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Post by venge on Apr 24, 2019 12:48:11 GMT -6
interesting, I will go back thru it and review. cant atm have to mulch today lol EDIT: Finished mulching for today, still not done but my back is sore lol. I had a chance to look back at the Koine Greek and match it up. Both the same words are used in Dan 9:27 and 12:11 with small differences to the words themselves but not enough to deter the idea. With that in mind, if you are correct, I find it difficult to think if Jerusalem is taken early with 42 mo's. How do the 2 witnesses survive in the open when others don't. I appreciate the comment and now I need to go research a little more. Still would like to understand the 2 1260 days in Rev 12 and how they apply. Venge, This is a great question, and I think is often overlooked. I believe, based upon Revelation 11:3-7 that the two witnesses are 'untouchable' until they have completed their witness. Notice that God himself empowers them (v3). Logically, it follows that God will not allow them to be harmed until verse 7. Thus, I also believe the AC murders them himself. Since he at that time will be possessed by satan, he alone will have the power to approach them for purposes of doing harm. See verse 7: "...the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them..." Everyone else who approaches them to do harm is killed by them. See v5. Lastly, notice what they are permitted to do: "They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want." This sure sounds an awful lot like the trumpet and bowl judgments doesn't it? Yardstick, Though I agree that it does sound like some of the trumpets/bowls, I don't believe they are because the angels blow the Trumpets and pour the Bowls. |
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Post by cwood85 on Apr 24, 2019 21:56:44 GMT -6
vengeYour avatars kill me ;-D 🤣😂🙃 Get yourself some coffee with a couple shots of espresso thrown in their for good measure ☕️ Top it off with some chocolate covered espresso beans and you should be ready to run a marathon. Ok back to the thread topic lol...
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Post by venge on Apr 25, 2019 8:09:58 GMT -6
vengeYour avatars kill me ;-D 🤣😂🙃 Get yourself some coffee with a couple shots of espresso thrown in their for good measure ☕️ Top it off with some chocolate covered espresso beans and you should be ready to run a marathon. Ok back to the thread topic lol... Lol well, my burn is about gone. I should lighten my coloring. My coworker has those coffee beans you chew on but they don’t work on me. I do love espresso though!!! My church has coffee for Sunday school hours. I grab some of that and mix it with hot chocolate mix for sugar caffeine fix.  |
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Post by cwood85 on Apr 25, 2019 8:29:26 GMT -6
venge Your avatars kill me ;-D 🤣😂🙃 Get yourself some coffee with a couple shots of espresso thrown in their for good measure ☕️ Top it off with some chocolate covered espresso beans and you should be ready to run a marathon. Ok back to the thread topic lol... Lol well, my burn is about gone. I should lighten my coloring. My coworker has those coffee beans you chew on but they don’t work on me. I do love espresso though!!! My church has coffee for Sunday school hours. I grab some of that and mix it with hot chocolate mix for sugar caffeine fix. My blood is part coffee lol 🤪😁😅😀☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️ Oh those beans work. You just have to eat enough. Like when you accidentally eat over 20 of them while reading and are just munching along and then are up past 3 in the morning from all the caffeine lol 🤓😜 oops. |
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Post by kjs on Apr 25, 2019 8:31:20 GMT -6
Was tempted to delete the actual Video -- but decided to be content with just deleting it from my reply....
Be very, very careful with Dr. Al Garza ... He and the Hebrew Roots Movement ....
Pretty much wants "ALL CHRISTIANS" to return to the "Law Of Moses".....
In fact -- in my opinion -- this type of Group -- is the CURRENT FORM of the fanatics that Apostle Paul Faced during the Jerusalem Council (around 50AD)....
Mixing Jewish Traditions with a Christian Spin -- pretty much equals a false gospel .....
Dr. Al Garza pretty much makes his living for translating the writings of "The Talmud" .....
For those that do not know "The Talmud" is the Jewish Religious Writings that became popular AFTER the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in 70AD ...
In a nutshell -- when they no longer had a temple to offer sacrifices the Jewish leaders (Rabbis) started building these writings to replace much of the Moses Laws; since most of it could no longer be performed.
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Post by kjs on Apr 25, 2019 12:31:20 GMT -6
CAME Across another site that was covering this Hebrew to English translation (you know it really is FUNNY how long this debate stretches) any rate the person who wrote the following portion actually is from the Amillennialism camp (they basically believe all prophecy has been fulfilled and that Jesus will NOT have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth.) Granted I do not agree with him on that portion -- but I like the way this Hebrew scholar laid out verses 26 and 27.....
After the 62 sevens (434 years), another anointed person comes on the scene. He is cut off (he dies), and he has not (he has no descendants), and the leader who comes (comes in his place) destroys the people (the city and Temple). This is the second way to show 'he' in verse 27 refers to 'the prince who shall come'. Since the anointed/Messiah mentioned in verse 26 is dead by verse 27.
TO ME (and yes, I have repeated multiple times before) -- THE ANOINTED ONE ENDS UP DEAD in verse 26. Another Leader (prince?) shows up in verse 26 at the end -- and destroys city and temple.
The "HE" in verse 27 DOES NOT and cannot refer back to the Dead Guy.....
SO Yes - that produces a problem -- either the Prophet (and Prophecy) ARE COMPLETELY WRONG --- or in other words FALSE.........
Because either there is a PAUSE set up within the Prophecy --- allowing a future event OR it was already fulfilled (like this guy believes - except he squirms around trying to prove Aristobulus is/was the HE in 27) -- however, that makes the Anointed One who dies -- someone other than Christ) OR -- there is a Pause while we wait for the HE to confirm a covenant........
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Post by yardstick on Apr 26, 2019 23:31:47 GMT -6
Venge, This is a great question, and I think is often overlooked. I believe, based upon Revelation 11:3-7 that the two witnesses are 'untouchable' until they have completed their witness. Notice that God himself empowers them (v3). Logically, it follows that God will not allow them to be harmed until verse 7. Thus, I also believe the AC murders them himself. Since he at that time will be possessed by satan, he alone will have the power to approach them for purposes of doing harm. See verse 7: "...the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them..." Everyone else who approaches them to do harm is killed by them. See v5. Lastly, notice what they are permitted to do: "They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want." This sure sounds an awful lot like the trumpet and bowl judgments doesn't it? Yardstick, Though I agree that it does sound like some of the trumpets/bowls, I don't believe they are because the angels blow the Trumpets and pour the Bowls. Note what I bolded up there. The phrase implies many many times, yet we see each trumpet and bowl as a discrete event. This seems to lend itself to two possibilities: 1. It could very well be that the 'command' is given by the two witnesses, but the 'action' is performed by the angels as prophesied by John in the trumpet and bowl judgments. The witnesses' mandate most certainly must conform to the will of God, so the frequency of 'as often as they want' may be clearly limited (not sure if this is the right word) as the trumpet and bowl judgments. To support this, there have been prophecies in the OT which clearly have an earthly 'command', but a heavenly 'execution' without the prophet 'telling God what to do'. I believe it may be that there is an assumption that certain 'quantities' of effect are assumed to be one-to-one. For instance, how many events may occur to turn 1/3 of the seas to blood? The assumption is a single event. What if (based upon the two witnesses 'as often as they want') it occurs in steps or stages? 2. the witnesses exercise of their abilities may be independent of the trumpets and bowls - John was not contemplating the one being dependent upon the other. I think this is what most people consider, yet I am not aware of a supporting scripture to show that there will be much MUCH MORE plague, pestilence, et al, than what the trumpets and bowls describe. Therefore, if this possibility is true, then we cannot assume that the seals, trumpets or bowls are exclusively describing the events of the Tribulation. |
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Post by venge on Apr 27, 2019 9:49:06 GMT -6
Yardstick, Though I agree that it does sound like some of the trumpets/bowls, I don't believe they are because the angels blow the Trumpets and pour the Bowls. Note what I bolded up there. The phrase implies many many times, yet we see each trumpet and bowl as a discrete event. This seems to lend itself to two possibilities: 1. It could very well be that the 'command' is given by the two witnesses, but the 'action' is performed by the angels as prophesied by John in the trumpet and bowl judgments. The witnesses' mandate most certainly must conform to the will of God, so the frequency of 'as often as they want' may be clearly limited (not sure if this is the right word) as the trumpet and bowl judgments. To support this, there have been prophecies in the OT which clearly have an earthly 'command', but a heavenly 'execution' without the prophet 'telling God what to do'. I believe it may be that there is an assumption that certain 'quantities' of effect are assumed to be one-to-one. For instance, how many events may occur to turn 1/3 of the seas to blood? The assumption is a single event. What if (based upon the two witnesses 'as often as they want') it occurs in steps or stages? 2. the witnesses exercise of their abilities may be independent of the trumpets and bowls - John was not contemplating the one being dependent upon the other. I think this is what most people consider, yet I am not aware of a supporting scripture to show that there will be much MUCH MORE plague, pestilence, et al, than what the trumpets and bowls describe. Therefore, if this possibility is true, then we cannot assume that the seals, trumpets or bowls are exclusively describing the events of the Tribulation. You make a valid point. One I hadn’t thought of. It is possible, as you say, that the 2 witnesses could cause a trumpet to blow. But I am also reminded of these points I’d have to consider: 1. Christ opens the seals. 2. The 2 witnesses are removed by their being called up before the 7th Trumpet and the bowls 3. In Rev 7:3, it is an angels voice that is heard commanding other agents to “hurt not” X, Y and Z on the earth “till they seal” the 144k. The angel gives the commandment, but if it can be proved that the 2 witnesses request it...thus the angel is following them. It would follow Moses and Aaron as 2 witnesses before the plagues of Egypt. There is such a lack of information that we know regarding the 2 witnesses. If it exists, our eyes haven’t been open to that part yet. I find your idea intriguing. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 27, 2019 14:38:47 GMT -6
Note what I bolded up there. The phrase implies many many times, yet we see each trumpet and bowl as a discrete event. This seems to lend itself to two possibilities: 1. It could very well be that the 'command' is given by the two witnesses, but the 'action' is performed by the angels as prophesied by John in the trumpet and bowl judgments. The witnesses' mandate most certainly must conform to the will of God, so the frequency of 'as often as they want' may be clearly limited (not sure if this is the right word) as the trumpet and bowl judgments. To support this, there have been prophecies in the OT which clearly have an earthly 'command', but a heavenly 'execution' without the prophet 'telling God what to do'. I believe it may be that there is an assumption that certain 'quantities' of effect are assumed to be one-to-one. For instance, how many events may occur to turn 1/3 of the seas to blood? The assumption is a single event. What if (based upon the two witnesses 'as often as they want') it occurs in steps or stages? 2. the witnesses exercise of their abilities may be independent of the trumpets and bowls - John was not contemplating the one being dependent upon the other. I think this is what most people consider, yet I am not aware of a supporting scripture to show that there will be much MUCH MORE plague, pestilence, et al, than what the trumpets and bowls describe. Therefore, if this possibility is true, then we cannot assume that the seals, trumpets or bowls are exclusively describing the events of the Tribulation. You make a valid point. One I hadn’t thought of. It is possible, as you say, that the 2 witnesses could cause a trumpet to blow. But I am also reminded of these points I’d have to consider: 1. Christ opens the seals. 2. The 2 witnesses are removed by their being called up before the 7th Trumpet and the bowls 3. In Rev 7:3, it is an angels voice that is heard commanding other agents to “hurt not” X, Y and Z on the earth “till they seal” the 144k. The angel gives the commandment, but if it can be proved that the 2 witnesses request it...thus the angel is following them. It would follow Moses and Aaron as 2 witnesses before the plagues of Egypt. There is such a lack of information that we know regarding the 2 witnesses. If it exists, our eyes haven’t been open to that part yet. I find your idea intriguing. I think it is true that we have not yet figured out exactly when the two witnesses will be on the scene. AFAIK, there are two time periods: first half of the 7 year 'week' and last half of the 7 year 'week'. (Something that also occurred to me is that there is no description of the scope or duration of the plagues they call. Are they localized? The plagues and pestilences they call do not appear to be those which destroy their enemies, per Rev 11:5...) If the first half, then I can see how they could recruit the 144k, who may be the remnant saved at the AoD after witnessing during the first half of the 70th week themselves; that is, the two witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem, and the 144k witness everywhere else in the world. If the last half, IDK how the 144k would witness anywhere prior to the AoD, but they would be untouchable in the world afterward, while those Jews who escape Jerusalem go into hiding. This may or may not differentiate the 144k from the 'Trib Saints' who are martyred during the 1290 days; that is, they may be part of the Trib Saint crowd. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 23:18:44 GMT -6
The sign of the Woman in labor occurred on 23 Sept 2017......the birth occurred on 15 October 2017....the very next week MBS strengthened the agreement. It's possible the 70th week began then, and we are in the birth pangs of Daniels 70th week.
Watch what Saudi does with the release of the plan......will they "cause to strengthen" again?
A potential error is forcing understanding of English law onto Biblical Hebrew....iow, our understanding of covenant, or beriyt, is signed sealed delivered........however, beriyt is far more broad from a biblical hebrew perspective
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 23:32:31 GMT -6
I have planned a new video depending on a second witness from Saudi.....
V'Higbir beriyt l'rabiyim shabua echad
Daniel 9:27 in pure Biblical Hebrew........"he will cause to strengthen covenant with many week one"
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 9:05:06 GMT -6
Another way to look at it......what effect did Saudi endorsement in late October 2017 of Kushner’s plan have on it’s chances? Did the endorsement strengthen the plan?
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Post by mike on May 12, 2019 9:37:23 GMT -6
Another way to look at it......what effect did Saudi endorsement in late October 2017 of Kushner’s plan have on it’s chances? Did the endorsement strengthen the plan? Sam the same day as the great American eclipse Kushner flew over to the middle East starting the process |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 19:03:20 GMT -6
Mike, thanks for the reminder! I went back and looked at Kushner's itinerary.....he left the US on the evening of the 20th, and landed in the Mideast on the 21st, the day of the eclipse. The Americans were shady about where he went first, but piecing things together it looks as though he met with MBS first, on the 22nd, after landing in Jeddah on the 21st. I suspect there were informal meetings with Saudi on the 21st as well... www.arabnews.com/node/1149216/saudi-arabia |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 18:50:46 GMT -6
Going back to 2016, major events dealing with Dividing the Land of the Everlasting Covenant coincided with the so-called "celestial signs", major feasts, or earth signs:
November 12-13, 2016 Kerry in New Zealand discussing the sponsoring of UN resolution 2334 Followed by 7.8 earthquake in Christchurch late the night on November 13
December 17, 2016 Zedek enters the womb of the Woman Amona agrees to evacuation on 12/18, in violation of Amos 9:15
December 23, 2016 UN 2334 passes resolution that declares Jewish settlements in the Land of Promise, Judea and Samaria, to be illegal under "international law", 9 months before the Woman in Labor
January 15, 2017 70 nations affirm division of the Land in Paris, 9 months before the birth of Zedek from the Woman on 15 October
August 21, 2017 Jared Kushner lands in Jeddah, to discuss the plan with mideast players, MBS and Saudi first on 22 August, with the Great American Eclipse on 21 August
September 20, 2017 Abbas addresses the UN assembly on the peace process, on the day of the Feast of Trumpets
September 23, 2017 The Woman in Labor follows by days Trump and Abbas at the UN
October 15, 2017 Zedek leaves the Womb, 1260 days from Pesach 2021, and then another 1290 + 3 (prophets) from Yom Kippur 2024
October 25, 2017 Kushner secretly leaves for Saudi, receives endorsement of the "Plan"....ie "he caused to strengthen covenant"
November 6, 2017 MBS summons Abbas to Riyadh, and informs Abbas he must accept the "Plan", or else
November 13, 2017 The 5th of a series of Bethlehem star conjunctions
The next item on the agenda.....release of the plan after Pentecost or Shavot....on 9 June 2019?
In the meantime, we have seen anti-Semitism and anti-Christian hatred and murder spread exponentially since 2016, as described as the real world effects of Satan being thrown to earth knowing his time is short...persecuting not only the Woman, but her offspring who hold to the testimony of Jesus
So far, the hypothesis that the celestial events pertain to the cause of judgement, the division of the land, is intact
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