The Opisthograph Scroll

I should be able to listen today.

Ok, I am going to ramble a bit as I am thinking out loud and working through stuff. I think a case can be made for some of the seals to have already been opened and a case for them to all be opened after the rapture. I know that we have threads around that discuss that. I guess my question is - What is the scroll? I have heard several different opinions. This pastor makes a good case for it being something like a will that would have been enacted after the death of Jesus. In that case, He would have started opening the seals soon after His ascension. The will going along with the New Covenant that was made (if I understand correctly). So, that would mean that the vision would include John seeing the past (I think RT has explained it that way.) and at some point it switches to the future.

I had always thought that everything after John's calling up is in the future because he is shown it after the letters to the churches "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." After the church age. I know that Revelation twists around and I think Part 2 may help unwind it. I'm interested in hearing his thoughts on it at least.

Right now, I think that either explanation is possible, because I believe that the worship going on there has been taking place since God created the 4 creatures and the 24 elders. So, John could have gone back in time. And it doesn't matter to me if the rapture is before the first seal or between 5 and 6. And I don't really care if the four horsemen are Islamic related events or events after Anti-Christ comes to power. I've got both noted down as options as I can see evidence for both.

I know all of this has been discussed in other threads, so it's not really what I want to discuss, I am just trying to work it all out. What I am wondering is - if it is not like a will, then what other type of document might it be? I know some have said it's the deed to the earth. Would a deed be written on the front and back and sealed? A deed that could be opened after the Rapture as Christ takes back what is rightfully His? He is the only One who is worthy to the deed of the earth. Is there another possibility?

I've been a bit discouraged and unmotivated lately, so this has brought me out of that a bit. I've been pondering it most of the day.

I cant help wonder if the constellations mentioned in the Bible were to be viewed with an understanding of what they represent rather then the actual star. 

Bare with me:
In regards to Orion the Hunter, a few sites mention:

The significance is this, Orion guards against Scorpions.  In the Bible, scorpions and serpents are figuratively defined as wicked men.  And God's word shows that those in his faith will tread on scorpions and serpents. Is it a motif representing such a case?

Whereas the 7 sisters (Pleides) representing the 7 angels of the 7 churches?


Seek God who made the 7 angels of the 7 churches and God who made us to fight against wicked men? The shadow of death is nightly and darkness but he can make it in morning or daylight...ie. though daylight, there is much spiritual darkness as if it were night. 

Or Isaiah 13:10

For if the stars of heaven such as Pleides or Orion don't shine, there is no defense against wicked men (scorpions) and what of the light of the churches? Where the clause that follows shows even bright light of the sun shall be darkened. If all light is darkened and hidden, how great will be spiritual darkness and how lessened will be our light?

And what if he does place it under a bed and the light doesn't shine in darkness for all to see? Is not all dark even in daylight?

And so I truly wonder, whereas I hadn't thought of this previously, if there is biblical meaning behind these so loosely as I have pointed out with exception of the 7 sisters Natalie spoke of.  Not placement in the sky versus the ground but what each thing represents and why. Not worship, which would make sense as God commanded us not to worship the heavens but also the earthly. And earthly can be heavenly when lifting itself up in pride.  The Greeks had mythology about the stars but I cant wonder if David, Job and Isaiah had their own spiritual application to it.  

Corrupted Natalie...I strongly believe that. If we rewind to Adam and the children, Grand children, great grandchildren we see wickedness as well as dispersion growing. Cain had knowledge of God and His ways, but his heart was not right with God. He was jealous of Abel and murdered him.

So one generation to the next, as the children spread without a fear, knowledge and understanding of the Lord these stories of the heavens and other "fables" spread. Much like the telephone game of today. False God's inserted into the true story of the Mazzeroth in the skies. (Hope it makes sense to you like it does me)

That's great Natalie! I hate trying to communicate through this medium all the time. I'm really not a great communicator to begin with. yardstick, check out this video I think you'd like it too

barbiosheepgirl

I think so barbiosheepgirl.  I think looking at the heavenly objects is not the only thing that was meant by God.  I think there was physical literal worship of the planets and then there was worship of individuals that lifted themselves up in pride so far as to be in the heavens.  And this pride of man, dwelling among the stars - caused them to be worship, a form of heavenly worship. 
I know many here follow the Rev 12 sign and I was not going there nor going to apply it to what I said.  But I think the heavenly objects were used to describe his Glory with his message implanted in it. If there is a famine of the word, in the land, we can look to the heavenly constellations to declare his glory.  Not that he just made them and created them but they tell of light vs darkness.  They tell us his story.  There seems to be, the more I look into it, a message and that same message is what we find in the Bible. Perhaps it was always there or the Israelites took what they knew of the gentiles around them and used it to their own advantage describing what God wants.  I don't know.  But the imagery is definitely interesting when applying the constellations with scripture and understanding the imagery behind it.

Look at Job 38:31

What would the 7 stars of the Pleiades have that are directed as sweet influences? But if the 7 sisters are the 7 angels of the 7 churches, we know what sweet influence's they have!  
God speaks of loosing the bands of Orion as if Orion was restrained. If Orion fights the scorpion, what is restraining him and if he is no longer restrained, will he defeat all the scorpions and bring peace?


For stars do not fight unless it is meant by angels but angels are not shown to fight sisera...and followers of Christ are described as the sons of God and we are promised the morning star.

And I wonder, still, at all of this....