof, however so many or how large that be. We know that 1/3 of all the Jews REPENT by reading Zechariah 13:8-9. So, there are 9 million Jews living in Israel and 15 million living in all the world, so that 144,000 IMHO, stands for 3-5 million Jews fleeing from Judea unto the Mountains in the Petra/Bozrah area, where we know God protects them for 1260 days. It has become legend, but NOWHERE in the whole bible does it ever say these 144,000 are SUPER PREACHERS, its not there, they are said to need protection from the coming Judgments, thus HURT NOT the Earth, Sea nor Trees UNTIL they are protected or sealed (or make it to the protected zone in the mountain area of Bozrah/Petra).
The Trumpet Judgments and how they match the Joel Day of the Lord Prophesies and Jesus' 6th Seal Prophecy.
Rev. 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.........................5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Notice, the 7th Seal leads to SILENCE and to the Trumpet Judgments. (The scroll can now be opened and read from, the Judgments can be brought forth)
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. 7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Fire always comes in just ahead of an asteroid strike of this size say the Scientists.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
The Asteroid (Mountain) STRIKES the Sea, there is an asteroid heading our way named Apophis (Egyptian god of chaos) so named by NASA in 2004. It will come within 20K miles of the earth on Friday, April 13, 2029, that is 10 TIMES closer than the moon, so anyone that tells you they know it will not hit, but says it will indeed harm our satellites is just talking rubbish. The signs point to us being in the END TIMES as I see them, and since I see a Pre Trib Rapture, this would be why God told us to look to the signs in the skies, we can't know the day nor hour of the Rapture, but we should be able to see the Day of the Lord Gods Wrath (asteroid impact incoming) ahead of time via all the technology we have now, thus by taking 3.5 years off, we can see THE SEASON of the Rapture, but not know the day nor hour. We just need to understand the TIME we are living in (I think we all agree the time is ripe NOW) and we need to look for the Day of the Lord asteroid event Rev. 8 speaks about.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
So, why are we told about this IMPACT TWICE? It is the exact same asteroid that hits, no doubt, its not a Star, the word used here actually means asteroid if I remember correctly. But just like we get Genesis 1 and 2, the creation and the creation of man in general, we have two stories here also. We have the asteroid strike via Trump #2, but in Trump #3 the emphasis is on the Nuclear Fallout, thus it is shown as coming in hot like unto a star, coming in on fire, which we know asteroids this size will always do. Scientists have said if this asteroid named Apophis hits, it would be worse than us gathering all of our Nuclear weapons in the whole world into ONE PILE and then them going off at one time, thus the WORMWORD poisons a 1/3 of all the fresh drinking waters via this fallout.
BUT............why a 1/3 in all the Judgments? How can 1/3 of the fish/sea creatures die and a 1/3 of the trees burn, and a 1/3 of the ships be destroyed? Well, maybe the 1/3 is a HUGE CLUE to where this Asteroid actually strikes more or less !! The Scientists say if Apophis hits the earth, it will hit just off the California Coastline, (in the sea) and thus how big is the Pacific Ocean? Well, it has 1/3 of all the waters on the face of the earth. How big are North and South America combined? They have 1/3 of all the Landmass in the whole world. I personally think the 1/3 is describing where this asteroid will hit. Thus the Anti-Christs job is made all the easier, he understands DARK SENTECES (Satan foresees this) and thus he will wait for this event to happen STRETEGICALLY !! After God wipes out Russia, Turkey and Iran via the Gog and Magog war, and this Asteroid strikes just off the California Sea Shore, this EVIL TYRANT will be licking his chops, knowing its PRIME TIME for him to go forth Conquering on the Day of the Lord. This will cloak his intentions, while the rest of the world are trying to help out the USA and the Americas in general, this evil man will STRIKE by conquering not just Israel but THE MANY named in Dan. 11:40-43, which equals all of the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus becoming the 7th Head of the Beast, the Last Beast, the Anti-Christ tyrant thug.
Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
So, Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal BOTH POINT to this 4th Trump Event (to all the Trumps in reality). This is what Joel 2:31 meant by sun and moon not giving her light, he says the moon will be turned to blood. Jesus says the same thing, the sun will be turned to sackcloth and the moon to blood. They BOTH POINT to this event. What will happen to all the smoke from all of these fires all over the world via the grasses and via 1/3 of all the trees burning? SMOKE WILL ARISE AS NEVER SEEN BEFORE, just think of how dark California gets with their raging wild fires, the impact of the asteroid and its Nuclear blast plus all these fires will blot out the sun and moon by a 1/3 to start with, the fires will cause the moon to appear to be blood red via the hue or glaze these fires will cause while burning via the atmosphere. Thus we get the sun and moon not giving her light and the moon turning blood red, cause by this Asteroid impact and its fires.
SO IN SHORT................... The Seals are not JUDGMENTS, they are Jesus Prophesying about the coming 42 months of God's Judgments and how the Anti-Christ will go forth Conquering, making War, bringing Famine, and murdering for 42 months at the exact same time as God's Wrath starts, because Satan understands the TACTICAL ADVANTAGE he gains from a wounded earth. So he waits for the Day of the Lord IMPACT from this Asteroid, and why wouldn't he? He has no hope, he is desperate, he thinks if he can kill all the Jews it will prove God a liar and thus he wins. LOL, Satan, you will lose. Give it up.
Of course the LAST THREE WOES are the last three Trumps.
Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Thus all of the Judgments come from the 7 Trumps, because the LAST WOE (3rd Woe) is the 7th Trump and thus all 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe as seen in Rev. 16. This is why Rev. 10 points to the SEVEN THUNDERS ending time as we know it. The 7 Thunders are the Judgments that will fall on mankind.