Is the 70th week still to come?

stormyknight quoted:

The sixty-ninth week was to end with Messiah's death How is that true?  This is what the verse says:  26“Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.  I recall that there were to be 7 weeks and 62 weeks, no?  So anyting having to do with Messiah that is KEY to particular elements is in the period AFTER the 62 block.  BUT remember we already are past the 7 block & and 62...

the close of the seventieth week was to bring to Judah the full enjoyment of the blessings resulting from that death. Yes and it DID!  for ALL, and therein lies the pride within the corportate body of Sagges and the pharisess. It did not HAPPEN the way they THOUGHT it would go...


Judah's transgression has yet to be restrained, and his sins to be sealed up. I do not understand this comment because Jesus died for ALL.  All transgress and need the Saviour so I am again, flabbergasted by this thinking.

The day is yet future when a fountain shall be opened for the iniquity of Daniel's people.  Daniel's people are Abraham's people and the point of Abraham was 1) what it means to receive a New Name (he used to be called Abram) and that his "offspring" would be numbered like the sands of the seashore...when Jesus died buried rose and all of that, HE made it possible for ALL, and Abra-ham being the father of this obedience of following the LORD was made real at the First Coming.

and righteousness shall be ushered in for them.  It has been available to them since the Cross..

In what sense were vision and prophet sealed up at the death of Christ, considering that the greatest of all visions was yet to be given(BOR),
And whatever meaning is to be put upon "anointing the most holy," it is clear that Calvary was not the accomplishment of it."


I see the anointing was the baptism. the vision and sealing up to me is the Decree itself being made complete in Christ...

Hope this helps you understand my thinking...  blessings!

What Jesus is talking about in the Discourse is global.

It will involve the Whole Wide World.

Not just a local jurisdiction in the first century.

I can see you guys are having trouble here.

I wish i could think of a way of helping y'all out without writing a big long note.

It's looking to me like you're mixing up the abominations of desolations spoken of by THE Prophet Daniel.

I figured this one out easy just by having a knack for eyeballing the prophetic time periods in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. There are 18 of them, only the silence in Heaven for about the space of thirty minutes, half an hour, is giving me trouble right now. That word for hour is hora. There was no "hour" of 60 minutes back in the Bible days. It likely means anything BUT the space of 30 minutes. It might be half a season, it might be half a time or a watch in the night. It might be right now. Some times a "time" can be a year. 360 degrees of a rotation of the Earth around the sun. About the space of 6 moons.

But what it looks to me like you guys are doing on page 16 is making the assumption that the Abomination that Jesus was talking about in Mathew 24, was the one Daniel was talking about in Daniel 9. It wasn't. Daniel 9 AND Daniel 11:31 is not THE Abomination of our end times, the 1290 day Abomination, from Matthew 24. I'm very sure of this. The similar words are used but:

"And on the wing of abominations
shall come one who makes desolate,
until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

The one who MAKES desolate, is not the Desolation of our end times.

The wing of "abominatioS", is not the Abomination of our end time Desolation. The great city will be split into three parts, split into all three thirds. Not a third to spare. The time is coming for the Lord to destroy the destroyers of the earth. How did they do that? Because of these, the wrath of God falls on the sons of disobedience. I always thought that would be a cool name for an outlaw motorcycle gang. Instead of: "Hell's Angels, picture: "Sons of Disobedience" across the back of a leather jacket. Who want's to wear gypsy leather? All the way to Fire Lake.

I have also noticed that whenever we try to put the Bad Guy in the place where Jesus belongs, like in Revelation 6:2, or Daniel 9:27, it tends to throw a wrench into the rest of our end time navigation.

And it's nice to let our reasonableness be known to all men,
For the Lord is at hand.

And to the end,
Desolations are decreed.

Those angels can talk tricky,
We've got to keep our eye on them.

Who wants to play those eights and aces?
Who wants a raise who needs a stake?
Who wants to take that long-shot gamble?
And head out for Fire Lake...

well, I have heard this thinking before but I am not so sure. Let's look at the context of events surrounding it:

Luke 20: 1On one of the days while He was teaching the people in the temple and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes with the elders confronted Him, 2and they spoke, saying to Him, “Tell us by what authority You are doing these things, or who is the one who gave You this authority?”

Matt 23 seems to give an account of Jesus condemning the scribes for their beahviour.. but read both Luke 20 as well.  It all seems to be in the same context with the scribes challenging Him and Jesus condemning their behavior.

Luke 5And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, 6“As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”

Matt  1Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

Sure seems to me that the initial question about the 2nd temple is asked.  And the way Luke and Matt record the answering seems to be quite the same.  

Luke  7They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”
Matt …the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Luke 8And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them.
Matt 4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

the answers on both gospel accounts seem to be exactly the same.  I can keep going...  
I have no idea why people THINK Jesus is answering the same questions to two different peoples, or that one is one thing and the other is another.  These accounts seem to be equal in there context, timing of coming out of the temple teaching, and the situation that led to the questions to Jesus about the temple, his Coming and end of the age.  At least the 1st question is the same.  When will these things (the temple stones being overturned) happen?

Luke says it this way: 22because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (talking about the temple)
Matt says it this way: 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Daniel spoke of the desolations (vengeance) to come.  Luke calls it vengeance concerning "that all things which are written (about the temple destruction) will be fulfilled. Matt just says, go back and read Daniel!  reminding those that Daniel was told about the things will come to pass for the temple....

that is how I am seeing now.  I used to not view it this way, but I do now.

I know, but i'll bet you any money that this is where Paul was drawing from when he said that the man of sin would sit in the Temple of God and claim to BE God.

This WAS the CHAIR of Moses, Moses' place of authority in the Temple of God. 

They had SEATED themselves in the chair of Moses.

They had TAKEN Moses' seat in the Temple of God.

They had TAKEN Moses' place of Authority in the Temple of God.

www.blueletterbible.org/esv/mat/23/1/t_bibles_952002

This is what the Antichrist, the Devil, has done. He has thought to change times and the Law. Working through the composite beast, he has taken his seat in God's Temple. He has risen up to the Prince of the host.

Yes the Pharisees are BAD, they're nationwide.

But keep your eyes peeled.

Jesus told us to do what they said to DO:

"so do and observe whatever they tell you

As long as they are sitting in Moses' SEAT.

“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat

So DO and observe whatever they tell you

As long as they're sitting on Moses' seat.

But when they're NOT sitting on Moses' seat, don't do anything that they tell you to do.

When anyone sat in that seat of Moses, they were reading from the Law of God, NOT their own personal speculations about what was righteous.

Remember, Jesus did the opposite in Luke. He stood up to read from the scroll, and then sat down to speak with the authority of God.  

(When i re-read this, i'm thinking it's not making sense)

I find this note from Torah apologetics helpful, but i'm not sure the author is clear.
He mentions Jesus standing up to read, and then SAT DOWN to speak. I'm just not sure that the author understands that Jesus did not need Moses' seat in order to have the authority in the Temple of God.
torahapologetics.weebly.com/history--culture/the-seat-of-moses

When i recite the words of Jesus, after He sat down to speak in Luke 4, i count less than 60 seconds.

And then i hit this:

"When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath.

"And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff.

"But passing through their midst, he went away.

KJ
Doesn't all of Dan 11 & 12 speak of the end?

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Seems to me chapter 12 continues the dialogue of 11

Nope, that's not what i meant. Just the opposite.

Sorry for the kooky language.

What i was saying, if i could ever spit it out, was: 
What i probably should have said is that ONLY the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel in Chapter 12 is the Abomination that Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24.

I see the 1290 days as a key that can't be made to fit with Daniel 9 OR 11. 

(Let The Reader Understand) <--- I wonder why they put that in there. Did Jesus turn and look at the camera and actually speak these words that night on the mount called Olivet?

Could the understanding of this be so unique, so peculiar to the times we are living in now, that it would be impossible for the HEARERS of the Discourse to understand it back in the first century?

I can't.

All of Matthew 24 is end times. Luke 21 is different, it was in the morning INSIDE the Temple, in front of a crowd of people. Matthew 24 was latter in the evening. A 20 minute hike down the Temple mount, across the Kidron Valley, and up to the mount called Olivet.

Matthew 24 was a private discourse given to just 4 disciples.

In the Daniel passages, yes.

But i think Matthew 24 is all end times, our times.

Starting at WW1 and WW2. 20th century.


I don't know what to tell you here kjs.

I wish that i could think of something palatable for you to digest. Everything that comes to mind is going to sound blunt.

Plus i have some wild eyed ideas that are bound to sound spooky. So i should no doubt choose my words carefully.

You're right that: "Since Jesus tells us specifically, that he (Jesus) is referring to the Prophet Daniel .... we know that at least one (if not all) of the passages of scripture within Daniel is being under discussion....

At least one of the passages within Daniel is being under discussion.

I tend to rule out the two early Daniel passages, and go with Daniel 12 ONLY as our end time 1290 day indicator.

For Daniel 11, a quick way to do that is to look at verse 35:

"And some of the wise shall stumble,
so that they may be refined, purified,
and made white, until the time of the end,
for it still awaits the appointed time.

The Time of the End, ---> still awaits the appointed time.

Verse 35, and everything north of it, is in the past. 

Our end times, which i speculate we are in now, began with verse 36 not too long ago.

"He will say unheard-of things against the God of gods, in Daniel 11:36,

I see the same thing as:

"It opened its mouth to blaspheme God,
and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. from Revelation 13:6

So verse 31 is the destruction of Jerusalem. 

Daniel 11:31

"The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. - Numbers 35:4​

When i was looking for our end time Abomination, i kept getting stuck on the idea that the temple mount has ceased to be the "holy place" since the day that the curtain was rent. So what I did was to relax my criteria and consider other possibilities for what might be a "holy place" in our appointed time of the end.

If the Roman army could be considered to be standing in a "holy place" because the "earth" surrounding the city wall of Jerusalem from 1500 feet outwards was the land, the ground, that was given to the Levites by God Himself, then there might be other "holy places" that we've overlooked. 

"Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy."
And Joshua did so. - Joshua 5:15​

But then for some reason Cestius abandoned his siege in 66 AD. Some have said that he got a word that a Cesar had died and he needed to go back to Rome. When the Jews saw him leaving, they took chase. They attacked Cestius from behind and the Roman's took heavy casualties.

But this was the BIGGIE sign for the Christians from Luke 21. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The early Christians who remembered Jesus' words were able to walk right out of the open gates of the city UNMOLESTED. And they did not return to the city.

Plus, i think the early Christians were following all those back and forth regional wars prior to Daniel 11:31, the king of the north, the king of the south and the ships of Kittim. They, like we, could see it was getting close. Time was short.

During Gallus's withdrawal his column was ambushed near Beth Horon, suffering very heavy losses. He was only able to reach Antipatris with the loss of about 6,000 men and a large amount of war material.[2] Judea was now almost entirely lost to Roman control.

Then the Jews came back and celebrated their victory. They thought that they won and God was on their side. Then events in Jerusalem would continue on as normal. They thought everything was going to be fine.

But they were in a deadly countdown of days, a tribulation of the Matrix, where things were not what they seemed to be. From 9/66 to 4/70. About three years and change. And then when Titus came and set up the real siege, the door was sealed, there would be no more escape.

I continue to wonder if we're not once again in some deadly countdown of days. Where everyone is walking around in an end times of the Matrix. Walking around like things are normal, but they're not.

The earth has helped the woman, and become an all new "holy place", a place prepared by God, where the end time Abomination stands where it ought not to be.

We will see.

Peaceful Sabbath.