Creation 6000 years or 4 billion?

bondservant , @stephan and mike

It seemed fitting to move your thread and combine it with a thread that talks about the same topic. The topic seemed more relevant to what you were discussing.

Also, you may wish to read prior comments made that relate to the creation.

My perspective hasn't changed: Does such a perspective not presuppose a God that is incapable of creating a 'built in' age to rocks, et c?

Also, I found a wiki article about the spark plug I referred to in a previous post in this thread.

Turns out it was a 1920s spark plug, found in 1961. I like how the wikipedia article doesn't even consider the possibility that given adequate temperature, pressure and time, fossilization can occur MUCH more quickly than 'millions of years'.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coso_artifact

Two thoughts on this. (I am not sure if I understand your opinion correctly...but anyway....)
Why should God create a built in age....?

First it's a matter of authenticity and fortrightness, not to do this. Why should God lead us astray in doing so...?
This is the moral or philosophical aspect.

The other by far more important reason, I decline this 'built in age' thought is the flawedness of the so called radio carbon method that leads people to think that rocks are millions and billions of years old.
This method is hopelessly based on false presumptions, such as a carbon dioxide level that is similar to todays measured concentrations in the atmosphere.
With the flood and biblical narrative in mind, we know, that in earlier times nature and biosphere was way more active meaning more saturated with carbon dioxide which is by the way the best fertilizer.

My stance on this whole discussion is, that most scientists, especially the atheistic camp must be per se interested in postulating huuuuge timespans to get their hypotheses to work.
There is also a very interesting theory of Barry Setterfield (www.setterfield.org) that the light speed decreases. His calculations showed that in OT times of Moses and Adam the lightspeed was some million times higher than today.
This is one more hint to a pretty young earth and universe.

This is not a salvation issue, so I would not be dogmatic about, but I see dangerous side effects of an "old creation" narrative. It plays into the hands of evolutionists and atheists.

More informations can be found on creationism.org
Please be aware that with increasing internet censorship in mind one day you may don't have anymore access to these sites.

oooops....mike , sorry it's my fault. It's pretty challenging to be understood correctly if you are forced to express your thoughts only with bits and bytes....

I dont think we can tell what the earth looked like at 5 days old. Only God and Adam can answer that. We do know that the earth as we see it today is about 6000 years old and WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO about it being older than that. The deception of the enemy leading the weak down the path of unrighteousness. It angers me because I was once one of the weak minded who refused to acknowledge the creator through His creation! 

Hi guys! This interesting thread has pulled me in and I would like to share a little personal story with you. Many years ago my family and I were traveling the West and hitting many bucket list destinations. We spent a few days at the Grand Canyon. My teen age son and I hiked down part way on the Bright Angel trail from the lodge on the South rim. There were a lot of other hikers as well as mule trains. There were also a lot of signs detailing how all of this vast canyon had taken millions of years to form. As a Christian father I felt the need to explain that this was propoganda but my words seemed weak and my arguments were sketchy as the signs kept coming. My son loved science and facts. I felt defeated, I did lift up a prayer for help as we descended deeper into the canyon. People coming up from below were interesting and we would nod or say hello when we met. One man looked strangely familiar and he called out my name! Stunned, I realized it was a college professor I had met in Sitka, Alaska shortly after I had left the Army and before I was married. He and his wife and I had many wonderful Bible studies together. They were both scientists and during those years they realized how their own education had misled them. They began a search of their own and eventually went on to become creation scientists. Since then they have spoken to countless groups at churches, colleges, and other venues. Their names are Dave and MaryJo Nutting and they founded Alpha and Omega Institute out of Grand Junction, Colorado. Back to the story... After a joyful reunion I explained my feelings about the signs and my desire to offer a better alternative to my son. Dave took over. He told Timothy to take a good look at the chasm before us. He said there were two ways water could create such a thing. One was a little water over a very long time and the other was a lot of water over a very short time. Then he asked Timothy to look at the cliffs around us. Did they seem weathered and worn from millions of years of erosion? Or did they seem sharp and clean as if scoured by a high pressure giant hose? The answer was obvious. It could not look like this if millions of years were required. Timothy was convinced! Dave went back to leading his tour group up out of the canyon and I proceeded farther down. How magnificent is our God! How exquisite timing! How wonderfully He answered my prayer! Thank you for letting me share this story!

first of all, what a cool miracle event in the Grand Canyon gkp  I love reading that teaching you shared, and hope to use that one day...

My dad, who was a chemical engineer, always insisted to me that the science was flawed in the usages of half-lifes for dating...  and from that point on for some reason I never questioned creation, even though my whole life I was science-bent, eager to learn the things of nature, etc.  Even so I find it interesting to see the different verbages used in Genesis about God's handiwork.

The Word "created"           bara'          to shape, create

"made"                             asah         to do, to fashion

the phrases "Let there be"
"and there was"                hayah         to fall out, come to pass, become, be

I was going to do a bit more here but I think for each one wanting to look more into this, can do his own seeking using BibleHub for hebrew meanings of the Word directly, and to see where specific words were used elsewhere in the OT...Looking at the word BARA' itself, it was used for specific creation events, and not in describing all of them.  Herein lies likely many explanation of creating the sense of age for things, and perhaps a reason to expect "time" was not a factor.

another video I saw that still stands the test of time (since it was copyrighted out of the 80's) is the film Case for Creation by Lea Strobel.  In this very basic teaching, there are scientists who have come to leave Darwin's theories as they can no longer link one single ancestor.  These converted creationists no longer see a single tree with branches forming all from a single root, but see the animal kingdom as a field of grass, each type coming from its own blade of grass...  anyways, I have not read all the components of this thread and the other thread that is combined here, but like gkp started getting pulled in by the dialog.  

Oh gkp how silly, its the random universe that caused all that to happen. All random coincidence 😁

How great is our God!