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Post by rt on Feb 12, 2020 9:26:53 GMT -6
Just want to add, that apostasy is not something new, it has been going on since the church began, just read the letters to the churches in the Revelation, and you can see how people followed what was false within the body of the local churches. Paul wrote often in his epistles warning the church to beware of false teachers. It was bad then, maybe even worse than today. We see our western churches failing to teach the whole truth of God's word and that seems very discouraging to us, but they had people openly practicing idolatry within their ranks, it had to be very discouraging for those who held to the truth among them.
We look at the church through the lens of our own experience, living in our western culture, where we have the freedom to worship and no fear of persecution. Where many of us have had the doctrines of the faith and the gospel declared wonderfully from the pulpits of our past. So to us, what we see happening today seems really bad, as we see the gospel watered down, as we see the church adopt the ways of the world, and yes even false teachings. I have no doubt that we are moving ever closer to the day when we will gain the glory of Christ.
But our hope despite it all is in Christ:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 13:13:32 GMT -6
I cannot imagine the response when people are left behind. How many will turn from their church? I suspect there will certainly be a second kind of falling away when the scope of the departure is known.
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Post by Gary on Feb 12, 2020 16:19:31 GMT -6
RT, really good write up on the restrainer! Bingo.
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Post by rt on Feb 12, 2020 17:45:05 GMT -6
RT, really good write up on the restrainer! Bingo. Gary, thank you! That means a lot to me! |
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Post by rt on Feb 12, 2020 17:49:24 GMT -6
I cannot imagine the response when people are left behind. How many will turn from their church? I suspect there will certainly be a second kind of falling away when the scope of the departure is known. I think there will be more people left in the pews than we think. I believe some will understand what has happened and will turn to Christ and be saved, while others will be deceived and fall for the lying signs and wonders of the antichrist. One thing I am sure of is that the world will never be the same afterward. |
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 8, 2020 10:49:41 GMT -6
In the thread about the pope, I referenced 2 Thess. 2:3, "Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed." I'm not convinced in my mind which way to translate the "falling away", or "rebellion", or whatever. However, in my comment in that thread I was leaning toward a falling away as in people leaving the faith. This morning on my list of suggested videos on YT, this video was listed. I've never heard of Wretched Radio before, but I found it rather entertaining. If his numbers are correct, how easy would it be to persuade weak Christians into following a global type religion and abandoning the true gospel? And if the AC is as elegant with his tongue as Satan is purported to be, then this guy is going to be very pragmatic. "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." 2 Cor. 11:14-15
edit:I'm sorry, I didn't include the video I referenced. whoops.
I agree with rt, I think there will be quite a few people left in the pews of the churches looking around in fear and terror. I feel bad for them, but then won't these be the first 'tribulation saints'? Those that repent anyway.
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Post by socalexile on Apr 8, 2020 17:59:54 GMT -6
In the thread about the pope, I referenced 2 Thess. 2:3, "Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed." I'm not convinced in my mind which way to translate the "falling away", or "rebellion", or whatever. However, in my comment in that thread I was leaning toward a falling away as in people leaving the faith. This morning on my list of suggested videos on YT, this video was listed. I've never heard of Wretched Radio before, but I found it rather entertaining. If his numbers are correct, how easy would it be to persuade weak Christians into following a global type religion and abandoning the true gospel? And if the AC is as elegant with his tongue as Satan is purported to be, then this guy is going to be very pragmatic. "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." 2 Cor. 11:14-15
edit:I'm sorry, I didn't include the video I referenced. whoops.
I agree with rt, I think there will be quite a few people left in the pews of the churches looking around in fear and terror. I feel bad for them, but then won't these be the first 'tribulation saints'? Those that repent anyway.
Just a heads up: Wretched is a heavily Calvinist, Lordship Salvation channel. The guy regularly accuses Christians of what he does himself also. |
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 8, 2020 18:10:03 GMT -6
oh! well that's not good!  |
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Post by disciple4life on Apr 8, 2020 20:58:29 GMT -6
Hello friends, and a very blessed passover to you. I agree, stormyknight, socalexile. There are tens of thousands of people who grew up in church, hearing about the rapture, who never really put their trust in Christ. And tens of thousands more who still go to church, check the box, and they have been deluded by the teachers who teach a "carte blanche" [blank check/ fire insurance False doctrine. While it may be true that in a few isolated cases the word Apostasia can be translated as departure, rapture it is explicitly clear that in the classic passage- this is not the case. How can we be sure?? 1. The overall context of this passage is talking about false teachers who lead people astray. 2. The verse itself leaves no room for twisting this to mean harpazo. 1 Timothy 4:1 ESV Some Will Depart from the Faith 1. "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.". Then, I've read posts and articles people trying to make the case and they give examples of how and why the Greek can mean physical catching away, but they ignore the fact that Paul and other NT writers use the word "Adokimos" This Greek word is translated as "Rejected concerning the faith", as "reprobate" in several other passages, and "castaway". They ignore the clear teaching of Christ himself who said that the prodigal son was "dead and lost in his sins, and was alive again", and Christ himself who said that every branch "in me, that does not abide, [stay, literally "make your home"] in me will be cut off, cast into the fire and burned." Paul said explicitly to some in the church of Galatia- "You have fallen from Grace" and John wrote in Revelation- Christ saying to the lukewarm church in Laodacia that he would vomit them out of his mouth. These pastors will be left behind and the truth will be clear to thousands. Come Lord Jesus. Disciple4Life |
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 9, 2020 7:35:28 GMT -6
I found this when I googled hermeneutics:
What is the difference between exegesis and hermeneutics? The distinction between exegesis and hermeneutics is a thin line. ... Hermeneutics is therefore the field of study which is concerned with how we interpret the Bible, whereas exegesis is the actual interpretation of the Bible by drawing the meaning out of the Biblical text.
I'm thinking this is where we must pray and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide us in the truth. We must search and know what the actual words mean and can mean, but we must also know how they are used in context. In this case, I'm convinced you are right, disciple4life, not only by the translation/interpretation, but by the evidence of the lack of knowledge of those who attend church services around the world. They know they should be there, they want to be seen being there, but they lack the oil in their jars, the Holy Spirit that dwells within a true believer, and so when our Lord and Savior comes, will say, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ Matt. 25:12
Now is the time to top off your jars! May our Lord Jesus find us all with jars full and overflowing with oil!!
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Post by mike on Apr 9, 2020 10:37:17 GMT -6
disciple4life said: I love the way you phrased this and thank you for helping me see clearer on the subject with the simple use of terms. Making my home in Him is a key to Christianity as I observe it and those who say they are Christian yet constantly take His name in vain and live lives as ungodly. Now I am not casting stones or judging but for me, I prefer to fall on the side of making my home in Him as a life with Godliness is far greater than a life without! there are at least 2 billion that identify as Christian, but likely most of those do not apply the Word to their lives or make their home in Him. stormyknight said: Totally agree! We also have others areas of the body, used by the Holy Spirit to sharpen each other. Much like D4L was used in the above as confirmation in me 
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 9, 2020 12:52:04 GMT -6
I'm wondering how difficult it would be if we could put together a coherent timeline verse by verse. I don't think I've ever seen one before in the manner of which I thinking. I've seen plenty like this:(this is just an example)
What I'm talking about would be like this:(and I would invite everyone to copy this and use it as a starting point and place verses where they should go)
"rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3
"the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3
" the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52
"we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52
"the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52
" the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30
"the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2
What verses go in between those verses? What verses need to be added and in what order? The verses can come from the old or new testament, but need to be just the description of the single event. If a verse has more than one event in it, put those events in order on it's own line. I know there is more that happens after the Day of the Lord and more that happened before my first verse posted, but I think we are right at or very near to that first verse in time.
Is this something we could accomplish here? I think we could. We might ruffle some feathers, but the truth is in the scripture and the scripture is infallible. So if we work together, we could lay out a verse by verse timeline and all come to the same understanding with and by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
edit: I know "the last trumpet" is out of order. I did that on purpose to show how it needs to be edited.
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 9, 2020 12:59:27 GMT -6
oh, and please please please, if you have an argument as to why one verse should go in one place and not in another, show your proof from scripture. X goes here, because this verse says it happens before Y or after W. Other verses may fit around the verse you place and make things even clearer. rt , boymaker , Gary , stormyknight , socalexile , disciple4life , mike , |
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Post by mike on Apr 9, 2020 13:03:04 GMT -6
oh, and please please please, if you have an argument as to why one verse should go in one place and not in another, show your proof from scripture. X goes here, because this verse says it happens before Y or after W. Other verses may fit around the verse you place and make things even clearer. rt , boymaker , Gary , stormyknight , socalexile , disciple4life , mike , Doesnt rt have something like around here already? Perhaps venge does too in his compilation of notes  |
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Post by disciple4life on Apr 9, 2020 15:52:25 GMT -6
Hello friends, stormyknight, man, i love the idea of a verse by verse timeline. I don't want to highjack rt's thread. While it would be a great goal and accomplishment it's very complicated/ tricky. One factor is that people have different understandings of the Day of the Lord vs Day of Christ. Some see these as two names for the same event, and others see the Day of Crist as the rapture and Day of the Lord as Second coming. Then there are the myriads of views regarding the sequence of events themselves in relation to the 70th week [ 7 year tribulation]. Perhaps you could give some guidelines or clarify. Do you mean like from where we are now, to the harpazo, or revealing of AC. ?? |
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