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Post by boraddict on Jan 26, 2022 21:32:49 GMT -6
Previously I explained how all the seals of chapter 6 are in the seven years of tribulation. Additionally, those seven years of tribulation are in the 6th dispensation of time that we are currently in.
Consider that since the wrath of God is in the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12-17), and the wrath of God can not begin until all 144,000 are sealed (Rev. 7:3), then the 144,000 must be sealed in Chapter 6, and prior to the 6th seal.
Also, notice that Rev. 7 is in three sections as follows:
1) Rev. 7:1-8, the 144,000 are sealed prior to the beginning of the wrath of God; before Rev. 6:12.
2) Rev. 7:9-14, following the call from God for the saints to come out of Babylon (Rev. 18:4), the saints come out (Rev. 19:1-10).
3) Rev. 7:15-17, they serve God from this time forward.
It is clear that the saints come out of Babylon after she has fallen (Rev. 18:2, 4).
Therefore, the 144,000 are sealed after Babylon has fallen but before the 6th seal. This logic shows that Babylon falls in the 4 horseman and the 144,000 are sealed in the 5th seal.
Post Script: An additional point of interest is the link between Rev. 18:20 and Rev. 6:10. While both of these verses pertain to avenging, the first is about avenging upon Babylon, and the second is about avenging upon those who dwell upon the earth. So please consider that while Babylon is fallen (Rev. 18:2), she is not destroyed but become a habitation of devils. This is described in Chapter 13 wherein the economic system has fallen from capitalism to communism IMO. The second being much worse than the first. Nevertheless, the first is responsible for murders (Rev. 17:6, 18:24), and the second is also responsible for murders (Rev. 13:7). So while the saints have been avenged with the fall of Babylon (Rev. 19:2), the next but worse economic system that is the mark of the beast (Rev. 13:16-17) must also be destroyed. So while both Verses 18:20 and 6:10 speak to the avenging, the first is about destroying Babylon and the second is about destroying the mark of the beast system.
Basically, the beast destroys Babylon (Rev. 17:16) and sets up the mark of the beast economic system that must also be destroyed (Rev. 19:19-21). Thus, two economic systems are destroyed in the 7 years of tribulation. It is between those two destructions, Babylon at Chapters 17-18 and the beast at Chapter 19, that the saints come out of Babylon (Rev. 18:4). These two destructions are described in Chapter 6 at the 4 horseman (vv. 6:1-8), and the wrath of God (vv. 6:12-17). It means that the saints come out of Babylon in Chapter 6 as I have mentioned before; between these two destructions as is shown in Chapters 17-19. Chapters 17 equates to the four horsemen, Chapter 18 through v. 19:10 equates to the saints coming out and the marriage, and Verses 19:11-21 equates to the wrath of God.
The other chapters, 13-16, provide additional context to the above narrative.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 27, 2022 16:16:25 GMT -6
Lastly with regard to the seals is the 7th at Rev. 8:1. And like the other seals that are in the 6th dispensation of time, it is only right that we look at the 7th as also being in the 6th dispensation. Consider the following:
Rev. 6:1-2, The 1st seal as a type is some event in the first dispensation of time; the first 1,000 years of mankind upon the earth. Secondly, a similar event, as a shadow, will be in the 6th dispensation of time; in the seven years of tribulation. This same condition exists for all the seals.
Rev. 6:3-4, The 2nd seal as a type is some event in the second dispensation of time that is similar to some event as a shadow in the 6th dispensation of time.
Rev. 6:5-6, The 3rd seal as a type is some event in the third dispensation of time that is similar to some event as a shadow in the 6th dispensation of time.
Rev. 6:7-8, The 4nd seal as a type is some event in the fourth dispensation of time that is similar to some event as a shadow in the 6th dispensation of time.
Rev. 6:9-11, The 5th seal as a type is the murder of saints in the fifth dispensation of time that is similar to the murder of saints in the 6th dispensation of time.
Rev. 6:12-17, The 6th seal as a type is the wrath of God at the ending of the sixth dispensation of time that is also the wrath of God as the shadow. Since this 6th seal type and shadow occur in the same period of time that is the tribulation era at the ending of the sixth dispensation of time, then all the previous seals shadows (1-5) also occur in this tribulation era of the sixth dispensation of time.
Rev. 8:1, The 7th seal as a type is the half hour wait in the 7th dispensation of time. This half hour wait may be at the beginning, or the ending of that seventh dispensation. However, the seventh seal shadow that is consistent with the other seals shadows would occur in the sixth dispensation. Thus, the half hour wait as a shadow is the very last type and shadow event in the series, and it is in the sixth dispensation of time and at the tribulation era. The type and shadow of the seventh seal is unique in that the shadow comes first, in the sixth dispensation, whereas the type comes second in the in the seventh dispensation. The following is a chart of this condition:
Seals 1-5 the type precedes the shadow.
Seal 6 the type and shadow occur at the same time.
Seal 7 the shadow precedes the type.
From the information provided in the seals of Chapters 6 and 8 we can reasonably conclude that the trumpets must be events that occur within the tribulation seals. The first four trumpets are in alignment with the four horseman, the fifth trumpet is in alignment with the fifth seal, and the sixth trumpet is in alignment with the sixth seal. Evidence supporting this assessment is in the fifth trumpet where the saints have been sealed sometime prior to or during the fifth trumpet as shown in Rev. 9:4. Since the saints have been sealed prior to or before the fifth trumpet, and, the saints have been sealed prior to the wrath of God in the sixth seal (Rev. 7:3), then the first woe of Chapter 9 must occur prior to Rev. 6:12.
Other evidence is that the 4 angels of Rev. 7:1-3 have been told to wait until after the 144,000 have been sealed. Then at Rev. 9:14 these same four angels are loosed to do their destructive work. Since these angels can not do their work until the saints are sealed, and the saints are sealed prior to Rev. 6:12, then the second woe occurs as the wrath of God in Rev. 6:12-17.
These two evidences support that the four trumpets of Chapter 8 overlay the four seals of Chapter 6. Thus we can see that as the rider of the white horse enters the world events then there is substantial destruction; this may be the covid. This is followed by the rider of the red horse and the casting of the mountain that is a nation into the sea. This is warfare that may be coming as Russia makes it's move on Ukraine. Next is the rider of the black horse where the false prophet burning as a lamp, the false savior, causes false waters of salvation and this would be the mark of the beast era. And lastly in the four horseman and four trumpets is where the Christians are driven from the earth as noted as the sun (Christ) being smitten.
1) From this then the four trumpets (Ch. 8) occur at the four horseman (Ch. 6),
2) the first woe (Ch. 9) occurs at the fifth seal (Ch. 6
3) and the second woe (Ch. 9) occurs at the sixth seal (Ch. 6).
4) Lastly, the half hour wait (Ch. 8) that occurs at the ending of the sixth dispensation of time is prior to the seventh trumpet that ends mankind's existence upon the earth; the third woe.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 28, 2022 21:27:11 GMT -6
I have been watching for a pre-tribulation rapture in The Book of Revelation and I simply do not think that it is there. There is however ample evidence to support that after Babylon falls then the saints are gathered; and the best examples of this is Rev. 18:2, 4 as well as Rev. 19:2, 9.
I am of the opinion now that a leading verse in the tribulation era is Rev. 8:7, and so here is an analysis of that verse.
"The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood,
and these were thrown upon the earth.
And a third of the earth was burned up,
and a third of the trees were burned up,
and all green grass was burned up."
To me this verse is speaking about warfare. Please notice that the central theme of the verse pertains to a third of the earth being burned up. And, as metaphors go, being burned up pertains to the beast making his move as is also stated in Rev. 17:16. Thus, we are speaking about the capitalist economic system taking a major hit and this happened with the covid.
Trees represent the leaders of the world and so this verse is also saying that the wealthy and esteemed are affected when 1) the hail, and 2) fire, and 3) mixed with blood; was thrown upon the earth. Not that these three things are really thrown upon the earth, but metaphorically speaking they are forced upon the earth. And we know that hail is a big marker for the wrath of God, so in this verse we are seeing some event wherein God is performing a destructive action.
Lastly, all the green grass was burned up and this metaphorically says that the common people are burned by this action. And of course we all are affected by the covid.
I do not know if this analysis is correct but it is a viable interpretation of the verse. Since I have in my previous conclusions arrived at the point that Rev. 6:1-2 are overlaid with Rev. 8:7, then the 1st seal as well as the 1st trumpet has already taken place and we are in the mix of it right now. The question then becomes "How long does the 1st seal or the 1st trumpet last?" I suppose it lasts until the shooting war begins that seems to be right around the corner.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 29, 2022 12:54:50 GMT -6
Rev. 8:8
This is the verse that is coming up next in our timeline IMO; and, this verse overlays Rev. 6:3-4 IMO.
We all know that both China and Russia want their piece of the pie which is Taiwan and Ukraine respectively. Yet, that troublesome USA stands in their way. Stands in anyone's and everyone's way who wants to dominate over free nations. Not that the USA is perfect by any means, but the intentions are good: that nations and people should be free to decide for themselves how they want to live their lives.
Here is Verse 8:8 in chiasmus form:
"The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain,
burning with fire, was thrown into the sea,
and a third of the sea became blood."
As metaphors go, mountain means kingdom or nation; thus, the verse is saying that a nation is burned with fire. And of course fire is metaphor for destruction that here in the BofR is associated with the beast at Rev. 17:16. Secondly, this nation is thrown into the sea and this like Rev. 18:21 that references complete destruction; to be thrown back into the sea of mankind. Lastly, a third of the sea became blood and this is the blood reference again that was in the previous verse Rev. 8:7 wherein many people died. So we can say that verses that reference blood are verses that are stating that people die.
Thus, the verse is saying that a great nation is destroyed by the beast. And who is that great nation that stands in the beasts way?
Like I said, it is my opinion that Rev. 8:8 overlays Rev. 6:3-4 and so we have peace being taken from the earth with the fall of this great nation. IMO. So don't get scared but do get close to the Savior, Lord Jesus.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 30, 2022 20:15:10 GMT -6
The number 4 is everywhere in the Book of Revelation, but no example is more notorious than the 4 horseman. These are so mysterious and complex that no one that I know actually understands them. But if we consider them through a simple thing like the fall of Babylon then they are easier to understand. That they are just a huge description of the beginning of the tribulation era. We can see this if we blend the 4 trumpets over the 4 horseman and not get entrenched in a complex application of the verses. Just float things together like a Bob Ross painting and see the landscape.
Understanding Rev. 8:10-11
So let's say that the second trumpet pertained to the fall of a great nation as I explained in my previous post. And that I overlooked Rev. 8:9 in that analysis which goes as follows:
vv. 8:9, "A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed." From this it is perhaps easy to see that Chapter 18 comes into play; that fallen Babylon is becoming inhabited by devils (Rev. 18:2), causing many do die; the living saints (Rev. 18:2) that is. And along with the destruction of saints is the destruction of commerce (v. 18:17). That is, the living here upon the earth are the saints of God. All others are already spiritually dead. So, of the ones in the sea of mankind, the living creatures, like the 4 creatures of Chapters 4 and 5, are alive in Christ. Thus, the living creatures in Verse 8:9 are the saints of God here upon the earth. However, since these saints are still here, then they have not been sealed (Rev. 7:4-8) in or before Rev. 8:8-9 nor the trumpets counter part in the seals, Rev. 6:3-4.
Next is Verses 8:10-11 as follows:
"The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter."
Here we see that the destruction in the first two trumpets, as well as the third and fourth, was caused by this great star that fell from heaven. There is a lot going on in these verses and I do not want to get bogged down in detail, but the star in this verse is again referenced in Rev. 9:1. So, this devil fell on the armies (rivers) and springs of water (children). That is, this demon is ruthless and destroys armies and children. And, the children became followers of this devil (Rev. 13:8). And, many people died at the hand of the followers of this beast. The beast of Chapters 13 and 17.
So let's consider wormwood that causes so many to follow, and to me it is nuclear warfare as referenced in Rev. 13:13. Who would not follow after seeing a few cities getting nuked. Thus, this beast's claim to fame is the use of nuclear weapons.
Don't get scared but do get close to Lord Jesus.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 31, 2022 20:33:26 GMT -6
I suppose the dust from a few dozen nuclear explosions would block out some sunlight. And as Rev. 8:12 shows, one third of the suns light as well as the light from the moon and stars was darkened. This I propose is due to the nuclear works of the beast as I explained in my previous post.
Another interesting thing is that Rev. 8:13 tells us that three woes remain. It does not say that previously there were 4 woes; but implies that some number of woes took place in the previous 4 trumpets. So although there was perhaps a couple of things involved in bringing Babylon down, the overall jest of the four trumpets is the downfall of Babylon. IMO, one woe.
We see Russia making her move into Cuba and Venezuela as well as other sights throughout the world. So if they make a move on Ukraine then the conflict is not restricted to Eastern Europe. Personally I do not see anything taking place in the short term due to the Edras Eagle Prophecy that seems to say one president remains after Biden. That would be Harris and then Russia makes it's move. IMO
One news report stated that the overall time involved for nuclear strikes from Cuba was 5 minutes. But I watched in a visionary dream that I had many years ago and the strikes came from submarines. I stood on the vessel as it had arisen from the deep and I watched the explosions over the costal cities.
But we have heard these types of stories for years. So take it all in stride. I think we have a few years to go, but the ground work is being laid out before us. Do not worry but stay close to Lord Jesus whom we love.
Post Script: The following is the four trumpets in conjunction with the four horseman.
1) Rev. 6:2, the rider of the white horse went forth to conquer; Rev. 8:7, hail and fire mingled with blood was cast upon the earth
2) Rev.6:4, the rider of the red horse took peace from the earth; Rev. 8:8-9, a great nation (mountain) burning with fire was cast into the sea
3) Rev. 6:5-6, the rider of the black horse had balances in his hands; Rev. 8:8:10-11, the great nuclear (star Wormwood) fell upon the earth
4) Rev. 6:8, the rider of the pale horse was death and hell followed; Rev. 8:12, and the sun, moon, and stars were darkened
The above verses pertain to the fall of Babylon IMO that is taking place right now. We are awaiting the fall of the great nation, so we are at Verses 6:2/8:7 and will soon be at Verses 6:4/8:8-9. In my opinion that is often wrong.
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Post by boraddict on Feb 1, 2022 18:14:45 GMT -6
The riddle of Rev. 17:8, "The beast that you saw"
The beast that John saw in Rev. 17:3,
Rev. 17:8, "was, and is not,"
Babylon can not be upon a beast that "is not." Thus two possibilities exist as follows:
1) Babylon was upon the beast that was, and, Babylon is not upon the beast that is not.
or
2) Babylon was not upon the beast that was, and, Babylon is not upon the beast that is not.
Rev. 17:8, "and is about to rise from the bottomless pit"
This links to Rev. 9:1-2, and the beast that was and is not is the beast that rises from the bottomless pit. This shows that Rev. 17:3 is in the chronology prior to the first woe of Chapter 9.
The remainder of the riddle ties verse 17:3 to:
"and go to destruction." Rev. 19:20-21, 20:1-3
as well as
"And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come." Rev. 13:8.
This logic seems to indicate that Rev. 13:1 and Rev. 17:3 are harmonious with regard to the beast. That the beast in Rev. 13:1, like Rev. 17:3, is also in a condition of "not" as shown in item 1 above. That John saw the beast arise (Rev. 13:1) and then the beast was wounded (Rev. 13:3), and John saw that the beast of Rev. 17:3 "was not" alive (Rev. 17:8); But was wounded to death (Rev. 13:3).
Since this beast (Rev. 13:1, 17:3) is not (Rev. 13:3, 17:8), and yet is the 8th (Rev. 17:11), then the order is simply that he is the 8th before he is not; and "yet is" as supported by the second beast (Rev. 13:11-18).
Post Script: Because Babylon is upon the beast at Rev. 17:3, and the beast must exist in order for Babylon to be upon the beast, then the beast must exist in that verse. Thus, the verse pertains to the beast before the beast falls. And, Rev. 17:11 tells us that the beast is the 8th. The third point of interest is that the 8th beast reaches a point of not existing as stated in Rev. 17:8. Thus item number 1 above applies and when the beast no longer exists then the second beast of Chapter 13 takes over.
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Post by boraddict on Feb 3, 2022 23:02:08 GMT -6
I was talking to a friend today and was asked if I prayed before I worked in the BofR. My answer was no; however, if I am working on something that becomes a real problem then I ask for help from the Father in a prayer. The example that I gave was that Dan was missing in the list of twelve tribes (Rev. 7:4-8) and I was having trouble understanding why. So I asked the Father in prayer to help me understand why Dan was missing. Afterwards I discovered that Dan like Levi was replaced by Manasseh. However, in Levi's case the tribe became priests for the other twelve tribes; and, in Dan's case the tribe will be dispersed among the twelve tribes as judges.
Then I sat down and considered the BofR and recalled that the evidence for my conclusion about Dan is at the beginning of Chapter 20. I had not made this connection before. So I opened my Bible to Chapter 20 and there it was in Rev. 20:4. This verse was a challenge to me a few years ago when I placed it in chiasmus form because it was not the typical ABBA or ABCBA. No, it was like Rev. 19:19 and another verse that is in Chapters 4 or 5. I can't remember where that other verse is. But Verse 20:4 was a real monster for me to crack at the that time, and so please consider this verse as follows:
1) "Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.
2) Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,
3) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
4) They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
Please notice that item number 1 goes with item number 3, and secondly, item number 2 goes with item number 4. Whereas, in the traditional chiasmus form we would connect item numbers 1 and 4 together, and secondly item numbers 2 and 3 together.
Additional support showing that items 1 and 3 parallel in the chiasmus is that 3 links to Rev. 15:2 wherein the saints are yet alive in mortality. The reason these are alive in mortality is that Verse 15:2 links to Rev. 14:2 via the harps that is metaphor for saints. Thus, in both verses (vv. 15:2, 14:2) the 144,000 are with the saints of God standing upon Mt. Zion (Rev. 14:1). This is the marriage as noted in Rev. 19:5-9 and these attendees are alive in mortality.
From this analysis of Verse 20:4 then there are two groups of people; one being alive in mortality, and the other having died a mortal death. Thus the following is true in reading the verse in chiasmus form:
1) alive in mortality
2) died the mortal death
3) alive in mortality
4) died the mortal death
Since Judges in mortality do not judge those who have died then the following is correct:
1) Judges that judge
2) saints to be resurrected
3) saints in mortality to be presided over by judges
4) saints resurrected
In other words, the order of government while Lord Jesus reigns upon the earth is that the people will have judges, and since the birthright of Dan is that of judges then Dan is dispersed in Rev. 7:4-8 as Levi was in the OT. I will find that birthright proof in the OT. So the simplest way to think of Rev. 20:4 is as two parts as follows:
1) "Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. 2) Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,
3) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. 4) They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
Thus, the chiasmus for Verse 20:4 is:
1) "Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.
2) Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,
4) They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
3) and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
Please notice that two groups of people will be living upon the earth during the reign of the Savior; those living in mortality, and those that are resurrected. All the above is my personal opinion and analysis.
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Post by boraddict on Feb 5, 2022 20:23:34 GMT -6
There are some things in the BofR that are difficult to explain such as Chapter 12; in chiasmus form as follows:
Rev. 12:1-4, the woman and the dragon
Rev. 12:5-6, the man child and the wilderness
Rev. 12:7-8, the war
Rev. 12:9, the dragon is cast out
Rev. 12:10, the power of Christ
Rev. 12:11, the blood of the Lamb
Rev. 12:12, rejoice
Rev. 12:13-14, the man child and the wilderness
Rev. 12:15-16, the earth helped the woman and the dragon was wroth
Please notice that the center of the chapter is the reference to Christ in Verse 10. It should also be noted that in the Verse 9/11 parallel, the dragon is cast out via the blood of the Lamb. This information tells us that we are "in time" two thousand years ago. Basically, the atonement of Lord Jesus is the defining moment of victory. This also seems to suggest that the first half of the chapter pertains to the early church and the second half of the chapter pertains to us here in the last days. It may be that chapter 12 presents a simile.
Thus, the war continues and we will experience the events of Chapter 12 that pertain to us here in the next few years. We see the war coming where the dragon wants to take Taiwan; and her sister Russia wants to take Ukraine. As a side note, both of these nations are represented by the bear as a national symbol.
Notice that the war takes place and the saints are helped by the earth. This suggests that it is an exodus.
Post Script: In the metaphorical language, bodies of water represent people: rivers = armies. IMO
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Post by boraddict on Feb 7, 2022 20:50:02 GMT -6
Today I have been thinking about Rev. 14:4. This verse is about the 144,000 that have been redeemed from the earth (Rev. 14:4, 7:14). Not only are these 144,000 going to come out of great tribulation, but others as well as noted in Rev. 18:4. Thus, the Lord's people come out of fallen Babylon, and in Rev. 14:2 these are called the harps; wherein the harpers that are the 144,000 are with the harps that are the saints of God.
The sister verse that shows the harps is Rev. 15:2, and it is here that they have gotten 1) victory over the beast, 2) over his image, 3) over his mark, and 4) over his name. Side note: this is another list of four here in the BofR.
These saints as noted in the above verses have gone through an extremely difficult time; but they are here with the Savior as also noted in Rev. 19:1-10.
But today I was thinking about how the 144,000 are all men as noted in Rev. 14:4. So please consider this verse in chiasmus form as follows:
v. 14:4
3) "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.
2) It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
1) These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,"
1) So if you consider a harvest, the firstfruits are those that are harvested first. The verse is not specifically saying that only these 144,000 are firstfruits. Because, as I have pointed out, there are many besides the 144,000 that are called to the marriage of the Lamb.
2) However, as warfare is noted in Rev. 19:19, these are his army and they follow the Savior into battle. That is, when the Savior goes into battle, these who follow the Savior wherever he goes also go into battle (Rev. 19:11-21). This is the center and emphasis of Rev. 14:4.
I have been working the verse backwards with 1) "the firstfruits", and then 2) "follow the Lamb" center portion of the verse, and now the most difficult part, the beginning of the verse.
3) Please notice that these 144,000 are not defiled with women. That is, they are not married, so it seems. I mean, since the second and third portions of the verse are literal, then it stands to reason that the first part of the verse is also literal. And, since these are virgins, and not defiled with women, then they are not married. I have a lot of problems with this interpretation such as the metaphorical application of "virgins" in this verse linking to Matt. 25:1-13. And, if this is metaphorical, then the other two parts of the verse might be metaphorical as well.
All the above is my personal opinion.
Post Script: Rev. 14:4 links to Rev. 17:14 which tells us that the 144,000 are called, chosen, and faithful. This verse also indicates that they are lords and kings and this links back to Rev. 5:10 and Rev. 1:5-6. The jest of it all seems to be saying that the 144,000 are appointed by the Savior to not only bring order to the earth (Rev. 19:11-21) prior to it's conversion (Rev. 21:1) but afterwards as well (Rev. 7:15, 21:24). Also, I have maintained for some time now that the kings of the earth in the BofR are the 144,000 and Verse 21:24 provides some support to this position.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 7, 2022 19:21:01 GMT -6
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