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Post by boraddict on Oct 15, 2020 10:42:33 GMT -6
The reason that I mentioned the LDS in my previous posting is because they are all, as a group, on the same page. Their false prophet Nelson (as well as past church leaders) instruct their people as to what the scriptures say. If someone of that church openly disagrees then they are disciplined via church sanctions of various sorts and then in the end excommunication. However, we as watchers of the Savior are in our own right free, free, free, to seek the truth.
If we were alive at the time of Moses' and consigned our association to God through Moses (Deut. 5:4-5) then we would not have our one-on-one relationship with Christ. That is perhaps the biggest mistake that those people made and they apparently bound their children and subsequent generations to that confinement. However, we are not bound to that old arrangement and do not need a prophet between ourselves and God. The prophets (OT) and apostles (NT) to guide us to Christ but they do not stand as our intermediaries. Secondly, we individually determine the parameters within which we associate with God. And that is the beauty of the coming events that we individually must be at our very best. We can not defer to Moses, Nelson, Snuffer, or anyone else. No, we individually are accountable to Christ and that is the requirement (IMO) for qualification (Rev. 16:15).
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Post by boraddict on Oct 16, 2020 8:58:46 GMT -6
I just noticed the connection between Rev. 16:15 and the Parable of the 10 virgins (Matt. 25:1-13).
Verse 16:15, (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)
The Parable, “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour."
1) “Behold, I am coming like a thief!" links to “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,"
2) "Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on," links to 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept."
The garments on links to the to the oil with their lamps. Thus, the oil is to the lamps as girded is to the garments. Again, having oil for the lamps is like having garments on.
3) "that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!” links to 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour."
Being naked and exposed is to not have the garments and this equates to not having the oil in the lamps. Thus, the virgins not having oil are those who do not have their garments on. They have let their association with Christ lapse. Perhaps they are not repentant and fully restored at the time of his coming. They do not have on the full armor of Christ being caught up into the wiles of the world.
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Post by venge on Oct 17, 2020 8:34:47 GMT -6
boraddict , Just offering how I see it. When Christ appears, the guests go with him to his marriage, then the door is shut. Now, In Rev 19, I believe we have the same thing happen here. Look at what it says: The marriage has just come then, not before. If the marriage just came then, after he begins to reign (vs 6), then according to above, it is when the guests go with him and the door is shut. That would be a possible placement for the rapture at that event. Notice when this takes place too via Rev 19...after Babylon is destroyed but before the wedding feast. The other interesting part of the parable of the 10 virgins is that Christ comes at midnight. It is a late hour, MOST people are asleep yet Christ tells us to remain awake. At midnight, the world is darkened. This implies spiritual wickedness and most people are blind to it. Those that carry oil have wisdom and faith in Christ to see past this wickedness. Christ doesnt come when the sun is shining and things are bright outside. It shows the 10 wise virgins will be raptured out at a late hour in the world's worst time of darkness and that most will shamefully be spiritually asleep.
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Post by boraddict on Oct 17, 2020 16:19:37 GMT -6
venge , I thought about you when I considered the parable's association to Rev. 16:15. Yes, I knew that you knew the same scenario as myself.  This speaks volumes about the timeline. So let's consider the placement of Babylon's fall with respect to the 7 years. 1) Babylon falls at the mid-point 2) The rapture takes place after Babylon's fall but also at or near the midpoint 3) The marriage takes place after the rapture, sometime after the midpoint This seems to suggest that the fall of Babylon as shown in Rev. 17:16 is immediately followed by the saints being called out to the rapture. Please notice that Rev 18:2 states the fall of Babylon and Rev. 18:4 states the call for the saints to come out of her (the rapture). Secondly, that the call (Rev. 18:4) is noted in the parable as the cry (Matt. 25:6); and, since the cry is at midnight and Babylon's fall is at the mid point, then midnight is the midpoint. venge , this shows that the saints are not called to the rapture until just after the midpoint. Further, since the beginning of the Hebrew day is at sundown then sundown to midnight represent the the first 3.5 years, 2) midnight represents the midpoint, 3) midnight to sunup represents the second 3.5 years. Thus, the 7 years are represented as the darkness (night time) as you have pointed out. The above supports a mid point rapture.
However, Chapter 12 supports two raptures at Rev. 12:6, 14. I am somewhat convinced that the first one (v. 12:6) is the rapture that everyone is looking for; that is prior to the war as shown in the type at Rev. 12:7-10. This 1st rapture is pre-tribulation; the second rapture event (v. 12:14) would be the one listed above. It seems that the era after the war (Rev. 12:11-17) is expanded upon in Chapter 13 and then Chapters 14-16 wrap up the ending of this set of chapters (12-16). The above seems to support that Christ's reign starts at the mid-point.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Oct 25, 2020 11:43:29 GMT -6
rondonmonson , venge , rondonmonson , venge , yardstick , boraddict , mike , I see I was tagged in this thread (Thanks Venge) I did not read through the whole thing, but do have a couple of comments. It is clear according to scripture that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth, and because He indwells us, we have access to that truth in Christ. The Spirit leads us into the truth of Christ. There is a chain of command here so to speak: The Father discolses to or with Christ, Christ discolses to the Spirit and the Spirit discloses to those whom He indwells. These passages indicate that the Spirit guides us into all truth, teaches us all things. Does this mean we know everything God knows? Let's consider what Paul says in his letter to the Corinthians: According to Paul, we (believers) have some degree of knowledge which he calls partial; describing it as seeing in a dimly lit mirror. We have the truth of God reflected onto us via the Holy Spirit, but we are not perfect vessels of the truth, we are mortal fallable human beings of flesh, therefore the truth is not fully known to us. Is this a contradiction of the passages in John? No! What Christ discloses to us is the truth. One of the most important ways He discloses this truth is in His word, the scriptures which we have recieved. Peter writes specifically regarding prophecy: The prophecy he is talking about here are those contained within the scriptures, not a "prophetic word" as we often hear about today. The prophecies of scripture were disclosed to men moved by the Holy Spirit who then disclosed them to us in the scriptures they wrote. We are then left to try to understand those prophecies. Prophecy by nature is difficult to understand, we see and know it only in part, because God only gave us part of it, that is all He chose to disclose to us. He didn't give us the whole thing, only bits and pieices. Therefore we only have a partial understanding. It's like being given a 5000 piece puzzle, without seeing what the finished picture looks like, and we are only given 2,352 peices to work with. SInce we don't have the full picture we have to look at the pieces we are given (in scripture) and based on those we can speculate what the rest of the puzzle looks like and how the pieces may fit together. Do you grasp what I am saying here? To claim that others are not being led by the Spirit to understand is incorrect. I know without a doubt the Holy Spirit led me on my journey into study of prophecy, but I would never claim that I have nailed it in my interpretation of it, that I have it all completely figured out. I do not know for certain if my conclusions and understanding are correct. That doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit failed me in my search for answers. It means that there is only so much He wishes to disclose right now. The rest is speculation. Only hindsight will determine if my insights were truly inspired by the Spirit or if they were just the best efforts of a true follower wishing to understand things that could not be fully understood at that given time. Speculating isn't wrong, it can help us understand other truths in scripture as we work to understand and as we search scripture in that pursuit we learn more, we understand more, we gain insight and knowledge. What is wrong is to claim that I have arrived at complete understanding and my speculations are truth, and that everyone else hasn't arrived and therefore their conclusions must be wrong and they must not be truly following Christ. I would add that saying that our speculations are 100 % Spirit driven is dangerous business, because that means we are claiming that our words are on par with the word of God. We are claiming to speak directly for God. That is one heavy burden to bear and I know for myself that is one I do not wish to bear nor would I ever attempt to. One day when we are perfected in the resurrection, we will fully know as we are now fully known. But today we have to humble ourselves and be satisfied with only knowing in part. Firstly, you never see me calling out other peoples beliefs, even if I think is way out there or all over the place, in my Church I would do this, not on this site, its not my place, its not my message board. So, when others claim this, its just my understandings that others disagree with that makes them think this, I don't think your ideas threaten my understanding, it is what it is. So, put it out there and let it stand for itself. And I will put my understanding from God out there and let it stand. I don't spend my time worrying about others beliefs or non beliefs tbh. What the Holy Spirit teaches me will stand on its on accord. All men are supposed to be taught by the Holy Spirit but when we have 100's of "THEORIES" on what Babylon is, on what the Harlot is etc. that tells me that many people not called the Prophecy are trying to be a HAND instead of what they may be called to be which may be a FOOT. I see this all the time, its not God giving us 100 different understandings is it? Satan's job is to confuse, of course. I see it when I see it, just because I don't call it out, means its not my place. In my church I would call it out. On message boards, I just deliver God's word and let others do what they do. The difference is we are now in the END TIMES, we are living 2500 years ago or 2000 years ago, God stated that in the END TIMES He would pour out His Spirit and give dreams/visions/UNDERSTANDINGS unto us. Gabriel told us all these things would be bound up until the very end times, which is why I asked God to start with why we have not gotten all of these understandings. We are supposed to know all these things that were once bound, in these END TIMES. So, in reality, in these end times, we should be able to understand these things, because God has stated He wants us t know these things in these end times. That was my whole point in my prayer unto God, why is the Church so confused on these things, you promised to reveal them in these END TIMES. Thus I got the , "Ron, you guys already know it all" from the Holy Spirit. So, we can know it all in these end times because its Gods desire for us to know these things in the end. God did not desire for Daniel to understand 2500 years ago, nor even John 2000 years ago, but He desires us to understand, the reason I know this is SCRIPTURES: Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. The above is Gabriel telling Daniel that we will understand these things during the END TIMES (now) and where it says many will go to and fro, I think it means over the Holy Bible, back and forth, and thus knowledge will increase, but I think its the computer that gives us the ability to go over things at a moments notice that helps us gain this knowledge, we can study far easier than people even 100 years ago. We can juxtapose all things in a moments notice via a computer. I kinda answered this in the beginning, but no where do I say others are wrong. Me being led by the Holy Spirit is not me "OVERTLY SAYING" you or anyone else is wrong. I testify to what the Holy Spirit teaches me. I don't say others are wrong, if people want to waste energy on that its on them. That kind of thinking would end al debates, because everyone would in essence be calling everyone else out as WRONG. I don't see it like that. I see it as people trying to get me to say this is my opinion, so they can then offer up, YOU SEE, its just an opinion, here is my opinion, its just as good as his. If its my opinion, I will say so, if its of the Holy Spirit I will say so, but I shant be pigeonholed into saying something I was taught by the HS is my opinion, that would be an UNTRUTH. We disagree on how much the Holy Spirit wants to teach us at this point in time. I see these as end times, as evidenced by Israel rebirth, thus the HS wants to show us ALL THINGS, by His very testimony in Daniel 12, as I point out above. As per only hindsight, I can't agree with that. Its like someone telling Paul, you will only know in hindsight if what you taught was correct, to be honest, I don't get that thought process. We can now 100 percent if something is of the Holy Spirit, it means He convicts you of it being TRUTH. Now, I might think something 30 years, and never be convicted by the HS that its TRUTH, but after 30 years and ONE DAY if the HS shows you its TRUTH, its TRUTH, it will never change. God Bless. My moms been in the Hospital, sorry not to reply on so long. Probably wont be back for awhile, shes in pretty bad shape. |
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Post by rt on Oct 26, 2020 18:15:52 GMT -6
rondonmonson, Sorry to hear your mother is in the hospital and not doing well, I pray that whatever is going on that she will recover. As for the rest, we shal agree to disagree.
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Post by boraddict on Nov 12, 2020 8:34:25 GMT -6
I was visiting with a friend yesterday and she was at the 4th seal. To which I shared that I thought it interesting that the 5th seal lines up in several places throughout the book as follows:
1) in the seals of Chapters 6-8
2) in the trumpets of Chapters 8-11
3) in the angels/bowls of Chapters 12-16
4) in the fall of Babylon of Chapters 17-19
After considering the above arrangement I wondered about these relationships in the larger chiasmus of the book as follows:
Chapters 1-3 the introduction
Chapters 6-8 the seals
Chapters 8-11 the trumpets
Chapters 12-16 the angels/bowls
Chapters 17-19 the fall of Babylon
Chapters 20-22 the ending
From the above there are three pairs being Chapters 1-3 with 20-22, Chapters 6-8 with 17-19, and Chapters 8-11 with 12-16.
The chapter 6-8/17-19 grouping shares the 5th seal at Rev. 6:9-11, 19:1-9 and the Chapter 8-11/12-16 grouping shares the 5th trumpet that is the response to the 5th seal at Rev. 9:1-12, Rev. 12:12-17 with expansions at Chapters 13 and 14. (IMO)
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Post by venge on Nov 12, 2020 11:48:11 GMT -6
I was visiting with a friend yesterday and she was at the 4th seal. To which I shared that I thought it interesting that the 5th seal lines up in several places throughout the book as follows: 1) in the seals of Chapters 6-8 2) in the trumpets of Chapters 8-11 3) in the angels/bowls of Chapters 12-16 4) in the fall of Babylon of Chapters 17-19 After considering the above arrangement I wondered about these relationships in the larger chiasmus of the book as follows: Chapters 1-3 the introduction Chapters 6-8 the seals
Chapters 8-11 the trumpets
Chapters 12-16 the angels/bowls
Chapters 17-19 the fall of Babylon
Chapters 20-22 the ending From the above there are three pairs being Chapters 1-3 with 20-22, Chapters 6-8 with 17-19, and Chapters 8-11 with 12-16. The chapter 6-8/17-19 grouping shares the 5th seal at Rev. 6:9-11, 19:1-9 and the Chapter 8-11/12-16 grouping shares the 5th trumpet that is the response to the 5th seal at Rev. 9:1-12, Rev. 12:12-17 with expansions at Chapters 13 and 14. (IMO) Have you considered that it may be open? That War, disease, famine and wild beast are not only in the 4 seals, but they existed as God's 4 sore judgments that he has used throughout history. Not just that, but they are now used by Christ after he ascends and breaks them. We have had all 4 since Christ ascended in 70 AD, to World War 1 and 2 and even Covid19. In Matthew 24:6 Christ tells us regarding these: They will happen on earth, it is not the end. They must come to pass...as Covid19 must come to pass...do not worry...it is not the end yet. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Nov 24, 2020 3:42:45 GMT -6
rondonmonson , Sorry to hear your mother is in the hospital and not doing well, I pray that whatever is going on that she will recover. As for the rest, we shal agree to disagree. She's has recovered but is having to have someone come out twice a week training her via a walking therapy. She's 86, her oldest sister lived to 89, she has another sister who is 105 now, LOL, so if she could lose a few pounds I think she could carry on a bit, she loves those Soft Drinks !! Thanks for the prayers, they put her on oxygen, that seems to have helped her a bit. God Bless. |
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This speaks volumes about the timeline. So let's consider the placement of Babylon's fall with respect to the 7 years.
