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Post by kjs on Sept 12, 2017 13:33:07 GMT -6
You know, to add to my last post. I would even say it is one of my concerns is that we all stop watching or searching after the 23rd. We have all added a lot to the sign, but the sign by itself is significant. This is why I created the thread about the dreaded day 9/24. A rapture need not happen on that day or before for us to believe in what God is doing at this time on earth. So many options are still open on the 24th. Some of them very soon after the 23rd. Some of them several years later. Oh, I agree many of us -- have not claimed the sign = rapture. The sign will occur in less than ten days -- what does it mean when the sign occurs. My point about the spaghetti model -- is tacking on additional days -- saying well if not this day -- then it could be this day.... We have the sign -- that sign will occur on the 23rd -- if that is the only thing that happens that day -- then great -- let's figure out what it means; but to add possible rapture dates like 10/4 \ 10/12 \ 11/18 --- is just grasping at straws. |
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Post by brad on Sept 13, 2017 7:39:06 GMT -6
Brad: while your Spaghetti Model is “cute and timely” – over-all I would say it is not beneficial.Here is why, the vast majority of the “church” which teaches rapture believes in the imminent removal. Or, put another way the rapture could occur NOW (this very second) or not for another ten years – or anywhere between that time span. Your Spaghetti model kind of goes back to that imminent belief and allows people to add favorite dates to the model (like SK). Here is what Scott Clark said in one of his interviews, when asked specifically What If it does not happen? He replied – it is back to the drawing board – to figure out which calculation we messed up on. What your model will do; is provide additional data points where people can hang their hats on and say --- ok – it was not 9/21 – then it must be 9/23 – if not 9/23 then how about 10/4 -- heck you model goes all the way to mid-November – all along giving some people one more “Hope for “ date.If no rapture occurs by the SIGN (ie we are still here on 9/24) – I think our best bet is admit we are wrong about God’s timing – and not simply grab a few more dates to wait for. Sorry you think the spaghetti model is "not beneficial" KJS, I thought it to be a perfect analogy. Your thoughts here actually make the best case for this model being VERY BENEFICIAL!So it looks like your best thinking ( the KJS noodle), tells us that if we are still here on the 24th, then we are wrong and we should admit it? I think this to be extremely bad advice. Those dates on the model are not random dates for us to "grasp at straws" should this go into overtime... they are well thought out positions from the members here on the forum. The entire reason for the Spaghetti Model was to try and prepare those who are ready to give up on the 24th. Have you not seen that on the 24th the moon is still under foot while standing? How about the trumpets still blowing till the day of Atonement? Maybe the second birth in the sign theory or Sam's alignment date of 10/15? I stand by the Spaghetti model being the perfect analogy... Something big is on the way, and only God knows when the exact date is... I suggest you re-think your "best advice" for us here... Get on the Ark and stay there! |
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Post by Natalie on Sept 13, 2017 7:44:57 GMT -6
You two obviously have very different opinions, and going back and forth is not going to change anyone's mind. I suggest we end this thread here and move on to a discussion of other things.
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Post by mike on Sept 13, 2017 8:06:53 GMT -6
@natalie - why end the thread? If a heated argument starts then sure, but I dont see that, especially from these two. I see kjs point to a degree. we dont want to grasp for straws and start throwing out dates. The sign is on the 23rd, period. But we still cant definitively even say what the sign exactly means! If someone asked Brad to add December 25th, or Chanukkah dates then I think we might be grasping, but his model (is fun no doubt) has specific and relative dates to consider over the next month or two. I would say KJS would have a more valid position if Brad had dates that were irrelevant, not tied to feasts etc. You guys can decide on whether to close it out or not but if we're still hanging around next Friday night, we have a lot to consider and the spaghetti model or line graph or whatever the next thing to discuss will be relevant |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 8:28:21 GMT -6
My thoughts align with mike . I see what you are seeing @natalie, but maybe this would be a good time for everyone to practice sharpening iron and using their gentle words to work through a disagreement. Leaving the thread does not give us the opportunity to do that. Both kjs and brad have valid points of view. Some word choices maybe should have been avoided. But the points of view are valid. Random guessing is no different than what any other date setter has done throughout history. But, we have a distinct difference this time: the sign was not a date set by anyone. There were no calculations to figure out or go back and fix. So now, what is God telling us? Seems like He is saying something about THIS time that we are in. Now, we need to understand WHAT about THIS time. Is this a 7 year warning, a 3.5 year warning, is it an declaration after the fact, is it a message saying "This is the feast season you have been waiting for?" I would say, we need to at least see this feast season through. Also, what may seem "random" to one person may seem very scriptural to another. We, perhaps, need patience as each person searches in his/her own fashion and should not invalidate the contributions of others that seem a bit off to some. |
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Post by Natalie on Sept 13, 2017 8:34:47 GMT -6
You both have valid points. I wasn't suggesting locking the thread necessarily, but just stepping away for a bit. To gain the patience you mentioned, silentknight, so this doesn't become a personal attack.
Yes it is good to disagree and sharpen each other.
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Post by kjs on Sept 13, 2017 8:36:39 GMT -6
I believe all of us would agree that the “DATE” we are looking for is the date of the BIRTH. I think all would concur the way verse 5 ends seems to imply the rapture (or catching away) happens immediately (perhaps shortly) after the birth.
Using 9/23 as a base – because according to the software – that is date of when the first part of the sign takes place (or appears too) – As MIKE already noted (in this thread or another) – that the “space sign” gives us no idea whether she is in labor or not.
So if nothing happens on the base date – I think we should sit back and reexamine our assumptions and theories – we should try to identify that Birth Date.
Others apparently feel we should pick additional dates as possible candidates for the date.
It is these additional dates I object to. I do not believe we should give up on the rapture occurring in the near future. Just that we spend some time in thought – before identifying that next date.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 8:51:55 GMT -6
It is these additional dates I object to. I do not believe we should give up on the rapture occurring in the near future. Just that we spend some time in thought – before identifying that next date. , do you mean, spend that time after the 23rd rather than before it? Forgive me if I am not helping. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 13, 2017 8:52:09 GMT -6
Well whatever we discuss, let's be sure to be very gracious as we do it. I know I sometimes am quick to let my emotions take over, and things can get ugly when that happens. So what I am asking is that everybody take a deep breath and think for a minute. . . . . When we talk to each other, let's do our best to have these three goals in mind: Showing love and respect for our Lord and Savior Showing love and respect for the people we are directly interacting with on the forum Showing love and respect for the many more people who may come along and silently read this without commenting, possibly many days or weeks into the future. I love you guys, and everybody on this thread has had some valid thoughts and points to make, but let us do it in the love of our Lord.  |
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Post by brad on Sept 13, 2017 8:53:26 GMT -6
I believe all of us would agree that the “DATE” we are looking for is the date of the BIRTH. I think all would concur the way verse 5 ends seems to imply the rapture (or catching away) happens immediately (perhaps shortly) after the birth. Using 9/23 as a base – because according to the software – that is date of when the first part of the sign takes place (or appears too) – As MIKE already noted (in this thread or another) – that the “space sign” gives us no idea whether she is in labor or not. So if nothing happens on the base date – I think we should sit back and reexamine our assumptions and theories – we should try to identify that Birth Date. Others apparently feel we should pick additional dates as possible candidates for the date. It is these additional dates I object to. I do not believe we should give up on the rapture occurring in the near future. Just that we spend some time in thought – before identifying that next date. Well said kjs! The birth date is what we are looking for... working now on some thoughts on this very subject.... will post within a few hours. |
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Post by mike on Sept 13, 2017 9:06:51 GMT -6
Totally agree kjs, maybe this is the thread to examine those dates further. |
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Post by kjs on Sept 13, 2017 9:08:04 GMT -6
It is these additional dates I object to. I do not believe we should give up on the rapture occurring in the near future. Just that we spend some time in thought – before identifying that next date. , do you mean, spend that time after the 23rd rather than before it? Forgive me if I am not helping. Let us assume for the moment that 9/23 comes and goes and no rapture has taken place….. What I would hate to see to a vast array of alternative dates popping up; that would simply remind people of “past date setters” like 88 reasons becoming 89 reasons ; or Harold Camp 21st date becoming (whatever the date became I fail to remember at this time). If the 9/23 date comes and goes – then my contention is we failed to identify the Birth Date – not that we have MISSED the season all together. If you have possible Birth Dates – by all means share them, specifically laying out reasons why the birth could take place at that time. If you have simply have the next feast date, or the date of a comet, or a date that feels right – then I think your just playing a guessing game. |
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Post by brad on Sept 13, 2017 9:18:34 GMT -6
Many of us here are looking at the 22nd actually as the "Birth of the Male Child" because it falls on the "last Trump" on the Feast of Trumpets. Reading Isaiah 66 seems to imply a birth "before labor" which would tie in with Israel going into labor on the 23d.... immediately AFTER the Rapture. This is my best thinking "Noodle" on the map, but am reminded not to trust in my own understandings..... still working on the "Birthing signs"... will post soon.
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 13, 2017 9:25:18 GMT -6
And remember that the 23 in Israel is still the 22 here, for part of the day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 9:28:04 GMT -6
That makes sense kjs. What did you think of the reasons given for Tabernacles? The transfiguration, the 8 days, the revealing of the son of God, the presentation of the sons, the purification of the priests? |
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