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Post by boraddict on Dec 7, 2020 20:14:03 GMT -6
Thank you venge , and are you suggesting that commerce comes to a complete stop and then starts back up as the mark of beast era; or, are you suggesting that commerce transitions into the mark of the beast era. At this time in world affairs we see commerce slowing down because of covid19. How far does this continue? To the death of it; or, to the transition. Seems that the beast would not completely kill commerce but transition it into to the mark of the beast era. Please notice that Babylon becomes the habitation of devils (Rev. 18:2) and so it is not completely deceased but desolate, naked, burned, and eaten (Rev. 17:16). So Babylon as commerce will continue into a transitional phase (and that is where we are now) and ultimately to the mark of the beast era. Post Script: If Rev. 12:1 is the beginning and that date is 23 Sept. 2017. Then, 23 Sept 2020 is 3 years that has now passed and the end of the remaining 6 months is 23 March 2021. If my analysis is correct, then we should see Rev. 12:5-6 transpiring prior to that date as well as the war at Rev. 12:7-11 well underway. We can see the war between the Republicans and Democrats building at this time. Thus, 23 March 2021 that is right around the corner would be the midpoint. Also, the Book of Revelation was not given to the house of Judah but to the servants of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1). In fact, John's first writing that is the Gospel according to John was not to the house of Judah but to the believers of Jesus Christ. Thus, it is the case that John wrote two books to the followers of Jesus. Thus, as the followers of Lord Jesus then we should look to our homeland, the United States, as the backdrop for the unfolding of that book. Post Post Script: I have always understood the metaphorical application of the word "wilderness" to be something like "not tamed." So let's say that "the great oak is in the wilderness" then the interpretation of that is "the great leader is among the rebellious." So now let's look at Rev. 12:6 wherein it states that "the woman fled to the wilderness where she hath a place prepared of God" (KJV). The word "wilderness" in the context of that verse appears to be literal. However, in light of Rev. 12:7 wherein there is a war, then Verse 12:6 might be saying that the woman went to "feed" via warfare among the rebellious. Evidence to support this conclusion is Rev. 19:17-18 wherein the foul (saints) are called to feed upon the rebellious. That is, Rev. 19:17 would be to Rev. 12:6 and Rev. 19:18 would be to Rev. 12:7. Thus, Verse 12:6 might be referencing Verse 12:7 wherein those called (6) go to war (7). We then have a similar condition at Rev. 12:14 wherein the saints once again are called to the wilderness. However, this time the church is sequestered from "the face of the serpent" (KJV) and that is how we find the 144,000 at Rev. 14:1. My point being that the call at Verse 12:6 is to war whereas the call at Verse 12:14 is to wait as in Verse 14:1. |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 31, 2021 21:23:38 GMT -6
So I am back to Chapter 12 and noticed that the woman brought forth the man child who was to rule all nations with the rod of iron (Rev. 12:5). Of course this in it's literal application is Mary the mother of Jesus as the woman, and Lord Jesus as the man child to rule with the rod of iron as referenced in Rev. 19:15. However, as we all know (IMO), the primary application of the Book of Revelation is not literal but metaphorical. So, while the literal application of Verse 12:5 is readily apparent, and that being a type of the metaphorical, then the shadow of that type is the church as the woman and from the church comes an appointed lord. Yes, a sinner! Nevertheless, someone appointed by the Savior to preside over all nations.
Please consider the next point of interest that is the war beginning at Rev. 12:7. In this type and shadow we have the angel Michael as the presiding authority (the type) and it should be apparent that the appointed representative of the Savior from Verse 12:5 is the shadow. Also, that the church who fled in Rev. 12:6 is now the angels of Verse 12:7. That is, the appointed leader has with him the Savior's army as referenced at Rev. 17:14.
Since that war does not take place until after the 2nd beast that is the focus of that chapter, 17, wherein he is the 8th (Rev. 17:11), and is the false prophet of Rev. 13:11, and said war is highlighted in Rev. 14, then the war with the second beast takes place not in Chapter 12 but Chapter 14. I realize that this is a long way in getting to the point, but the war in Rev. 12:7 is not so much with the 1st beast, although it is that, but more specifically it is a war with the dragon, China.
The question then becomes, How does the appointed representative of the Savior engage that army against China? Please notice that the army is gathered (Rev. 17:14) prior to the fall of Babylon (Rev. 17:16).
My point is that nothing is going to happen until China makes her move.
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Post by Natalie on Feb 1, 2021 14:21:04 GMT -6
I am going to disagree with some of your interpretation  Chapter 12 tells us who the dragon is 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. So, Michael and his angels (angelic beings - not believers) fight against Satan and his angels (demonic forces). The "bad guys" have had access to heaven, but at some point they will be kicked out. My opinion is that they don't go easily and there is a war in the spiritual realm. I don't see any reason to make "angels" be the church. Can you support that with Scripture?
Do you have any Scripture to back up this interpretation: I know of nowhere that says Jesus is going to appoint someone to rule of the nations. There is, however, Scriptures that state Jesus will rule them. Daniel 7:13-14 for example.
The woman is Israel. The Messiah (the Male Child) came from Israel. It's the Jews who will flee to the wilderness under the demonically led persecution that's coming. God will supernaturally protect them. The "rest of her offspring" would be those who have come to believe in Jesus but are not of Jewish descent. (Jews/Jewish being descendants of all 12 sons of Jacob)
I guess I don't see the reason to interpret some of the things the way you did.
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Post by boraddict on Feb 5, 2021 23:33:51 GMT -6
Please consider Chapter 12 in the following chiasmus:
Rev. 12:1-5, the woman and the dragon
Rev. 12:6, exodus/rapture
Rev. 12:7-13, the war in heaven
Rev. 12:14, exodus/rapture
Rev. 12:15-17, the woman and the dragon
Please notice at Verse 12:11, "And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death." This verse is telling us that the war verses (vv. 12:7-13) are a shadow of the war in heaven; because, the war occurs after the death of the Savior and that the participants of the war were living mortal lives. Because of this evidence then the war verses are a type (the war in heaven) that are relating to a shadow (a war upon the earth). From this conclusion then Michael in the type (v. 12:7) relates to someone in the shadow.
Please notice that the dragon retaliates against the woman (Rev. 12:13) that brought forth the man child (Rev. 12:5) but the earth helped the woman (Rev. 12:16). This is further evidence that the woman is here upon the earth as is the man child that comes from the woman.
One method of analysis is to place the corresponding verses next to each other as follows:
Rev. 12:1-2, the woman, Rev. 12:10, the kingdom of our God
Rev. 12:3, the dragon, Rev. 12:11, they overcame him via the Savior
Rev. 12:4, the dragon's tail, Rev. 12:12, the devil has come down
Rev. 12:5, the woman brought forth the man child, Rev. 12:13
Rev. 12:6, exodus/rapture, Rev. 12:14
Rev. 12:7, the war, Rev. 12:15
Rev. 12:8, no place found in heaven, Rev. 12:16, the earth helped the woman
Rev. 12:9, the dragon was cast out, Rev. 12:17, the dragon made war with the remnant of her seed that has the testimony of Jesus
At Verses 1-9 the story is told that the woman and the dragon engaged in warfare and the dragon lost. Secondly, at Verses 10-17 a story of the war between the dragon and woman continues. Lastly, the dragon makes war with those having "the testimony of Jesus" which is the promise to the saints that they will live till Jesus comes.
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Post by disciple4life on Feb 20, 2021 19:30:32 GMT -6
Just a point to clarify- because these points both came up earlier in two posts.
@socal said "Covenant Theology is what the mainline Protestants believe, and basically those who believe in a non-futurist eschatology, and who believe that national Israel was replaced by the church."
Sort of- covenant theology or Reformed theology is Calvinism, its just a current, more hip-sounding rebranding, just like people now say "burgundy" but 40 years ago the same exact color was "maroon".
Presbyterians are indeed mainline Protestants, and they are the largest denomination which is Reformed theology, but there are other Mainline Protestants which are decidedly not Reformed- such as Methodists. They were formed by Wesley, and Lutherans also are mainline protestant but are not Cakvinist/reformed.
Also, a point of clarification on Dispensationalism. Most evangelical denominations in the USA are dispensational with Baptists being the largest Christian denomination that is Dispensational.
While most do Not believe in Replacement Theology [which is a commonly held by Reformed Theology/Calvinists] its more accurate to say they take a more literal approach to interpreting scripture overall. They tend to take scripture to mean what it plainly says like the verses that say Christ gave himself as a "ransom for all" and that "he is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice)- not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world".
But it's not the main feature or Hallmark. Rather, it's the view that there are specific eras or periods in History called dispensations that are marked by how God relates to his people-[most commonly-held view is that there are seven dispensations]
They believe Christ's death was literal and that he died for all mankind, all the world, all the unrighteous, that man has both free will and responsibility to accept and repent, and most teach a literal 1000 yr reign, and a literal physical rapture, though they differ greatly on the sequence of the events of Revelation [how it plays out].
These are just a small sample of the majority of dispensational denominations in the USA-
Southern Baptists
Freewill Baptists,
independent Baptists, [every group except reformed]
Nazarenes,
Wesleyans,
Pentecostals,
All non-Pentecostal Holiness groups,
Lutherans,
United Methodists,
Bible Methodists,
Christian Missionary Alliance,
Most Fundamentalists,
7th Day Adventists,
Church of God,
Charismatics,
Calvary Chapel,and many Evangelical Free Church of America.
So we're talking the vast majority of Protestant Christianity in the world.
While there is a strong correlation between replacement theology and reformed theology, it should be noted that not every person or reformed church believes in replacement theology, but it is certainly the exception.
Think of the cars on the highway- the ones that use gas or diesel are Dispensational and the ones that run on electricity are covenant theology.
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Post by Natalie on Feb 21, 2021 7:33:16 GMT -6
Yep you can't lump everyone in the same package... My church is Baptist with a Calvinistic leaning pastor (although he doesn't preach like it) who is definitely not a Replacement theologist. My Sunday School teacher is more vocal in his Calvinist beliefs, and he is also very vocal is reminding people that the Church and Israel is separate and God's not done with them. |
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Post by disciple4life on Feb 21, 2021 9:42:13 GMT -6
Amen- agreed 100% Natalie. I hope you didn't feel that I was doing that.
My intent was to clarify re Dispensational theology and that under this huge huge umbrella, there are literally scores of denominations with diverse theological views, from everything to salvation to baptism, creation and end times.
The greatest common denominator is not that we interpret every thing literally, but rather the framework or lens of looking at all of history and the Bible based on how God relates to the world and his people, in the different dispensations.
The entire concept of the current"church age" or "age of grace" and the belief in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ [millennium] is the best example of Dispensationalism.
Blessings,and Maranatha,
Disciple4life
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Post by Natalie on Feb 21, 2021 12:33:39 GMT -6
I was just agreeing with you and posting for the benefit of some I know who are of the Reformed persuasion. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 15, 2021 18:40:38 GMT -6
When Trump first gained office, he travelled to all the world leaders country's and made them submit to his leadership. First, to Saudi Arabia, where he met with the leaders, with his wife (which is taboo) and afterward they did a ceremony in which Trump held the King's sword! That is only ever allowed to be carried by the king. If you watch the video of the ceremony, the king appears in pain the entire time, he's beside himself. Not long after he went there, the king was imprisoned in a motel and the prince took over. When the prince came to America afterwards, he was going to the concert in Vegas. Trump warned him that an attempt was to be made on his life and spirited him away. We all know what happened then. (the mass shooting). Following this, the prince visited Trump at the white house and he praised him and vowed his allegiance publicly. Immediately after, he went to all the heads of the major media companies and "talked" to them. (passing on Trumps message).
He also went to see the royal family in England, where he met "behind closed doors", after which, he completely disrespected the royal family in public, by ignoring them as they spoke to him, walking past and in front of them, then ignoring the princes calls to him and walking directly up to the royal guard (who are not to speak) and talked and laughed with them publicly.
He also met with Putin, after which they had a press conference where Putin gave him a soccer ball from the Russian olympics and stated that the ball was in his court now.
He also went to the World Leaders Summit, where he was very late and made all the leaders wait on him, which they were highly upset about, but didn't publicly admonish him for. There he arrived late, rudely pushed past the leaders and took center stage for the photo op. Nobody said a word to him about it. They just tight lipped and took it.
He travelled to Israel as well, met with prime minister, after which he was again praised as a great friend to Israel.
He went to China and met with Xing, after which a banquet was held in his honor and Xing publically walked with trump showing support.
The same with North Korea, even after being called little rocket man, Kim Jong Un ceased his weapons testing and supported Trump.
This was done with all the world leaders.
He then went to the Vatican, and after a short conversation, he made the pope put on his "red shoes" (symbolizing something we won't go into now), but it was public supplication to Trump.
Now he has a "coalition" of the most powerful leaders in the world, all answering to him! When trump takes office again, if he even bothers too, he will be the most powerful man in the history of the world.
As a supposed christian, (which I can prove is false as well) when is it ever considered godly to not only beat your opponent, but humiliate them as well?
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Post by fitz on Mar 16, 2021 18:12:30 GMT -6
Hi lionofgod and welcome to the forum! So, it sounds like you are saying that Pope Frank signaled his allegiance to Trump rather than Christ by wearing the Red Papal shoes? And, possibly for the first (and only) time as it appears he didn't adopt that tradition and chose to wear black shoes instead. Interesting information! Thank you. Very interesting in light of the throngs of Trump worshipers predicting his return to power is imminent! Massive worldwide cult-like following. It's downright creepy. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 16, 2021 23:26:17 GMT -6
Hi lionofgod and welcome to the forum! So, it sounds like you are saying that Pope Frank signaled his allegiance to Trump rather than Christ by wearing the Red Papal shoes? And, possibly for the first (and only) time as it appears he didn't adopt that tradition and chose to wear black shoes instead. Interesting information! Thank you. Very interesting in light of the throngs of Trump worshipers predicting his return to power is imminent! Massive worldwide cult-like following. It's downright creepy. Thanks! I have a unique perspective here I think. The Lord removed my scales a few months back, Since the moment of my salvation, or my accepting it, the Holy spirit has revealed truth to me daily, sometimes hourly. Took a while to make sense of it all. It's AWESOME! Like my own personal lie detector and guide. Anyway, before this I was an avid Trump supporter, from the get go. I was part of the whole Q movement. So, I know things that are supposed to be in his support, but now it is so obvious what is going on! A lot is really weird and evil. I'm not sure how much to post, as I am afraid most wouldn't believe and think me a nut job. LOL But for starters, the pope is a pedophile, they have "abhorrent" parties. The papal "police" have been bringing children in and out for along time. Gross, I know. But one of the many vile things I was as a younger man was a friend to some witches. I know creepy. But I know what symbols mean what in a lot of the satanic circles, etc. For example, the robes he wears, look at the design adornments. You'll see a repeating "triangle" shape. That's indicative of preferring little boys. there have always been reports of abducted kids around the Vatican, but guess who is in charge of investigating? The same police who are providing the children! Its the same as the "pizza gate" symbols from Hillary Clintons scandal that was washed away, as well as hundreds of others. Red shoes is a symbol as well, which is why Trump made him change shoes. Everyone who knew the symbolism, would know the meaning. Since I'm on the Vatican, here's another disgusting biblical fact for ya. The Vatican is the whore of Babylon. If you look at pictures of the entrance, It's a large circle with a statue of a pregnant woman at the center, then look at the lines that proceed from her to the large pillars and surrounds, each leads to a statue along the upper part, each statue is of a man in various naked ness posing in lewd ways, waiting to take his turn. There is much, much more, but that's one of the obvious things everyone just looks right at and ever sees! There are 150 miles of tunnels below the Vatican, till trump sent special forces to take it all, there was "trillions of dollars in gold under there along with all manners of antiquities. If your not ready to call me a crazy conspiracy nut, I'll share more insane things you won't believe until things begin, then it won't matter. FYI- i am 53 and disabled so I've had hundreds of hours to sit and research this stuff. But now that I know (through the spirit) that it's end times. I gave it up, I deleted more info thsn most will ever see before it's to late. Also, Epstien brokered the sale of Melania to Trump as a wife, seen disgusting pics of that stuff too. They were best buds for 15 years. Guess who else has tunnels under their home? Trumps mar alago has bunkers built below! He and Epstien and the Clintons hav had some vile parties there. Trump wouldn't fly to the island, keeps everything close to him. Theres hundreds of articles over the years, but nobody seems to care. they get "discredited" by the media, the same one Everyone is just finding out has been lying to everyone. Thats another story. FBI files released in secret. But you can see them if you know what and where to look. Also I have copied shots of The patents on Covid, from 2015 and 2017, before it even existed supposedly. The info people never bother to investigate is staggering to the mind! Datan tells us his plans, but we all just ignore it among all the other disgusting news. |
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Post by boraddict on Mar 17, 2021 7:14:16 GMT -6
Hi lionofgod , are you new to scripture or do you have a long background in the study? What books of scripture do you prefer to work from or do you have a favorite? I have been thinking about dissecting one of the chapters in Isaiah (40) especially since it contains an "eagle" reference (Isa. 40:31) that dovetails into one of my recent posts. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 17, 2021 12:41:49 GMT -6
I was well read in my younger days, but I turned away. but the Lord brought mr back in my salvation. I have the message down, but quoting scripture isn't my strong suit. Every time the Holy spirit gives nw a message, I look it up in scripture, and sure enough it has never failed to be there! When I was active in my studies, I was blessed with many great teachers, A few only read out of the Hebrew or Greek texts, so I got a lot of great insights from them. Also at a young age, 14 or so, I had been brought up in a duality of religions. My dad's side was Roman Catholic, my mom's was southern baptist. Talk about confusion! So I decided to seek God out, I attended most all churches over a period of years, so I was "indoctrinated" into a lot of different doctrines and dogmas and beliefs. I toyed with Judaism, but wasn't willing to commit at a younger age. I nearly gave up and went to live with Quaker's too. LOL I even had a period where I was befriended by a member of a witch coven, who tried to pull me into the fold. He gave me a copy of the Satanic Bible and some other books. Thank God that I never committed to that! So I have real world "studied/experienced" most modern religions first hand. But I'm far from a "scholar" of theology. In fact the Holy spirit has shown me more truth and revealed more to me in the past few months than I learned in my entire lifetime of searching! Praise God! I don't really have a favorite, I love and am fascinated by it all! But I do tend to enjoy the ancient writings and the history that comes with the knowledge of the events leading up to Jesus coming to establish his kingdom here. Ironically, I know that his covenant is the one most pertinent to us today, so I strive to follow in his example. Since he taught from the old manuscripts, I enjoy those most. I use both the KJV and the original Septuagint w/Apocrypha as well as other texts and manuscripts. Isaiah is great, hard to pick a favorite. Revelation is obviously one to be studying in this day, but so are the rest. LOL
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 17, 2021 13:09:45 GMT -6
I was led to look at the calendars last night, found some interesting stuff. May be old news to most, but thought I'd share just incase. I recently re-read the book of Enoch. It wasn't included in the bible because it's provenance couldn't be confirmed. There were no surviving texts from Enoch's era and it was apparently handed down the ancient way by one generation to the next. so there are some wording arguments. But it does follow scripture exceedingly well with a few exceptions, even after all that time. Like many ancient writings, some minor translator issues, but the message is the same. Anyway, I reasoned that since that was one of the older known writings and it came out of Ethiopia, I'd look at Ethiopia and Jewish. Amazing stuff! This era in the Ethiopian calendar is known as Amete Alem and in the Jewish calendar it is the era of Erao. So as the spirit has instructed me from day one, I look to everything's most base origin to find it's truth, just as all things originate from the Father. I tend not to use "modern" dictionaries because the names and meanings of words are changed every year in some cases. So I usually go to the 1828 Webster's. It nearly always actually uses scripture to define most words.Best I could find out was that the era Amete alem is "years of the world" and the era Erao is basically the point in time of appointed time, or point on time of points in time etc. Rather prophetic I would say! 2021 is certainly a huge bullseye for something scriptural, not hard to see it is revelation, IMHO.
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 17, 2021 13:48:17 GMT -6
I also was a follower of the "Q" movement before, so I have much insight into some of todays goings on. I won't just tell it, because it is rather unbelievable if you don't discover the truth yourself, but if you want more ties to revelation and the modern day, I suggest looking into a bunch of the "unclassified" things that Trump released before leaving office! Satan can't help but brag on his deeds. His arrogance makes finding things much easier if you know where and what to look for! read up on these, and be ready to have your hair stand on end. These are actual government doc.s, not some conspiracy nuts rantings. Projects "Mockingbird","Looking Glass", "Monarch", and "Lifelog"(the real facebook original program developed by UD intel and then terminated the same time "facebook" began)-BTW original investors for FB were creators of Lifelog, coincidence? Also "prism" program. Then is you really want some insane truths, look into "Cloneaid" and it's competitors, who actually clone humans! If you aren't writing me off as crazy, and you look into these, there is much more to be seen. Biblical prophesy has been happening right before our eyes, but we didn't know where or how to look for it. Media controls the narrative/information and the government controls them. Who do you have left to turn to but God?! I apologize for the mental anguish your going to receive from all this, but waking up to the evil is a painful but freeing experience, once you see, you will always see. Seek and you shall find. But, not all will see, this is a difficult pill to swallow! But God is truth, so see the truth, even if it hurts, I promise that if you can, you will come closer to God.
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