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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Nov 29, 2018 18:15:49 GMT -6
oh man, do I have some crazy oddities of my own life and a few others so very close to me!
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Post by yardstick on Nov 29, 2018 18:49:39 GMT -6
Hi Mike, I dusted off a few math muscles that haven't been used since before you were born. They are now dust free but very flabby from lack of use! I did some calculating and just considering in two factors, the odds of your random universe theory being the power behind this coincidence is about one in 4.5 billion. And there are other factors that would make this look tiny if figured in. What humbles and amazes me is the precision God employed to answer the prayer of one little person. Not a big deal to the Lord of the Universe but it was a big deal to me. Perhaps yardstick will take the bait and do some math. Perhaps even there could be a new thread where people could share the "impossible" things God has done in their lives and we can all calculate the odds. I think the calculation (estimate) has already been done on the boards... |
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Post by bondservant on Dec 3, 2018 9:27:21 GMT -6
Hi Mike, I dusted off a few math muscles that haven't been used since before you were born. They are now dust free but very flabby from lack of use! I did some calculating and just considering in two factors, the odds of your random universe theory being the power behind this coincidence is about one in 4.5 billion. And there are other factors that would make this look tiny if figured in. What humbles and amazes me is the precision God employed to answer the prayer of one little person. Not a big deal to the Lord of the Universe but it was a big deal to me. Perhaps yardstick will take the bait and do some math. Perhaps even there could be a new thread where people could share the "impossible" things God has done in their lives and we can all calculate the odds. Your math is better than mine. I am leaning more towards 1:4.5 bazillion  |
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bas
New Member
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Post by bas on Dec 3, 2018 10:05:47 GMT -6
Here's an interesting video on the topic of fossils and the speed at which they can form:
I found this very thought provoking.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 5, 2018 14:28:54 GMT -6
I see the Earth as 4.5 billions years old and the Universe as 13.7 billion years old.
I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to to think God changed the laws of nature to think the universe is 6000 years old. Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think it's a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language now has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point. YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So let's take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from God's POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time. ![]() ![]() SEEMS I CAN'T GET THE IMAGE HERE....Google WMAP Map timeline.
![]() So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.
The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off. The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there. On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects. On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian. P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER). ========================================================================================== Remember, this is an old blog, so its not pointed at anyone in particular, it's just my understanding, in a very limited capacity via the tools of reasoning God gave me.
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Post by Natalie on Dec 5, 2018 16:01:58 GMT -6
Decided to ask a different question first. See next post. |
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Post by Natalie on Dec 5, 2018 16:16:26 GMT -6
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 5, 2018 21:35:14 GMT -6
Hi, I have been off around town, sorry I missed you first question. As per this question. God did not impart His Spirit into man until 6000 years ago when He created Adam and Eve and placed into them His Spirit which is in His likeness. No animals had the knowledge of good and evil. Thus sin had to come into mankind when Adam and Eve listened to Satan the serpent. But Satan sinned/betrayed God in heaven long ago, and since God is eternal, and He is eternal, then if He was Holy, and He is, there always had to be an opposite spirit to the Holy Spirit, thus there was always a Spirit of evil, hence Satan only hearkened unto this rebellious call. I think the anti-christ spirit is this evil spirit that has always been, its anti-christ and anti-God. So this evil has always been, you can't have a Holy being without an unholy entity, Lucifer heeded this rebellious temptation, and got 1/3 of the Angels to rebel with him. Then Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, where Sin first stained man's soul. We were created in God's Image..........once we gave our birthright to Satan this world was brought forth in Satan's Image, we can see it via murder, lusts, hate, greed, envy, lies, thievery, jealousy, anger, etc. etc. When we are washed in the blood we transition from the Sin Nature we have to the Image of Christ, which was how we were created in the first place (Man that is). So basically sin entered into Adam and Eve, no other creatures were imparted with the knowledge of Good and Evil before them therefore they knew not sin. |
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Post by mike on Dec 6, 2018 8:50:19 GMT -6
Rondonmonson - The way I am understanding what you've posited is that the scripture was written incorrectly and needs refining to fit scientific view of billions and billions of years. The Lord knew full well the words that Moses would have at his disposal at the time he instructed him on the creation account.
Now I have heard that the appearance of time from our perspective is skewed and perhaps due to gravity and distance the 'time' itself can be stretched (I am waaaaaaayyyyy over-simplifying) but to redefine the Word isnt the right approach in my opinion. So it is very possible in that the entire universe is in fact only 6000 yrs old however, from the perspective we hold it appears much older. Also you are making an assumption on the speed of light being consistent
*from Day 1
*measurable in both directions
I have heard that it is possible the speed of light slows with distance, time & gravity. We do know that gravity can bend light, so it is very possible it affects it in other ways, but we may not know that for certain. Can we prove that it does slow? No. Can we prove it doesnt? No. In fact we cant prove that the speed of light is the same in two directions. Dr Jason Lisle discusses this topic in several videos explaining why we shouldnt assume the speed of light is constant. This assumption makes us force the word of God to conform to our limited understanding. There may be another video where he explains this as well, but this one is pretty enlightening.
EDIT - the speed of light is explained around the 58 minute mark. - But prior to that he does explain that the universe cannot be billions of years old mainly due to degradation...Encourage you to listen to it all and provide your comments
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Post by Natalie on Dec 6, 2018 14:53:49 GMT -6
I was rereading the first two chapters of Genesis today and wondered about this passage:
When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up - for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground - then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Gen 2:5-9)
If the earth is millions of years old, what did animals eat for all that time since plants did not start growing until Adam was formed?
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Post by kjs on Dec 7, 2018 10:07:23 GMT -6
Since you say you like to think outside the box; try this out of left field example ….
Thinking outside the box….
What's 2+3×4? It's well-known that 2+3×4 is 14, because you are supposed to do the multiplication before the addition. 3×4 is 12, and then you add the 2 and get 14. What you do not do is perform the operations in left-to-right order; if you did that you would add 2 and 3 to get 5, then multiply by 4 and get 20.Growing up learning mathematics – I am sure you like many of us had all types of fun adventures and even failing grades because of how we practice our calculations… With all the “rules” like the above mentioned one -- of multiplication before addition – determined the actual outcome of the answering value. We learned that even the setup of certain variables; also caused the end value to change.
The point being made is that mathematics can be done to “PROVE” anything … unlike in school where the correct answers can be found in the teacher’s workbook – in the “real” world – mathematical “proofs” {also known as theories or assumptions} can be generated to obtain a final value. But there is no way to “prove” that final value – is indeed the correct answer.
As an example, let’s take the issue of how the distance to certain stars is developed…..
One technique used to calculate star distances -- uses triangulation (a.k.a. parallax). The Earth's orbit around the sun has a diameter of about 186 million miles (300 million kilometers). By looking at a star one day and then looking at it again 6 months later, an astronomer can see a difference in the viewing angle for the star. With a little trigonometry, the different angles yield a distance. This technique works for stars within about 400 light years of earth.
DID YOU CATCH THAT?
Even with this supposedly great way (or proof) to calculate the distance to a star – still leaves the final value in doubt up to 400 light years being off. In other words they (the scientist) are assuming (theorizing) that by staring at particular point of light; they can use trigonometry to adjust angles to come up with a distance value -- but that value is not provable as being corrected – only assumed to be correct.
For example, I can think of several ways the calculation can be wrong (and you might be able to come up with others…)
1) Viewing stars six months apart – may or may not yield the same star … one point of the viewing of different times to get the angles – does not prove the same star was measured – because the star (and earth) has moved…. One can assume it is the same star … but it is only a point of light – even with the best telescope it is still a point of light.2) The atmosphere may affect the angle values. The atmosphere can and does distort the lights coming through. If one reading was taken on a very clear night and the second reading on a slightly cloudy night – would affect the angles.
Other examples can be given; but I think the point is made – the entire “theory” of star distances of being Light Years away – is just that a theory. It cannot be proven – except (until) a spaceship is built that can travel there and back – and give us the precise distance.AND, that is just one piece of the entire debate over star-light being a way to “determine time” for the existence of earth (or universe)…. Other ways – include the embedded videos already presented within this long thread – which show that there are other ways to arrive at the calculated values…..
(in case you missed the video – here one of them again again -- from page one of thread)
There are several videos in this thread – that directly answer the theories you present in your post….
Might I suggest you review those videos and posts before repeating the same statements; already covered?
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 7, 2018 12:35:00 GMT -6
Hi Mike, I wanted to watch the video in full before replying, I have watched videos like that before, I like to look at everything when forming a conclusion/opinion on any subject. Scriptures were not written incorrectly per se, they were not interpreted/translated correctly at times. For instance, in Rev. 1:1 many people say that Jesus states he will be coming back shortly and thus they derive an Eschatology that is off kilter because they actually believe that is what Jesus stated, even though intuitively we are supposed to know that only the Father knows the time of Jesus' return. So this needed further study. I thus found that the word SHORTLY was derived from 2 Greek words as per the translation. One Greek word was EN and basically means "at a fixed point in time" the other Greek word was TACHOS and means "speedily/swiftly or in haste". I say all that to say this, it matters how we interpret or translate the words from the bible. Now instead if this saying Jesus will come shortly, what it actually says is this, "At a fixed point in time, Jesus will come speedily" in other words, Jesus is saying, at a future point in time, unknown by me, the Father will send me and I will come in haste. So I don't think the scriptures were written incorrectly at all, God is perfect in all of His ways. But the Hebrew Language was primitive with like 4000 words at that time, words had many meanings and according to the contextual composition could be seen in many different ways. God also confused the languages at Babel because men were getting too intelligent. Maybe God was evasive on purpose, not wanting mankind to get where we are now, too soon, by giving us insights etc. etc. But the word YOWM's original meaning was/is "to be hot". A star gives us light/heat. They are hot for sure. So I only desire to interpret what God meant in His Holy word. God did not intend to try to teach people 3500 years ago what billions of years meant, He used a word that can mean more than just Day, it can mean to be hot (original meaning) or period of time, we have to figure out what works the best. There was no earth nor sun for the first 9.2 billion years of this universe, so how could it be or why would it be "earth days" ? The moon and earth hadn't even clashed yet and set our days in an orderly fashion. Since YOWM can mean period of time, why wouldn't I think God intended to infer a Period of time ? Why would God try to explain Creation to these primitive people ? Why would He want to explain these things ? So God told us that He created the universe in 7 YOWMS........is that earth days of 24 hours or Periods of time ? Which one makes more contextual sense ? That is how you have to use a primitive language, you have 50 different ways a word can be used, thus you have to figure out what the context is and thus which of the 50 meanings of the word YOWM needs to be inserted. Christians of all perspectives can have opinions of course on these things, I don't like to dissuade brothers and sisters from seeking the truth in their own unique ways. I just like to offer my opinions, studies, thoughts and beliefs so we can all come to a consensus or not, so as it may be, but we can still learn from each other as we move through this life. I have studied the "stretching of time" by some Jewish scholar who shows that like 1.5 billion years or was it 15 billion years can be reduced to be 6000 years on earth. I have read about the Comets he spoke of etc. etc. I agree if God wanted to He could create a Universe in any amount of time He so desired, but this would mean changing the Laws of Nature (SEE THE Last Video on page one, find God in 5 Minutes...Gerald Schroeder is a super Christian guy, that video is AWESOME) and no one can explain to me why God would need to change the Laws of Nature. You see, God doesn't need to speed anything up, He lives in ALL TIME at once, thus when He created the Universe 13.7 billion years ago He was already living in its completion. So why would God need to change the Laws of Nature ? The earth's crust was formed only after it cooled, taking 20-40 million years to do so, unless God altered the Laws of Nature, and again, why would He need to do that ? He lives in all time at once. We do all of this in order to make it fit what the bible supposedly says. I take YOWM to mean a period of time. The WMAP Map, proves God's word to be true, God stated there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep, and the WMAP Map used microwaves to map out the universe and it shows 400 million years of darkness, and then the stars started forming. I can't place an image here, but at the 4:44 mark of this video you can see the WMAP Map that shows this. So we have to believe God changed the Laws of Nature, or that we mistranslated a primitive language. I chose to think the Laws of Nature don't need to be changed. Watch the 5 Minute video I spoke of earlier. These Scientists don't even realize they are proving God exists via Quantum Fluctuations. The Big Bang actually proves God and that the Universe had a Creation point !! In the 1800's Scientists believed the Universe was eternal and thus had no need of being created, then two scientists heard the echo of the Big Bang, and it proved the Universe had a staring point or was created. This is a good thing, God tells us He created our universe. The preachers of the 1800's were correct, the Scientists were wrong. Before I came to my understanding I watched all of these videos, and I read a lot by Christian Scientists like Richard Deem and his site. He explains why the Universe must be the exact size it is or the Universe would have collapsed on itself, or it would have been uninhabitable. A sample below as per why the Universe is the size it is, Atheists always ask this question. Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe. Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.
For both spiritual and physical reasons, the universe must be immense to fulfill the purposes of God, according to the Bible. The large size of the universe tells us about His power and authority, and is required for the formation of rocky planets. That is some of his work, I tend to follow the God created the Universe over a long period of time crowd, but we do not believe in evolution, we believe God created the universe over a long period of time. One of course is per chance, the other is God creating the universe and all of its inhabitants. God Bless.............enjoyed the video. |
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Post by mike on Dec 7, 2018 14:50:54 GMT -6
rondonmonson - I think at this point we should just agree to disagree on the subject as this debate is way beyond you and me and others on this site as the topic has been debated by scientists that are certainly more brilliant than I am. I dont mind discussing as long as we keep it the way its been going "iron sharpening iron". (Although sometimes I feel more like damp moldy sponge)
For me there are so many atheists in the world that cite the age of the universe being the reason for evolution, that I cannot support that view as I still dont see how it fits the biblical account without altering the meaning as you propose.
I am thankful for your viewpoint and the support given. I will continue to research that aspect as well as even though I may disagree with it I want to be able to present the Gospel to someone who holds the viewpoint, so understand their perspective and being able to 'prove' God created it is the bigger picture and certainly more important than whether or not the age is 13.7 billion or 6000.
EDIT - just one other thought on changing the laws of nature. When He created Adam wasnt He breaking the laws of nature? I mean He created a 25 year old man, not an infant incapable of caring for himself. As I stated earlier in the thread, Adam was only a day old but appeared to be older, or do you think that day was longer than an actual 24 hour day?
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 7, 2018 20:45:02 GMT -6
rondonmonson - I think at this point we should just agree to disagree on the subject as this debate is way beyond you and me and others on this site as the topic has been debated by scientists that are certainly more brilliant than I am. I dont mind discussing as long as we keep it the way its been going "iron sharpening iron". (Although sometimes I feel more like damp moldy sponge) For me there are so many atheists in the world that cite the age of the universe being the reason for evolution, that I cannot support that view as I still dont see how it fits the biblical account without altering the meaning as you propose. I am thankful for your viewpoint and the support given. I will continue to research that aspect as well as even though I may disagree with it I want to be able to present the Gospel to someone who holds the viewpoint, so understand their perspective and being able to 'prove' God created it is the bigger picture and certainly more important than whether or not the age is 13.7 billion or 6000. EDIT - just one other thought on changing the laws of nature. When He created Adam wasnt He breaking the laws of nature? I mean He created a 25 year old man, not an infant incapable of caring for himself. As I stated earlier in the thread, Adam was only a day old but appeared to be older, or do you think that day was longer than an actual 24 hour day? Most atheists by definition are not very smart  ........They just like to blunder through life making asinine assumptions they heard someplace, but when I come at them with facts they usually dodge my points. Most aren't very intelligent, they just use parlor tricks to befuddle the average Christian, and since part of my job is to try to reach atheists, along with everyone, I really needed to be hip to the facts. To challenge the devils lies about us coming into existence per chance, which of course is a falsehood of course. Evolution means we came into existence per chance, Creation mans God created us, if God created us over a long period of time, creating man 6000 years ago, it's still creation. I had the same problem as you as per evolution and old universe being synonymous until I realized that I allowed the evolution types to pin me (I think on purpose) into an untenable position, so I needed to rethink the situation, at least in my eyes. I don't believe God creating a man full size breaks the Laws of Nature which are basically Gravitation, Matter and Light. What Christian Scientist Gerald Schroeder shows in the "find God in 5 minutes" video is that the very Quantum Fluctuations the Scientists see outside our universe, is the very thing most of them don't believe in, the Biblical God. Quantum Fluctuations = The Laws of Nature (Set of Forces) 1.) Not Physical 2.) Acts on the Physical 3.) Created the Physical from Nothing 4.) Predates the Universe These Scientists get all excited because now they see it as "POSSIBLE" that the Universe came from the Quantum Fluctuations seen just outside our universe....LOL, Guess what, Look again at the four descriptions above, who do they describe to a tee ? The Biblical God !! God 1.) God is a Spirit 2.) God said let there be Light. 3.) God created the Universe from nothing 4.) God predates the Universe. So, back to your point, I don't think creating a man from scratch would alter the Laws of Nature. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 11, 2018 13:19:19 GMT -6
Since you say you like to think outside the box; try this out of left field example ….
Thinking outside the box….
What's 2+3×4? It's well-known that 2+3×4 is 14, because you are supposed to do the multiplication before the addition. 3×4 is 12, and then you add the 2 and get 14. What you do not do is perform the operations in left-to-right order; if you did that you would add 2 and 3 to get 5, then multiply by 4 and get 20.Growing up learning mathematics – I am sure you like many of us had all types of fun adventures and even failing grades because of how we practice our calculations… With all the “rules” like the above mentioned one -- of multiplication before addition – determined the actual outcome of the answering value. We learned that even the setup of certain variables; also caused the end value to change.
The point being made is that mathematics can be done to “PROVE” anything … unlike in school where the correct answers can be found in the teacher’s workbook – in the “real” world – mathematical “proofs” {also known as theories or assumptions} can be generated to obtain a final value. But there is no way to “prove” that final value – is indeed the correct answer.
As an example, let’s take the issue of how the distance to certain stars is developed…..
One technique used to calculate star distances -- uses triangulation (a.k.a. parallax). The Earth's orbit around the sun has a diameter of about 186 million miles (300 million kilometers). By looking at a star one day and then looking at it again 6 months later, an astronomer can see a difference in the viewing angle for the star. With a little trigonometry, the different angles yield a distance. This technique works for stars within about 400 light years of earth.
DID YOU CATCH THAT?
Even with this supposedly great way (or proof) to calculate the distance to a star – still leaves the final value in doubt up to 400 light years being off. In other words they (the scientist) are assuming (theorizing) that by staring at particular point of light; they can use trigonometry to adjust angles to come up with a distance value -- but that value is not provable as being corrected – only assumed to be correct.
For example, I can think of several ways the calculation can be wrong (and you might be able to come up with others…)
1) Viewing stars six months apart – may or may not yield the same star … one point of the viewing of different times to get the angles – does not prove the same star was measured – because the star (and earth) has moved…. One can assume it is the same star … but it is only a point of light – even with the best telescope it is still a point of light.2) The atmosphere may affect the angle values. The atmosphere can and does distort the lights coming through. If one reading was taken on a very clear night and the second reading on a slightly cloudy night – would affect the angles.
Other examples can be given; but I think the point is made – the entire “theory” of star distances of being Light Years away – is just that a theory. It cannot be proven – except (until) a spaceship is built that can travel there and back – and give us the precise distance.AND, that is just one piece of the entire debate over star-light being a way to “determine time” for the existence of earth (or universe)…. Other ways – include the embedded videos already presented within this long thread – which show that there are other ways to arrive at the calculated values…..
(in case you missed the video – here one of them again again -- from page one of thread)
There are several videos in this thread – that directly answer the theories you present in your post….
Might I suggest you review those videos and posts before repeating the same statements; already covered?
Sorry, I missed this awhile back..... As per how we calculate/measure things, I think it's pretty clear that the constants don't change or variate, the universe would have no order if this was the case IMHO. It's clear to me that the universe is old, God didn't just put oil in the ground and fossils to deceive us. He created the universe by a set of constants that stay constant. He created it and it took time as per our universe, but God lives in all time at the same time, he is everywhere, thus God had no need of hurrying up anything, He created the Universe and lived in its completion all at the same time, which is why He knows the beginnings form the endings. If one (God in this instance) lives in all time, and we see a set of constants the created the universe, why would we think He (God) had to change or hurry up the constants/laws of nature just to hurry up the creation ? He lives in the future already !! That is the point I can never get the Young Earth guys to answer. There is no reason why God would change the laws of nature, IMHO. Until someone can prove the constants were changed by God on purpose then I have no reason to believe the universe is 6000 years old. REMEMBER we do all this because the bible says Day when the old Hebrew had a number of possible meanings for every word because they had like only 4000 words in total and we feel the bible can never be wrong. But if God meant a period of time, and I think He did because the earth wasn't event around for the first 9.2 Billion years and days as we know them were even set until the Moon and Earth clashed in a violent crash, the moon lost the battle of almost equal planets, the earth got th mass and the moon pretty much died off and became the earth's satellite, thus giving us the seasons we basically have now, if the moon was not where it is we would have no seasons, and much more violent weather. Oh well, brother, we can agree to disagree here, we are both intelligent in that we choose the Mercy of Christ Jesus, these so called Scientists who believe we came from Apes we should pity. God Bless. Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your post, I just missed it somehow. |
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........They just like to blunder through life making asinine assumptions they heard someplace, but when I come at them with facts they usually dodge my points. Most aren't very intelligent, they just use parlor tricks to befuddle the average Christian, and since part of my job is to try to reach atheists, along with everyone, I really needed to be hip to the facts. To challenge the devils lies about us coming into existence per chance, which of course is a falsehood of course.