Revelation 4/5 the beginning of the New Covenant Era
Oct 2, 2019 14:46:38 GMT -6
daniel, boraddict, and 1 more like this
Post by rt on Oct 2, 2019 14:46:38 GMT -6
I would like to elaborate a bit on why I have come to understand the first 4 seals as having already been removed.
I touched on this idea in this thread: board.unsealed.org/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture, and have shared it in another forum I frequent.
Okay so let's talk about the scene in Revelation 4 again by way of reminder: John has been caught up to heaven into the heavenly tabernacle, to stand before the throne of God. Where he sees "one sitting on the throne" and the 24 elders sitting on thrones around God's throne.
He goes on to describe the throne, the crystal sea, the living creatures etc... but let me point to one description in particular. That of the seven spirits of God:
John describes the seven spirits of God as seven lamps of fire burning before the throne.
John continues to describe events that were shown to him:
There is a lot here in this passage. First we see God the father (Him who sits on the throne) holding in His hand the sealed scroll. John is distraught over the idea that no one anywhere (heaven,earth or under the earth) is able to open the scroll, and the reason is that no one has been found worthy to do so. But then one of the elders says that the Lion of Judah (an Old testament description of Christ) overcame, which makes Him worthy to now look into the book.
Then immediately we see the Lamb standing as if slain (A New Testament description of Christ) before the throne. Which we know to be Jesus.
What has happened here? What made the Lion of Judah, who we also know to be Jesus, worthy to open the scroll? He overcame. The question is what did He overcome?
But before we discover what He overcame let's talk about when He did so:
Jesus says that he overcame and sat down with His father on His throne, this is an event from John's past not the future. When did this happen?
When He made purification of sins, after He was crucified.
So what did Jesus overcome?
How did He overcome the world?
He died for our sins and subjected angels and authorities and powers to Him,(overcame the world) then was raised to heaven and is now at the right hand of God.
So when John describes the Lamb standing as if slain enter into the heavenly tabernacle, he is describing Christ after His crucifixion, resurrected into the throne room of God in the heavenly tabernacle. This is why He is described as standing as if slain. He has just been crucified and has subjected the angels, powers and authorities to Himself and now He is prepared to take the scroll and His place on the throne at the right hand of the Father. This event is not a future event, the Lamb will never again enter the throne room of heaven as if slain, as Peter says He dies once for the sins of all.
There are other indications in the passage that demonstrate what John witnesses is the initiation of the New Covenant era and not a future event.
We saw earlier how the seven spirits of God were described as seven lamps of fire. Under the Old Covenant In the earthly tabernacle, these seven spirits served as the pattern for the golden Lampstand that was in the wilderness tabernacle(Exodus 25:31-40). But after the lamb enters we now see that the description of these seven spirits is different:
So we see right here a change in the working of the Holy Spirit, no longer described as seven lamps of fire before the throne, but now they are seven horns and eyes on the head of the Lamb that was slain, sent out into all the earth.
Peter in his sermon at Pentecost explains how the words of the prophet Joel were being fulfilled that day, remember the Holy Spirit had just descended, appearing as what?....flames of fire (seven lamps of fire):
Then Peter explains to the crowd what was happening:
This different description of the seven spirits of God in the revelation demonstrates that the New Covenant era has just begun.
Not only this but John also goes on to describe the "New Song" :
We see that the "new song" reiterates why Jesus was able to take the book, because He was slain and purchased men with His blood. This is a confirmation that what John had just witnessed was Jesus entering heaven after His crucifixion and resurrection. This is the song of the New Covenant, men from every tribe, tongue and nation, no longer just the nation of Israel, but the gentiles as well; they have been made into a kingdom of priests who will one day (in the future) reign on earth.
John early in the Revelation opens with this:
He says that Jesus released us from our sins by His blood and He has (past tense) made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, an event from John's past, which was fulfilled when Jesus entered the heavenly tabernacle as the Lamb that was slain to make atonement for our sins. (See Hebrews 9+10)
Now if I am correct, and I think that I am, then this event that John witnesses is not a future event, but one from John's past (and ours) and is the initiation of the New Covenant era and the birth of the church, which by the way, would exclude the 24 elders from being the church because they are shown to be around the throne before the Lamb enters as if slain, before the New Covenant era begins.
What we see in Hebrews 9, is what John witnessed in Revelation 4 and 5.
So Jesus took the scroll from the Father upon His entrance into the heavenly Tabernacle, and took His seat on His throne. It is completely reasonable to assume that He then immediately began removing the first four seals. In fact this is exactly how John describes events unfolding. The two remaining seals, as I have explained in the thread I posted above, remain, and represent the resurrection of the dead in Christ, followed by the rapture, seals 5 and 6, meaning these events could happen at any time. The scroll itself represents the final 7 years of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.
I touched on this idea in this thread: board.unsealed.org/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture, and have shared it in another forum I frequent.
Okay so let's talk about the scene in Revelation 4 again by way of reminder: John has been caught up to heaven into the heavenly tabernacle, to stand before the throne of God. Where he sees "one sitting on the throne" and the 24 elders sitting on thrones around God's throne.
He goes on to describe the throne, the crystal sea, the living creatures etc... but let me point to one description in particular. That of the seven spirits of God:
Revelation 4:5
5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;
5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;
John describes the seven spirits of God as seven lamps of fire burning before the throne.
John continues to describe events that were shown to him:
Revelation 5:1-10
1 I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?”
3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.
4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it;
5 and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
1 I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?”
3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.
4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it;
5 and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
There is a lot here in this passage. First we see God the father (Him who sits on the throne) holding in His hand the sealed scroll. John is distraught over the idea that no one anywhere (heaven,earth or under the earth) is able to open the scroll, and the reason is that no one has been found worthy to do so. But then one of the elders says that the Lion of Judah (an Old testament description of Christ) overcame, which makes Him worthy to now look into the book.
Then immediately we see the Lamb standing as if slain (A New Testament description of Christ) before the throne. Which we know to be Jesus.
What has happened here? What made the Lion of Judah, who we also know to be Jesus, worthy to open the scroll? He overcame. The question is what did He overcome?
But before we discover what He overcame let's talk about when He did so:
Revelation 3:21
21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Jesus says that he overcame and sat down with His father on His throne, this is an event from John's past not the future. When did this happen?
Hebrews 1:3
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
When He made purification of sins, after He was crucified.
Hebrews 12:2
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
So what did Jesus overcome?
John 16:33
33 “These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
33 “These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
How did He overcome the world?
1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
He died for our sins and subjected angels and authorities and powers to Him,(overcame the world) then was raised to heaven and is now at the right hand of God.
So when John describes the Lamb standing as if slain enter into the heavenly tabernacle, he is describing Christ after His crucifixion, resurrected into the throne room of God in the heavenly tabernacle. This is why He is described as standing as if slain. He has just been crucified and has subjected the angels, powers and authorities to Himself and now He is prepared to take the scroll and His place on the throne at the right hand of the Father. This event is not a future event, the Lamb will never again enter the throne room of heaven as if slain, as Peter says He dies once for the sins of all.
There are other indications in the passage that demonstrate what John witnesses is the initiation of the New Covenant era and not a future event.
We saw earlier how the seven spirits of God were described as seven lamps of fire. Under the Old Covenant In the earthly tabernacle, these seven spirits served as the pattern for the golden Lampstand that was in the wilderness tabernacle(Exodus 25:31-40). But after the lamb enters we now see that the description of these seven spirits is different:
Revelation 5:6
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
So we see right here a change in the working of the Holy Spirit, no longer described as seven lamps of fire before the throne, but now they are seven horns and eyes on the head of the Lamb that was slain, sent out into all the earth.
Peter in his sermon at Pentecost explains how the words of the prophet Joel were being fulfilled that day, remember the Holy Spirit had just descended, appearing as what?....flames of fire (seven lamps of fire):
Acts 2:3-4
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Then Peter explains to the crowd what was happening:
Acts 2:16-18
16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
18 Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
18 Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
This different description of the seven spirits of God in the revelation demonstrates that the New Covenant era has just begun.
Not only this but John also goes on to describe the "New Song" :
Revelation 5:7-10
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
We see that the "new song" reiterates why Jesus was able to take the book, because He was slain and purchased men with His blood. This is a confirmation that what John had just witnessed was Jesus entering heaven after His crucifixion and resurrection. This is the song of the New Covenant, men from every tribe, tongue and nation, no longer just the nation of Israel, but the gentiles as well; they have been made into a kingdom of priests who will one day (in the future) reign on earth.
John early in the Revelation opens with this:
Revelation 1:4-6
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
He says that Jesus released us from our sins by His blood and He has (past tense) made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, an event from John's past, which was fulfilled when Jesus entered the heavenly tabernacle as the Lamb that was slain to make atonement for our sins. (See Hebrews 9+10)
Now if I am correct, and I think that I am, then this event that John witnesses is not a future event, but one from John's past (and ours) and is the initiation of the New Covenant era and the birth of the church, which by the way, would exclude the 24 elders from being the church because they are shown to be around the throne before the Lamb enters as if slain, before the New Covenant era begins.
Hebrews 9:11-15
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
What we see in Hebrews 9, is what John witnessed in Revelation 4 and 5.
So Jesus took the scroll from the Father upon His entrance into the heavenly Tabernacle, and took His seat on His throne. It is completely reasonable to assume that He then immediately began removing the first four seals. In fact this is exactly how John describes events unfolding. The two remaining seals, as I have explained in the thread I posted above, remain, and represent the resurrection of the dead in Christ, followed by the rapture, seals 5 and 6, meaning these events could happen at any time. The scroll itself represents the final 7 years of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy.
