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Post by mike on Dec 5, 2018 12:54:12 GMT -6
rondonmonson feel free to chime in with the billions of years theories in the Apologetics section
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 5, 2018 13:57:32 GMT -6
rondonmonson feel free to chime in with the billions of years theories in the Apologetics section Might just do that, is there a way I can insert one image ? I see above maybe it's a possibility, my blog on this has one image. It is not a must, but it kind of fills in the details. I went over all the posts in your thread over there, speed reading and one of your posts caught my attention, where you stated you used to believe the 14 billion year etc. etc. ideas because of like science and others etc. I try to bridge what I see as gaps in both theories/beliefs. I gotta go find my blog on this on the Wide Web. |
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Post by boraddict on Dec 5, 2018 22:10:18 GMT -6
rondonmonson feel free to chime in with the billions of years theories in the Apologetics section Might just do that, is there a way I can insert one image ? I see above maybe it's a possibility, my blog on this has one image. It is not a must, but it kind of fills in the details. I went over all the posts in your thread over there, speed reading and one of your posts caught my attention, where you stated you used to believe the 14 billion year etc. etc. ideas because of like science and others etc. I try to bridge what I see as gaps in both theories/beliefs. I gotta go find my blog on this on the Wide Web. Hi Rondon, I found the rapture in Verse 18:21. I noticed that the angel stating that Babylon had fallen (v. 18:2) is different than Babylon being destroyed (v. 18:21). Thus, fallen Babylon is simply a Babylon that is inhabited with devils. Thus, fallen Babylon is a Babylon that is taken over (v. 17:16). Notice that she is hated, and burned, but not destroyed. That is, until the angel casts the stone into the sea. That is, Babylon is not destroyed until the saints are taken on the rapture. I guess it is like a cancer that will continue to grow until it is cut out by the doctor. Thus, Babylon that is fallen to devils (v. 17:16, 18:2) is destroyed via the rapture. This is evidenced by the following chiasmus: v. 18:22, the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, (4 total) shall be heard no more at all in thee no craftsman of what so ever craft he be shall be found any more in thee
and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more in thee
v. 18:23, the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee
and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth.
for by thy sorceries (devils in Babylon) were all nations deceived The chiasmus shows the rapture; thus, the stone cast into the sea (v. 18:21) is the rapture that vacates the great men of the earth (v. 18:23) from devilish Babylon (v. 18:2). The stone that is cast into the sea is the angel that is sent to mankind. This should link to Verse 7:2 and/or Verse 9:1. I will revisit this later. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 6, 2018 13:01:35 GMT -6
Might just do that, is there a way I can insert one image ? I see above maybe it's a possibility, my blog on this has one image. It is not a must, but it kind of fills in the details. I went over all the posts in your thread over there, speed reading and one of your posts caught my attention, where you stated you used to believe the 14 billion year etc. etc. ideas because of like science and others etc. I try to bridge what I see as gaps in both theories/beliefs. I gotta go find my blog on this on the Wide Web. Hi Rondon, I found the rapture in Verse 18:21. I noticed that the angel stating that Babylon had fallen (v. 18:2) is different than Babylon being destroyed (v. 18:21). Thus, fallen Babylon is simply a Babylon that is inhabited with devils. Thus, fallen Babylon is a Babylon that is taken over (v. 17:16). Notice that she is hated, and burned, but not destroyed. That is, until the angel casts the stone into the sea. That is, Babylon is not destroyed until the saints are taken on the rapture. I guess it is like a cancer that will continue to grow until it is cut out by the doctor. Thus, Babylon that is fallen to devils (v. 17:16, 18:2) is destroyed via the rapture. This is evidenced by the following chiasmus: v. 18:22, the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, (4 total) shall be heard no more at all in thee no craftsman of what so ever craft he be shall be found any more in thee
and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more in thee
v. 18:23, the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee
and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee
for thy merchants were the great men of the earth.
for by thy sorceries (devils in Babylon) were all nations deceived The chiasmus shows the rapture; thus, the stone cast into the sea (v. 18:21) is the rapture that vacates the great men of the earth (v. 18:23) from devilish Babylon (v. 18:2). The stone that is cast into the sea is the angel that is sent to mankind. This should link to Verse 7:2 and/or Verse 9:1. I will revisit this later. Good afternoon Borradict, I see some of what you see in Rev. 18, but the Harlot and Babylon are two different entities. The WOMAN (Harlot) rides the BEAST (Babylon or governance under Satan). The reason the Harlot is killed off in Rev. 17:16 is because she is no longer needed. Now the Beast demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! There is no place for Islam, Buddhism, Witchcraft, Hinduism, etc. etc. Thus the Kings kill her off. The Kings ARE THE GOVERNMENT (Babylon) thus who kills Babylon off ? GOD'S PLAGUES.Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. So Babylon's coming demise is not the same as the Harlot, Babylon (Government Kings Rev. 17:16) kill off the Harlot (False Religions galore) and then God's Plagues are shown destroying Babylon (the whole world) via the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues. I agree with much of what you stated about verse 2 and verse 21 on however, good find. So Babylon is fallen means Satan is cast to earth and thus the Wrath of God has come upon the earth and verse 21 and 22 represents the Judgments of God, to which the the Church in verses 23 (candle shall shine no more in thee) has been Raptured to Heaven, and the voice of the BRIDEGROOM & BRIDE, will not be heard in Babylon (World) any longer...............Meaning the Church is in Heaven with Jesus during this time that Babylon is being pelted with these Plagues. The Stone into the sea casts the die so to speak, God is about to destroy Babylon (World Governance under Satan), then he says the Candle (7 Candlesticks are the 7 Churches) is no longer in Babylon, and neither is the Bridegroom or Bride. Great find sister. Good job.  |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 6, 2018 15:10:04 GMT -6
The areas that I have bolded are statements/thoughts that I think needs a little more clarification. Here are verses ch. 17 in Revelation in regards to your statements above. In regards to the statement of the woman being the harlot but not Babylon: 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” 6And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.
Anytime in scriptures when a name is mentioned to be on the forehead, that is an identifying name of whoever's forehead the name is on. Babylon is the harlot. They are the same. Harlots are immoral. It is also clarified who destroys Babylon later in this chapter: 15And he said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16“And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. >>> As we can see, the beast and the ten horns (kings) will make her desolate (destroy) and naked by exposing her falseness, lies, and evils. Her deceit of the nations and earth will be brought to light. Now it also says that they are all of one mind in this process and later in chapter 18 it goes into more detail. Onto chapter 18 1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. 2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. 3“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.” <<< The words passion, immorality and sensuality are words used to describe a harlot. Babylon is referenced to as a she. I do agree that Babylon is not only false religion, but most religions, even some that claim to be of Christianity. Such as denominations that teach salvation by works, prosperity churches, salvation through the church or similar, and pretty much any religion that leads people astray. The rise of Satanism, Free Masons, Illuminati, Roman Catholics and all those related with their evils being exposed left and right are all part of Mystery Babylon and her demise.
My computer is dying and I will post more on this shortly once it is charged. Plugged in now and continuing on  Ron says "The reason the Harlot is killed off in Rev. 17:16 is because she is no longer needed. Now the Beast demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !!" <<< I need help with this statement here please. The Harlot is destroyed because the truth of her is revealed and this is why she is hated by the ten kings. This is not a one moment in time process, but has been ongoing throughout history. Look at the crusades and severe persecution that has happened over the last 2000 years and is still happening today. The cruel and brutal way most of the apostles were killed (that is pointed out in vs. 20 below). Almost all of this is and has been done in the name of some form of religion. Kings and churches worked together in collecting taxes and ensuring dominion and control over the people of that kingdom under the name of God. It was downright brutal and all done in the name of religion under God and Jesus (Catholic and similar during the crusades and ext.). Where does it say the beast demands to be worshiped as a God? How else do we know this has been an ongoing process and will soon come to an end? 20“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her.”21Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer. 22“And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer; 23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery. 24“And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.” <<< These last couple of verses here also point out that the church was/is also under the influence and evils of MB.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 6, 2018 17:03:31 GMT -6
Hello cwoods, when I wrote my blog on Babylon I understood Rev. 17:18 to be the Angel telling John to not forget (remember) what he saw (his vision) which was "that great city", speaking of Babylon, and I like many others assumed it meant Rome until I was led in another direction. WHAT DID HE SEE ? Verses 3-6 is the vision in total, and John was shown FOUR DESCRIPTORS that described the Woman. Mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. These are what describes her. She was a Mystery, but as we see in verse 7 the Angels says he's about to explain the mystery unto us. Then Babylon the Great describes her running partner throughout history, the Kings/Rulers/Governments. She (False Religion) flourished in Babylon, there were 100's of gods and demi-god's in Babylon, Nimrod married his mother Semiramis, he was killed by Shem a man of God. Semiramis then stated she came from the moon as a virgin, had a son named Tammuz who came from the Sun rays, thus everyone of these false religions if you notice mimic the Virgin birth of Jesus, Satan knew there would have to be a virgin birth to purge us from our sins, its pointed out in Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. So that is why we have all the fake false gods set up with virgin births. This is the "MYSTERY RELIGION" that went underground because of Shem who threatened to wipe them out. Now that we know what the MYSTERY RELIGION was/is. This is how it was created/brought forth. But alas, this Mystery Religion spread amongst all the ancient empires of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece and Rome, this is what Paganism is. The stories may change, the name of the gods may change, but there are ALWAYS THREE CENTRAL FIGURES with a very specific structure. The Father god who is the Sun-god. The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess. The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN. Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus. Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis Rome had Jupiter, Dianna and Apollo. The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor. The Hindu's had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course. He knew the SEED would bruise his heel (Die and be Resurrected) and thus bruise the Serpent's head. So he knew there had to be a Virgin Birth and a death and resurrection to take away the sins of all mankind, so he set out to copy/imitate and deceive the masses with his MYSTERY RELIGION or with ALL FALSE RELIGION worldwide. So MYSTERY...........Babylon the Great.............Mother of Harlots.............Abominations of the Earth........all describe and explain one thing, False Religion. The Harlor Woman is False Religion, these are her four descriptors, she was a Mystery, associated with Babylon per her origins as we see above, she was the Mother of all False Religions as we see above, how the other false gods all "copied amd mimicked her" and of course serving false gods is an Abomination unto God, because he is a jealous God. These four descriptions describe FALSE RELIGION the Harlot Religion that co-mingles with the Babylon type governments down through the ages. One is Religious in Nature, the other is Civil Governance in nature, both are of Satan in that men and women serve not the true God but this evil world. Both are HARLOTS unto God, but THE HARLOT is All False Religion, and Babylon is All False Governance. Both can be and are AGAINST God Almighty. The Harlot rides the Beast. They are both profane in every instance, yet one is the Beast and the other is the Harlot. One is killed off by the other (see Rev. 17:16). Have you ever thought why we get a False Prophet ? He's a RELIGIOUS BEAST over Religion, no Islam will be allowed, no Hinduism or Buddhism will be allowed, no Judaism or Christianity, ALL PEOPLE must serve the Beast or else. So throughout the ages, for the most part these Government Beasts always allowed the locals to serve their own gods as long as he obeyed the Government Beasts (Rome/Greece/Babylon). But here in the end times, we also get a Religious Beast which will mandate the worship of the Anti-Christ. I don't think The Harlot is the RCC per se, I do agree there are false Christian Churches that are a part of the Harlot, but the Church of England also tortured people in days gone by, I think these had more to do with some Churches getting too close to the Government(s). But of course there are false Christian Churches, and many individuals in the RCC who are evil, but their congregation are IMHO, Christian people like the rest of us who profess Jesus as Lord and Savior. So I don't lump them in with those others. Rome received the Mortal Wound, she went from a Beast to a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Pax-Romanus was the perfect conveyor belt for the Gospel, all roads lead to Rome and the all/most subjects spoke Koine Greek. Think about it and when your computer is charged get back, I enjoy uplifting brothers and sisters and bouncing these Revelation understandings around. God Bless. |
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rondonmonson
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I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 6, 2018 17:34:54 GMT -6
The areas that I have bolded are statements/thoughts that I think needs a little more clarification. Here are verses ch. 17 in Revelation in regards to your statements above. In regards to the statement of the woman being the harlot but not Babylon: 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” 6And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.
Anytime in scriptures when a name is mentioned to be on the forehead, that is an identifying name of whoever's forehead the name is on. Babylon is the harlot. They are the same. Harlots are immoral. It is also clarified who destroys Babylon later in this chapter: 15And he said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16“And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. >>> As we can see, the beast and the ten horns (kings) will make her desolate (destroy) and naked by exposing her falseness, lies, and evils. Her deceit of the nations and earth will be brought to light. Now it also says that they are all of one mind in this process and later in chapter 18 it goes into more detail. Onto chapter 18 1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. 2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. 3“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.” <<< The words passion, immorality and sensuality are words used to describe a harlot. Babylon is referenced to as a she. I do agree that Babylon is not only false religion, but most religions, even some that claim to be of Christianity. Such as denominations that teach salvation by works, prosperity churches, salvation through the church or similar, and pretty much any religion that leads people astray. The rise of Satanism, Free Masons, Illuminati, Roman Catholics and all those related with their evils being exposed left and right are all part of Mystery Babylon and her demise.
My computer is dying and I will post more on this shortly once it is charged. Plugged in now and continuing on Bondservant says "The reason the Harlot is killed off in Rev. 17:16 is because she is no longer needed. Now the Beast demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !!" <<< I need help with this statement here please. The Harlot is destroyed because the truth of her is revealed and this is why she is hated by the ten kings. This is not a one moment in time process, but has been ongoing throughout history. Look at the crusades and severe persecution that has happened over the last 2000 years and is still happening today. The cruel and brutal way most of the apostles were killed (that is pointed out in vs. 20 below). Almost all of this is and has been done in the name of some form of religion. Kings and churches worked together in collecting taxes and ensuring dominion and control over the people of that kingdom under the name of God. It was downright brutal and all done in the name of religion under God and Jesus (Catholic and similar during the crusades and ext.). Where does it say the beast demands to be worshiped as a God? How else do we know this has been an ongoing process and will soon come to an end? 20“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her.”21Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer. 22“And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer; 23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery. 24“And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.” <<< These last couple of verses here also point out that the church was/is also under the influence and evils of MB.
To finish off the last point you added...... The Harlot is destroyed because the Beasts doesn't want to share his glory with any other religions. Before Satan only desired to confuse the masses, now he desires the worship of one man who is like unto him. The 1/3 of all men he slays will be mostly Islamic peoples, the Christians will have been Raptured already. This man knows the Islamists will not worship him as god, thus he's going to wipe them out and bring the to heel. This is God's Judgment on False Religion, the Harlot. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 6, 2018 21:55:23 GMT -6
OThe Harlot is destroyed because the Beasts doesn't want to share his glory with any other religions. (I disagree here because the Harlot sitting on the beast is showing her dominion, control, and influence on the beast she is riding. I do not see in scriptures where the beast doesn’t to share glory. The word used for sitting in Greek is interesting and the only time used the way it is in this verse and along with sitting it means enthroned, to dwell or reside in.) more that she Before Satan only desired to confuse the masses, now he desires the worship of one man who is like unto him. The 1/3 of all men he slays will be mostly Islamic peoples (please back statements like this with scriptures if you know of them. Also what leads you to this conclusion? Asking with genuine curiosity. I am not aware of any related verses and I regularly study and research Revelation. Not an expert by any means.), the Christians will have been Raptured already. This man (who is this man, the beast?)knows the Islamists will not worship him as god, thus he's going to wipe them out and bring the to heel. This is God's Judgment on False Religion, the Harlot.
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Post by boraddict on Dec 6, 2018 22:07:38 GMT -6
Beautiful Chapter 18, the chapter that keeps on giving.
Okay, so the items of interest in Chapter 18 are:
1) the angel announces that Babylon "is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils" (vv. 18:1-2)
2) the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies (v. 18:3)
3) Lord Jesus calls for his people to come out of her (Babylon) to not be partakers of her sins and plagues (v. 18:4-7)
4) The plagues are: 1) death, 2) mourning, 3) famine, and 4) she (Babylon) shall be utterly burned with fire (v. 18:8). Links to the plagues of Verse 6:8 brought upon the earth by the beast.
5) the kings of the earth see the "smoke of her (Babylon's) burning, and they lament for her. Thus, they see evidence of the 4th plague and have the second plague upon them (v. 18:9)
6) the merchants of the earth also see the smoke of her (Babylon's) burning and mourn for her (v. 18:10-19)
7) However, God has done this to Babylon and thereby avenged his saints (18:20). God did this avenging/burning in Verse 17:17. He told his people to come out of her (v. 18:4) and they saw the smoke of her burning and lamented and mourned.
8) The angel sends an angel (the stone) that is like a great millstone (v. 18:21) and this is the rapture that destroys Babylon
9) the saints are gone (vv. 18:22-24)
For me the verses show that Babylon is converted from a capitalist economic system into a mark of the beast economic system (v. 13:16) within which the saints could no longer participate. Afterwords, the angel sends his angel and as I have previously explained these are the two servants of Chapter 11 that are the angel and John. Thus, the angel sends John (v. 18:21). We know that John has the keys of authority over "hell and death" (v. 1:18) and that hell and death are the beast and false prophet as described in Verse 6:8. Thus, the plagues in that verse are witnessed as explained in Verses 18:8-19. That is, after the beast overtakes the economic system, then John comes to do a work that includes the rapture of the saints of God. "They," as in the angel and John (v. 12:6) take these saints for 1,260 days. Thus, fallen Babylon in Chapter 6 became destroyed Babylon of the first woe in Chapter 9. That is, in my opinion, Verse 9:1 is a rapture verse since this is where John exercises the keys of his authority.
So, in my opinion, the first woe is destroyed Babylon in which the beast is forcefully trying to make the mark of the beast economic system work, but it will not work. Because, John who has authority over the beast and his false prophet, has taken the saints of God, and Babylon has progressed from fallen Babylon into destroyed Babylon (v. 19:2). This is the tribulation, that the beast is trying to force the mark-of-the-beast economic system into becoming a successful economic system; but it will not work.
As I said, the saints are with the angel and John during the reign of the beast that is 3.5 years (v. 12:6); and this period of time is the first woe (vv. 9:1-12). The second woe is where the angel takes the Savior's army and destroys the beast (vv. 9:13-21, 12:7-13, 19:17-21, 14:14-16). By the way, this seems to indicate that the rapture is also somewhere in Verses 13:7-10.
After the second woe then there is a second rapture. This is evidenced in Chapter 12 wherein the first rapture is at Verse 12:6 and the second rapture is at Verse 12:14. I believe these two raptures are each 3.5 years in duration for a total of seven years of rapture. That is, the 7 years of tribulation have a counter part that is 7 years of rapture.
Then we see the Savior and his saints returning to the earth and so forth.
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 7, 2018 11:27:16 GMT -6
Hello cwoods, when I wrote my blog on Babylon I understood Rev. 17:18 to be the Angel telling John to not forget (remember) what he saw (his vision) which was "that great city", speaking of Babylon, and I like many others assumed it meant Rome until I was led in another direction. WHAT DID HE SEE ? Verses 3-6 is the vision in total, and John was shown FOUR DESCRIPTORS that described the Woman. Mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. These are what describes her. She was a Mystery, but as we see in verse 7 the Angels says he's about to explain the mystery unto us. Then Babylon the Great describes her running partner throughout history, the Kings/Rulers/Governments. She (False Religion) flourished in Babylon, there were 100's of gods and demi-god's in Babylon, Nimrod married his mother Semiramis, he was killed by Shem a man of God. Semiramis then stated she came from the moon as a virgin, had a son named Tammuz who came from the Sun rays, thus everyone of these false religions if you notice mimic the Virgin birth of Jesus, Satan knew there would have to be a virgin birth to purge us from our sins, its pointed out in Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. So that is why we have all the fake false gods set up with virgin births. This is the "MYSTERY RELIGION" that went underground because of Shem who threatened to wipe them out. Now that we know what the MYSTERY RELIGION was/is. This is how it was created/brought forth. But alas, this Mystery Religion spread amongst all the ancient empires of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece and Rome, this is what Paganism is. The stories may change, the name of the gods may change, but there are ALWAYS THREE CENTRAL FIGURES with a very specific structure. The Father god who is the Sun-god. The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess. The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN. Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus. Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis Rome had Jupiter, Dianna and Apollo. The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor. The Hindu's had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course. He knew the SEED would bruise his heel (Die and be Resurrected) and thus bruise the Serpent's head. So he knew there had to be a Virgin Birth and a death and resurrection to take away the sins of all mankind, so he set out to copy/imitate and deceive the masses with his MYSTERY RELIGION or with ALL FALSE RELIGION worldwide. So MYSTERY...........Babylon the Great.............Mother of Harlots.............Abominations of the Earth........all describe and explain one thing, False Religion. The Harlor Woman is False Religion, these are her four descriptors, she was a Mystery, associated with Babylon per her origins as we see above, she was the Mother of all False Religions as we see above, how the other false gods all "copied amd mimicked her" and of course serving false gods is an Abomination unto God, because he is a jealous God. These four descriptions describe FALSE RELIGION the Harlot Religion that co-mingles with the Babylon type governments down through the ages. One is Religious in Nature, the other is Civil Governance in nature, both are of Satan in that men and women serve not the true God but this evil world. I see what you are saying above in a sense. However I am going to take this one step further and much deeper because it goes far beyond particular gods/religions and their beginnings and creation by man. There is more of a root evil and abomination than it simply being false religion and this is the main thing that MB represents and why in particular she has such influence on kings, governments, and of those in power.
Yes a very large part if it is certainly any and all false religion. These are an abomination to God indeed, but the bigger and deeper abomination that drives pretty much all of this has it's roots all the way to Adam and Eve. What is the root mindset of all false and pagan religions, the drive, the why, the influence and domination that usually comes about from it? It is the root of all evil and is described here: "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into destruction." Pride which is the root of many many evils, is the beast that was, is not, and is about to come out and go into destruction. Pride is not a physical thing, but has always been here (was) and will continue to come until God in His truth and glory reveals He is the only way, the truth and the light and leads it to it's destruction.
What do 99% of false religions base themselves on? Works of humans and their ability to keep up with the rules, the works, the list, the prayers, the mindset, the domination, the control, and the fear. Worship the false god this many times a day or you are not worthy, say these particular prayers and chants, or you will fail and face eternal damnation and so on, don't touch pork or you will be banished from paradise. All based on MANS ability to keep up and be "perfect & saved" in their false religion. Even the making of physical idols/gods are from pride. Look at what WE made to worship! Look at this beautiful statue, WE created with our own hands to pray and give gifts to. It wasn't so much that Nimrod created false religion to be the root of MB and all false religions, it was his mindset, which was all about him and his power, glory, and might. It is clarified here "13These have one mind, and they shall give up their power and authority to the beast." that the mindset of pride and man's abilities of themselves rules over and controls them. This is no different today and we see it all the time.
"The Father god who is the Sun-god.
The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess.
The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN.
Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz.
Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus.
Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis
Rome had Jupiter, Dianna and Apollo.
The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor.
The Hindu's had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna
Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course."
^^^ The similarities here are yes certainly a deception, but also a mockery to the true Christ that was to come. Remember during many of these points in history, God had not revealed himself to much of the world. The children of Israel who were rescued from Egypt were to show the world the true and living God. God rained down plague after plague upon Egypt and at the same time hardened Pharaoh's heart so he would continue to disobey and be stubborn so God could continue to plague Egypt. Had he not hardened Pharaoh's heart, the Pharaoh would have given in much sooner. God purpose of this was to reveal himself to the world by bringing Egypt to its knees and rescuing the Israelites from their bondage. Egypt was the uber example and hub at that time of Human works to create false gods, practices, and abilities of themselves. And like majority of false religions their pagan gods demanded various works and practices for them to achieve higher and better types of paradise once they died. They were vain and proud of their accomplishments towards the gods they created and worshiped and used this as a means to control others through their pagan worship. Both are HARLOTS unto God, but THE HARLOT is All False Religion, and Babylon is All False Governance. Both can be and are AGAINST God Almighty. The Harlot rides the Beast. They are both profane in every instance, yet one is the Beast and the other is the Harlot. One is killed off by the other (see Rev. 17:16). Have you ever thought why we get a False Prophet ? He's a RELIGIOUS BEAST over Religion, no Islam will be allowed, no Hinduism or Buddhism will be allowed, no Judaism or Christianity, ALL PEOPLE must serve the Beast or else. So throughout the ages, for the most part these Government Beasts always allowed the locals to serve their own gods as long as he obeyed the Government Beasts (Rome/Greece/Babylon). But here in the end times, we also get a Religious Beast which will mandate the worship of the Anti-Christ. ^^^^This may be where we agree to disagree in the above paragraph. It is not particular religions that will not be allowed or taken over and no new dominating religion is going to be created for all to worship. The beast is not a physical man, but a mindset as I described above. There is not going to be a worldwide dominating evil religion. With the Romans, Greeks, and Persians, individual worship was often NOT allowed. All three of these kingdoms demanded worship of their rulers as many of them believed themselves to be godlike. The book of Daniel is good example of this and how it varied with different rulers. At some points people could worship whatever god they chose, or if the king demanded worship of himself, then the people had to worship him or die/face the consequences. Greece and Rome did the same. That was the whole reason many of the apostles and newer Christians were killed, because they would not worship and bow down to the Roman Emperor. Because at the end of chapter 17, we do not see a one world evil religion take over, but the Lamb and His are victorious:
14These (MB & kingdoms) will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those with Him are called and chosen and faithful.”
15And he says to me, “The waters that you saw where the prostitute sits are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16And the ten horns that you saw, and the beast, these will hate the prostitute, and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh, and will burn her with fire. 17For God has put into their hearts to accomplish His purpose, and to do one purpose, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. 18And the woman whom you saw is the great city, having kingship over the kings of the earth.”
The ten horns/kings on the beast and MB make war with the Lamb on a continual basis. This has been ongoing for the last 2000 years. We also see this is to accomplish the purpose of God, not the anti christ or Satan desires. That is very clear above. Those under the control and burden of false religion, idols, will come to understand the truth instead, that Jesus is the living waters of life and the only way which is why the blood of the Lamb overcomes.
We are seeing this happen right now and are in amazing times to be alive. God is revealing MB and making her naked (exposed) right now. The pedophillia of the RCC priest is just a part of MB. Lets ask ourselves though, that while yes God is revealing the evils happening behind closed doors from those who by mans standards and rules are "most holy" and supposedly directly ordained by Christ himself to be in the high positions of the RCC, what is he really revealing here? Man's ways fail. Man's religions, pride, and arrogance fail and produce evil. We are fallen and He is shining the light on the failure of our reliance and pride in our works to achieve salvation and holiness. Praise God for his light and truth! The response? People in droves are going away from the RCC. People are seeing the darkness and deception there. God is opening their eyes to its falseness and paganism. This is the nakedness of MB, being exposed! There are many many other evils of mankind being brought to light besides the RCC.
We will continue to see more and more of this. Understanding the pride tied in all of this, opens up discernment and understanding of the chronological order of not only Revelation, but many many areas of the bible. The idol worship of Israel, the priest hiding behind closed doors doing their evil deeds thinking they could get away from it, the pharisees and sadducees being hypocrites all comes down to one thing, our trust and faith in ourselves and our abilities, not Gods. I don't think The Harlot is the RCC per se, I do agree there are false Christian Churches that are a part of the Harlot, but the Church of England also tortured people in days gone by, I think these had more to do with some Churches getting too close to the Government(s). But of course there are false Christian Churches, and many individuals in the RCC who are evil, but their congregation are IMHO, Christian people like the rest of us who profess Jesus as Lord and Savior. So I don't lump them in with those others. Rome received the Mortal Wound, she went from a Beast to a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Pax-Romanus was the perfect conveyor belt for the Gospel, all roads lead to Rome and the all/most subjects spoke Koine Greek. Think about it and when your computer is charged get back, I enjoy uplifting brothers and sisters and bouncing these Revelation understandings around. God Bless. Hi Ron, Thank you for your replies. I did not have time yesterday to respond to this post of yours. My replies are directly in the quotes above in color. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 8, 2018 18:31:12 GMT -6
Hi Ron, Thank you for your replies. I did not have time yesterday to respond to this post of yours. My replies are directly in the quotes above in color. God/Jesus is pointing to her beginning per organization, of course men served false gods from time immemorial, but in Babylon it flourished. Jesus told us that he spoke the us/Disciples in parables so the world would see but not understand, hear and not understand. We are told about this Harlot so we can understand, but the world will not see it. Again, there is no Mystery Babylon, the Angel stated in verse 7, "Come, I will show you the Mystery of the Harlot and the Beast she rides" or vice versa. We were explained the Mystery, which is just one of four descriptions. As per the Beast that WAS...IS NOT....YET IS, that is Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast who is designated with NO CROWNS. He was placed in the pit by God and will be freed at the 1st Woe. False Religion gets Judged by God in that she gets wiped out by the Anti-Christ whose heart is so puffed up he can stand no other gods being worshiped, thus he destroys all the false religions one by one. Islam will be wiped out by him. If you were this great tactician and you wanted to rule the world and be worshiped as god what would be your first move ? Take out the fanatical Muslims who you know will never abide, they won't even let other peoples beliefs abide today !! Much less bow down to a man as god !! He knows this, he will destroy Islam first. The Harlot is thus JUDGED and wiped out. Read Rev. 17:17, it says God placed it in THEIR HEARTS to do his will. In other words, God understands the hearts of men, and he judged all false religions that killed off his prophets and saints down through the ages by giving them a tyrant who desires to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD at their expense. These are only clues to who the Harlot is, we are given FOUR DESCRIPTIONS imprinted on her head. MYSTERY, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. It's only important in that it describes her to a tee whee we a understand who she is, ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME. Rev. 13 says different brother, all must worship the Image of THE BEAST (a Man) or die. As per past Beast Kingdoms for the most part it was just the opposite, people were allowed to worship their own gods. The Persians allowed the Jews to go back and rebuild their Temple. The Babylonians captured the Jews and took them to Babylon, thus they wanted them to serve their Gods, the Greeks, besides Antiochus, also allowed the worship of one's own gods as dd Rome for the most part until it interfered with their understanding of Pax-Romanus. There has been no Beast for the last 2000 years and can be no Beast until Israel is Conquered again, that is why the Beast rules for 42 months. The MORTAL WOUND meant the Beast was dead for the Church Age Period. The Church can not be overcome by the gates of hell. The RCC has nothing to do with any of this IMHO. Its people who are looking at this from an angle that I think starts out on a wrong path. I have seen this for 30 years, so I have heard of it. Its not Islam nor is it the RCC, both versions are IMHO, off track, its a man who like the other Gentile Beasts comes to power in a Geo-political fashion, only this last Beast both comes to power and FALLS or is defeated and cast into hell whereas all the other Beast Kingdoms were passed from King to King until someone lost dominion, this MAN will be the only King thus he is THE BEAST. |
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Post by boraddict on Dec 9, 2018 11:17:51 GMT -6
The following is my general breakdown of the BoR as of 12/9/18.
1) The identification of the chronological-chapter-groups provides a means for harmonizing the Book of Revelation. These groups in chiasmus form are as follows:
ch 1-3
ch 4-5
ch 6-7
ch 8-11
ch 12 (the BoR chiasmus center)
ch 13-14
ch 15-16
ch 17-19
ch 20-22
2) The key to unlocking the harmonization of the BoR is Chapter 12 because this chapter represents the entire 7 years of tribulation in chronological sequence as follows:
vv. 12:1-5, pre-rapture
v. 12:6, the 1st rapture
vv. 12:7-13, the war in heaven that metaphorically means the war upon the earth
v. 12:14, the 2nd rapture
vv. 12:15-17, post rapture
3) Therefore, the entire BoR can be placed into one of these five groups at the BoR chiasmus center.
ch 1-3
ch 4-5
ch 6-7
ch 8-11
vv. 12:1-5, pre-rapture
v. 12:6, the 1st rapture
vv. 12:7-13, the war in heaven that metaphorically means the war upon the earth
v. 12:14, the 2nd rapture
vv. 12:15-17, post rapture
ch 13-14
ch 15-16
ch 17-19
ch 20-22
4) So basically at the beginning of the 7 years a war breaks out between good and evil (vv. 12:1-5). Then God takes his saints at two separate and distinct raptures (vv. 12:6, 14) that are interrupted by the intensification of the war (vv. 12:7-13). Last of all evil rages (vv. 12:15-17), and as we know this ends with the total destruction of man from the earth.
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Post by Natalie on Dec 9, 2018 12:53:01 GMT -6
Just a question...if everything ends with a total destruction of man, then who populates the Millennial Kingdom? (Sorry if you cover that somewhere; I haven't read everything on this thread. ) |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 9, 2018 13:59:15 GMT -6
Just a question...if everything ends with a total destruction of man, then who populates the Millennial Kingdom? (Sorry if you cover that somewhere; I haven't read everything on this thread. ) This is how one has to think to understand Prophecies and Revelation/riddles of God. Great question. The Wheat is Israel, God deals with them at a different time than the Church but not in a different way, just like Abraham believed and was thus considered righteous, likewise the Church or us Christians also are redeemed by faith alone. Israel can't have faith in full now because God says in Romans ch 11 that He blinded them IN PART until the fullness of the Gentiles [Church] be come in. So only a few Jews (IN PART) can come to Christ along the way, (Peter, Paul, Messianic Jews are few and far in between). They thus repent during the 70th week. So after the Rapture God sends the Two-witnesses to turn Israel (Malachi 4:5-6) back to God. A 1/3 repent and 2/3 do not (Zechariah ch. 13). The Jews who repent thus read Jesus' Gospels, they thus read Matthew 24 and know to flee Judea when they see th AoD. They thus stay on earth with the evil men of the world (TARES) until the end. Jesus returns with the Church/Bride in Rev. 19, sets up his Kingdom on earth and Tabernacles/Dwells with Israel for 1000 years. The Jews are the Wheat, they will repopulate the earth, but other nations will also have a few offspring left it seems, they bring gifts unto Christ yearly. So there will be some men who escape through wit, planning, whatever, maybe they go into the jungles in Africa, or maybe the Anti-Christ is just too busy trying to kill all the Jews etc. etc. All we know is there will be survivors besides the Jews. The Martyrs (only the Martyrs who refuse the Mark of the Beast) will serve with Christ ON EARTH for 1000 years, in Glorious bodies. The Bride I think returns to Heaven to help ready the New Jerusalem, thus when it is lowered it is called THE BRIDE !! The Bride is in New Jerusalem. (This is just a strong belief I have based on Rev. 20:4 where it specifically says those that die a Martyr, who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast will rule with Christ 1000 years on earth............if it was the WHOLE Church why not just say that? Instead Jesus/John was very specific. ) Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Church judges): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Living a 1000 years tells us they receive a Glorious body. Jesus rules from Israel who get REDEEMED during the 70th week, which means they are still human beings. The Church/Bride are seen in Heaven with Christ in Rev. 4:4, 5:9, 7:9-17 and of course in Rev. 19. I do not think we (Bride) remain on earth, but I do think the Martyrs of Rev. 20:4 remain on earth. I can't prove this 100 percent, but Rev. 20:4 goes out of the way to specify that only the Martyrs who died for Christ, during the Tribulation period of the Beast, serve with him on earth for 1000 years. JMHO. Hope that helps a little sister. God Bless. |
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Post by Natalie on Dec 9, 2018 14:40:13 GMT -6
That's more or less how I see it happening, too. But that's not what Bora says.
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