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Post by Natalie on Aug 20, 2019 16:39:43 GMT -6
I have some thoughts I have been trying to put together about it being a deed. I hope to get them wrapped up and posted soon. Started the kids back up with school this week and that always about wipes me out for the first few days.  |
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Post by bondservant on Aug 21, 2019 7:58:26 GMT -6
This is from Daniel Matson's site. Pleiades matches up with the seven churches. It's also my understanding that Pleiades is on the shoulder of the bull not around his neck. I'm not sure what difference that might make.
There is another version of this graphic out there, but I am unfamiliar with the site it's on. They have labeled the stars with the churches. Philadelphia's star cannot be seen because they are kept from the hour of trial that comes on the whole earth.
These are the images he was looking for. Thank you! |
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Post by bondservant on Aug 21, 2019 8:17:43 GMT -6
Part 2
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 10:09:08 GMT -6
Thanks, bondservant! I look forward to watching it later.
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 10:18:45 GMT -6
I see the possibility of the scroll being either a will or a deed. Maybe someone else knows of another possibility? I do not know which it is, but I think a case can be made for both. Here is what I pulled together for if the scroll is the “title deed”. (I am going to put this in two posts) "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, the world and all those who dwell therein" (Psalm 24:1). Let’s assume that God gives the deed over to Adam when He puts Adam in charge of the earth. Adam disobeys and has lost possession; the deed is given to another. However, in a deed there is a chance to redeem the land within a certain time frame. (This is also shown in the book of Leviticus.) From Chuck Smith: (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Rev/Rev_004.cfm?a=1172001) Under Jewish law whenever you sold property in the deed there was always a redemptive clause. You always had the right to buy the property back within a specified period of time providing you could fulfill the terms and the requirements that were written in the deed.
So wherever there was the sale of property, there was always two deeds that were drawn up. One deed was sealed and it was put away in a safe deposit. The other remained open and was kept by the person who sold the property. And in the time of redemption you would bring both deeds, the one that was open and the one that was sealed. And by the open deed you would prove that you were the one that had the right to redeem it. And in the redeeming of it, you would break the seals of the closed deed and you would fulfill the requirements therein, and thus, the property would revert to you. (See Jeremiah 32 for an example – Chuck Smith also explains the story but I won’t copy and paste it here)
And we see this in Leviticus. (Lev 25:25, 25:47-49) The land was to stay in the family (or at least the clan). The person or a relative could redeem land that had been sold. We don’t know what the deed might say, but we can say that Adam was not able to meet the requirements of the redemptive clause. He would need a kinsman redeemer (like Noami, Boaz, and Ruth). So, God becomes flesh and fulfills the requirement to redeem the land. We are now just waiting for Him to open the sealed deed to show that the land does indeed belong to Him. He has redeemed it, but He has yet to take possession of it.
One thing that I ran across was that in the year of Jubilee the land was to return to its original owner. (Lev 25) But we also know from Scripture that Israel did not practice the Jubilee years. (Lev 26) |
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 10:20:17 GMT -6
(post 2) Some other thoughts from Chuck Smith (I cut out some for the sake of space): In most cases the redemption period that was set was that of seven years, which corresponded also to the time of redemption for a man who was sold into slavery. You could not remain there for more than seven years. Interesting to me that just about six millennia ago, man was sold into slavery to sin and the world was sold over to Satan and he took control and has had control for almost six thousand years. For Adam forfeited the earth just about 4000 years B.C. and we are coming out to the 2000 years AD
. . . And now the scroll in His right hand and the angel proclaiming with this strong loud voice, "Who is worthy to open this scroll, and to loose the seals." And then the notation, "No man was found worthy." What does that mean? No man has the capacity to redeem the world.
. . .And this of course then brings on John's weeping. Why? Because if nobody redeems it, it stays Satan's domain forever. That thought is more than John can bear. It wipes him out. He begins to sob convulsively with a horrible contemplation that the world will forever be under Satan's control and power and the misery will reign on and on through that.
I am not sure where the information comes from that the redemption period is seven years. Maybe I need to do some more looking through things in Leviticus. I am pretty sure that is where it talks about the length of time for slavery. And of course he is speculating why John is weeping, but it makes sense if the scroll is indeed the deed to the earth (and all that is on it). |
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2019 13:29:21 GMT -6
bondservant I hope to be watching the "short time" from the good seats Looking forward to the next session. This is helping me understand that when things were written we must try to understand the time in which they were written, along with the culture - not applying our time and western culture nowadays
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 13:34:20 GMT -6
(Chuck Smith not Chuck Missler ... however, I think both are missed. ) Interesting questions. I am not sure the answers, but there seems to be patterns and answers in Scripture if we can figure them out. One thing that has definitely been reinforced by my time at Unsealed is that the Bible is a multilayer book with lots of interesting stuff in it. |
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 13:37:27 GMT -6
I listened to the second part during lunch ( mike the first about 10 min is review if you are short on time). Two of my kids want to go bowling this afternoon (can I count that as PE?) and I may just have to read in Revelation while they bowl. |
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2019 16:49:22 GMT -6
I think there are several different ways of reading Revelation; I do not know which one is right as most make a lot of sense at the time. But each time there are things that stand out to me. I am enjoying this perspective even if I find things I disagree with. He could be right and I am wrong. I read through the worship chapters this afternoon and will read through the rest as I wait for next week. What stood out for me right now: The marriage and supper are mentioned in 19:7-9. From what I understand, the wording is such that the marriage has already taken place. The beast and false prophet are captured in 19:20 and Satan shortly afterward in 20:1-3. Then thrones of judgment are put in place (to judge Israel? Luke 22:30) and the martyrs during the reign of Anti-Christ are raised. (It mentions them not worshiping the beast or taking his mark.) First thought, the martyrs are not part of the Bride because they are not resurrected until the end and the wedding already took place. Secondly, the raising of the dead and catching up of the living (1 Thes 4:15) must take place before Anti-Christ comes to power because there is this separation of the Bride and the martyrs. |
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Post by bondservant on Sept 3, 2019 6:44:42 GMT -6
(Chuck Smith not Chuck Missler ... however, I think both are missed. ) Interesting questions. I am not sure the answers, but there seems to be patterns and answers in Scripture if we can figure them out. One thing that has definitely been reinforced by my time at Unsealed is that the Bible is a multilayer book with lots of interesting stuff in it. I am not sure how I saw Missler instead of Smith. I totally agree that the entire Bible is multi-layered as historical, prophetical, figurative, allegorical, literal, parabolic and proverbial. |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 3, 2019 8:21:40 GMT -6
thoughts on the 7 year slave period.. you quoted this Natalie , the only thing I have heard of that is a return of slaves to their home is the Jubilee period. After 7 sevens, (49) shall be the Jubilee year (50th), This fiftieth (Jubilee) year is sacred - it is a time of freedom and of celebration when everyone will receive back their original property, and slaves will return home to their families . . . If one of your brothers becomes indigent and has to sell himself to you, don't make him work as a slave. Treat him as a hired hand or a guest among you. He will work for you until the Jubilee . . . (Leviticus 25:10, 39 - 40). so it does involve seven... |
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Post by bondservant on Sept 4, 2019 13:30:35 GMT -6
Pastor Thad Caltagirone Notes:
Hebrews 9:15-18 (KJV) 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means
of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they
which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament [is],
there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] of force after men
are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the
first [testament] was dedicated without blood.
The book of Revelation
Opisthograph Scroll
In Roman times, the time of John the Apostle, there were three types of
scrolls. One written only on the inside: Recto; one written only on the
outside: Verso; and one written within and without: Opisthograph. From Ch. 5
on the book of Revelation takes on the nature of the latter. This is significant
because an Opisthograph usually contains opposable writings on its two sides,
and was sealed when used as a wealthy person's will. Nowhere is this more
evident than in the dual nature of the last book of the Holy Bible, being both a
book of judgement and worship. The following study pulls some main ideas out
of consecutive chapters to show the very evident pattern. This pattern also
establishes the book as an end-times will for the redemption of the Earth that
was the Fathers and became the enemies, back to the son, Jesus Christ- Lord of
Lords, King of the Earth!!
Rev 5.
(KJV) Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the
throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the
tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to
loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having
seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth
into all the earth.
(KJV) Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to
take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast
redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and
people, and nation;
Rev 6.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth
beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was
Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over
the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with
death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 7.
(KJV) Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the
trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,
of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the
throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their
hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth
upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 8&9
(KJV) Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and
fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third
part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
(KJV) Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from
heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(KJV) Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not
find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 10 & 11
(KJV) Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from
heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his
face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
(KJV) Revelation 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and
they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed
in sackcloth.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats,
fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast,
and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
Rev.12&13
(KJV) Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels
fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(KJV) Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast
rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns
ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
(KJV) Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his
number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
Rev.14&15
(KJV) Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the
throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn
that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were
redeemed from the earth.
(KJV) Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image,
and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of
glass, having the harps of God.
Rev.16-17-18
(KJV) Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to
the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God
upon the earth.
17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE
GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the
blood of the martyrs of Jesus:
(KJV) Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,
and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful
bird.
Rev.19-20-21
(KJV) Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much
people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and
power, unto the Lord our God:
(KJV) Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and
judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had
not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his]
mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out
of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
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Post by bondservant on Sept 7, 2019 16:40:14 GMT -6
Part 3
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