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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 2, 2019 17:03:37 GMT -6
not trying to beat a dead horse, but in church today after a month of non-attending, something was brought to my attention. Assistant pastor was in Romans 5. This led me to Gal 4:4 (because of Romans 5:6) Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Romans 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
We should expect that nothing happens in regards to God in random. The context of both Romans (where Paul is defining the jew, the gentile, the law, the fulfillment of law Sin and the Two Adams teaching (ch 5), it does not surprise me when addressing Galatia. 1Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. was this bondage not also what concerned Daniel? for we have rebelled against Him; 10nor have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us...all this calamity has come on us; yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquity and giving attention to Your truth. 14“Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it on us; for the LORD our God is righteous with respect to all His deeds which He has done, but we have not obeyed His voice.
But getting back to the fullness definition and time definition in regards to Gal 4:4, I see this from Hub: fullness: pleroma " sum total, fulness, even (super) abundance" and this that portion of time by which a longer antecedent period is completed; hence, completeness, fullness, of time: biblehub.com/greek/4138.htmand the use of "time"chronou: sovereignly apportioned by God to each person. (and to a people?) to quote the definition, see also: biblehub.com/greek/5550.htmI find it interesting at Hub the cross-references when you choose just the verse of Gal 4:4 biblehub.com/galatians/4-4.htm The first thing to cross-reference is the goat atonement... But just in case you think I am reading into scripture, I was pointed to another piece of scripture having to do with the baptism of Christ and the lack of understanding by the leadership verses those following Christ himself: Matt 17.. 9As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”
10And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things;
12but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.point being: ponder the things in a broader sense so as not to miss something.. Jesus answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs (observation, careful watching) to be observed. Since the Sign of 9/23 I believe we need to be on guard even more that we NOT look to SEE something that isn't going to be there in the first place. This is core point I have come to hold in the defense of the 70th week IS fulfilled. I can not get entangled in this 70th week theology as it MAY JUST AS WELL been fulfilled, and scripture seems to point to a full complete, uninterrupted 490 period. I want to encourage others: Be not caught looking to something that could very well NOT ever happen, ie.anti-Christ in a physical temple, namely, sacrificing something that halts the sacrifice or halts the sacrifice in general or whatever... blessings to you all |
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Post by mike on Jun 2, 2019 19:43:51 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl said If the 70th week was completed already we need to be ever more diligent in keeping watch for the returning, triumphant King of kings. If the 70th is begun or about to begin, what have we lost? It could start as some see scripture, with the rapture. If that is the case Hallelujah we are in the clouds. If the rapture happens in the middle of that week (assuming it hasn't yet been completed or begun) we keep watching the signs of His soon return. I believe it best not put all eggs in a basket.
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Post by kjs on Jun 3, 2019 12:12:25 GMT -6
Since the Sign of 9/23 I believe we need to be on guard even more that we NOT look to SEE something that isn't going to be there in the first place. This is core point I have come to hold in the defense of the 70th week IS fulfilled. I can not get entangled in this 70th week theology as it MAY JUST AS WELL been fulfilled, and scripture seems to point to a full complete, uninterrupted 490 period. We disagree with each other about the 70 Weeks .... and I have tried everything I can to show you were I believe your logic is off.
But fine -- Let us say for a moment (a moment only) that the 490 time period has come and gone .......
How do you resolve Jesus' words in Matthew 24? {Matthew 24: 15-31}
21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. 22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten",
-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" -- Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV}
abomination of desolation -- spoken of BY DANIEL --- "he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Do You SEE?
Your claiming the 70th week is over and done with ...........
Yet the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus and the shortening of Days -- Also spoken by Jesus Have NOT Occurred ......
Yet -- Jesus says these to passages are LINKED Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 15:32 ....................
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Post by venge on Jun 3, 2019 12:49:43 GMT -6
Since the Sign of 9/23 I believe we need to be on guard even more that we NOT look to SEE something that isn't going to be there in the first place. This is core point I have come to hold in the defense of the 70th week IS fulfilled. I can not get entangled in this 70th week theology as it MAY JUST AS WELL been fulfilled, and scripture seems to point to a full complete, uninterrupted 490 period. We disagree with each other about the 70 Weeks .... and I have tried everything I can to show you were I believe your logic is off.
But fine -- Let us say for a moment (a moment only) that the 490 time period has come and gone .......
How do you resolve Jesus' words in Matthew 24? {Matthew 24: 15-31}
21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. 22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten",
-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" -- Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV}
abomination of desolation -- spoken of BY DANIEL --- "he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Do You SEE?
Your claiming the 70th week is over and done with ...........
Yet the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus and the shortening of Days -- Also spoken by Jesus Have NOT Occurred ......
Yet -- Jesus says these to passages are LINKED Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 15:32 ....................
This is the only thing I have trouble with too with those I agree most on. Matthew 24 also stated immediately after the Tribulation— the 6th seal events are mentioned. This hasn’t happened yet and if it didn’t happen and it comes after tribulation, that hasn’t happened either. I do see problems with the gap theory but just as many problems with the completion theory. I believe all of us are missing some scripture that puts it all into perspective. We just need to understand it |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 3, 2019 13:14:17 GMT -6
Kjs on my phone worst way to reply but I am waiting on a tire.
So I do not see the reply by Jesus as a continuous reply. I see him as answering the three questions of the beginning of Mt 24 in layers. An answer to A then B then A again and b then c then B then c..thats an example spelled out and I can't grab the verses to show you.
I also consider how Luke witnessed the same discussion. Also abominations how I see it will continue to the End and result in desolation becuz the prophecy states so in D 9. The Abom. that makes desolate to me is the continual refusal of Christ as King, Lord, Saviour etc. Lack of Repenting. The prayer of Daniel describes the attitude of what causes desolation and the blindness toward Gods ways.
Help me out w/ where in Dan 9 is a shortening of time mentioned ?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 3, 2019 21:12:22 GMT -6
because I see you as a brother in Christ I do not want to make this a race for a prize, but you and me both reaching for understanding of something NO ONE will ever completely grasp. Not one of us mere beings should grasp ALL the Lord's ways.. it is not possible. Yet we can agree we are seeing things two ways that you think are not in agreement and I say you are using scripture not part of the argument.
A) for example: you asked me this: Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten", what are you talking about, kjs? no where in Daniel 9 is there any talk of days being shortened so you are actually giving me a verse that is not a Daniel 9 verse so why are we talking about it?
B)-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" --
Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV}
well, I ask, were you alive and living when the jews were making their last stronghold against the Romans, in the day? Apparently a whole bunch of them committed suicide than rather be taken captive, Again..it was a blood bath, so I have read in an account of the year 73AD.. It was a great tribulation for that generation of people watching a giant temple, supposedly of God, become ruins.. even if I am wrong I still stand that Gabriel is saying A and the result of A is B. as a bystander reader of Daniel, "B" is not implied to be within the 70th week. THIS is where I think you are thinking I am nuts!
There will be a flood Noah, build a boat and get in it, I am judging the world, says the Lord..but it lasted past the intial flood that killed the people. Not all of this happened in a specific timeframe but happened because of God's timing, a period of 40... the 2nd temple ended up getting flattened after a long-established period shown by God what happens when you "miss" His communication. 40 years of wilderness to ponder and repent...Noah didn't need repenting per se, but he was stuck in a boat for himself, 40 days. The people of Judah, had 40 years to come to terms of what the apostles (fellow brethren) were trying and begging them to SEE...
the 70th week is over and done with, but not the trumpets nor the Sealing, nor the bowls, nor the 1000K reign. I am saying the 490 is DONE, so even more we ought to have oil ready. Faith. We are to mourn for Judah, as they are doomed to desolation, until the End. THAT is what Dan 9 is saying to me. Most of the rest of Daniel after 9 talks about the beasts and the struggle that will continue and then we get to Ch 12 and Daniel is told that there will be those who rise to everlasting life, and those to everlasting contempt.. This not a "Rapture" verse. This is part of what it takes to restore the First "chosen" who will be Last. Dan Ch 12 is a brief visojn that we get more of in Rev . What we get in Revelation is a bit more detail of these who rise to contempt...(the Winepress destinators)..
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 4, 2019 8:12:11 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl, I'm still plowing through this book, but serendipitously, after reading your post yesterday, last night I read this passage in Sir Robert Anderson's book, "The Coming Prince".
"But it may be asked, Was not the Cross of Christ the fulfillment of these blessings? (meaning the seventy weeks prophecy) A careful study of the Angel's words (Dan. 9:24) will show that not so much as one of them has been thus accomplished. The sixty-ninth week was to end with Messiah's death; the close of the seventieth week was to bring to Judah the full enjoyment of the blessings resulting from that death. Judah's transgression has yet to be restrained, and his sins to be sealed up. The day is yet future when a fountain shall be opened for the iniquity of Daniel's people,(Zech. 13:1) and righteousness shall be ushered in for them. In what sense were vision and prophet sealed up at the death of Christ, considering that the greatest of all visions was yet to be given(BOR), and the days were still to come when the words of the prophets were to be fulfilled?(Luke 21:22) And whatever meaning is to be put upon "anointing the most holy," it is clear that Calvary was not the accomplishment of it."
I'm not trying to say one way or the other since I'm still learning, just showing what I read. TBH, this was written before 1918 and a lot has happened since.
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Post by kjs on Jun 4, 2019 11:52:03 GMT -6
A) for example: you asked me this: Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten", what are you talking about, kjs? no where in Daniel 9 is there any talk of days being shortened so you are actually giving me a verse that is not a Daniel 9 verse so why are we talking about it? B)-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" -- Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV} well, I ask, were you alive and living when the jews were making their last stronghold against the Romans, in the day? Apparently a whole bunch of them committed suicide than rather be taken captive, Again..it was a blood bath, so I have read in an account of the year 73AD.. It was a great tribulation for that generation of people watching a giant temple, supposedly of God, become ruins.. even if I am wrong I still stand that Gabriel is saying A and the result of A is B. as a bystander reader of Daniel, "B" is not implied to be within the 70th week. THIS is where I think you are thinking I am nuts! Trying to shorten these "quotes" to make easier reading.....
"Days shorten" is not in Daniel 9 ... Jesus said that (Matt 24:15-32) “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place...." 1) my paraphrased version "Get out of Town regardless what you are doing..... 2) you better hope this event does not take place in the winter or on a sabbath .... 3) Great Tribulation the Like the world has never seen both before or after .... 4) In Fact so great is the tribulation -- the days had to be shorten.
How do we know this applies to Daniel 9 -- Because Jesus Tells Us Specifically.
Jesus also Adding something not in Daniel 9 -- whatever this "abomination of desolation" -- it is standing in the holy place -- (so additional question -- where exactly was this "standing item found" {for the past history}) No, I was not there when Romans Sacked Jerusalem -- but I was not there when Hitler murdered 6 million Jews -- I suspect the Hitler episode was worst than the Roman on -- as far as tribulations go -- so if Jesus said the "kick off" of the greater tribulation (which no one has experienced....) is "the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place...." -- think one who says it is already done and over with needs to identify why other events (Like Hitler) is not greater than the Roman Sack.
All I am saying -- it really seems you are going to a lot of trouble trying to "PROVE" the 490 years was continuous -- when other text fails to align -- like what Jesus had to say about Daniel.
Which -- still needing the example on how the event was continuous -- when the death and resurrection was 37 to 40 years before the sacking .... hard to fit a 7 year period within that amount of time.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 4, 2019 14:15:41 GMT -6
all I can say is that 'the other text that seem to "not align" ' are because I see them as events on their own, or dual, yet a result of the 70th week event. Ok, so let me just ask, what do you think God will think when a red heifer sacrifice is used to instigates the revival of a third temple? Matt account 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Luke's account 20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23“Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
what Jesus is saying to me is "A day is coming when this city and this temple will be desolated. When that times comes, it will be very difficult for this people. Many will be killed or captured and spread across the globe. Jerusalem will be ruled and fought over by the beast nations until the appointed time for the beast kingdoms to give up their authority. " I have mentioned before that I see the times of the Gentiles to be about the beast systems/kingdoms. I see these two gospel passages were fulfilled in the destruction of the Jews, Jerusalem, and the temple in the 1st century. This means I think more was fulfilled than most think or "include" in their timeframes. I see the Kingdom tribulation began when Judah - the holder of the Keys to the Kingdom (the kingship mandate bringing in the Christ) - was placed into captivity of Babylon. This began a long 7 times punishment. 7 times 360 years (2520). - or if we want to express this in 21's (the time of Jacob's trouble) 21 times 120 years (another pattern of God shown in the OT) And, as it began, this 'captivity' will not end until we are finally freed from 'Mystery' Babylon. I am not a dispensational thinker, rather things build upon each other, not go in reverse. As a gentile I am equally grafted in to the trouble with idols like Judah. Like ancient Israel, I have been given a new name because of Faith, counted as righteous, because the New Covenant (with many) was LEGALLY made, and for ALL the nations promised to Abraham. After this "Tribulation" - The day of the Lord begins. The Day of the Lord forces the end of the tribulation (the captivity). The authority of the kingdom was given to the beast kingdoms as told about in Daniel. They were and have been rightly ruling, but now their time is up. Part of knowing their time is up is what the Sign meant to me. People mess with exact dates , but I know we are super close to His return more than ever. Since then (the Sign at minimum), and likely an exact 2520 from 607BC (because of the decree given by Daniel), they (the beast kingdoms) have been acting against the law of God. They are in disobedience and providing a cause of action against them, just like what happened to a specific nation in 70 AD, so to to ALL the nations at His Coming. HOW do I see the Matt/Luke passages as dual?: The way it will come to an end is that God will put it into the hearts of the final 'kings' to tear apart the flesh of Mystery Babylon and in conjunction with this, the Day of the Lord will dawn. The light of His coming will reveal the man of perdition within His people. (God's People, those who are FOLLOWING Him and the new COVENANT (made with many both at the Baptism spiritual & the Cross legally), not just those from the ancient days of the old covenant) It will reveal the Sons of God (Sons of Israel). And it will reveal the King (our Main Man Jesus!). And this HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. The revealing of Mystery Babylon (the lawlessness within that produces desolation for each person) removes the mystery of it all. Without the cloak - without the veil - Mystery Babylon cannot sustain itself. It will be one big giant Repentance that destroys her This entire experience is part of the tribulation. “The” tribulation has been going on since Babylon captured Jerusalem and I have come to see this now. It continues to this day. But God is now moving because the Time of the Gentiles - the sequence of ruling beast kingdoms has come to an end. Many believe the tribulation is a 7 year end time event. I would say most believe this as have I, even coming to this place of Unsealed, I thought that way. So it does not surprise me to find out that in God’s economy of time, it has been 7 years. in the form of 7 * 360. I was shown that Lev 26 shows these parallels to the Matt and Luke accounts. When we compare this to the passages in Matthew and Luke, we see that this is exactly what Jesus was talking about. We have the carcasses being collected and laid prepared as a feast for the birds, we see the Jewish people being scattered among the nations, we have the desolation of the people and the city. And we have the time period - “7 times.” so I am not saying it is one and done of the 70th week, I am saying the 70th week completion happened, and it's man's resistance of the Answer to (daniel's) Prayer that still rings truw today, so yes, when we keep seeing abominations against the Lord, and man setting himself up as God of his own heart, desolations will ensue. Those who Follow the Lord learn to Hear Him, learn how to discern right from wrong, all that. THIS is what results in the revelation of Truth that reveals ALSO the lawlessness within.. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 5, 2019 16:36:34 GMT -6
Since the Sign of 9/23 I believe we need to be on guard even more that we NOT look to SEE something that isn't going to be there in the first place. This is core point I have come to hold in the defense of the 70th week IS fulfilled. I can not get entangled in this 70th week theology as it MAY JUST AS WELL been fulfilled, and scripture seems to point to a full complete, uninterrupted 490 period. We disagree with each other about the 70 Weeks .... and I have tried everything I can to show you were I believe your logic is off.
But fine -- Let us say for a moment (a moment only) that the 490 time period has come and gone .......
How do you resolve Jesus' words in Matthew 24? {Matthew 24: 15-31}
21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. 22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten",
-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" -- Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV}
abomination of desolation -- spoken of BY DANIEL --- "he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Do You SEE?
Your claiming the 70th week is over and done with ...........
Yet the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus and the shortening of Days -- Also spoken by Jesus Have NOT Occurred ......
Yet -- Jesus says these to passages are LINKED Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 15:32 ....................
Just adding some relevant details to this. Especially in regards to how there is a lot of emphasis on tribulation by Jesus. The days were cut short isn’t referring to the literal day loosing hours, it means the time period of this tribulation was shortened because of the violence and severity of it. When the Jews fully rebelled again the romans the than the romans set up their pagan statues in the temple and took it over, there was bloodshed like the Jews had never seen before. It is said through historical research that over a million Jews were crucified. Not just killed but crucified! There is believed to have been around 2 million altogether that were killed in the most horrific ways. The Romans completely and violently trampled the Jews to death to make a very bold statement of their might. That is why the last of Jews who were still in the city stood on the ramp leading to the temple killed themselves. It was better to do it by their own hand than endure what the Romans were going to do to them. The Romans came during the rebellion by the Jews and encamped Jerusalem. Those in the city had no way of escaping. This would explain why Jesus said if you are on the rooftop do not go down to get your things. Leave because there will be no time! Because if someone second guessed just fleeing and trying to get away, they would lose their life or be subjected to the barbaric things the Romans did during that time period. Just commenting as something to think about in regards to what was happening during that time period. |
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Post by kjs on Jun 6, 2019 6:51:46 GMT -6
Just adding some relevant details to this. Especially in regards to how there is a lot of emphasis on tribulation by Jesus. The days were cut short isn’t referring to the literal day loosing hours, it means the time period of this tribulation was shortened because of the violence and severity of it. When the Jews fully rebelled again the romans the than the romans set up their pagan statues in the temple and took it over, there was bloodshed like the Jews had never seen before. It is said through historical research that over a million Jews were crucified. Not just killed but crucified! There is believed to have been around 2 million altogether that were killed in the most horrific ways. The Romans completely and violently trampled the Jews to death to make a very bold statement of their might. That is why the last of Jews who were still in the city stood on the ramp leading to the temple killed themselves. It was better to do it by their own hand than endure what the Romans were going to do to them. The Romans came during the rebellion by the Jews and encamped Jerusalem. Those in the city had no way of escaping. This would explain why Jesus said if you are on the rooftop do not go down to get your things. Leave because there will be no time! Because if someone second guessed just fleeing and trying to get away, they would lose their life or be subjected to the barbaric things the Romans did during that time period. Just commenting as something to think about in regards to what was happening during that time period.
Ok, getting tired of saying the same thing over and over again.
What happen to the Jews under Hitler -- was more tragic and tribulation-list than what happen under Roman.... More people were involved, More deaths recorded .... and on and on about MORE THAN....
Jesus said "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."
Means what-ever happens during this "Final Week" -- is worst then anything that ever happen or will ever happen......
Meaning -- Just as Hitler was worst than Romans put down ..... some point in time something even worst than Hitler will fall on them.....
While I can see how "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." could possibly be interpreted to mean a shorten time duration... I do not think it means that ... the phrase days cut short appears to mean just that a shorten day.....
At any rate -- Jesus' words strongly indicate the "Happening" {The Abomination of Desolation} is Still to Come....
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jun 6, 2019 7:07:07 GMT -6
kjs, somewhere early on in this post I said that I had a viewpoint that was not the same and it was not in me to convince people to believe the way that I have come to see it. I agree with you to a poibt that We will "see" the Abomination that makes desolate because of 2Thes 2:3. The reason it will be "seen" is because I believe the First Fruits will have the ability to "see" it. I don't know how the haulocost fitted in in the prophecies. But we know both jew and Christians have suffered prosecution. Truly the past 2000 years has had its ups and downs. And as far as the Abomination that make Desolate, even until the end these desolations are determined. That statement in Daniel tells me that the resulting judgements happen outside of the 70 weeks or periods of Sevens. The judgements don't seem to happen within the periods but after them depending upon the repentance toward or within those periods of time.
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Post by mike on Jun 6, 2019 9:05:12 GMT -6
Ok, getting tired of saying the same thing over and over again.
What happen to the Jews under Hitler -- was more tragic and tribulation-list than what happen under Roman.... More people were involved, More deaths recorded .... and on and on about MORE THAN....
Jesus said "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."
Means what-ever happens during this "Final Week" -- is worst then anything that ever happen or will ever happen......
Meaning -- Just as Hitler was worst than Romans put down ..... some point in time something even worst than Hitler will fall on them.....
While I can see how "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." could possibly be interpreted to mean a shorten time duration... I do not think it means that ... the phrase days cut short appears to mean just that a shorten day.....
At any rate -- Jesus' words strongly indicate the "Happening" {The Abomination of Desolation} is Still to Come....
I would tend to agree with you here KJ. Sure what the Romans did in 68-73 AD to the Jews was likely very horrific. Now since we must rely on purely historical references, we are going to have to certify that a million Jews were murdered, and some even took their own lives so the Romans wouldnt torture them. Again we dont have much to go by on this other that ancient/historical writings. If I compare that information to the Holocaust where 6 million Jews were murdered (along with 2 million gypsy's - dont forget them) I would lean towards the holocaust being worse. We can review documented historical writings, pictures, notes and/or diaries from Hitler's SS, Himmler and the other murderous crew from that reign of pure terror. When I link the history to what Jesus said it is hard to refute (though not impossible) that the Holocaust was worse. The key to the whole for me at this present time is Matt 24:21 " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." If in fact the Holocaust was worse, then He was speaking of that! BUT if the Roman invasion was the worst, then no matter how bad the Holocaust was or any other slaughter, none will compare to that event. But as most interpret this verse as the "worst time in human history" is coming - neither of these two events will compare to it. Lord have mercy |
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 6, 2019 9:30:32 GMT -6
But as most interpret this verse as the "worst time in human history" is coming - neither of these two events will compare to it. Lord have mercy The really sad part? This mankind's doing. It may be driven by the principalities and powers of the air, but it's still human against human, because;
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. " Matt. 24:29-31
barbiosheepgirl, just thinking out loud, I was under the impression that while the narrative in Matt 24 pertains to the end tribulation, the one in Luke pertains to the destruction of the temple/Jerusalem. The wording is similar, but different enough to show it is two different events. Matthew talks of the AoD and Luke talks about the armies surrounding Jerusalem. |
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 6, 2019 10:46:33 GMT -6
Just adding some relevant details to this. Especially in regards to how there is a lot of emphasis on tribulation by Jesus. The days were cut short isn’t referring to the literal day loosing hours, it means the time period of this tribulation was shortened because of the violence and severity of it. When the Jews fully rebelled again the romans the than the romans set up their pagan statues in the temple and took it over, there was bloodshed like the Jews had never seen before. It is said through historical research that over a million Jews were crucified. Not just killed but crucified! There is believed to have been around 2 million altogether that were killed in the most horrific ways. The Romans completely and violently trampled the Jews to death to make a very bold statement of their might. That is why the last of Jews who were still in the city stood on the ramp leading to the temple killed themselves. It was better to do it by their own hand than endure what the Romans were going to do to them. The Romans came during the rebellion by the Jews and encamped Jerusalem. Those in the city had no way of escaping. This would explain why Jesus said if you are on the rooftop do not go down to get your things. Leave because there will be no time! Because if someone second guessed just fleeing and trying to get away, they would lose their life or be subjected to the barbaric things the Romans did during that time period. Just commenting as something to think about in regards to what was happening during that time period.
Ok, getting tired of saying the same thing over and over again.
What happen to the Jews under Hitler -- was more tragic and tribulation-list than what happen under Roman.... More people were involved, More deaths recorded .... and on and on about MORE THAN....
Jesus said "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."
Means what-ever happens during this "Final Week" -- is worst then anything that ever happen or will ever happen......
Meaning -- Just as Hitler was worst than Romans put down ..... some point in time something even worst than Hitler will fall on them.....
While I can see how "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." could possibly be interpreted to mean a shorten time duration... I do not think it means that ... the phrase days cut short appears to mean just that a shorten day.....
At any rate -- Jesus' words strongly indicate the "Happening" {The Abomination of Desolation} is Still to Come....
If your getting tired of it than stop commenting. Seriously. Really don’t care for the attitude and shortness in your responses sometimes. This isn’t a I am right and you are wrong sort of conversation, at least for me it isn’t. Putting information out like I did isn’t me saying this is right over you and your thought process or knowledge on the subject. It’s laying out details and information to think on and go over the scriptures with everyone here. If someone responds with a different opinion or information it does not offend me like it seems to do with you. I look into it, read scriptures, historical information and think about it. Maybe you should look at why opposing or different views and ideas are so offensive to you on this topic. |
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