Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 18:55:17 GMT -6
Hello! New here. I have been looking hard for a rapture forum for a year or so. I was all but chased off one group because I am reformed and evidently that makes me a heretic. So I'm a bit gun shy.
The question posed is this: We ARE having a massive falling away from both church attendance and true faith in first world countries. However, our Heavenly family is growing exponentially amid persecution every else. As the Bible isn't about the US, are we seeing ENOUGH apathy across the board to consider it a great falling away.
Or, as I read here earlier while browsing threads, is there a valid belief that the Rapture is the Apostasy?
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 26, 2020 19:23:56 GMT -6
Welcome and good questions.  (You won't be chased off for being reformed, but there are some of us here that think that position has problems. But that would be for another time and thread ) |
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Jan 27, 2020 8:45:03 GMT -6
I wouldn't equate a drop in "church attendance" with apostasy. I (and millions more) have left the organized church (what we in the West call "church") for good, but I have not renounced my faith in Christ, nor will I.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 27, 2020 9:18:18 GMT -6
I wouldn't equate a drop in "church attendance" with apostasy. I (and millions more) have left the organized church (what we in the West call "church") for good, but I have not renounced my faith in Christ, nor will I. Agree brother. I left a church and eventually came to an apostate state (say that fast 5 times!). But thanks and praise be to God for removing the blinders from eyes and softening my heart to return to HIM and not a building. I am committed to HIM and HIS ways, not the ways of men. Hang around with us a little boymaker...you may be challenged to question things you once held tightly. I know I have  |
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Jan 27, 2020 10:19:09 GMT -6
welcome, boymaker, always good to see another new face. I'm going to echo others in that, no, you won't get chased away. But, I can say, if anything, this place will definitely help your faith grow.
It's hard to say what would be a big enough drop to be considered 'the apostasy', if that's what that verse means.
While a drop in attendance doesn't necessarily mean a loss of belief/faith, there is a considerable increase in atheism. 17% to 26% in ten years for atheism, agnostic, and 'unaffiliated' is a fairly sharp increase.
But then all that is moot if the verse in question is referring to the rapture. Maybe we'll know in a day or two. The 'Deal of the Century' looks like it's going to get announced tomorrow, maybe? Waiting with nervous excitement here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 17:51:45 GMT -6
Y'all are adorbs.
Found this site while looking for info on the Conception Comet.
|
|
Joe
Layman
Posts: 93
|
Post by Joe on Jan 29, 2020 13:35:33 GMT -6
The "falling away" is the Church taking on new ideas, like excepting all no matter their sins or religion. One world religion and acceptance. It also means to leave the church/faith and follow worldly things. How many have been disappointed by false rapture dates over the years and said this is never going to happen? Watch out for false prophets as they can wear out your spirit. The anti-Christ spirit is alive in many whether they know it or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Jan 29, 2020 18:36:02 GMT -6
Hello! New here. I have been looking hard for a rapture forum for a year or so. I was all but chased off one group because I am reformed and evidently that makes me a heretic. So I'm a bit gun shy.
The question posed is this: We ARE having a massive falling away from both church attendance and true faith in first world countries. However, our Heavenly family is growing exponentially amid persecution every else. As the Bible isn't about the US, are we seeing ENOUGH apathy across the board to consider it a great falling away.
Or, as I read here earlier while browsing threads, is there a valid belief that the Rapture is the Apostasy? Hello again Boymaker,
I also concur with the others that you won't be chased off here for that. There are lots of people from very different backgrounds and very different views. I see us as a family with lots of faults, but helping each other and encouraging each other as we all watch and long for the Second Advent. ;-)
I also agree that we can't use church attendance as a litmos test for being Christian, nor can we use the decline as the litmos test of falling away.
No one on this forum thinks they have it all figured out [well, almost no-one] hehehe. We share ideas and challenge each other when we see holes.
There's also lots of room to disagree - as there are so many things about end times that are just a mystery. "Now we see through a glass dimly, but then, face to face. We know in part and we prophesy in part. ..." I Cor 13.
I'm excited that we are on the cusp and am learning so much from this great group of fellow watchmen and women.
As for view that the "apostasy" or great falling away can mean rapture - it boils down to one-verse theology, building a doctrine on one possible translation, while ignoring literally more than a dozen verses where multiple writers and Christ himself warns of the dangers and the consequences of those who "abandon the faith".
I've also read that notion a few times. I think it's semantic gymnastics - a lot like a garden path question "So Frank, have you stopped beating your wife yet." Built in to the question is false or misleading information.
People say, that in some instances the word can be translated as taken away, to be used in the same context as the rapture, but when you really think about it, it doesn't make sense at so many levels.
1. The apostasy/rapture must first happen, and then the rapture will happen. That doesn't even pass the laugh test. 2. Despite all the semantic parsing of words, these same people won't deny the huge surge in false gospels and un-Biblical heresies that are causing people to become deceived and turn away, depart from the faith. Prosperty gospel, and Replacement theology, Universalism - and the growing acceptance of LGBT lifestyle, just to name a few.
One of the clear marks of the end times is that scripture explicitly says that in the last days, people will turn away from the faith.
No matter how some people parse it and spin it, "giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons," 1 Timothy 4:1 and "denying the faith, and turning aside after Satan," doesn't mean the rapture.
"You are not children of the night, but are children of the day, so that day will not surprise you like a thief in the night."
Watching and eagerly waiting for the Day of Christ.
Disciple4life
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 29, 2020 19:35:11 GMT -6
Joe, are you suggesting that Jesus accepts only certain people for certain sins? This particular statement is rather odd to me as a Christ-follower. The statement you made is suggesting that only certain people are accepted, and based on the type of sin. Then I go on to think that certain sins are ok and others are not. And moving on, that if someone is following another religion that they are not worthy of being in the presence of the Good News... Since this is a typed forum and not verbal dialog, GRACE is given here for sure. Please explain further your comment so that I do not understand in error...
|
|
|
|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 29, 2020 19:48:05 GMT -6
boymaker , and maybe I need to ask this of the rest of the entire audience of this forum: what does it mean, this "reformed" thing? I am in the understanding that Christ is God incarnate. That He came to this world to save it. That He was born, walked among us and rejected by many, too, then died and rose, all of this according to the Scriptues (His written word (and mandated requests given to His chosen), expressed over time thru them and other means, and to add, even showed us several thousand years thru man what His intent was and why atonement is so dear to Him. SO what is it to be reformed? Is there another gospel? is there something I am missing? For the sake of sakes I went to the raw definition of the word "reformed": it says, 'having been changed in such a way as to be improved.' Sounds like MAN made this definition, not God. I was under the impression there is nothing that we can do to "improve" things, other than to follow Him. To equate oneself to being reformed does not also equal how God sees each one of us. So what gives? I am a cautious physical church goer because of exactly this type of thinking being taught. So, yes I have fallen away from man-made church standards, and have resorted to Jesus First. If this is apostacy, then Lord HELP ME!
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 29, 2020 20:03:21 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl , not meaning to speak for Joe or boymaker, but here is how I understood their posts... with Joe - I took it to mean those churches that, for example, have people serving in ministry who are living the gay life style or those who embrace another religion but the "church" overlooks that --basically ignoring their need for Jesus alone. with boymaker - reformed is another name for Calvinism (at least that is how I have seen it used most often)
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 29, 2020 20:32:42 GMT -6
very short history lesson for the curious - the term reformed comes from the time of the Reformation from those who wanted to Reform (or change) the way the Catholic Church was doing things. (Calvin, Luther, etc) To take things back to faith alone through Christ alone. The term Protestant also came about at this time. There were those who were protesting the limitations on religious freedom. They became known as Protestants. The whole time period is often called the Protestant Reformation.
I know, barb that you dislike labels, but in this case labels tell us if a person is Protestant or Catholic. If a person says they are a Christian, they are usually one or the other (at least in the US, I don't know how something like Eastern Orthodox fits in there). But not all Protestants are created equal. So, for example, I would consider myself Protestant because I am not Catholic, but I do not label myself reformed because I do not agree with the teachings of Calvin. Neither am I Arminian, which is often thought of as the only other choice (which is not true). For further discussion on this we can start a new thread, if desired.
|
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Jan 29, 2020 20:55:52 GMT -6
Very well said Natalie.
I read Joe's post in exactly the same way. Liberal churches which have watered down the gospel and teach acceptance of everything to the point they never talk of sin or repentance [read Joel Olsteen here] .
You also are absolutely correct in your explanation that reformed is simply another name for Calvinism. Baptist is in the middle of the spectrum between Strict Arminians and Hyper/ 5 point Calviniats. So yes, there are lots of independent and non-denominational groups which are a hybrid mix- Calminian.
While i agree with Barbio about not wanting people to pigeonhole me or make blanket assumptions, its important to understand what others mean and clarify terms so we can be on the save same page.
Blessings,
Disciple4Life
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 29, 2020 21:10:34 GMT -6
yes, it's always good to clarify things. There is a couple of other terms besides Calvinism and Arminianism which fall in the middle. Non-calvinist Baptists use the term Traditionalists. Leighton Flowers has coined the term "Provisionalist" because God's Provision is for all men. I've learned a lot from him. I like the term Calminian though.  I think it's always good to ask for clarification. Many times people will use the same terms but mean completely different things. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 22:16:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm a Calvinist. I was raised Catholic, came to faith in AOG, and became reformed 20 years ago.
|
|
