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Post by sog on Mar 29, 2021 7:08:55 GMT -6
Headline: U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspxFrom link - Americans' membership in houses of worship continued to decline last year, dropping below 50% for the first time in Gallup's eight-decade trend. In 2020, 47% of Americans said they belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque, down from 50% in 2018 and 70% in 1999. U.S. church membership was 73% when Gallup first measured it in 1937 and remained near 70% for the next six decades, before beginning a steady decline around the turn of the 21st century. The decline in church membership is primarily a function of the increasing number of Americans who express no religious preference. Over the past two decades, the percentage of Americans who do not identify with any religion has grown from 8% in 1998-2000 to 13% in 2008-2010 and 21% over the past three years. As would be expected, Americans without a religious preference are highly unlikely to belong to a church, synagogue or mosque, although a small proportion -- 4% in the 2018-2020 data -- say they do. That figure is down from 10% between 1998 and 2000.  2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, ~ 20+% decrease since the turn of the century. How much worse will it get? |
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Post by Gary on Mar 29, 2021 12:34:38 GMT -6
Not sure how much this factors in, but the Church has also changed quite a bit since the 20th century. It's far less denominational. A plurality of Christians attend without placing membership and/or attend multiple churches.
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Post by sog on May 21, 2021 9:32:08 GMT -6
The falling away continues... Headline: Survey: 43% of Millennials ‘Don’t Know, Care, or Believe God Exists’ www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/05/20/survey-43-millennials-dont-know-care-believe-god-exists/from link - The American Worldview Inventory (AWVI) 2021, an annual survey that examines the perspectives of adults aged 18 and over in the United States, found that while 57 percent of Millennials (born 1984-2002) consider themselves to be Christian, 43 percent “don’t know, care, or believe that God exists.” ... Comparatively, 70 percent of Generation X (Gen X) Americans (born 1965-1983), 79 percent of Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964), and 83 percent of the Builder Generation (born 1927-1945) consider themselves to be Christian, while 31, 28, and 27 percent, respectively, “don’t know, care, or believe that God exists.” |
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 25, 2021 8:57:11 GMT -6
Found this yesterday and thought everyone would benefit from it.
"through all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the Spirit, and in this, watching in all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones—" Eph 6:18 LSV
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 26, 2021 11:35:57 GMT -6
It is always amazing to me how God does things. My sibling/spiritual brother is who introduced me to Andy Woods over a year ago. Over the Memorial weekend we got a chance to talk face to face and he was telling me how (and I'm paraphrasing here) the elders in the congregation he attends had suggested that he steer away from so much rapture talk. That there was one member that felt there was too much doom and gloom. That the church needed to teach more on love and brotherhood etc. A 'feel good' doctrine, if you will. And so the church catered to that one man and eased in to a different format. When I found this video last week, I sent it too him and, needless to say, he was amazed. Not only for the message, but for the timing of it. His own congregation was experiencing a 'moving away from a former truth'.
It breaks my heart to know this is happening, but it is also another sign on the road to Jesus' retun.
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 20, 2021 22:47:46 GMT -6
I recently had to stop attending the only church close enough for me to get to. It saddened me greatly. As someone with physical handicaps/blessings, I have already spent the better part of 10 years more or less homebound. Getting back to the church was a nice outlet for me socially and spiritually.
But I began to notice a disturbing trend, the sermons seemed to be getting more about the pastors interpretations of scripture than what scripture actually says. At first I just pulled him aside and asked questions, mostly small things, which he actually confessed to believing as well. This was strange as he would preach a different message than he professed. Then there was a sermon one Sunday on the benefits of righteous anger. How anger was a good thing and we were supposed to channel it. It was rather unsettling, and mostly Old Testament references. The next Sunday, the sermon was on women, and their place in church and home, how they were not to teach and etc. I pointed out that Paul had female disciples and he glossed over it. Then he began to mention things that he said were "cultural" in scripture and those were not meant to be followed. The next Sunday, 4th of July, I had to just walk out. The sermon began with quoting from the founding fathers, and elaborating on what great men they were, then praising the early pastors, whom he said were the reason for the revolutionary war. This continued into the end times and who the antichrist could be, where he outright said that Obama, Biden and all the modern folks couldn't be the AC because they had poor polls! Then he made light of Jesus turning the other cheek, saying that was what to do if it were just a slap. I spoke up and pointed out about Jesus saying his people don't fight and that he didn't lift a finger when he was beaten. His response was sure, because he had to be crucified. Then pointed out that he told the apostles to carry swords. Then he even went so far as to say that if someone were to break into his home, he would take his gun and send them to Jesus and stand before Him and be justified! I got up and walked out then, but later heard that that was the most liked sermon he had given in a long time! I now go in to do bible study before church, then come home before the sermons, which makes things difficult at home, as my dad is an elder at the church and has the same political and religious views as the pastor does. The church has gone off the rocker. I noticed the first day that they say the Roman Catholic version of the Lords prayer, not the one from scripture, I pointed this out to the Pastor, who didn't believe me, so he grabbed hid bible and looked. Then he looked surprised and said, we have to change this then don't we. That was 4 months or so ago, I asked my dad Sunday if they had changed it yet and he said no. Things are getting sad when you go to church to get preached the word of the world, wrapped in God's name.
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Post by venge on Jul 21, 2021 6:40:08 GMT -6
You should probably pray for the Pastor and the church. Christ is the prince of peace, not the sword. He is distorting the gospel. Whoever lives by the sword, dies by the sword. We are to be like sheep, not wolves. Harmless as doves. And yes, if we are attacked love our attackers; even if they hurt the ones we love. We aren’t to seek retribution in the form of “Lex Taliones” or an eye for an eye. Vengeance belongs to God alone. There is no salt and light in war, hate and blood shed. In the messianic kingdom, they will no longer teach war. How then does this Pastor preach war for his flock?
You cannot know God if you don’t know the son. And if you don’t know the son, you are not part of his family.
In Matthew 26, Jesus rebukes one of the twelve:
52Then Jesus says to him, “Turn back your sword to its place; for all who took the sword will perish by the sword
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
1 commentator says it perfectly:
These words of Christ are not to be understood literally, that he would have his disciples furnish themselves with swords at any rate, since he would never have said, as he afterwards does, that two were sufficient; which could not be enough for eleven men; or have forbid Peter the use of one, as he did in a very little time after this: but his meaning is, that wherever they came, and a door was opened for the preaching of the Gospel, they would have many adversaries, and these powerful, and would be used with great violence, and be followed with rage and persecution; so that they might seem to stand in need of swords to defend them: the phrase is expressive of the danger they would be exposed to, and of their need of protection; and therefore it was wrong in them to be disputing and quarrelling about superiority, or looking out for, and expecting temporal pomp and grandeur, when this would be their forlorn, destitute, and afflicted condition; and they would quickly see the affliction and distress begin in himself. In "seven" ancient copies of Beza's, it is read in the future tense, "he shall take, he shall sell, he shall buy".
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 10:48:40 GMT -6
You should probably pray for the Pastor and the church. I do and have been, this was my first thought. Christ is the prince of peace, not the sword. He is distorting the gospel. Agreed. This is why I don't any longer stay for the sermon.Whoever lives by the sword, dies by the sword. We are to be like sheep, not wolves. Harmless as doves. And yes, if we are attacked love our attackers; even if they hurt the ones we love. We aren’t to seek retribution in the form of “Lex Taliones” or an eye for an eye. Vengeance belongs to God alone. There is no salt and light in war, hate and blood shed. In the messianic kingdom, they will no longer teach war. How then does this Pastor preach war for his flock? Thank you! You are mimicking my thoughts and what I addressed to the pastor privately and in emails.You cannot know God if you don’t know the son. And if you don’t know the son, you are not part of his family. The message preached is a very worldly type of "shades of grey" message, not a "God or evil" message, though that is occasionally preached within.In Matthew 26, Jesus rebukes one of the twelve: 52Then Jesus says to him, “Turn back your sword to its place; for all who took the sword will perish by the sword. I used this very quote, as well as the ones to Pilate and the verse where he specifies the reason for having them carry the sword was "to be numbered with the transgressors" or to paraphrase, to fulfill scripture. Not that he desired them to use it. He actually rebukes them after Peter does.Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. This is another I quoted. Unfortunately, while he seemed to agree with what I pointed out in private, he still preaches a different message. They are now carrying guns in the church. My father included. And promoting defending yourself and etc. as if it were God's desire for us to do so. Politics seems to be a common theme too, with definite negativity towards democrats. The community is predominately retired people and middle aged, who are eating this stuff up, it gives them license to not feel guilty about wanting war and seeking harm to those they either politically or culturally dislike. Then they pray for said people after. Thoroughly mixed messages and not scriptural. I really tried to overlook much of this for a time, but cannot keep exposing myself to false teachings.1 commentator says it perfectly: These words of Christ are not to be understood literally, that he would have his disciples furnish themselves with swords at any rate, since he would never have said, as he afterwards does, that two were sufficient; which could not be enough for eleven men; or have forbid Peter the use of one, as he did in a very little time after this: but his meaning is, that wherever they came, and a door was opened for the preaching of the Gospel, they would have many adversaries, and these powerful, and would be used with great violence, and be followed with rage and persecution; so that they might seem to stand in need of swords to defend them: the phrase is expressive of the danger they would be exposed to, and of their need of protection; and therefore it was wrong in them to be disputing and quarrelling about superiority, or looking out for, and expecting temporal pomp and grandeur, when this would be their forlorn, destitute, and afflicted condition; and they would quickly see the affliction and distress begin in himself. In "seven" ancient copies of Beza's, it is read in the future tense, "he shall take, he shall sell, he shall buy". Very good commentary, this is the way I read it too. Thanks. |
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Post by Natalie on Jul 21, 2021 11:52:47 GMT -6
I know that people can have some really strong feelings on this. I feel like there is a big difference between being persecuted for my faith versus someone coming in to my house to harm me. I do not believe that it is wrong to defend yourself against the second. I do not believe it would be wrong to defend a church against a person coming in to see how many people they can kill/harm. I would not hesitate to step in and defend my child against someone who is trying to rape or murder them. (Does Exodus 22:2 suggest that a person may defend their house against a thief?) But I do not think we should want war or to fight against things politically or culturally that we dislike. (Our church fights by praying for the President, Vice President, and others in charge) Our Pastor is going through Matthew on Sunday mornings. We just finished the sermon on the Mount. He explained the "eye for an eye" and the slap on the cheek. In context, Jesus had been showing them how they were misusing the Law and what they should be doing instead. The basis is Exodus 21:23-25 and Lev 24:19-20. It's also an honor/shame culture. It had gotten to be such that "You did this to me, so I'm going to do that". Instead, we are to not retaliate against insults and the like. Being slapped on the cheek was equal to saying the person is weak.
servantofthelord , I know we will disagree on this and I am going to back out of this conversation because it's not really an argument I feel like getting into. I have too many other things on my plate right now. But I did a search of the boards and see that you and I have already gone back and forth on this topic, and we do not agree on these verses. And I am fine with that.
Here's Greg Laurie on that section of the Sermon on the Mount. Can start at about 26 minutes:
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 13:49:38 GMT -6
I know that people can have some really strong feelings on this. I feel like there is a big difference between being persecuted for my faith versus someone coming in to my house to harm me. I do not believe that it is wrong to defend yourself against the second. I do not believe it would be wrong to defend a church against a person coming in to see how many people they can kill/harm. I would not hesitate to step in and defend my child against someone who is trying to rape or murder them. (Does Exodus 22:2 suggest that a person may defend their house against a thief?) But I do not think we should want war or to fight against things politically or culturally that we dislike. (Our church fights by praying for the President, Vice President, and others in charge) Our Pastor is going through Matthew on Sunday mornings. We just finished the sermon on the Mount. He explained the "eye for an eye" and the slap on the cheek. In context, Jesus had been showing them how they were misusing the Law and what they should be doing instead. The basis is Exodus 21:23-25 and Lev 24:19-20. It's also an honor/shame culture. It had gotten to be such that "You did this to me, so I'm going to do that". Instead, we are to not retaliate against insults and the like. Being slapped on the cheek was equal to saying the person is weak.
servantofthelord , I know we will disagree on this and I am going to back out of this conversation because it's not really an argument I feel like getting into. I have too many other things on my plate right now. But I did a search of the boards and see that you and I have already gone back and forth on this topic, and we do not agree on these verses. And I am fine with that.
No problem, I'm okay with disagreeing. I have offered to others, not on this forum , I don't believe, but aside from the Old Testament, is there any verses you can cite where Jesus EVER advocates violence, for ANY reason? If so, I'm happy to have a look. Outside that, I'm cool with agreeing to see things differently. I can respect an opinion I don't hold, provided it is not portrayed as THE right one, or only one, type thing. I have no doubt you understand this, as I see your conflict resolution skills are admirable and in my estimation, you seem to use you words/language seeming to always lean toward unity over division.
Be blessed |
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