|
|
Post by boraddict on Nov 29, 2018 22:26:14 GMT -6
In my previous posting I explained my proof as to how Chapters 8 and 15 are sisters chapters, and that like Chapter 8, Chapter 15 was in the 7th seal. The two parts of these two chapters is "c" and "d" and they harmonize as follows:
Part c
8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Part d
15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
The four angels of Chapter 16 are included with the four angels of Chapter 8.
16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
One thing of worthwhile note is that Verses 8:3 and 15:2-4 harmonize (above). Since Verse 8:3 links to Verse 6:9-11 as the fulfillment of that promise; that their blood will be avenged, then the phrase "victory over the beast" (v. 15:2) means faithful unto death, and the censer being cast into the earth (v. 15:5) is the beginning action of that avenging.
Since the four angels (above) are associated with the destruction of 1/3rd, and the four angels of Verse 9:14:15 are associated with the destruction of the 1/3rd (v. 9:18), then the four angels of Chapter 8 are the four angels of Chapter 9. Since the four angels participation is in the second woe of Chapter 9, then the seventh seal (v. 8:1) begins at the second woe (v. 9:13). This means that the first woe of Chapter 9 occurs prior to the 7th seal, and that the second woe is the avenging action of the Savior.
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Nov 30, 2018 21:44:08 GMT -6
The marriage ceremony under construction | I. chronological groups | Ch 12 | Ch 4-5 | Ch 6-7 | Ch 8-11 |
| Ch 13-14 | Ch 15-16 | Ch 17-19 | Ch 20-11 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Chapter 12 sign
| vv. 12:1-5 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| The great city (U. S.) is destroyed
This destruction causes Babylon to fall
|
|
|
|
|
| vv. 13:1-5 |
| vv. 17:1-18:20 |
| Babylon is fallen
The beast overtakes Babylon via the plagues
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| a. kill with Death / conquering and to conquer
|
|
| vv, 6:1-2 |
|
|
|
|
|
| b. kill with sword / peace taken from the earth
|
|
| vv6:3-4 |
|
|
|
|
|
| c. kill with hunger / famine
|
|
| vv. 6:5-6 |
|
|
|
|
|
| d. overtake Babylon via the beasts (kingdoms) of earth
|
|
| vv. 6:7-8 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| vv. 6:9-7:17 |
|
|
|
|
|
| 7th seal is opened
|
|
|
| v. 8:1 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 1st Rapture
| v. 12:6 |
|
| v. 8:5 |
|
|
| v. 18:21 |
| saints have been enraptured thereby destroying Babylon
|
|
|
| vv. 8:6-13 |
| vv. 13:6-10 |
| vv. 18:22-24 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 1st woe
the beast uses brute force as a means of making
destroyed Babylon work
|
|
|
| vv. 9:1-12 |
| vv. 13:11-18 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 2nd woe (chiasmus center)
| vv. 12:7-13 |
|
| vv. 9:13-11:14 |
| vv. 14: |
| vv. 19:1-21 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 2nd Rapture
| vv. 12:17 | vv. 4:1-5:14 |
| vv. 11:15-18 |
|
| v. 15:1-4 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 3rd woe
|
|
|
| v. 11:19 |
|
| vv. 15:5-16:21 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
v. 4:1, v. 4:2, a throne set in heaven means a throne is set upon the earth v. 4:3 v. 4:4, A seat represents a position of authority. A good reference is in Verse 13:2 in which the godhead is represented as: the power (God the Father), the seat (the Savior), and the great authority (the Holy Ghost). Thus, in Verse 4:4 the 24 seats are 24 positions of authority. However, the number 24 appears to be a metaphorical number that represents another number. That is, does the 24 seats represent one seat that is the seat of the Savior. This would mean that the 24 elders is a metaphorical representation of the Savior. Additional evidence is Verse 19:12 in which the Savior has many crowns, and then in Verses 4:10-11 these many crowns are cast before the throne. Thus, the 24 elders who cast their crowns (v. 4:10-11) is the Savior of Verse 19:12. Then, in the larger context, the Savior who has these 24 crowns (v. 19:12) "casts" them before the throne (v. 4:10). The act of casting the crowns is similar to the act of casting the censer (v. 8:5). Thus, we again have the 24 crowns represented as one censer. Next, Verse 8:5 links to Verse 15:5 via 8:3 (the golden altar) linking to 15:2 (the sea of glass). That is, the golden altar is the sea of glass that is the earth where upon the population of the sanctified stand (v. 15:2). Thus, casting the censer/the crowns of the 24 elders is casting the judgment of God via the sanctified. That is, casting the justified is casting judgment via the followers of Christ to rule the earth. Thus, casting the crowns (v. 4:10) is an act of taking over the earth and this act corresponds to not only the first (v. 8:5) and second (v. 19:12) woes, but the third (v. 15:2) woe as well. Thus, Verse 4:10 pertains to all three woes in which the Savior uses his saints to take over the earth. . 4:6, Sea of glass = a sanctified population v. 15:2, Sea of glass mingled with fire = a sanctified population with the four beasts v. 8:3, Saints upon the golden altar = saints upon the celestial earth v. 18:21, This is the true destruction of Babylon verse. Prior to this, the angel simply described the vision that John had seen (vv. 17:7-18), and announced that Babylon had fallen (vv. 18:1-3). Thus, Babylon falls, and then Babylon is destroyed. The destruction of Babylon begins here at Verse 18:21 in which the angel "casts (the stone) into the sea." The stone is like a millstone for the purpose of grinding up Babylon. Why is Babylon to be ground up? Because it became the habitation of devils and fallen (v. 18:2-3). Since devils have taken over Babylon, and the stone that is to destroy devilish Babylon is from the angel, then the stone cast "into the sea" (v. 18:21) is the censer that is cast "into the earth" in Verse 8:5. This provides a hard link between Verses 18:21 and 8:5 and this is the rapture; the beginning of the attack upon devilish Babylon. |
|
|
|
Post by chisza on Dec 1, 2018 20:58:19 GMT -6
We know that the Book-of-Revelation is sequential because it has the Greek word "καὶ" which means "and" …that occurs 1157 times in 9912 Greek-Words comprising 11.6% of the Book-of-Revelation. A lot of those times… "καὶ" is used to mean something is happening next. . However the Book-of-Revelation does not have a Single-Chronological stream …but a Dual-Chronology or a Double-Timeline. Let me explain. . Just like the Gospels that show more than one vantage point of Jesus life and provide us with more than one witness of events as prescribed by... "Matthew 18v16 and 2 Corinthians 13v1" ...so too with the Book-of-Revelation. . Matthew 18v16 - KJV "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." . 2 Corinthians 13v1 - KJV "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." . There are other scriptures that point this out. . Deuteronomy 17v6 - KJV "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." . Deuteronomy 19v15 - KJV "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." . Genesis 41v32 - KJV "And for that the dream was *doubled* unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." . Likewise 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel are two accounts of the same events …and further 2 Chronicles, 1 Kings & 2 Kings are multiple accounts of the same events. Providing 2 witnesses of the events that took place in Israel between 588BC and 1082BC according to Bishop-Ussher’s-Timeline*. *.... link. So too the Book-of-Revelation has two accounts describing events in the Last-Days …not to mention the fact that the book has Two-Prophets known as the Two-Witnesses! . Essentially the Book-of-Revelation can be split down the middle with Chapters 1 to 11 describing one series of events from the 7 Churches to the end of Daniel’s 70th Week …and Chapters 12 to 22 describing a second series of events from the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week to the beginning of Eternity. . More specifically: Chapters 6 to 11 detail Daniel's 70th Week from one vantage point …and Chapters 12 to 19 also detail Daniel's 70th Week from another vantage point or perspective. . This means that the following Chapters directly match: . Chapter 6 - Tribulation Chapter 12 - Tribulation (Both: In the 1st Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 7 - 144,000 / Evidence-of-the-Rapture Chapter 14 - 144,000 / Event of the Rapture/Harvest (Both: In the Middle of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapters 8&9 - 6 Trumpets blown co-sequentially with Ch.16 Chapter 16 - 7 Bowls poured out co-sequentially with Ch.8&9 (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 11 - God's Wrath & Armageddon Chapter 19 - God's Wrath & Armageddon (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 10 - Pause or break to the Main-Events. Chapter 15 - Pause or break to the Main-Events. (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . This can be seen graphically here* and here^. *…. link (29-Aug-2016) ^…. link (4-Oct-2017) Note: FB denotes 'Facebook Post' I have also explained this concept in the following videos: 1. link (2-Dec-2014) 2. link (9-Oct-2013) . I can prove that Revelation is not one chronological stream by the following anachronism: . Revelation 10v7 - KJV “But in the days of the voice of the ...*seventh angel*... , when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be ...*finished*..., as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” . Revelation 11v15 - KJV “And the ...*seventh angel*.... sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” . Notice both verses clearly reveal that Revelation Chapter 11 is the end of a sequence of time. . Then read the following: . Revelation 16v10 - KJV “And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,” . …how can the Beast-Kingdom still be in existence if 5 chapters earlier all Kingdoms are “of his Christ”? . Further how can there be two endings? See Revelation 11v15 and Revelation 16v17. . Revelation 16v17 - KJV "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, ...*It is done*...." . Unless of course there are Two-Timelines! (or a Double-Timeline) . More here: linkGod Bless Mark. |
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Dec 1, 2018 21:30:37 GMT -6
Thank you chisza for your post.
You mention "This means that the following Chapters directly match:
.
Chapter 6 - Tribulation
Chapter 12 - Tribulation"
Can you explain this further?
Thanks
The reason I ask is to see the criteria that you are using to show the match.
|
|
rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
|
Post by rondonmonson on Dec 2, 2018 3:05:34 GMT -6
We know that the Book-of-Revelation is sequential because it has the Greek word "καὶ" which means "and" …that occurs 1157 times in 9912 Greek-Words comprising 11.6% of the Book-of-Revelation. A lot of those times… "καὶ" is used to mean something is happening next. . However the Book-of-Revelation does not have a Single-Chronological stream …but a Dual-Chronology or a Double-Timeline. Let me explain. . Just like the Gospels that show more than one vantage point of Jesus life and provide us with more than one witness of events as prescribed by... "Matthew 18v16 and 2 Corinthians 13v1" ...so too with the Book-of-Revelation. . Matthew 18v16 - KJV "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." . 2 Corinthians 13v1 - KJV "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." . There are other scriptures that point this out. . Deuteronomy 17v6 - KJV "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." . Deuteronomy 19v15 - KJV "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." . Genesis 41v32 - KJV "And for that the dream was *doubled* unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." . Likewise 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel are two accounts of the same events …and further 2 Chronicles, 1 Kings & 2 Kings are multiple accounts of the same events. Providing 2 witnesses of the events that took place in Israel between 588BC and 1082BC according to Bishop-Ussher’s-Timeline*. *.... link. So too the Book-of-Revelation has two accounts describing events in the Last-Days …not to mention the fact that the book has Two-Prophets known as the Two-Witnesses! . Essentially the Book-of-Revelation can be split down the middle with Chapters 1 to 11 describing one series of events from the 7 Churches to the end of Daniel’s 70th Week …and Chapters 12 to 22 describing a second series of events from the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week to the beginning of Eternity. . More specifically: Chapters 6 to 11 detail Daniel's 70th Week from one vantage point …and Chapters 12 to 19 also detail Daniel's 70th Week from another vantage point or perspective. . This means that the following Chapters directly match: . Chapter 6 - Tribulation Chapter 12 - Tribulation (Both: In the 1st Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 7 - 144,000 / Evidence-of-the-Rapture Chapter 14 - 144,000 / Event of the Rapture/Harvest (Both: In the Middle of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapters 8&9 - 6 Trumpets blown co-sequentially with Ch.16 Chapter 16 - 7 Bowls poured out co-sequentially with Ch.8&9 (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 11 - God's Wrath & Armageddon Chapter 19 - God's Wrath & Armageddon (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . Chapter 10 - Pause or break to the Main-Events. Chapter 15 - Pause or break to the Main-Events. (Both: In the 2nd Half of Daniel's 70th Week) . This can be seen graphically here* and here^. *…. link (29-Aug-2016) ^…. link (4-Oct-2017) Note: FB denotes 'Facebook Post' I have also explained this concept in the following videos: 1. link (2-Dec-2014) 2. link (9-Oct-2013) . I can prove that Revelation is not one chronological stream by the following anachronism: . Revelation 10v7 - KJV “But in the days of the voice of the ...*seventh angel*... , when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be ...*finished*..., as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” . Revelation 11v15 - KJV “And the ...*seventh angel*.... sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” . Notice both verses clearly reveal that Revelation Chapter 11 is the end of a sequence of time. . Then read the following: . Revelation 16v10 - KJV “And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,” . …how can the Beast-Kingdom still be in existence if 5 chapters earlier all Kingdoms are “of his Christ”? . Further how can there be two endings? See Revelation 11v15 and Revelation 16v17. . Revelation 16v17 - KJV "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, ...*It is done*...." . Unless of course there are Two-Timelines! (or a Double-Timeline) . More here: linkGod Bless Mark. Hello Mark, greetings. You are correct that Revelation is sequential in some ways, however it is not sequential from start to finish and how you have divided it up seems to be off kilter a bit. We can start in 6, but we need to at least cover the timeline in full. Rev. 1-3 is the Church Age. Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church/Bride in Heaven before the Seals have been opened. MIDDLE OF THE WEEK EVENT Rev. 6's opening of the First Seal is the first of God's Judgments, and we need to follow the order of THE JUDGMENTS to get the Chronological Order of Revelation. Rev. 6 Seals, Rev. 7 the Jews Flee Judea and God protects them from the COMING TRUMPET JUDGMENTS (hurt not the trees, seas or earth until they are protected = TRUMPET JUDGMENTS) In Rev. 7 we see the Bride who was Raptured as the Church but who thus married the Lamb by this point in time. Rev. 8, First four Trumpet Judgments, with three Woes left. Rev. 9, is two of the Woes. Rev. 15&16 are the Seven Vials (3rd Woe) being readied and then poured out. Rev. 20 the Judgment throne is next, Rev. 21 and 22 is the New Jerusalem etc. etc. Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are what's called Parenthetical Citations. Events that happened during other chapters as per the timing. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start when the first seal is opened. The Dragon (Satan) in Rev. chases the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days. The Beast Conquers Israel in Rev. 13 for 42 months.The Harlot (Rev. 17) is killed off by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast, there will be no worship of ANY GOD save the Beast, Islam and all religions must vanish. Then in Rev. 18 Babylon (World) gets hit by the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments over a 3.5 year period. Rev. 11 is the 2 Witnesses...........Rev. 14 is the Three Harvests...........Rev. 19 is the Church Marrying the Lamb and thus becoming the Bride in Heaven. |
|
|
|
Post by chisza on Dec 2, 2018 4:51:13 GMT -6
Thank you chisza for your post. You mention "This means that the following Chapters directly match: . Chapter 6 - Tribulation Chapter 12 - Tribulation" Can you explain this further? Thanks The reason I ask is to see the criteria that you are using to show the match. There are Three Criteria: The First Criteria is as follows: Rev.6v2 - KJV "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Rev.12v17 - KJV "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." In both situations Christians are being targeted (i.e. Tribulation as per Acts 14v22). The Second Criteria is that Revelation Chapter 10 and 11 both tell us that timeline is completed when the 7th Trumpet sounds. Revelation Chapter 12 must therefore be a different timeline (not sequential from Chapter 11). Rev.10v7 - KJV "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Rev.11v15 - KJV "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Further... for all the kingdoms to be under Christ's control ...would mean the 7th Trumpet occurs as Rev.19v11-21 is happening when Christ ends the Antichrist's Kingdom and all subsequent Kingdoms. The Third Criteria is that it has already happened: The Revelation 12 Heavenly Sign occurred on the 23 September 2017 the same day Prince Harry was at the Invictus Games Toronto with Melania Trump spruiking an RFID Bracelet in the crowd of the opening ceremony. Invictus means Unconquered! REF: j.mp/MelaniaHarry-1Prince Harry has the following Hebrew names that equal 666 and therefore qualify him as THE ANTICHRIST. הארי מאונטבטן וינדזור הארי ספנסר הנסיך הנרי אלברט דוד קפטן הנרי מוויילס מבט אנטיכריסט להארי נסיכ צרלס מ'וילס הארי 666 = Harry Mountbatten Windsor 666 = Harry Spencer 666 = Prince Henry Albert David 666 = Captain Henry of Wales 666 = Antichrist look to Harry 666 = Prince Charles of Wales 6x6x6 = Harry = 216 (Note: Harry's name is Henry Charles Albert David) (Note: All names are legitimate legal combinations) God Bless Mark. |
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Dec 2, 2018 10:19:14 GMT -6
Thank you chisza for your post. You mention "This means that the following Chapters directly match: . Chapter 6 - Tribulation Chapter 12 - Tribulation" Can you explain this further? Thanks The reason I ask is to see the criteria that you are using to show the match. There are Three Criteria: The First Criteria is as follows: Rev.6v2 - KJV "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Rev.12v17 - KJV "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." In both situations Christians are being targeted (i.e. Tribulation as per Acts 14v22). The Second Criteria is that Revelation Chapter 10 and 11 both tell us that timeline is completed when the 7th Trumpet sounds. Revelation Chapter 12 must therefore be a different timeline (not sequential from Chapter 11). Rev.10v7 - KJV "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Rev.11v15 - KJV "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Further... for all the kingdoms to be under Christ's control ...would mean the 7th Trumpet occurs as Rev.19v11-21 is happening when Christ ends the Antichrist's Kingdom and all subsequent Kingdoms. The Third Criteria is that it has already happened: The Revelation 12 Heavenly Sign occurred on the 23 September 2017 the same day Prince Harry was at the Invictus Games Toronto with Melania Trump spruiking an RFID Bracelet in the crowd of the opening ceremony. Invictus means Unconquered! Thank you chisza. I can see the link between Verses 6:2 and 12:17, but I do not see how linking these two verses constitutes that Chapters 6 and 12 "directly match" as was your assertion. Your second criteria reference was to Verses 10:7 and 11:15 and I do not see how two verses outside Chapters 6 and 12 show a direct match of Chapters 6 and 12. Your third criteria was the Chapter 12 sign linking to Prince Harry. Again, I do not see how this criteria shows a direct match of Chapters 6 and 12. Do you have any other evidence to prove your assertion that Chapters 6 and 12 directly match? That is, if Chapters 6 and 12 directly match then I would like to see the evidence; because, I do see a possibility wherein Chapters 6 and 12 "directly match." However, what you have shown so far does not prove your assertion. Another item that I would like to ask about is how you see Chapters 10 and 15 being a "Pause or break to the Main-Events." Because, as far as I can see, the two woes took place in Chapter 9 with angels 5 and 6. Then in Chapter 10 we see angel number 7 at Verse 10:1 and continuing into Chapter 11 as one of the two witnesses. That is, there is no pause between Chapters 10 and 11. Additionally, there is no pause between Chapters 15 and 16. Can you state the main events as you see them and how Chapters 10 and 15 are a pause to those main events? |
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 2, 2018 15:45:33 GMT -6
borradict said this:
This has nothing to do with chronology, but this comment I wanted to point out something or ask a question..
I am wondering if when God said He would never destroy the earth with a flood if that is actually not a correct understanding of the what He meant. Yes, there will not be a Noahdic flood like there was. However, is it possible that as it will be in the Days of Noah that His FLOOD is the gospel? I mean, the Gospel is preached from midheaven
Rev 14..6And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
this seems like a FLOOD of preaching happening... just tossing that out there. recall that there is a point in Revelation where EVERY creature above and below is singing praises to the Father
Rev 5 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
So instead of a flood to destroy, there is this flood effect that results in a huge corporate praise! leading to the first of the two reapings..
I dont have all your chronology analyzed, but am trying. Anyways, there is one more thing. This "angel" that has the rainbow.. is this the angel of chapter 10? someone once said that this is actually Jesus himself for a variety of reason, but the one that stands out to me is the voice and its characteristics..
1I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire; 2and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land; 3and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices.
just food for thought within the chronology discussion..
|
|
|
|
Post by chisza on Dec 2, 2018 18:23:38 GMT -6
Hi Friend(Bora-Addict),
.
I suppose they are reasons more than "Criteria". Another reason is the following verse:
.
Revelation 12v12 - KJV
"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
.
How can the events seen in Chapter 6 be considered as having "great wrath" unless they were occurring simultaneously with Chapter 12?
.
According to the Dual Chronology of Revelation; Daniel's 70th Week is thought to have the Devil's Wrath in the First-Half and God's Wrath in the Second-Half (directly after the Rapture). Rev.6v16&17 tells us God's Wrath begins after the 6th Seal. How can God's Wrath begin at this point if Satan's Wrath is yet to begin as specified in Rev.12v12?
.
You said "However, what you have shown so far does not prove your assertion.
"
.
Here is another point that supports my premise but may not prove my assertion definitively:
.
Matthew 24v29 - KJV
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
.
Revelation 6v12&13 - KJV
"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."
.
The details provided in Matthew 24v29 are the same as those in Rev.6v12&13 namely in regard to the Sun, Moon and Stars. Matthew 24v29 directly says: "after the Tribulation".
.
If Satan's time is short and he is attacking Christians (Rev.12v12) then this is Tribulation just as the first 6 Seals are Tribulation in Rev.Ch.6. as proven with Mat.24v29 & Rev.6v12&13 above.
.
You said: "Because, as far as I can see, the two woes took place in Chapter 9 with angels 5 and 6.
"
.
The Second woe does not finish until Chapter 11.
.
Rev.11v14 - KJV
"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."
.
The third woe being the 7th Trumpet.
.
You said: "Additionally, there is no pause between Chapters 15 and 16. Can you state the main events as you see them and how Chapters 10 and 15 are a pause to those main events?
"
.
When I say pause I would like to clarify that events do not stop but are slowed down (in the readers mind at least maybe not so in real life).
.
In Chapter 10 we are not told what the 7 thunders uttered; which is a pause from all the details otherwise being given.
In Chapter 15 the Saints are singing a song in heaven after the Rapture; which is a serenely pause.
.
Daniel Chapter 10 is similar in the way it pauses events and is very rarely quoted from. I know myself I rarely quote from Rev.Ch.10&15 because they lack a certain kinetic the other chapters possess.
.
You said: "Then in Chapter 10 we see angel number 7 at Verse 10:1 and continuing into Chapter 11 as one of the two witnesses.
"
.
I do not believe the 7th Angel can be one of the two witnesses because of Hebrews 9v27. As far as I am aware Angels cannot die, if they do then where is an example?
.
God Bless
Mark.
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Dec 2, 2018 18:27:04 GMT -6
borradict said this: This has nothing to do with chronology, but this comment I wanted to point out something or ask a question.. I am wondering if when God said He would never destroy the earth with a flood if that is actually not a correct understanding of the what He meant. Yes, there will not be a Noahdic flood like there was. However, is it possible that as it will be in the Days of Noah that His FLOOD is the gospel? I mean, the Gospel is preached from midheaven Rev 14..6And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
this seems like a FLOOD of preaching happening... just tossing that out there. recall that there is a point in Revelation where EVERY creature above and below is singing praises to the Father Rev 5 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
So instead of a flood to destroy, there is this flood effect that results in a huge corporate praise! leading to the first of the two reapings.. I dont have all your chronology analyzed, but am trying. Anyways, there is one more thing. This "angel" that has the rainbow.. is this the angel of chapter 10? someone once said that this is actually Jesus himself for a variety of reason, but the one that stands out to me is the voice and its characteristics.. 1I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire; 2and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land; 3and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices.just food for thought within the chronology discussion.. Hi Barb. You are like an eagle watching for the mice.  I threw out a hail Mary while looking at Verse 4:3 that states "he that sat (upon the throne) was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone." This seems to indicate that the " jasper" stone represents God the Father, and the " sardine" stone represents the Son. Having said that we then see "there was a rainbow about the throne" in sight like unto an " emerald" stone. I suppose these three stones represent the godhead. Then in Verse 10:1 we have an angel that is the seventh in the count from Verses 8:7-10:1. This angel however has the rainbow that could of course represent the Father, and his face was as it were the sun and this of course would represent the Son, and then this angel has feet as pillars of fire and this would represent the Holy Ghost. So you are correct about the rainbow not necessarily having anything to do with Noah's flood. It was a long shot in the analysis. It may take me some time to complete that chart. I tried it a few times before and gave up. But this time I feel confident that it will fall together. |
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Dec 2, 2018 19:51:40 GMT -6
Hi Friend(BoR-addict), I suppose they are reasons more than "Criteria". Another reason is the following verse: Revelation 12v12 - KJV "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." How can the events seen in Chapter 6 be considered as having "great wrath" unless they were occurring simultaneously with Chapter 12? According to the Dual Chronology of Revelation; Daniel's 70th Week is thought to have the Devil's Wrath in the First-Half and God's Wrath in the Second-Half (directly after the Rapture). Rev.6v16&17 tells us God's Wrath begins after the 6th Seal. How can God's Wrath begin at this point if Satan's Wrath is yet to begin as specified in Rev.12v12? You said "However, what you have shown so far does not prove your assertion." Here is another point that supports my premise but may not prove my assertion definitively: Matthew 24v29 - KJV "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Revelation 6v12&13 - KJV "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." The details provided in Matthew 24v29 are the same as those in Rev.6v12&13 namely in regard to the Sun, Moon and Stars. Matthew 24v29 directly says: "after the Tribulation". If Satan's time is short and he is attacking Christians (Rev.12v12) then this is Tribulation just as the first 6 Seals are Tribulation in Rev.Ch.6. as proven with Mat.24v29 & Rev.6v12&13 above. You said: "Because, as far as I can see, the two woes took place in Chapter 9 with angels 5 and 6." The Second woe does not finish until Chapter 11. Rev.11v14 - KJV "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." The third woe being the 7th Trumpet. You said: "Additionally, there is no pause between Chapters 15 and 16. Can you state the main events as you see them and how Chapters 10 and 15 are a pause to those main events?" When I say pause I would like to clarify that events do not stop but are slowed down (in the readers mind at least maybe not so in real life). In Chapter 10 we are not told what the 7 thunders uttered; which is a pause from all the details otherwise being given. In Chapter 15 the Saints are singing a song in heaven after the Rapture; which is a serenely pause. Daniel Chapter 10 is similar in the way it pauses events and is very rarely quoted from. I know myself I rarely quote from Rev.Ch.10&15 because they lack a certain kinetic the other chapters possess. You said: "Then in Chapter 10 we see angel number 7 at Verse 10:1 and continuing into Chapter 11 as one of the two witnesses." I do not believe the 7th Angel can be one of the two witnesses because of Hebrews 9v27. As far as I am aware Angels cannot die, if they do then where is an example? God Bless Thank you chisza. The statement that you posed originally was "This means that the following Chapters directly match: Chapter 6 - Tribulation, Chapter 12 - Tribulation" and I asked "to see the criteria that you are using to show the match." Then you provided the following three criteria: 1) the link between Verses 6:2 and 12:17
2) Verses 10:7 and 11:15
3) the Chapter 12 sign linking to Prince Harry
I think you would agree that these three are very weak proofs for your assertion; however, your last post provides these additional proofs: 4) Verse 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." "How can the events seen in Chapter 6 be considered as having "great wrath" unless they were occurring simultaneously with Chapter 12?"I like this reference because it shows a cause for rejoicing that links to the avenging of Verse 6:10. That is, when the saints of Verses 6:9-11 are avenged, then there is cause to rejoice. Thus, the rejoicing of Verse 12:12 pertains to the woe upon the "inhibitors of the earth and the sea." However, Verses 6:1-8 are not God's avenging upon the inhibitors of the earth and the sea and neither is Verses 12:1-11, 13-17. Thus, the only connection from Verse 12:12 to Chapter 6 is Verses 6:12-17. That is, the only connection between Chapters 6 and 12 using Verse 12:12 as proof of a direct match between Chapters 6 and 12 is as follows: a. Verses 6:1-11 and 12:1-11, no proof of a direct match between the chapters b. Verse 6:12-17 link to Verse 12:12, no proof of a direct match between the chapters c. Verses 12:13-17 no proof of a direct match between the chapters You said, "According to the Dual Chronology of Revelation; Daniel's 70th Week is thought to have the Devil's Wrath in the First-Half and God's Wrath in the Second-Half (directly after the Rapture). Rev.6v16&17 tells us God's Wrath begins after the 6th Seal. How can God's Wrath begin at this point if Satan's Wrath is yet to begin as specified in Rev.12v12?"
I do not subscribe to such a dual chronology as you have stated; and I do not agree that God's wrath begins in the 6th, but the 7th seal. 5) Matthew 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." You have linked this to Revelation 6:12-13, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."
You also assert that "The details provided in Matthew 24v29 are the same as those in Rev.6v12&13 namely in regard to the Sun, Moon and Stars."There is a lot going on in these verses the first of which is the sun and moon being darkened that does link to Verse 6:12. However, darkening also links to Verses 8:12, 16:10 and others. Thus, your point of Matthew 24:29 directly saying "after the Tribulation" does not constitute a direct match between Chapters 6 and 12 unless Chapters 8 and 16 and others directly match via the same criteria. That is, using Matthew 24:29 as proof of a direct match between Chapters 6 and 12 is weak because it simply provides a link to Verses 6:12-13 as well as 8:12, 16:10 and others. Also you said "If Satan's time is short and he is attacking Christians (Rev.12v12) then this is Tribulation just as the first 6 Seals are Tribulation in Rev.Ch.6. as proven with Mat.24v29 & Rev.6v12&13 above." My response is that Satan is not attacking Christians in Verse 12:12 but quite the opposite. Secondly, there is no proof that the first 6 seals are the tribulation; however, I do agree that they are. Third, there is a link between Matt. 24:29 and Rev. 6:12-13 but it is not Satan's attack but God's. The location of the woes is: 1st, Verses 9:1-12 2nd, Verses 9:13-11:14 3rd, Verses 11:15-19 You say, "In Chapter 10 we are not told what the 7 thunders uttered; which is a pause from all the details otherwise being given." Although I do not necessarily agree, it does not mean that all of Chapter 10 is a pause. As you can clearly see in the chronology of the verses above, the second woe begins at Verse 9:13 and ends at Verse 11:14. Thus, the seven thunders of Chapter 10 occur during the time of the second woe. You say "In Chapter 15 the Saints are singing a song in heaven after the Rapture; which is a serenely pause." There is no clear evidence that the saints are singing after the rapture, but after the victory over the beast meaning they gave their lives. Thus, it is not referencing the rapture per say but the sacrifices of their lives. With regard to the issue of angels never dying. Where is that stated in scripture. Your assertion on this point is that Hebrews 9:27 proves that angels do not die. However, that verse states that men die, it does not say that angels do not die. For example, lets say that a's die and b's die. You say that a's die because you have evidence, and b's do not die because there is no evidence. If God wants b's to die then they will. Thus, if God wants angels to die then they will. Otherwise please provide evidence to the contrary. |
|
|
|
Post by bondservant on Dec 3, 2018 7:45:35 GMT -6
I must say that I have been following this thread & the work here is just amazing. If I could pay the bills by just studying along with you guys as you pour as much as you have into this thread I would quit in a second.
You all have a special blessing upon you!
"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near." Revelation 1:3
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 4, 2018 19:01:42 GMT -6
boraddict , I am taking your thoughts on the firmament thing to heart. something occurred to me in conversations with others about the Day of the Lord, and the sun, moon not giving their light and the stars included. These events are not spoken of only in Revelation, but elsewhere, so these events to me can be literal based on Jesus Himself talking about it to his followers. John was seeing things Spiritually, but we have scripture all over the place as to the Day of the Lord, some from visions, and some strait from the Lord Himself. So I pondered your idea of this firmament being recreated. Let me see, you said this: this summer the smoke was soo heavy in our air that it seemed to reduce the light of the sun as if it were being eclipsed. We actually had cooler temps to go along with that. but, i digress... What causes the sun to darken and the moon not gives its light and the stars as well? we can suggest the sun is reduced in activity by God, thus causing the chain reaction of the moon losing light and some/most of those extra-planetary objects not reflecting the sun. OR, nuclear war and the fallout, OR mega volcanoes going off and fires coming about everywhere creating smoke, OR could it be that it is all due to the revealing of the Sons of Israel, the firstfruits harvest happening, and this CLOUD of WITNESSES is what "blocks" or darkens the sun, moon, and stars. Maybe there is more to be studied of this term "clouds"... I am being serious here. If the first part of the Kingdom of God taking over the current kingdom involves the glorification of the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain, this fills the "air" above the earth. We know this about the Kingdom of God: Rev 21:22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
This is what "darkens" the world that is apart from the Kingdom yet. The earth and it inhabitants not part of the kingdom are in this partial darkness, figuratively, but truly literally. This changes everything about everything in their world. Its not that the Kingdom of God is off somewhere by Jupiter, it is right there in the mist, their midst!!! The KINGDOM OF GOD is at hand!!!!! God renewing His earth for His Son as the Son takes over the entire earth, it begins with this cloud covering (of witnesses) which is physical, but oh so wonderful spiritual dimension for those glorified!
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Dec 4, 2018 20:39:03 GMT -6
boraddict , I am taking your thoughts on the firmament thing to heart. something occurred to me in conversations with others about the Day of the Lord, and the sun, moon not giving their light and the stars included. These events are not spoken of only in Revelation, but elsewhere, so these events to me can be literal based on Jesus Himself talking about it to his followers. John was seeing things Spiritually, but we have scripture all over the place as to the Day of the Lord, some from visions, and some strait from the Lord Himself. So I pondered your idea of this firmament being recreated. Let me see, you said this: this summer the smoke was soo heavy in our air that it seemed to reduce the light of the sun as if it were being eclipsed. We actually had cooler temps to go along with that. but, i digress... What causes the sun to darken and the moon not gives its light and the stars as well? we can suggest the sun is reduced in activity by God, thus causing the chain reaction of the moon losing light and some/most of those extra-planetary objects not reflecting the sun. OR, nuclear war and the fallout, OR mega volcanoes going off and fires coming about everywhere creating smoke, OR could it be that it is all due to the revealing of the Sons of Israel, the firstfruits harvest happening, and this CLOUD of WITNESSES is what "blocks" or darkens the sun, moon, and stars. Maybe there is more to be studied of this term "clouds"... I am being serious here. If the first part of the Kingdom of God taking over the current kingdom involves the glorification of the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain, this fills the "air" above the earth. We know this about the Kingdom of God: Rev 21:22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
This is what "darkens" the world that is apart from the Kingdom yet. The earth and it inhabitants not part of the kingdom are in this partial darkness, figuratively, but truly literally. This changes everything about everything in their world. Its not that the Kingdom of God is off somewhere by Jupiter, it is right there in the mist, their midst!!! The KINGDOM OF GOD is at hand!!!!! God renewing His earth for His Son as the Son takes over the entire earth, it begins with this cloud covering (of witnesses) which is physical, but oh so wonderful spiritual dimension for those glorified! Sometimes I think about how it all began for this Earth and its relationship to other heavenly bodies like Jupiter that is so massive, and the smaller planets. From their perspective the Earth is heaven. Once I had a dream about looking for the Savior and then realized that I was not on the Earth. Thus, I had to get to heaven that was the Earth. So in the end, we are in heaven if we are in Christ. For others, they might be in hell right here upon the Earth. I think the firmament was a water/mist dome that was over the planet. I think it was held in place via some electric/magnetic force emanating from the north and south poles. At some point the sun caused the firmament to fall. That is, Lord Jesus caused the sun to affect the Earth to cause the firmament to fall. That fall caused Noah's flood. Now the firmament will be restored in some like manner. Something like the orbit of the Earth changing to allow the water to be wicked into the atmosphere. Perhaps the earth is simply sling shot out into space, or perhaps the sun cools down. Something is going to happen and I doubt that it is man made nuclear war. Unless, it was man made nuclear war that caused the firmament to fall. For those people who are upon the earth and love Christ there are no worries. However, those who do not love Christ they will be in hell right here in heaven. I guess if we consider that Christ came to the earth and he is the water of life, and the water of life is taken up from the earth. Then the restoration of the firmament is symbolic of the rapture. Thus, the water came and Christ came, and Christ leaves and the water leaves. |
|
rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
|
Post by rondonmonson on Dec 5, 2018 12:45:26 GMT -6
boraddict , I am taking your thoughts on the firmament thing to heart. something occurred to me in conversations with others about the Day of the Lord, and the sun, moon not giving their light and the stars included. These events are not spoken of only in Revelation, but elsewhere, so these events to me can be literal based on Jesus Himself talking about it to his followers. John was seeing things Spiritually, but we have scripture all over the place as to the Day of the Lord, some from visions, and some strait from the Lord Himself. So I pondered your idea of this firmament being recreated. Let me see, you said this: this summer the smoke was soo heavy in our air that it seemed to reduce the light of the sun as if it were being eclipsed. We actually had cooler temps to go along with that. but, i digress... What causes the sun to darken and the moon not gives its light and the stars as well? we can suggest the sun is reduced in activity by God, thus causing the chain reaction of the moon losing light and some/most of those extra-planetary objects not reflecting the sun. OR, nuclear war and the fallout, OR mega volcanoes going off and fires coming about everywhere creating smoke, OR could it be that it is all due to the revealing of the Sons of Israel, the firstfruits harvest happening, and this CLOUD of WITNESSES is what "blocks" or darkens the sun, moon, and stars. Maybe there is more to be studied of this term "clouds"... I am being serious here. If the first part of the Kingdom of God taking over the current kingdom involves the glorification of the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain, this fills the "air" above the earth. We know this about the Kingdom of God: Rev 21:22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
This is what "darkens" the world that is apart from the Kingdom yet. The earth and it inhabitants not part of the kingdom are in this partial darkness, figuratively, but truly literally. This changes everything about everything in their world. Its not that the Kingdom of God is off somewhere by Jupiter, it is right there in the mist, their midst!!! The KINGDOM OF GOD is at hand!!!!! God renewing His earth for His Son as the Son takes over the entire earth, it begins with this cloud covering (of witnesses) which is physical, but oh so wonderful spiritual dimension for those glorified! Sometimes I think about how it all began for this Earth and its relationship to other heavenly bodies like Jupiter that is so massive, and the smaller planets. From their perspective the Earth is heaven. Once I had a dream about looking for the Savior and then realized that I was not on the Earth. Thus, I had to get to heaven that was the Earth. So in the end, we are in heaven if we are in Christ. For others, they might be in hell right here upon the Earth. I think the firmament was a water/mist dome that was over the planet. I think it was held in place via some electric/magnetic force emanating from the north and south poles. At some point the sun caused the firmament to fall. That is, Lord Jesus caused the sun to affect the Earth to cause the firmament to fall. That fall caused Noah's flood. Now the firmament will be restored in some like manner. Something like the orbit of the Earth changing to allow the water to be wicked into the atmosphere. Perhaps the earth is simply sling shot out into space, or perhaps the sun cools down. Something is going to happen and I doubt that it is man made nuclear war. Unless, it was man made nuclear war that caused the firmament to fall. For those people who are upon the earth and love Christ there are no worries. However, those who do not love Christ they will be in hell right here in heaven. I guess if we consider that Christ came to the earth and he is the water of life, and the water of life is taken up from the earth. Then the restoration of the firmament is symbolic of the rapture. Thus, the water came and Christ came, and Christ leaves and the water leaves. Hello Borradict, Greetings in Christ. The Firmament is indeed different in stages. We have the firmament where the stars reside, the firmament of our planet and the the 3rd Heaven where God resides. If we look at Genesis we see that God spoke WATER into existence before He created light, and there is a reason for this if we understand science. Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. You ever notice how space is much darker than our Atmosphere ? Light can only be seen by the eye via direct beam unless its REFLECTED thus we get "reflective light" that lights our world because we have a Biospheric Dome that holds in the moisture/WATER, and thus reflects the sun's light so that the earth can have this great reflective light that we have. Without the water or moisture reflecting the light our world would not light up in the manner it does. Taking all of that into consideration, now think of the possibilities why our Sun would NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT as per being reduced by 1/3 !! Maybe our Atmosphere losses some of that water !! Thus there is less reflectivity. This is a scientific fact by the way, all light must be reflected or else it's just a straight laser beam that can only be seen when in direct eyesight. I found all of this out while doing a "Creation blog" where I show that God created the universe over a 13.7 billion year period and the "First Day" is like 9.2 billion years in length. But that's another subject altogether. |
|
I threw out a hail Mary while looking at Verse 4:3 that states "he that sat (upon the throne) was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone." This seems to indicate that the "jasper" stone represents God the Father, and the "sardine" stone represents the Son. Having said that we then see "there was a rainbow about the throne" in sight like unto an "emerald" stone. I suppose these three stones represent the godhead. Then in Verse 10:1 we have an angel that is the seventh in the count from Verses 8:7-10:1. This angel however has the rainbow that could of course represent the Father, and his face was as it were the sun and this of course would represent the Son, and then this angel has feet as pillars of fire and this would represent the Holy Ghost. So you are correct about the rainbow not necessarily having anything to do with Noah's flood. It was a long shot in the analysis.
