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Post by mike on Apr 16, 2019 13:24:56 GMT -6
The original calendar that the Almighty gave to us, and since He does not change, it is the same, is the 364 day mathematical calendar. 52 weeks = 364 days. The days are always the same, the feasts are always on the same day. A little off topic but why do you see the calendar this way? We have 365.25 days (roughly) to fully orbit the sun. The Hebrew calendar is 360 plus a 13th month every 7 of 19 years, getting it back to the same 365.25. Why 364? |
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jp
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Post by jp on Apr 16, 2019 18:25:28 GMT -6
So the administrator gets to insult "Christians," who believe a certain way, but we must allow our Almighty given, Constitutionally protected rights to be put on hold for our comments. I am a Christian, and I know that the 70 weeks has nothing to do with the Messiah. Gabriel is answering Daniel concerning the COMPLETION of the desolations. The desolations are not completed until the end of the wrath when the Messiah comes down for the war of the great day. You are trying to force the Hebrew word for anointed to mean the Messiah. It is not talking about the Messiah, it is talking about the anointed aka YOUR PEOPLE. It is not talking about Jews, it is speaking to the ANOINTED aka Spiritual Israel. 70 weeks are decreed for YOUR PEOPLE/the anointed/Spiritual Israel. After the 70 weeks, YOUR PEOPLE are cut off/reaped/harvested/raptured/redeemed/rescued….etc., but not for the city and sanctuary, because they must be trampled and DESOLATED. If you want to know what the Messiah is saying, you can not take the English at face value. The 70 weeks are the final 490 years for believers. It is mirroring the Jubilee, and the journey from Egypt to Mt Sinai. It is the believers journey to New Jerusalem. The 71st week is the week of wrath. 3.5 years for the wrath of the Lamb aka Trumpets, then the MARK is set up, and then 3.5 years for the wrath of the Almighty aka Bowls. The anointed cut off (70), THEN the final week aka the 71st week. Gabriel specifies that it is an endtime prophecy in Daniel 9:24 "seal up the vision." It is the same wording he used in Daniel 12:4, and 9. Daniel 12 was given before Daniel 9, so the precedent was set concerning what seal up means, it means it is for the time of the end, not for the time when the Messiah walked the earth.
jp -- Consider this your first warning .... YOU DO NOT HAVE "Constitutionally protected rights" for using this website -- if you using it you should have read the RULES (linked below)
read the rules first -- before claim you or someone else has rights......
Second, your claim the administrator insulted Jamie -- in what way? He simply pointed out his comment "I believe the 70th week stuff has been instrumental in misleading people." is borderline breaking rule 3
He never insulted, nor putdown, nor referenced anything about Jamie's character -- so in what way was an insult given?
Yes, he was shown points where he and the administrator disagree with each other; and at no point did the administrator claim Jamie was wrong -- simply because he had better knowledge.
Unlike Jamie who proclaimed far and wide -- that he (Jamie) has a better understanding of what the 70th week prophecy means -- and if you do not believe the same way your being mislead.
Finally, it appears your interpretation continues to insist that the 70th week prophecy is for Believers.... BUT
The actual TEXT SAYS "... Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,..." It is for the people of Israel and Jerusalem...
No where in the text does it indicate this prophecy is "for believers."
Finally, based on your summation -- it appears you have reserved the right to re-interrupted the prophecy to include 71 (or more) weeks (years?)
If that is indeed your summation -- please show scripture references -- which indicated the 70TH week Prophecy -- Now includes 71 (and possibly more?) weeks.........
My rights are given to me from the Almighty, and they are protected by the Constitution. From my experience, people who fear public scrutiny and need to censor it, their ideas can not stand up to public scrutiny, so they have to censor it, or DECEIVE. 1. If you think that just because a text says something in the English, then that is what "the text actually says," you are very immature in your walk, and me trying to shine light on a misinterpretation is like an adult trying to discuss politics with a child. 2. If you can not add 2+2 and see that the 70 ends with the cutting off (reaping) of his people, THE ANOINTED, and then comes the antichrist AFTER the 70 weeks, and it is another week, then what is there for me to say. Scripture confirms over and over and over again this understanding of the sequence, but some people just do not care about facts or evidence. Take for instance the Messiah, He taught Truth and accompanied it with signs and wonders, yet many did not listen or believe. You are no different then the Pharisees. You make up idiotic rules to burden our free speech, and then you do not recognize the Messiah and His Truth when it is staring you in the face. |
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jp
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Post by jp on Apr 16, 2019 18:34:09 GMT -6
The original calendar that the Almighty gave to us, and since He does not change, it is the same, is the 364 day mathematical calendar. 52 weeks = 364 days. The days are always the same, the feasts are always on the same day. A little off topic but why do you see the calendar this way? We have 365.25 days (roughly) to fully orbit the sun. The Hebrew calendar is 360 plus a 13th month every 7 of 19 years, getting it back to the same 365.25. Why 364? The one lady mentioned the calendar, that is why I said it. The Almighty gave Enoch the way of telling time from the tablets in New Jerusalem (heavenly tablets). The feast days were written in these tablets long before they were instituted here on earth. The days of the week mirror the Menorah, with the 4 candlestick being the 1st day of the year. The mathematical calendar (that does not require any human intervention) is a 360 degree calendar with 4 season markers. The markers are the solstice and the equinox. Every month has 30 days, but the last month of winter has 31 to mark the beginning of spring, the last month of spring has 31 to mark the beginning of summer, etc. Our minds have been polluted with the pagan calendar, but the easiest way to see it and understand it is that there are 364 days in 52 weeks. 7x52=364. The year will always end on a Tue (Day 3) and begin on a Wed (Day 4) during the week of the Spring equinox. Passover will always be on the 14th day of the 1st month, Trumpets will always be on the 1st day of the 7th month etc. Zero human intervention. It is a beautiful thing. It was good speaking with you, but I will probably be banned from the website after today. I do not take kindly to having my free speech censored. Take care. |
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Post by mike on Apr 16, 2019 18:42:38 GMT -6
Thanks jp, yeah I'd say your time is done. The forum is for discussion. You may have revelation that someone has yet to see. Possibly God still hasn't opened eyes to a different way to view a scripture. Point being if I thought my view of scripture was accurate and the only way to view a topic, I would be in the bondage I was once before. I'm thankful for this site and the great brothers and sisters here that help me learn and grow. Farewell |
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jp
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Post by jp on Apr 16, 2019 19:01:32 GMT -6
The 70 weeks has nothing to do with the Messiah. Gabriel is answering the question of when the completion of the desolation is. The desolations are not completed until the Messiah comes down and His angels toss the fallen angels into the burning fire. The English translation say Messiah, but it is speaking about the anointed, the THE Messiah. The anointed are cut off/reaped/harvested/raptured at the end of the 70th week, which is 2026.
? ? ? ? WHAT ? ? ? ?
Let us repeat what Gabriel said to Daniel ....
Dan. 9:24 "Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city...."
So Gabriel tells Daniel that 70 - 7's (or seventy -- 7 year time periods) have been decreed for the people of Israel and the Holy City (Jerusalem)
The following things will be accomplished "sometime during this time") 1) to finish disobedience
2) to make an end of sins
3) to make reconciliation for iniquity
4) to bring in everlasting righteousness 5) to seal up vision and prophecy 6) to anoint the most holy
To repeat during this period (490 Years) -- those six items have to be accomplished ....
Here is the ISSUE -- THE ANOINTED ONE (I believe that is Jesus the Christ -- or Jesus the Messiah) --- has His ministry interrupted by being "CUT OFF"
(again this is God's all over plan -- which we are only getting snip-its of it) Point's 1, 2, and 3 were completed the first time the Messiah (the Anointed one was here)
Points 4, 5, and 6 it appears will be fulfilled during or at the end of the 70th week.
Your claim is "The 70 weeks has nothing to do with the Messiah"....
Ok, technically, that is correct to a point -- the prophecy is specifically about the people of Israel AND the City Jerusalem. BUT the Messiah (the Anointed one) is the Implementer -- of the above 6 points -- without Him the six points would NOT be accomplished -- So in that sense -- It is ALL ABOUT THE Messiah's ACTIONS --- what He has and will accomplish.
I should have been clearer. The 70 weeks has nothing to do with the Messiah WHEN He came the 1st time. You and a majority of Christianity are trying to force the Hebrew word for anointed to mean the Messiah Himself. The English translations from the Hebrew are misleading. To get a proper understanding of what the Messiah is saying to us, we must dig into the ancient languages and compare other Scriptures. The 70 weeks understanding of it being the final 70 weeks for believers fits perfectly with ALL other Scripture that lays out the sequence of events for the final 14 years. The final appointed time of the end is 14 years, not 7. A 7 year trial, which is the Seals and 7 years of wrath (3.5 trumpets+3.5 bowls) and in the midst of the week of wrath, the MARK is set up. All of 9:24 will be completed when the Messiah comes down and His angels throw the fallen angels into the burning fire. The transgression, the sin, the iniquity was all brought about by the fallen angels, and they are released at the beginning of the wrath in Trumpets 5 (apollyon = antichrist) and 6 (the leader of the other fallen angels = false prophet who taught sorcery to humanity in Eden). When they are thrown into the burning fire, that is when the prophecy is FINISHED. Rev 16:17 followed by the Messiah coming down to tread the winepress of the war of the great day. Scripture is sometimes hard to follow, but it usually differentiates when it is speaking about the bloodline of Israel vs Spiritual Israel (True believers). When it is speaking about the bloodline it will add the phrase sons of Israel or the sons of Jacob or the house of Judah etc. When it just says Israel, it is an indicator that it is speaking to US. Daniel 9 is an endtime timeline, and Gabriel tells us this by using the terminology "seal up the vision." He also says this in Daniel 12, which was given to Daniel prior to Daniel 9, so the precedent of what "sealed up" means was established in Daniel 12 (556BC), so Daniel 9 (522BC) the seal up the vision means it is for the endtime, beginning with when the walls are restored, and the calling again of the people = Suileman 1536+70 weeks (490) = spring 2019. The 70th week began on 3/20/2019 and will end in 2026 with the ANOINTED cut off/reaped/harvested/raptured/caught up etc. The ANOINTED RULER will be walking STRONGLY in the anointing soon, but MOST of you will miss it, just like many missed the Messiah when He walked in the flesh among us. In a matter of fact, many will call the ANOINTED RULER the antichrist, just like they said the Messiah cast out demons with the power of belzebub. There are 4 raptures. The 1st rapture of the wise virgins/Church of Philadelphia and it is in the VERY near future, and it is the event that begins the TRIAL, which is the 7 years of Seals, but the day of redemption, when the ANOINTED is cut off/reaped/gathered into the clouds is the 2nd rapture, not the 1st. |
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Post by boraddict on Apr 16, 2019 20:08:44 GMT -6
Hi jp. I am at a loss for words after reading some of your postings. I guess we might start with the calendar business. A Hebrew calendar month is from the crescent of the new moon until the night before the crescent of the next new moon and this is a constant 30 days and has been for the past thousands of years. There are 12 months to the Hebrew calendar year and 12 X 30 = 360 days in a Hebrew calendar year. Occasionally a 13th month was added to a calendar year making that year 390 days. So, a Hebrew calendar year is 360 days and occasionally 390 days.
With regard to the 70th week, there are a number of theories and I like them all. Perhaps you might show your theory and the supporting evidence.
With regard to the insult that you imparted to Gary I would ask that you not do that. Perhaps you did not mean to come off that way; however, it made me wonder about the type of spirit that you subscribe to: a spirit of peace or a spirit of anger.
I hope that you have a spirit of peace and it is just a matter of getting started on the wrong foot.
Peace be with you jp.
Post Script: Thanks Mike.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 16, 2019 20:30:48 GMT -6
Here are the Scriptures from Daniel: (emphasis added and comments in blue) "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, (Who's people and city? Daniel's, the recipient of the message) to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks (plus the previously mentioned seven weeks to make a total of sixty-nine) an anointed one (a singular anointed one, not many anointed ones) shall be cut off and shall have nothing. (I like NKJV better that says shall be cut off but not for Himself) And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, (the 70th week, not 71st) and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering..."
Plain chronological reading:
a word to restore Jerusalem then 7 weeks (49 years) then a prince comes (who is this?)
then 62 weeks (434) then an anointed one is cut off, but He died for someone else
the city and sanctuary are destroyed
lots of war then a covenant of 1 week (7 years) half way through sacrifice and offering ends
ETA: Seeing Mike's post further down, this version puts punctuation in different places. So, it has an anointed one, a prince, coming after 7 weeks. The NKJV reads, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks..."
Looking at translation comparisons on Blue Letter Bible, the ESV and RSV are the only ones to translate it that way. All other translations have it something similar to the NKJV. The ESV frustrates me at times.  But all of them have Him being cut off after that set of 62 weeks.
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Post by yardstick on Apr 16, 2019 21:25:46 GMT -6
jp -- Consider this your first warning .... YOU DO NOT HAVE "Constitutionally protected rights" for using this website -- if you using it you should have read the RULES (linked below)
read the rules first -- before claim you or someone else has rights......
Second, your claim the administrator insulted Jamie -- in what way? He simply pointed out his comment "I believe the 70th week stuff has been instrumental in misleading people." is borderline breaking rule 3
He never insulted, nor putdown, nor referenced anything about Jamie's character -- so in what way was an insult given?
Yes, he was shown points where he and the administrator disagree with each other; and at no point did the administrator claim Jamie was wrong -- simply because he had better knowledge.
Unlike Jamie who proclaimed far and wide -- that he (Jamie) has a better understanding of what the 70th week prophecy means -- and if you do not believe the same way your being mislead.
Finally, it appears your interpretation continues to insist that the 70th week prophecy is for Believers.... BUT
The actual TEXT SAYS "... Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,..." It is for the people of Israel and Jerusalem...
No where in the text does it indicate this prophecy is "for believers."
Finally, based on your summation -- it appears you have reserved the right to re-interrupted the prophecy to include 71 (or more) weeks (years?)
If that is indeed your summation -- please show scripture references -- which indicated the 70TH week Prophecy -- Now includes 71 (and possibly more?) weeks.........
My rights are given to me from the Almighty, and they are protected by the Constitution. From my experience, people who fear public scrutiny and need to censor it, their ideas can not stand up to public scrutiny, so they have to censor it, or DECEIVE. 1. If you think that just because a text says something in the English, then that is what "the text actually says," you are very immature in your walk, and me trying to shine light on a misinterpretation is like an adult trying to discuss politics with a child. 2. If you can not add 2+2 and see that the 70 ends with the cutting off (reaping) of his people, THE ANOINTED, and then comes the antichrist AFTER the 70 weeks, and it is another week, then what is there for me to say. Scripture confirms over and over and over again this understanding of the sequence, but some people just do not care about facts or evidence. Take for instance the Messiah, He taught Truth and accompanied it with signs and wonders, yet many did not listen or believe. You are no different then the Pharisees. You make up idiotic rules to burden our free speech, and then you do not recognize the Messiah and His Truth when it is staring you in the face. JP, You are aware that you entered into a contract with the owner of this site under the 'Terms of Service' when you created an account, right? And since you cite the Constitution, you are also aware that a contract supercedes any provision therein, correct? Lastly, in general, the constitution simply enumerates your God-given rights, rather than granting them to you (as I am sure you are aware). It itself is a contract document between the several states whose purpose is to ensure that any government entity is required to preserve said rights, rather than ignore them or violate them. You should be advised that this site is not a government entity (to the best of my knowledge, but check with Gary the site owner to be sure). Therefore, any contract you have made with the site owner by way of creating an account means that you have willingly and knowingly chosen to give up any 'constitutionally secured' right which might conflict with your contract. Should the site owner divulge that this site is run by a government entity, you are well within your rights to file suit in the appropriate federal court, although I am not sure you would win (you still have a contract). But don't take my advice on that. I am not a real lawyer. I only play one on TV. Caveat Emptor |
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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2019 6:23:32 GMT -6
jamie - in your study (or opinion) is there a version that correctly translates Daniel 9:24-27? There are several versions available on Bible hub, heres the Youngs literal 24 ‘Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies. 25 And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times. 26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations. 27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many — one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.’
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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2019 6:28:39 GMT -6
What exactly transpired after the first 7 weeks? Anyone?
25 And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times. 26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah
Is it what I bolded? Was the city rebuilt in whatever year that equates to?
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Post by Natalie on Apr 17, 2019 7:12:50 GMT -6
Seeing your post, Mike, the translation I have puts some punctuation in a different place. So,the ESV has "an anointed one, a prince" coming after seven weeks. Then after sixty two weeks other things happen. But an anointed one is still cut off after a total of 69 weeks. I think I will go do some translation comparisons. |
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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2019 7:28:13 GMT -6
Seeing your post, Mike, the translation I have puts some punctuation in a different place. So,the ESV has "an anointed one, a prince" coming after seven weeks. Then after sixty two weeks other things happen. But an anointed one is still cut off after a total of 69 weeks. I think I will go do some translation comparisons. Yeah the YLT is closest to the original that I have seen, but that doesnt mean Ive seen them all. Nor have I compared them all. Also (my opinion) but we will not know the proper dissection of this until He chooses to reveal it. No one prior to us (our time) has figured it out, certainly smarter and more learned folks than me have tried and havent been able. Again in Gods timing it will become clear. I believe we are in that time or it is right around the corner.
I realize that there are at least 2 way to view this passage. Since neither of the current views can be definitively identified, none should be dogmatic about them. I see that this is where we are brothers/sisters can end up being a bit too strong in our opinions of the text and end up not speaking in love with one another. Everyone in this thread please remember this first and foremost. 1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 16 Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 17, 2019 7:37:39 GMT -6
I agree. There are definitely some things to agree on that are clear in the text, but there is a lot left up to study and interpretations. I'm up to reconsidering things, but it is clear that it is 70 weeks (not 71), and "an anointed one" is cut off after 69 weeks pass (not the rapture of the church). In my opinion, there is an order to what takes place and some interpretations have to rearrange that order. However, if a different order can be shown in a translation, then I'll consider it. But as I see it there is 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week that is split in half. That week occurs sometime after the temple and city are destroyed (sometime after 70 AD). (I like the Blue Letter Bible app for comparisons. It lines them all up and you can just scroll down through them. Very handy) |
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Post by kjs on Apr 17, 2019 8:38:08 GMT -6
jp -- Consider this your first warning .... YOU DO NOT HAVE "Constitutionally protected rights" for using this website -- if you using it you should have read the RULES (linked below)
read the rules first -- before claim you or someone else has rights......
Second, your claim the administrator insulted Jamie -- in what way? He simply pointed out his comment "I believe the 70th week stuff has been instrumental in misleading people." is borderline breaking rule 3
He never insulted, nor putdown, nor referenced anything about Jamie's character -- so in what way was an insult given?
Yes, he was shown points where he and the administrator disagree with each other; and at no point did the administrator claim Jamie was wrong -- simply because he had better knowledge.
Unlike Jamie who proclaimed far and wide -- that he (Jamie) has a better understanding of what the 70th week prophecy means -- and if you do not believe the same way your being mislead.
Finally, it appears your interpretation continues to insist that the 70th week prophecy is for Believers.... BUT
The actual TEXT SAYS "... Seventy weeks are decreed on your people and on your holy city,..." It is for the people of Israel and Jerusalem...
No where in the text does it indicate this prophecy is "for believers."
Finally, based on your summation -- it appears you have reserved the right to re-interrupted the prophecy to include 71 (or more) weeks (years?)
If that is indeed your summation -- please show scripture references -- which indicated the 70TH week Prophecy -- Now includes 71 (and possibly more?) weeks.........
My rights are given to me from the Almighty, and they are protected by the Constitution. From my experience, people who fear public scrutiny and need to censor it, their ideas can not stand up to public scrutiny, so they have to censor it, or DECEIVE. 1. If you think that just because a text says something in the English, then that is what "the text actually says," you are very immature in your walk, and me trying to shine light on a misinterpretation is like an adult trying to discuss politics with a child. 2. If you can not add 2+2 and see that the 70 ends with the cutting off (reaping) of his people, THE ANOINTED, and then comes the antichrist AFTER the 70 weeks, and it is another week, then what is there for me to say. Scripture confirms over and over and over again this understanding of the sequence, but some people just do not care about facts or evidence. Take for instance the Messiah, He taught Truth and accompanied it with signs and wonders, yet many did not listen or believe. You are no different then the Pharisees. You make up idiotic rules to burden our free speech, and then you do not recognize the Messiah and His Truth when it is staring you in the face. jp -- this is your second warning.
You can disagree with me or anyone else on this thread all you wish .... However, when you start stating that "I Have a very immature walk" and "that I am a child in my thinking process" -- You have crossed the line from disagreement and moved into character attacks.
Character attacks are not tolerated here.
You are incorrect that you have rights on any website -- that you do not own. You must follow the rules OR you are banned. There are Many, Many websites with this same policy -- follow the rules.
I also asked you to PROVE with Scripture that the 70th Week prophecy had change to 71 (or more weeks) ... instead you attack my character -- rather than my logic.
It appears that if you cannot logically defend your position with scripture -- you simply resort to character attacks (this past post gave three character attacks)....
Please, this website is for learning ... give your opinion, back it up with scripture, be willing to learn different approaches .....
NO ONE here on earth right now holds all the answers -- be willing to concede your current understanding may have a flaw.
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Post by Natalie on Apr 17, 2019 8:43:46 GMT -6
So, I have been doing some more reading and thinking. I think I understand why some see Jesus as being cut off in the midst of the 70th week. So, the section that talks about the prince that is to come and destroy the city, that would indeed be a future event, but not necessarily the next event. First the covenant is made and sacrifices stopped in the middle of the week. I guess my question is, What was the covenant? Not the New Covenant because it has no end. Not a reinforcing of God's covenant with Israel because it didn't end with them accepting Jesus. Also, I imagine sacrifices didn't stop until the temple was destroyed. I agree that He put the need for sacrifices to stop, but they didn't actually stop. And as we have seen this week, the Jews will still offer sacrifices. So, it is possible that the stopping of sacrifices is still future. Along with the whole 70th week. But I think I now understand why some see only 3.5 years left of Jewish history according to Daniel. It just brings up a lot of questions for me. |
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But all of them have Him being cut off after that set of 62 weeks. 