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Post by kjs on May 28, 2019 10:52:22 GMT -6
 I found this image when i was doing a google job on "HIGH SABBATH." It's from a bad Wiki page. (They don't know what it is) I know what it is, i was just trying to find out if i could find someone else that could word it out better than me. I did, but it's in a video. The High Sabbath from John was because the Jews were observing the Passover on the same day as the regular weekly Sabbath that falls on Saturday. But that begins at sundown on Friday, night before light. The High Sabbath is ANY seventh day Sabbath that also happens to fall on another holy convocation Feast Day. It's a special Sabbath. What might add to the confusion is that their day begins at sundown. I'm a Sabbatarian, so i keep my eye on the sundown times beginning Friday evening. And the evening and the morning were the seventh day.
{Exodus 12: 14-20} is the passage that sets up the first day of Unleavened Bread as a Sabbath (ie meaning no work) -- ANY TIME a week contained TWO Sabbaths the one referring to the Feast Day is the one that is called High Day -- as opposed to just the regular weekly Sabbath day.
This was to simply to keep the two sabbaths during the same week separated -- AND ONLY FEAST DAY Sabbaths were called HIGH.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 28, 2019 11:00:04 GMT -6
kjs , I still think you are not understanding what I am saying. Let me see if I can say it another way in how I understand Gabriel on the matter: verse 25: 7 weeks and 62 Weeks will happen, and not only is the 2nd physical temple built, but Messiah shows up.. even in times of distress the temple will be built again. verse 26: after the 62 week section happens, something happens to & with the Messiah, because of this, the physical temple will be destroyed (Jesus orally gives more details to his disciples) verse 27: Let me give you more detail about this final "week" , Daniel, the purpose behind messiah will be confirmed spiritually and physically yet abominations will continue (they will not accept this new covenant) and because of it, desolations are determined and will be poured out even unto the end of time I know why we are having this debate, an epiphany here I will share. This truly is a dual prophecy in more ways than one: verse 25: 7 weeks and 62 Weeks will happen, and not only is the 2nd physical temple built, but Messiah shows up.. even in times of distress the temple will be built again. The temple of God not made with hands will be/or IS being built again (Rev 12 Sign indicating the Tabernacling is about to commence), but as we so know, it will come to fruition in times of distress. As the final beast kingdom falls and Jesus takes over, the beast does not lay down lightly. God's Will will be done on this earth (as it is in heaven) starting with the building(glorification) of the Temple of the new covenant. I think we will see attempts for a physical 3rd temple, but, not because we are waiting on a gap of Daniel to be filfilled. It is because there is nothing new under the Sun. This is why I am careful and being stubborn here about modern day Judah and what we think we should see physically, when it has nothing to do with those physical things directly. As Paul says, set your mind on the Spirit! here is another verse about the confirmed covenant: 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. Baptism and Physical Death, and the Spirit testified: And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.the finishing of the testimony came with His blood 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe.
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Post by davewatchman on May 28, 2019 11:36:04 GMT -6
I found this image when i was doing a google job on "HIGH SABBATH." It's from a bad Wiki page. (They don't know what it is) I know what it is, i was just trying to find out if i could find someone else that could word it out better than me. I did, but it's in a video. The High Sabbath from John was because the Jews were observing the Passover on the same day as the regular weekly Sabbath that falls on Saturday. But that begins at sundown on Friday, night before light. The High Sabbath is ANY seventh day Sabbath that also happens to fall on another holy convocation Feast Day. It's a special Sabbath. What might add to the confusion is that their day begins at sundown. I'm a Sabbatarian, so i keep my eye on the sundown times beginning Friday evening. And the evening and the morning were the seventh day.
{Exodus 12: 14-20} is the passage that sets up the first day of Unleavened Bread as a Sabbath (ie meaning no work) -- ANY TIME a week contained TWO Sabbaths the one referring to the Feast Day is the one that is called High Day -- as opposed to just the regular weekly Sabbath day.
This was to simply to keep the two sabbaths during the same week separated -- AND ONLY FEAST DAY Sabbaths were called HIGH.
Nope, i don't think so. Not in this case. Not in the case of Passion week. kjs , I still think you are not understanding what I am saying. But thanks for boosting my REST post up to the top of the page. "-- ANY TIME a week contained TWO Sabbaths the one referring to the Feast Day is the one that is called High Day -- Let me ask you this. What if a week contained TWO Sabbaths, but they just happened to fall on the very SAME day? That would be what John would call a High Sabbath. It is when a Feast Day falls also on the regular seventh day Sabbath. "It is a day of Sabbath rest,
and you must deny yourselves;
it is a lasting ordinance.If the day of atonement were to fall on a Saturday, that too would be called a Special, or a High Sabbath. You get two, for the price of one. It's a Special Sabbath, a Super Sabbath, or a High Sabbath. Like when the Old Time Jews were trying to celebrate Passover on the seventh day Sabbath, two days after Jesus observed the true Passover on Thursday night. Watch all 28 minutes: |
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Post by mike on May 28, 2019 11:47:04 GMT -6
This prophecy is definitely the hardest one of them all, yeah, some say it’s easy, but I don’t believe so. It’s difficult to determine the original language and thought of Daniel on this scripture. I know I read someplace a while back that Isaac Newton spent a good portion of his time trying to figure this one out and couldnt. Dont know about you my friend but I think he was WAY more brilliant than I am or ever will be. Doesnt mean God cant use the foolish things of this world (Mike) to confound the wise (science) but he didnt get it, maybe I have to exercise caution when taking a position on it too. |
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Post by williaml on May 28, 2019 12:12:11 GMT -6
The people of Jesus did not destroy the city and the sanctuary. The Romans did. The text stated the people of the prince that is to come shall destroy.... The people were the followers or the blood or the lineage of the Prince that will come. .... Actually, as I've pointed out a number of times, the text actually says:
" …וְהָעִיר/and the city וְהַקֹּדֶשׁ/and the sanctuary/holy place יַשְׁחִית/he shall cause to ruin/destroy [Hiphil Imperfect 3ms] עַם/people נָגִיד/of a leader/commander הַבָּא/the one coming in [Qal Active Participle ms with ה prefix]…
“…and people of a leader/commander, the one coming in, he shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary.” …
Comment: This passage is tricky, and translations generally over-simplify it. One key is to correctly interpret the verb participle בָּא. Participles can be of three types, which must be determined by the context:
1) Attributive: a verb used as an adjective to modify a noun. This is how הַבָּא is most commonly interpreted: “the coming leader/prince.” However, Hebrew grammar requires that an attributive participle must match the noun it modifies – in this potential case, נָגִיד/leader – with both participle and noun having, or both not having, the definite article ה/“the.” That is not the case here: בָּא has a ה, but נָגִיד does not. So this cannot be an attributive participle.
2) Predicative: used as a verb. These participles never take the definite article, so הַבָּא cannot be a predicative participle.
3) Substantive: used as a noun: “one doing” something. That is the case here: this is a participle used as a stand-alone phrase, “the one coming in.”
The other tricky part of this phrase is the Hiphil verb יַשְׁחִית: literally, “he shall cause to ruin,” but typically shortened to “shall destroy.” The causation nature of Hiphil verbs is generally ignored in translations, because it requires the extra wordiness of the added “cause to.” Translators are seeking brevity wherever possible, so most Hiphil verbs are not fully expressed. But in this case, the added information is critical to the understanding of the context: the “nagyd/leader, the one coming in,” is the one who will cause his people to completely ruin/destroy the city and the sanctuary. This means that the coming leader must be actively responsible for the destruction in that era – either personally, or through the effect of his policy. He cannot be some leader who comes in the future of that era, as some commentators claim. See #2 below.
Context also comes into play here. The next two verbs in order, found in the first part of verse 27, are also Hiphil third person masculine verbs: they describe other acts of this ruler. These three consecutive Hiphil 3ms verbs tie both verses together. ..."
When people leave out the entire meaning of the Hebrew text, then even though they construct perfectly rational arguments, those arguments are all based on bad data. That is why this passage has been the source of so much conflict and misunderstanding.
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Post by williaml on May 28, 2019 12:27:41 GMT -6
So we have a natural break down. After 7 weeks the rebuilding was completed. After 7 + 62 weeks the 70th week started. It started in 26 ad and ended in 33 ad. In the very exact middle of that week, Jesus was baptized on the Day of Atonement.To summarize - from a historical perspective. There is no reason to invent a gap and there is only one edict that actually fits the years. No other timeframe (whether 483 or 490) fits the years. Also, the third division of time is also explainable. But, we will not be satisfied with a simple historical perspective. The people of Jesus did not destroy the city and the sanctuary. The Romans did. barbiosheepgirl Avatar May 23, 2019 17:57:20 GMT -6 barbiosheepgirl said: williaml, I did not post that the people of Messiah destroyed the temple. It says that the Romans did. If there is confusion it may be because it gives credit to God working thru the Romans to accomplish/fulfill the prophecy regarding the desolation of the city. My apologies if it is written in a confusing way.
There does seem to be some confusion here. My point was meant to show that if Jesus was baptized in the middle of the 70th week, then he must have died during the week that the sanctuary was destroyed, because that is the subject of the latter half of verse 27. You wrote that "After 7 + 62 weeks the 70th week started. ... There is no reason to invent a gap..." But if there was no gap between the 69th and 70th weeks, then the abominations of the destroyer, and the consummation poured out upon the desolator, must have occurred in the 30s A.D. What is your historical evidence that these things took place according to your timeline?
Daniel 9:27 “And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week; and in the midst/middle of the week, he shall cause to cease blood sacrifice and offering. And upon/over a wing/corner shall be abominations/idols of a destroyer, even until a (the) consummation/complete end so having been decreed shall be poured out upon a desolator.”
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 28, 2019 13:01:31 GMT -6
williaml , kjs seemed to be asking the same question and I gave a reply to him a few posts above. but, I will copy another way to show you how it comes across in my understanding: layman's understanding of what Gabriel is saying: verse 25: 7 weeks and 62 Weeks will happen, and not only is the 2nd physical temple built, but Messiah shows up.. even in times of distress the temple will be built again. verse 26: after the 62 week section happens, something happens to & with the Messiah, because of this, the physical temple will be destroyed (Jesus orally gives more details to his disciples) verse 27: Let me give you more detail about this final "week" , Daniel, the purpose behind messiah will be confirmed spiritually and physically yet abominations will continue (they will not accept this new covenant) and because of it, desolations are determined and will be poured out even unto the end of time verse 26 is 2 parts: explaining what happens to Messiah, and that the result is a (future) destruction. fast forward to where Jesus verbalizes this to His apostles about not one stone will be left standing.. etc etc. So Jesus Himself is stating and predicting the the fate of verse 26. This is why he weeps for Jerusalem.. I do not see this destruction to be in the 70th week. It is a promise of destruction because of what happens to Messiah. and Gabriel says it again with more detail in verse 27: in the midst of the Week (the 1 week) (the 7 and 62 and 1 week ) the confirmation of the promise (for this Redemption) will be confirmed. I have only recently said AMEN that the BAPTISM was part of this "cutting off". I believe this is another reason why we come into the details of the ministry of Christ at the Baptism...finishing with the Crucifixion. Water and Blood, the testifiers (see 1 John 4)
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Post by kjs on May 29, 2019 8:09:30 GMT -6
kjs , I still think you are not understanding what I am saying. Let me see if I can say it another way in how I understand Gabriel on the matter: verse 25: 7 weeks and 62 Weeks will happen, and not only is the 2nd physical temple built, but Messiah shows up.. even in times of distress the temple will be built again. verse 26: after the 62 week section happens, something happens to & with the Messiah, because of this, the physical temple will be destroyed (Jesus orally gives more details to his disciples) verse 27: Let me give you more detail about this final "week" , Daniel, the purpose behind messiah will be confirmed spiritually and physically yet abominations will continue (they will not accept this new covenant) and because of it, desolations are determined and will be poured out even unto the end of time I know why we are having this debate, an epiphany here I will share. This truly is a dual prophecy in more ways than one: verse 25: 7 weeks and 62 Weeks will happen, and not only is the 2nd physical temple built, but Messiah shows up.. even in times of distress the temple will be built again. The temple of God not made with hands will be/or IS being built again (Rev 12 Sign indicating the Tabernacling is about to commence), but as we so know, it will come to fruition in times of distress. As the final beast kingdom falls and Jesus takes over, the beast does not lay down lightly. God's Will will be done on this earth (as it is in heaven) starting with the building(glorification) of the Temple of the new covenant. I think we will see attempts for a physical 3rd temple, but, not because we are waiting on a gap of Daniel to be filfilled. It is because there is nothing new under the Sun. This is why I am careful and being stubborn here about modern day Judah and what we think we should see physically, when it has nothing to do with those physical things directly. As Paul says, set your mind on the Spirit! here is another verse about the confirmed covenant: 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. Baptism and Physical Death, and the Spirit testified: And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.the finishing of the testimony came with His blood 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe.
I will not say your "spiritualistic" approach here is 100% wrong ... Cause I have no way to prove it one way or another ......
However, I will say this -- it appears you "reaching and stretching" to make the text say something it clearly does not specifically say.
This entire Daniel 9 prophecy is about and for the people of Israel ... why because we are told specifically ... "Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city...."
These are NOT to be spiritualized away .... which you are doing here -- trying to say the "coming temple" is not physical....
NO -- it (this prophecy) stands ALONE -- the prophecy was given alone and it stands alone ... trying to incorporate other scripture into an existing prophecy --- is like you building a prophecy you wish to give.
The prophecy stands alone -- and since verse 27 is dependent upon the completing of verse 26 (ie destruction of Temple) --- since the Prince of the people who did the destruction is the one making covenant ....
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 29, 2019 8:56:34 GMT -6
Just want to ask, wasn't Daniel considered a prophet for the southern kingdom Judah? (the northern tribe had not returned, but I do know he included them in his prayer see Daniel 9:7 )
Is not the overall prophecy of Christ to be from the Line of David, Tribe of Judah? I ask this because of those elements they were mandated/asked to do in Daniel 9.
Are you suggesting that things like making an end of sin and finishing transgression etc were physical things that his people had to do themselves?
Reason I ask that is I kinda "read into" these elements as Christ fulfilling them, which is why they still "failed Faith" because they just could not wrap their heads around the Greater Story and get over their own selfish desires to be the one great nation with all enemies subdued etc thru a powerful ruler.
Now, kjs, I will say this: modern Judah is looking for a messiah still today. I believe they will receive what they are looking for, but not to unblind them, but to magnify the blindness until the End. It's all good tho because in the End, their stumbling around in their wilderness will result in some pretty sweet Wine. So I will not disagree that some singular political, charismatic, spiritual person or 2 of them will lead them further astray...for a little while. So maybe I am partially agreeing with you of the process to restore these stubborn peoples.
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Post by venge on May 29, 2019 10:26:31 GMT -6
The text stated the people of the prince that is to come shall destroy.... The people were the followers or the blood or the lineage of the Prince that will come. .... Actually, as I've pointed out a number of times, the text actually says:
" …וְהָעִיר/and the city וְהַקֹּדֶשׁ/and the sanctuary/holy place יַשְׁחִית/he shall cause to ruin/destroy [Hiphil Imperfect 3ms] עַם/people נָגִיד/of a leader/commander הַבָּא/the one coming in [Qal Active Participle ms with ה prefix]…
“…and people of a leader/commander, the one coming in, he shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary.” …
Comment: This passage is tricky, and translations generally over-simplify it. One key is to correctly interpret the verb participle בָּא. Participles can be of three types, which must be determined by the context:
1) Attributive: a verb used as an adjective to modify a noun. This is how הַבָּא is most commonly interpreted: “the coming leader/prince.” However, Hebrew grammar requires that an attributive participle must match the noun it modifies – in this potential case, נָגִיד/leader – with both participle and noun having, or both not having, the definite article ה/“the.” That is not the case here: בָּא has a ה, but נָגִיד does not. So this cannot be an attributive participle.
2) Predicative: used as a verb. These participles never take the definite article, so הַבָּא cannot be a predicative participle.
3) Substantive: used as a noun: “one doing” something. That is the case here: this is a participle used as a stand-alone phrase, “the one coming in.”
The other tricky part of this phrase is the Hiphil verb יַשְׁחִית: literally, “he shall cause to ruin,” but typically shortened to “shall destroy.” The causation nature of Hiphil verbs is generally ignored in translations, because it requires the extra wordiness of the added “cause to.” Translators are seeking brevity wherever possible, so most Hiphil verbs are not fully expressed. But in this case, the added information is critical to the understanding of the context: the “nagyd/leader, the one coming in,” is the one who will cause his people to completely ruin/destroy the city and the sanctuary. This means that the coming leader must be actively responsible for the destruction in that era – either personally, or through the effect of his policy. He cannot be some leader who comes in the future of that era, as some commentators claim. See #2 below.
Context also comes into play here. The next two verbs in order, found in the first part of verse 27, are also Hiphil third person masculine verbs: they describe other acts of this ruler. These three consecutive Hiphil 3ms verbs tie both verses together. ..."
When people leave out the entire meaning of the Hebrew text, then even though they construct perfectly rational arguments, those arguments are all based on bad data. That is why this passage has been the source of so much conflict and misunderstanding.
That is not how the inter linear reads. The way you typed it out has people in it yet you disregard that word and have “he”. Whereas the “he” should be “they”. With the inter linear, it reads: And the sanctuary destroy the people of the prince who is to come Or, and the sanctuary is destroyed by the people of the prince that is to come. Are you saying the inter linear is wrong? |
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Post by kjs on May 29, 2019 12:46:14 GMT -6
Just want to ask, wasn't Daniel considered a prophet for the southern kingdom Judah? (the northern tribe had not returned, but I do know he included them in his prayer see Daniel 9:7 ) Is not the overall prophecy of Christ to be from the Line of David, Tribe of Judah? I ask this because of those elements they were mandated/asked to do in Daniel 9. Are you suggesting that things like making an end of sin and finishing transgression etc were physical things that his people had to do themselves? Reason I ask that is I kinda "read into" these elements as Christ fulfilling them, which is why they still "failed Faith" because they just could not wrap their heads around the Greater Story and get over their own selfish desires to be the one great nation with all enemies subdued etc thru a powerful ruler. Now, kjs, I will say this: modern Judah is looking for a messiah still today. I believe they will receive what they are looking for, but not to unblind them, but to magnify the blindness until the End. It's all good tho because in the End, their stumbling around in their wilderness will result in some pretty sweet Wine. So I will not disagree that some singular political, charismatic, spiritual person or 2 of them will lead them further astray...for a little while. So maybe I am partially agreeing with you of the process to restore these stubborn peoples. barbiosheepgirl said: Just want to ask, wasn't Daniel considered a prophet for the southern kingdom Judah? (the northern tribe had not returned, but I do know he included them in his prayer see Daniel 9:7 )
Is not the overall prophecy of Christ to be from the Line of David, Tribe of Judah? I ask this because of those elements they were mandated/asked to do in Daniel 9.
Are you suggesting that things like making an end of sin and finishing transgression etc were physical things that his people had to do themselves?
I do not think so -- I suspect many did not consider Daniel a Prophet until well after his lifetime. Daniel was simply a noble boy (some suggest royal family)...
In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand... Then the king commanded Ashpenaz, the chief eunuch, to bring some of the people of Israel, both of the royal family and of the nobility, youths without blemish, handsome and skillful in all wisdom, endowed with knowledge, understanding learning, and competent to serve in the kings plan and to teach the the letters and language of the Chaldeans. Among these were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah of the tribe of Judah. (Dan 1:1-6)
When Daniel became Daniel the Prophet / writer of a book in the Bible is not really known ... Even today, there are many "scholars" which suggest there was no "Daniel" the writer -- but Rabi's that simply inserted myths and legends -- many years after all events were said to have occurred. My personal take is Jesus specifically says the Prophet Daniel .. therefore Daniel was real and a prophet.... but when did that happen?
Now, kjs, I will say this: modern Judah is looking for a messiah still today. I believe they will receive what they are looking for, but not to unblind them, but to magnify the blindness until the End. It's all good tho because in the End, their stumbling around in their wilderness will result in some pretty sweet Wine. So I will not disagree that some singular political, charismatic, spiritual person or 2 of them will lead them further astray...for a little while. So maybe I am partially agreeing with you of the process to restore these stubborn peoples.
Oh, I will agree with you here (to a certain extent  ) -- Modern day Israel -- is a bunch of Zionist -- that may or may not be of all the tribes of Israel. I tend to believe ALL the Tribes are represented -- but not all can state what tribe the are actually part of. (I do not believe in the Lost Tribe ... theory). But Yes, at least ALL Religious People currently in Israel -- are convinced the Messiah will soon appear ... unfortunately for them that person will be the Anti-Messiah.....
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Post by boraddict on May 29, 2019 19:39:21 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl , although Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah are contemporaries, Daniel is technically not considered to be a prophet of the OT. So if you consider Judah in 587 BC as having Jeremiah, and the captives that were taken to Babylon as having Ezekiel, the Babylonian court had Daniel. He arose in stature similar to Joseph of Egypt; having enormous power, but no offspring. It has been theorized that Daniel provided the knowledge and wealth by which the wise men of Jesus' day traveled to endow the Savior's family with financial support. Daniel was profoundly astute to his responsibility as a prophet of God and stands with Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John, and others as our latter day prophets. Thus, Daniel is a prophet to us, Ephraim, and perhaps Judah as well.
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Post by Gary on May 29, 2019 21:15:24 GMT -6
We know Jesus calls Daniel a prophet (e.g., Mt. 24:15). Curious how you make this distinction? The Tanakh places Daniel in the Ketuvim, but I think that's arbitrary since Jesus Himself calls him a prophet.
Jesus says the Law and Prophets were proclaimed until John... and then a shift occurs when Jesus shows up—the good news of the Kingdom (Lk. 16:16).
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Post by boraddict on May 30, 2019 1:04:48 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl , although Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah are contemporaries, Daniel is technically not considered to be a prophet of the OT. So if you consider Judah in 587 BC as having Jeremiah, and the captives that were taken to Babylon as having Ezekiel, the Babylonian court had Daniel. He arose in stature similar to Joseph of Egypt; having enormous power, but no offspring. It has been theorized that Daniel provided the knowledge and wealth by which the wise men of Jesus' day traveled to endow the Savior's family with financial support. Daniel was profoundly astute to his responsibility as a prophet of God and stands with Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John, and others as our latter day prophets. Thus, Daniel is a prophet to us, Ephraim, and perhaps Judah as well. Let me rephrase that. The compilers (Jews) of the Tanakh considered Daniel's work to be a writing as follows: "Ketuvim (the Writings): Jewish tradition (Talmud, Bava Batra 14b) states that the Writings were written by the authors whose names they bear: Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah. Ruth was written by Samuel; Lamentations was written by Jeremiah; Psalms was set in writing by King David; Chronicles was written by Ezra; Proverbs, Song of Songs and Kohellet (Ecclesiastes) were written by King Solomon; and Esther was written by Mordecai and Esther. The Writings were written between 900 BCE (Ruth) to the mid-300s BCE (Esther, Daniel, Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah). Concerning Job, the Talmud states more than one opinion as to when it was written." www.quora.com/How-were-the-39-books-of-the-old-testament-compiledAs such, Daniel appears to not have been included as either a major or minor prophet in "the Hebrew Bible is Called TaNaKh; as it is made of the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible, often referred to as “the law” but is actually the teaching), the Nevi’im (literally the prophets) and the Kethuvim (the writings, typically wisdom literature such as Proverbs, etc)" quora "And then when the Jews went back to Judea, there were probably new books that had been written (such as the book of Daniel or Esther) and those books were probably accepted but not with overwhelming approval. Then as new books started being written (Maccabees, Enoch, Sirach, etc) there became less and less of an ability to really verify which books were authentic and which weren’t. So many Jews probably studied these new books, considered them useful, but considered them a separate class of literature. And sometime by the year 100BCE, there was a consensus to keep the books that were the oldest and most authentic, excluding the newer books." quora The problem with the above explanation is that Jeremiah and Ezekiel were contemporaries of Daniel. So all three were from the same period but Daniel was classified as a writing whereas the other two were included as major prophets. So the "new book" explanation may apply to some Tanakh works but not Daniel. So it appears to me that he was not considered to be a prophet (by the Jews) in contrast to Jeremiah and Ezekiel. |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 30, 2019 7:50:44 GMT -6
regarding prophets: My bible has a chart that shows the prophets of the Northern Kingdom Israel, and the southern Kingdom Judah. That is what I am talking about. I get what you are saying boraddict. I just am saying that I believe the prophets seemed to have been necessary for each Kingdom back IN THE DAY. And yes a bunch of the prophecy is for modern day too, and beyond the existance of each Kingdom. And there is much to parallel to the New Covenant and today's situations, and some of it yet to actually be fulfilled the for the first time. In my bible the prophets of the Northern Kingdom Israel were those of Elijah, Elisha Jonah Amos and Hosea. Those for the southern kingdom Judah are those of Obadiah, Joel, Isaiah, Micah, Daniel, JEremiah, Ezekial and Zechariah to name just a few, as according to the bible I have, there are WAY more prophets for Judah than there were for the northern kingdom of Israel. I am just pointing out that the southern Kingdom Judah seemed to have more "issues" the LORD, thus a constant "talking to" thru "their prophets". I am saying that light-heartedly, with a wink and a nod.. |
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) -- Modern day Israel -- is a bunch of Zionist -- that may or may not be of all the tribes of Israel. I tend to believe ALL the Tribes are represented -- but not all can state what tribe the are actually part of. (I do not believe in the Lost Tribe ... theory).
