|
|
Post by venge on Oct 9, 2019 3:18:01 GMT -6
kjs Yes sir, my friend. I'm with you.!! I agree that these will be the minority. Not sure who said it, but i think that they [the letters will be particularly helpful for those who have Christian friends, who have shared their faith, but these people have hard hearts. When the borsch hits the fan, and the world is coming off the rails, and their friend is gone, i think those people will think again and again. "Yeah, Jim, or Susan was a religious nut, and he told me all about this Bible end-times gobbledygook, but Jim and my co-worker Betty who was quiet, but was very active in Church, - they're both gone. " I also agree 110% that we'll be out of here. Where does it say in the Bible we go missing? We change and are forever with the Lord. He is on earth to reign and so we are promised to reign with him. Please show me a literal removal off earth. I’m not familiar with any scripture. I only have seen that in the movies. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Oct 9, 2019 8:06:24 GMT -6
"Where does it say in the Bible we go missing?
We change and are forever with the Lord. He is on earth to reign and so we are promised to reign with him.
Please show me a literal removal off earth. I’m not familiar with any scripture. I only have seen that in the movies."
So... this thread is about "left behind" letters and whether they are helpful, not a debate about the rapture itself. For that reason I suggest you create a new thread, or we can move your post to a new thread if you would like. And we can discuss your question "Where does it say in the Bible we go missing?"
As for "show me a literal removal off earth," 1 Thess. 4:17 describes a literal removal of the Church off earth:
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Oct 28, 2019 10:41:23 GMT -6
"Where does it say in the Bible we go missing? We change and are forever with the Lord. He is on earth to reign and so we are promised to reign with him. Please show me a literal removal off earth. I’m not familiar with any scripture. I only have seen that in the movies." So... this thread is about "left behind" letters and whether they are helpful, not a debate about the rapture itself. For that reason I suggest you create a new thread, or we can move your post to a new thread if you would like. And we can discuss your question "Where does it say in the Bible we go missing?" As for "show me a literal removal off earth," 1 Thess. 4:17 describes a literal removal of the Church off earth: "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Thank you. I am taking a break from posting but will reply to this. The clouds in the air is on earth. That is, we are not missing nor is it a literal removal off earth. Is not the clouds and air on earth? Does - off the earth have air? Of course not. So we are not removed off the earth, but we meet him and are with him. So there remains no scripture that says we are removed from the earth. I didn’t want to derail your post Gary but with all your high 5’s (likes), I felt I needed to reply since liking something that no one has scripturally shown me should be studied more or not used. The disagreement is we never leave earth. The scripture you posted doesn’t say or suggest we do. Instead, it shows we are still on earth and are with him on earth. |
|
|
|
Post by raindrop on Oct 28, 2019 11:13:23 GMT -6
kjs, disciple4life, venge, Gary, I believe the definitive rapture verse is Revelation 7:9 where a huge multitude of people suddenly appear in heaven after a massive earthquake. The crowd is so huge that no man could possibly count them all. They are from earth - from every nation, tribe, people and language. I believe this pretty much cements the fact that we will leave earth! Whether we stay there in heaven or not remains to be seen. We follow LORD Jesus wherever he goes. For those who think these people are tribulation saints...why should they get to leave earth and we don't? Scripture is very clear! www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+7&version=NIV
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Oct 28, 2019 12:07:55 GMT -6
kjs, disciple4life, venge, Gary, I believe the definitive rapture verse is Revelation 7:9 where a huge multitude of people suddenly appear in heaven after a massive earthquake. The crowd is so huge that no man could possibly count them all. They are from earth - from every nation, tribe, people and language. I believe this pretty much cements the fact that we will leave earth! Whether we stay there in heaven or not remains to be seen. We follow LORD Jesus wherever he goes. For those who think these people are tribulation saints...why should they get to leave earth and we don't? Scripture is very clear! www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+7&version=NIV Raindrop, I didn’t say we will never leave earth. Idk. But that verse posted above does not say we will leave earth. In regards to Rev 7, those are spirits not yet glorified. They eventually receive white robes. They may be those that rise at that time. But I’m still looking for scriptural support but this is Not to debunk anyone here. We all have been taught things in the church. The issue is things from God or doctrine of man. These aren’t things that effect our personal walk with God. But I think about them because if I’m to believe it, I need to see that God said it. Not that we as believers think it because we were told. That’s not good enough for me. |
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Oct 28, 2019 12:44:44 GMT -6
venge , funny, I was meditating on the Gospel accounts of seeing Jesus after He had risen from the dead. It led me to 1Thes 4:17 and I did a word check in the greek on the use of the words 'in the air.' (done it before many times, but did it again to see if there is more to it) I know this is a thread somewhere else, but it confirms for me that we are changed right where we are at, in the air that we breathe. We are changed in a twinkling. So many books have been published showing us launching into space, or disappearing into the Heavens, hiding out in rooms. But Jesus in His glorified state could come and go and some recognized Him and some didn't until they broke bread, or until He had ministered them the Truth, then they were "unblinded" to Him and saw Him directly, holes in hands and everything. I believe those who remain will also be changed (glorified) the same way. It surely is a mystery. We will be clothed in Light (immortal) and not be like the first Adam who was given Flesh to cover his body, mortalized (now in the state of shame). Flesh and Blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God. This is why we must be changed, put on immortality. In re to the "earth" raindrop , John is seeing a spiritual representation of events, and to me the term "earth" is not necessarily literal planet earth. Earth to me are those religiously slanted, or have knowledge of God or desire for gods (higher power), as compared with the Sea, which is another group of people all together, not spiritually aware or desiring God. Not to derail this thread, but just saying this to respond to your comment of the what is the earth in the BoR..
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 13:01:19 GMT -6
Gary - perhaps time to alter our rules or the wording "literal rapture to heaven". Like you I believe 1John 3:2 means we will have bodies a lot like or identical to Him. We will be changed to be able to be in the heavenly realm and forever be with Him... But did the Bible actually tell us we will vanish? I don't believe it does
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Oct 28, 2019 13:04:35 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that?
|
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Oct 28, 2019 13:45:13 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that? I'll answer it! "...that where I am, ye may be also." And where is He? Heaven. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 13:47:18 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that? Could it be our resurrection body? When I think about 'preparing', I think God spoke everything to existence in an instant. SO even though Jesus was a carpenters son, He isnt swinging hammers to make our 'mansions'. Our place is our body and it is in the heavens. Just as the angels are in the heavens, we will be also (Matt 22:30) |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 13:48:34 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that? I'll answer it! "...that where I am, ye may be also." And where is He? Heaven. But Fitz, in a pre-trib view you would be correct that He is outta sight, but in another possible view He would be in full sight of everyone with His people with Him, returning to earth. |
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Oct 28, 2019 13:59:14 GMT -6
"Where does it say in the Bible we go missing? We change and are forever with the Lord. He is on earth to reign and so we are promised to reign with him. Please show me a literal removal off earth. I’m not familiar with any scripture. I only have seen that in the movies." So... this thread is about "left behind" letters and whether they are helpful, not a debate about the rapture itself. For that reason I suggest you create a new thread, or we can move your post to a new thread if you would like. And we can discuss your question "Where does it say in the Bible we go missing?" As for "show me a literal removal off earth," 1 Thess. 4:17 describes a literal removal of the Church off earth: "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Thank you. I am taking a break from posting but will reply to this. The clouds in the air is on earth. That is, we are not missing nor is it a literal removal off earth. Is not the clouds and air on earth? Does - off the earth have air? Of course not. So we are not removed off the earth, but we meet him and are with him. So there remains no scripture that says we are removed from the earth. I didn’t want to derail your post Gary but with all your high 5’s (likes), I felt I needed to reply since liking something that no one has scripturally shown me should be studied more or not used. The disagreement is we never leave earth. The scripture you posted doesn’t say or suggest we do. Instead, it shows we are still on earth and are with him on earth. Come on venge , we do need to use a bit of thought process.....
Yes, 1 Thess. 4:17 says we will meet Jesus in the "AIR" -- and technically that is not on "Planet Earth" -- yet I concede that the Earth Atmosphere could possibly be interpreted as still being on Earth.
BUT we are also told in 1 Corinthians 15:51 that we WILL BE CHANGED -- (in other words our BODIES will not be the same) -- which actually makes sense since while God could raise our current physical bodies to meet Him in the Air ... I suspect it will be our "changed bodies" doing the meeting.... I really doubt our changed bodies would be recognizable to anyone left on earth .... (assuming if the "left behind ones" could even see the changed bodies.)
So you seem to be splitting hairs for no apparent reason -- they fact is the passage quoted to you says we meet Jesus in the AIR --- not down the street at such and such location.
As Gary pointed out -- this is way off topic -- so further discussion needs to be moved.
BUT Yes, Changed Bodies -- will be "different bodies" so while I guess it is possible our flesh bodies could simply fall down as "dead" -- I suspect the end result will be to "Vanish" from the left behinds perception.
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Oct 28, 2019 15:00:04 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that? I'll answer it! "...that where I am, ye may be also." And where is He? Heaven. Maybe like..."Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God....(Rev 21:9b-10) And if the Bride is in the New Jerusalem coming from heaven, how did we get there? |
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Oct 28, 2019 17:00:28 GMT -6
Don't we go to the place He is preparing for us? Where is that? Could it be our resurrection body? When I think about 'preparing', I think God spoke everything to existence in an instant. SO even though Jesus was a carpenters son, He isnt swinging hammers to make our 'mansions'. Our place is our body and it is in the heavens. Just as the angels are in the heavens, we will be also (Matt 22:30) I get what you are saying, but He told His disciples that He was going somewhere (physically) to prepare a place for them, and would come again (physically) to take them there (I would also say physically).
Hebrews 11:10 says that Abraham was looking to a city that was built by God.
The New Jerusalem is a physical place that will come from the heavens. A city built by God. When the city got built, I have no idea. We know by reading Genesis, that God rested from everything He made concerning the earth, but when did His heavenly temple get built? (I think before time began, just because I think He created angels before the earth. I'm not sure I can prove that from Scripture; I've never tried.) Was the New Jerusalem built at the same time? Was it built during creation week? Genesis doesn't say anything about the heavenly realm (to my knowledge anyway). Was it built later? I don't know.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 18:23:25 GMT -6
Does the Bible tell us that we have to go to the "Father's House" immediately following our catching-up? <<Serious question<<
Is it possible after the 1000 yr. reign of Christ the New Jerusalem is created? Is there any reason it can't be? (The beginning of the 8th millennium = all things new?)
I think angels were created first Job 38:4-7
|
|
