Rapture Spaghetti Model

Sept 11, 2017 10:13:51 GMT -6 @silentknight said:

brad ,

I would add 10/4 (evening). This is the first day of the Feast of tabernacles. And actually this day will not be known until the feast of trumpets is known. Then the first day of tabernacles will be 14 days later.

This holds water for this reason: the first day would be the birth, the last great day (which is the 8th day of the feast) would be the circumcision of the flesh and the reception of the new body. The law is to circumcise on the 8th day.

Also, as far as I remember, the scriptures say that the Dead will rise first, then we those alive will be caught up in the air. So there could be a gap. Dead rise on trumpets, days of awe until atonement, then 1st of tabernacles birth, 8th of tabernacles circumcision.

Also, there is a special message hidden in Jesus showing up in the middle of the tabernacles feast after telling his family he wasn't going. It wasn't yet his time, but then he went anyway. In the middle of tabernacles he appeared at the temple and preached, then on the last great day (8th day) was when he declared himself to be the living water.  (John 7)

There is something here that needs to be studied out.

Hello Brad, and Silent Knight.  

I love the Thread.  I also love the discussion - dialogue back and forth.  I really like when people challenge me (with grace and love) why my position doesn't work, or graciously points out the holes.   So I don't say this to be combative, but rather, as part of a robust dialogue with you - my fellow watchmen - Brothers and sisters who are trying to study and search the scriptures like the Bereans. ;-)

  I also am reminded that we all are looking through a glass dimly, and scripture gives us lots of pieces of the puzzle, but we won't know until we get there.  

I've looked at lots of timelines and charts, and droves of You-tube videos, and I'm open to Spaghetti models, and different perspectives - here's what I think, based on harmonizing the scriptures and also considering other sources like the Talmud, which is significant, because this confirms that something is not in invention of modern Judiasm, or some Messianic rabbi, trying to support his point.   I believe that the Feasts are inseparably linked with Christ.  Christ fulfilled each of the First four 'Spring Feasts' in perfect order, and in perfect precision.  Not the day after, or close, or before, but exactly on the day.  No other feast comes close to having all the markers and parallels in scripture than the Feast of Trumpets to the rapture.

Also it's very significant that this is the next one in order that has yet to be fulfilled.  

- Here's the thing - Paul said explicitly in Coloss 2:16-17, that the feasts are a shadow of things to come. The whole point of a sign is that it points to something ahead in the road. It gives notice. Who put's a stop sign in the middle of a forest, or who puts a 'detour' or 'bridge out' sign in the middle of a wheat field.

[**Feast of Tabernacles can't work for two reasons - No Trumpets on Feast of Tabernacles - Sukkot, but more importantly, this one will be fulfilled in the millennium, by all nations, Jews and Gentiles.  It's also out of order.  Zechariah 14:16-19. ]

◾So first, we have Paul, a Jew, writing to a mixed audience, Jewish audience with more and more Gentile believers.  Coloss 2:16-17 
◾He is Saying the feasts, and new moons, are a shadow of things to come.
◾Feast of Trumpets is the only feast that begins on the new Moon.
◾**It is significant because all the others, we know the exact day when they happen. Passover is always on a full Moon, 14th of Nisan, in the evening - twilight. - Feast of Unleavened bread is Nisan 15. Starts at Sundown, when Passover ends. Day of Atonement is always 10 of Tishri. Because it can be cloudy or raining, sometimes the new moon is not sighted, and this is why the holiday is 2 days. No one knows the day or hour.
◾The Phrase in Hebrew is Yom Teruah, and the word Teruah means blast, but literally ''shout". It is known as a day of Shouting. Hmm. I Thes. 4:16-17
◾For centuries, Jews have understood that the resurrection will happen at Yom Teruah, and this is not an invention of modern Judaism. It is confirmed in the Talmud, the commentary to the Tanakh, which is believed to be the actual oral instruction God gave to Abraham. 1 Cor 15:52.
◾There are exactly 7 days between Feast of Trumpets, and Day of Atonement. hmmm. Jews call this the Ten days of Awe, Days of Repentance. (perfect parallel to the Tribulation) After 7 years of Tribulation, will be a time of repentance for the Jews who rejected the messiah and we have the 144,000 sealed Jews that are saved in the Tribulation.
◾One of the biggest themes for Yom Teruah is Day of Coronation. Kings were always coronated on Feast of Trumpets. ***Jews also believe that Yom Teruah is the Birthday of Manking - humanity. In Hebrew, if you turn the letters around, "In the Beginning" becomes First of Tishri.
◾Christ fulfilled all the first four "Spring Feasts" in perfect order and perfect precision. The three fall feasts are connected with End-times events.
◾The Bible tells us in Zechar 14:16-19, that Feast of Booths/ Sukkot will be fulfilled - in the end of time, all nations Jews and Gentiles will celebrate Feast of Booths, Sukkot.
◾The only feasts that have trumpets are Feast of Trumpets and Day of Atonement.
◾At Feast of Trumpets, two witnesses have to see the New moon,/ crescent in Jerusalem, and then it is confirmed by the Sanhedrin - Jewish council. They blow 99 blasts of the Trumpet. 4 distinct types of blasts/ sounds. Short and long alternating blasts, and rapid broken, staccato blasts. Then, the "Last Trumpet" is the 100th blast - the loudest and the longest. It goes as long as the trumpeter has breath. There is a special name in Hebrew, just for the Last Trumpet -it is Tekia Hagadol.
◾Jews believe that the Door of Heaven is opened at Feast of Trumpets and Closed/ sealed at Day of Atonement. See Rev 4. 1-2.
◾In Rev 4:1-3 There is the Door of heaven opened, a voice of a Trumpet, and the words "Come up here." The context of Rev 3 is to 7 real churches in Asia Minor - epistles, and then Christ says Come up Here, and the church is not mentioned again until Rev 19, at the Second Coming, when he returns with the Church, and comes down to Earth and sets his feet on the mount of Olives.
◾The 'trumpets' passage in Rev 8-10 are Seven Trumpets being blown by seven different angels, - Not the Trumpet of God. The context of these seven trumpets is judgement and wrath, horrible destruction and plagues. Rev 8-10 are Bowl Judgements and is a totally different purpose, context and separate trumpets [Angels vs 1 trumpet of God] from I Cor 15:51-52.
◾***One of the most important things left out by the so-called Rev 12 sign proponents, is that Paul wrote and Isaiah wrote that the Gospel was given to the Gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy. Jews will not be provoked to jealousy, by some alleged Sept alignment, which by the way happens after the Feast of Trumpets. What is the point of having a ''sharp curve" or "falling rocks" sign 2 miles after the event. None.
◾Jews will be provoked to jealousy, when the resurrection happens, and the Gentiles were resurrected, and they missed it, and it happened on their feast. ;-) When the door of heaven is opened, and they not ushered in to the wedding chamber.
◾During the 7 years, the bride will be ''hidden away'' in the chuppah - the wedding chamber, and their eyes will be opened by the Anti-Christ, and they will be reconciled at the Day of Atonement. 7 years later.
◾At the Millennium, Christ will rule as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Yeshua ha Maschiah, and all nations of the earth will celebrate the Feast of Booths, Sukkot.

Scripture doesn't say that we can't know the Month or Year. He said, "Encourage each other all the more, as you see the day approaching."

The so-called Rev 12 sign has tons of speculation, and is not on a Feast day. At the most, it is a convergence, like Hurricane Harvey. What will the ''Rev 12 sign" people say when nothing happens. -It won't be back, next year, or the next 100. Feast of Trumpets happens every year, and for the reasons above is a very high watch time for millions of Christians. It is a time of searching my heart, repenting and drawing close to God. If nothing prophetic happens this Sept, I've lost nothing. Maranatha. !!!!





Read more: unsealed.boards.net/thread/261/reasons-believe-pre-trib-rapture#ixzz4srDfROxJ

Sept 12, 2017 13:33:07 GMT -6 kjs said:

Sept 12, 2017 12:54:01 GMT -6 @silentknight said:

You know, to add to my last post. I would even say it is one of my concerns is that we all stop watching or searching after the 23rd. We have all added a lot to the sign, but the sign by itself is significant. This is why I created the thread about the dreaded day 9/24.

A rapture need not happen on that day or before for us to believe in what God is doing at this time on earth. So many options are still open on the 24th. Some of them very soon after the 23rd.  Some of them several years later.

Oh, I agree many of us -- have not claimed the sign = rapture.

The sign will occur in less than ten days -- what does it mean when the sign occurs.

My point about the spaghetti model -- is tacking on additional days -- saying well if not this day -- then it could be this day....

We have the sign -- that sign will occur on the 23rd -- if that is the only thing that happens that day -- then great -- let's figure out what it means; but to add possible rapture dates like 10/4 \ 10/12 \ 11/18   --- is just grasping at straws.

Spot on, KJS.  I totally agree- that's why have said over and over, - I think the Sept alignment is not NOTHING.  It has some significance, but on the other hand, I categorically reject the "Any day of the year" phallacy.  This is totally unbiblical, and is the byproduct of the "No One Knows the Day or Hour - Squaaaaack!" mentality, as an excuse for people to not study.   Jesus and Paul and John gave us signs for a reason.  What's the point of a sign if it's a stop sign in a forest.  The point of a sign is that it points to something ahead, and Paul said explicitly that the feasts "are a shadow of (point to) things to come."   

The other thing is that in the story of the 10 Virgins, this is a wedding celebration.  The wise virgins knew the general time the bridegroom was coming.    If it was completely unknown, without any indication, or clues, then we would have to carry wagons of oil - because we could never know.  

**Also, so many people miss/ or ignore the fact that Christ reproved the Jewish leaders because they missed the sign of his coming.   This is exactly why it cannot be underscored or highlighted enough that the Gospel was given to provoke the Jews to Jealousy.  

-    Jews will not be provoked to jealousy by some Sept alignment, nor by a tsunami in China, or an Eclipse in the US. 

It might not be this Feast of Trumpets, - but it's the next one in order to be fulfilled.  There are only two choices-  Feast of Trumpets and Day of Atonement.  We already know that Feast of Booths - Sukkot will be fulfilled at the millennium.  Zechariah 14:16-19.  

No other feast even comes remotely close to having all the markers and parallels in scripture to the rapture as the Feast of Trumpets.  

Either Christ fulfills the feasts - and they are a point to "things to come" or they don't.    blessings  fellow watchmen.

Sept 16, 2017 13:22:25 GMT -6 @silentknight said:

disciple4life ,

I fully agree that the feast of trumpets is the best match for the catching away. This is what I have taught my family for the last 15-16 years. We even blow a "trumpet" to gather ourselves together when we celebrate the feast each year. However, two things are indisputably true that we often forget:

1. All of the varying opinions available demonstrate that no one actually knows and so much of our logic is developed within our blind spots that we have created over time. There are actual solid reasons that support alternatives to our ideas of the "only way it can happen". We just tend to dismiss them if they don't align with our current understanding.

2. This thread was created for the purpose of discussing alternatives to Trumpets. Some of us thought that would be fun.

Having said this, our family will celebrate Trumpets again this year the same way we have for many years - with that expectation of the resurrection of the dead and our catching away. But I also will constantly hold myself in a position of being persuadable to other times as well.

Yes, Brother, I'm right with you. totally agree on all the points -- We shouldn't be dogmatic on something that isn't a core tenet of salvation, and particularly when there is so much symbolism in Daniel and Revelation.

I also agree, that it is a great thread, and fun to discuss and consider other viewpoints. Although I lean strongly pre-tribulation rapture, I often read other positions, just to see their perspective, and like I said earlier, I really value your thoughts and even those who feel strongly but have very different opinions, - like that the rapture could be at any moment, any day of the year, so just don't try to study, or those who deeply believe that the Sept alignment is the rapture.    

- I want to be able to always keep that perspective that we are seeing through a glass dimly, and all of us only have parts of the puzzle. ;-)    I have a great feeling of mutual encouragement - that we really are encouraging each other on as we do indeed see the day approaching. ;-) Blessings, Silent Knight. I appreciate your insight.