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Post by boraddict on Aug 20, 2020 20:30:41 GMT -6
The Book of Daniel begins with Judah going into captivity (Dan. 1:1) and ends with them being freed (Dan. 12:1).
During Judah's captivity they are passed from one conquering kingdom to another and these are given in Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Dan. 2:32-43) to wit:
1) Babylon the head of gold
2) Persia the breast and arms of silver
3) Greece the belly and thighs of brass
4) Rome the legs of iron
5) Rome and other states the iron and the clay mixed
Lastly, God's kingdom comes forth as a crushing stone (Dan. 2:44-45)
The above five kingdoms can be found in The Book of Revelation at Rev. 17:10 wherein they are fallen kingdoms. Thus, the 5th kingdom fell as states presiding over Judah in 1948 when Judah returned to their homeland. However, at that time Judah became subject to a 6th kingdom (the "one" that "is," v. 17:10) and this 6th kingdom is the United Nations (UN).
Next in line to preside over Judah is the 7th kingdom that somehow takes over from the UN. This 7th kingdom is referenced in Rev. 12:3-4 and "he will continue a short space" of time (Rev. 17:10) that is according to my research 3.5 years; until he is put down at the mid-point of the 7 years in the war of Rev. 12:7-10.
Then in Rev. 13:1-3 John writes in a reference back to Rev. 12:3-10 that this beast rises from the sea of mankind and was thought to have been killed but lives. Later in the chapter we are told that this beast is merely an image of his former self and that this lie (that the beast still lives) is perpetrated by a 2nd beast (Rev. 13:11-18). This 2nd beast of Ch. 13 is the beast of Rev. 17:3 that is the 8th kingdom to preside over Judah; as referenced in Rev. 17:11.
A special designation is given to the 8th beast that is similar to the one given by the Savior of himself to wit:
1) The Savior: "who is, and who was, and who is to come" (Rev. 1:8).
2) the false savior that is the 8th beast: "was, and is not, and yet is to come" (Rev. 17:8, 11).
That is, he "was" alive as the 7th beast, he "is not" alive as the 7th beast, "and yet is to come" alive as a created image to become the 8th beast.
All the above is my personal opinion based upon my work in the BofR.
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Post by boraddict on Aug 24, 2020 18:36:27 GMT -6
The Book of Revelation is a message from God the Father (Rev. 5:1) through his Son Jesus Christ (Rev. 5:6-7) to his servants here in the last days (Rev. 1:1); evidenced via the statement "the time is near" (Rev. 1:3). That is, we all know that "the time is near"; therefore, the Book of Revelation is applicable to our time and the message of this book is from God the Father, to us; his servants.
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Post by boraddict on Aug 26, 2020 18:38:06 GMT -6
I am hoping to extract more information from the BofR so please bear with me. In this exercise I am showing the 1st and 2nd beasts as participants in the chapter verses in which they appear in the first half of the book in comparison to the 1st and 2nd beasts as participants in the chapter verses as they appear in the second half of the book to wit: | 1st beast | 2nd beast | | 1st beast | 2nd beast |
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| Rev. 12:1-11 | Rev. 12:12-17 |
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| Rev. 13:1-4, 18 | Rev. 13:5-17 | | Rev. 6:1-6 | Rev. 6:7-17 |
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So I just discovered that Rev. 6:5-6 is the war of Rev. 12:7-11 via an association between the locations of the beasts in these chapters. Formerly I had believed that Verses 6:5-6 were rapture verses. Yet, this exercise is showing that Verses 6:5-6 are in fact war verses. This means that the rapture must have occurred in Chapter 4 as I have previously discovered and has been pointed out to be by rondonmonson and others. Please keep in mind that the relationship between Chapters 4 and 12 pertains to the rapture that spans over both the 1st (Rev. 12:6) and 2nd (Rev. 12:14) beasts that includes the war at Rev. 12:7-11. This means that the war at Rev. 6:5-6 spans from the 1st beast (Rev. 6:4) to the 2nd beast (Rev. 6:8) as is shown in it's relationship to these two verses. Secondly, please keep in mind that the relationship between Chapters 5 and 13 is such that it shows the Father / Son in Chapter 5 and the false father / false son in Chapter 13. In both Chapters 5 and 13 the only active participants are the son's but not the fathers. One Son as the true Savior (Ch. 5), and the other son as a false savior (Ch. 13). Lastly, the above information supports that Rev. 6:2 is the rapture verse in Chapter 6 and it is here that Chapter 7 begins it's application to the seals. All the above is my personal opinion. From the above analysis it becomes clear that the war between the saints and the 1st beast is given in several places throughout the book. The first instance of this war is at Rev. 6:5-6, and the second instance of this war should be in Chapter 7. What I mean is that the six seals a represented in Chapter 6 should also exist to some extent in Chapter 7. Thus, the question becomes "what is the demarcation lines of the 6 seals in Chapter 7 as they relate to the 6 seals of Chapter 6?" The following is Rev. 7 with the seals markers in place: 1st seal, "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2nd seal, Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh, 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar, 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed. After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.” 3rd seal, "Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white min the blood of the Lamb. "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them or any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” From the above conclusions it is reasonable that the marriage as stated in Chapter 19 and represented here in Chapter 7 occurs at the second seal of Chapter 6. Secondly, that the 3rd seal is the point at which the war upon the 1st beast occurs. This is a fun exercise that now shows the war with the 1st beast as represented in Chapter 7 is at Rev. 7:13, after the marriage. So now we have the seven seals that have an application to the 1st beast and we get to see the war at the end of the 7th seal as the first four trumpets. Not only that but we have the same 7 seals representing the entire 7 year tribulation and the final destruction at the four trumpets. So basically we have two stories at a minimum that are told in the same seven seals. The first is the destruction of the 1st beast and the second is the destruction of the 2nd beast. The first ending at the 3.5 year mark and the second ending at the 7 year mark. It simply depends upon what part of the story the reader is focusing upon. The four trumpets in Chapter 8 are the war ending the 1st beast and these same four trumpets are the war ending the 2nd beast albeit 3.5 years later. All the above is my personal opinion. |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 27, 2020 9:46:37 GMT -6
In my previous posting I found that the rapture at Rev. 12:6 is located within Rev. 6:4 and the secondary (rapture) at Rev. 12:14 is located within Rev. 6:8. There is however another possibility which is that the two raptures in Chapter 12 are one verse delayed in Chapter 6 such that Verse 12:6 is located within Rev. 6:5 and Verse 12:14 is located within Rev. 6:9. I prefer the 1st option because Verse 6:9 shows the saints under the altar that coincides with the events following Verse 12:14 and on into Rev. 13:7. That is, Verse 6:9 harmonizes with Verse 13:7 supporting that the former verse 6:8 harmonizes with the latter verses of Chapter 12, and this supports that the secondary rapture verse at 12:14 exists in Chapter 6 at Verse 8. Basically the above information means that the rapture effects the 1st beast prior to the war and the very same rapture effects the 2nd beast after the war. It isn't that there are literally two raptures in Chapter 12; however, the rapture in that chapter is emphasized twice. Please look again at the placement of the war in Chapter 12 and then the placement of the war in Chapter 6 to wit: | The rapture in relation to the 1st beast | The Great War in Chapter 12 | The rapture in relation to the 2nd beast | | Rev. 12:6 | Rev. 12:7-11 | Rev. 12:14 |
| The Great War in Chapter 6 |
| | Rev. 6:4 | Rev. 6:5-6 | Rev. 6:8 |
The possibility does exist that Verses 12:6, 7-11, 14 contain actions (rapture, war, rapture) that transpire within Verses 6:5-6; yet, I prefer to follow the pattern as established in Chapter 12 (above, 12:6, 7-11, 14) for Chapter 6 (above, 6:4, 5-6, 8). I guess it really does't matter how the rapture is applied to Chapter 6 but the main thing seems to be the war at Verses 6:5-6. Please notice that the rider of the black horse is told not to hurt the oil and wine that are symbols of the sacrament. It is easy to see that the rider is being told not to hurt the saints. So, if he is not to hurt the saints then who is he to hurt but the beast that is the rider of the red horse at Rev. 6:4. This is the war of Rev. 12:7-11 as I have previously stated that is also given in Rev. 19:11-21 and other places throughout the book. Continuing with the 1st and 2nd beast locations within the chapters: | 1st beast | 2nd beast | 1st beast | 2nd beast | | Rev. 6:1-6 | Rev. 6:7-17 | Rev. 14:1-16 | Rev. 14:17-20 |
Again the pattern is quite revealing as it is showing that the mark of the beast (vv. 14:9-11) is placed into action while the 1st beast is alive. In addition, the verses show that Babylon falls (v. 14:8) while the 1st beast is alive. I had believed that both of these events (mark of the beast and Babylon falling) were under the jurisdiction of the 2nd beast after the 1st beast had fallen as is represented in Chapter 17. After the rise of the 2nd (8th) beast at Rev. 17:11. Please notice that the 8th beast rises (Rev. 17:11) and then Babylon falls (Rev. 17:16). The 8th beast is the image (Rev. 13:14) but not the real beast. That is, the real beast is the beast of Rev. 13:1 and the image is the beast of Rev. 17:3. The real beast is the 7th of Rev. 17:10 and the image is the 8th of Rev. 17:11. Thus, the beast of Chapter 17 is the 2nd beast. Since Babylon falls under the authority of the 2nd beast in Chapter 17 then how is it that Babylon falls under the authority of the 1st beast in Chapter 14? The mark of the beast as referenced earlier in this paragraph is easier to explain away, but the fall of Babylon is a big issue that needs to be addressed. |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 27, 2020 17:04:21 GMT -6
The question at hand is where does the fall of Babylon take place: during the reign of the 1st beast (Rev. 6:4, 12:4, 13:1, etc.) or the 2nd beast (Rev. 6:8, 12:12, 13:11, etc.).
The placement of the fall of Babylon tells us if we will see the mark of the beast over a 3.5 year period of time or a 7 year period of time.
I had come to believe that the mark of the beast began with the 2nd beast as indicated in Chapter 13 at Rev. 13:11-17. Secondly, this is supported via Chapter 17 wherein the beast and his co-hearts destroy Babylon at Rev. 17:16 after the 2nd beast (IMO) as the 8th in this chapter.
I say this because the 1st beast is destroyed in the war of Chapter 12 and from that point on through Chapter 19 it is the 2nd beast (8th of Chapter 17) that rules the world. In fact, the beast rising in Rev. 13:1 is in retrospect back to the dragon of Rev. 12:3-4. That is, at Verse 12:3-4 the 1st beast is alive, and at Rev. 13:1 the 1st beast is dead and a created image. That is, at Rev. 17:3 the 1st beast is clearly an image, yet at Rev. 13:1 the 1st beast is in retrospect. He is in fact dead at this point in time but the verse is reflecting back to Chapter 12 wherein he was alive. Then after the retrospect of Verse 13:1 we are told that he is dead but alive (Rev. 13:3; as an image created by the 2nd beast of that Chapter; Rev. 13:14). In other words, the 2nd beast is lying to the world that the 1st beast yet lives. Please notice in Rev. 13:15 that it is the image that is speaking and not the 1st beast; because, the 1st beast is dead. He was killed in the war of Chapter 12.
So if it is the case that Babylon falls under the 2nd beast, then why is Chapter 14 showing that the 1st beast is alive when Babylon falls; and that my friends is at the heart of the question. The only answer can be that the beast as referenced in Rev. 14:9-11 is the 2nd beast of Chapter 13 (8th of Ch. 17). That after this 2nd beast causes the fall of Babylon at Rev. 14:8 and forces the population of the world to take the mark, then the harvest follows.
This means that the 1st beast is not in Chapter 14 at all except that he is an image only. This means that the harvest in Rev. 14:16 comes after the war that kills the 1st beast. Thus, in Chapter 6 we have the 1st beast killed at Rev. 6:5-6 followed by the image that is created by the 2nd beast and then the harvest. This means that the harvest is taking place while the 2nd beast reigns. (IMO)
The timeline:
1) 1st beast rises as shown in Rev. 6:4, 12:3-4, and in retrospect at Rev. 13:1.
2) the 1st beast is destroyed in the great war at Rev. 6:5-6, 12:7-11. This is the 3.5 year mark; the mid-point. This is quite telling of Chapter 12 that the war is at the mid-point of the 7 years and the middle of that chapter. It means that everything that follows and on to Chapter 19 is in the second 3.5 year period of time. That the only thing in Chapter 12 that is in the first 3.5 years of the tribulation is from Rev. 12:1-6 (IMO).
3) the 2nd beast creates an image of the 1st beast and states that he (the 1st beast) is still alive and well. This is after the mid-point.
4) The harvest is ongoing after the war and during the reign of the 2nd beast of Chapter 13 (8th of Chapter 17). It is for this reason that in Chapter 14 Babylon has fallen and the mark of the beast has been instituted.
Side note: this seems to indicate that the harvest is taking place during the 1st woe of Chapter 12.
This means that the mark does not exist for the first 3.5 years of the tribulation. Secondly, that Babylon presides over the 1st beast during the first 3.5 years of the tribulation. So what is the event that causes the rise of the 1st beast?
1) It must be the case that Covid19 exposes the rise of the 1st beast.
2) He causes a mandate that is not enforceable at first.
3) A war takes place to enforce the mandate. This is the mid-point.
4) the 1st beast is killed in the war but an image is created to show that he is alive.
5) The 2nd beast enforces the mandate via the destruction of Babylon (the economic system) and institutes the mark of the beast which lasts for 3.5 years.
From the above conclusions it is reasonable that we are currently in the tribulation era and it may have began with the great sign; or, it may have began with the onset of Covid19. That the fall of Babylon and the mark of the beast do not occur until the midpoint. In fact, it is the mid-point that stands out as the beginning of the second 3.5 year period. In other words, the first 3.5 years appear to be relatively calm by comparison.
From the above conclusions we will be in the mid-point war either at March 2021 or June 2023. Secondly, the rapture to the exodus must occur prior to one of those dates.
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Post by boraddict on Aug 28, 2020 19:29:40 GMT -6
My research is showing that the two beasts of the Book of Revelation do not reign at the same time. The 1st one lasts for 3.5 years and then the 2nd one lasts for 3.5 years. Secondly, the vast majority of the; let's say, prophecy chapters, although they do not include the big prophecy of the book, pertain to the 2nd beast. The following is the chapter breakdowns showing what verses apply to the 1st beast, the mid-point, and the 2nd beast. | Chapter | 1st beast | mid-point war | 2nd beast |
| | 4 | 1-11 |
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| Chapter 4 applies to the rapture that take place during the reign of the 1st beast | | 5 | 1 |
| 2-17 | Chapter 5 applies to show the father son relationships contrasting with Chapter 13 | | 6 | 1-4 | 5-6 | 7-17 | Chapter 6 contains the 6 seals two of which apply to the 1st beast, one applies to the mid-point war, and three apply to the 2nd beast. | | 7 | 1-12 | 13-17 |
| Chapter 7 is the marriage that takes place during the reign of the 1st beast | | 8 | 2-6 | 7-13 | 1 | Chapter 8 shows the 7th seal that has an application to the destruction of the 2nd beast. Then the angels with trumpets are prepared to sound in Verses 2-6, and they are angels of destruction, the first four of which apply to the mid-point war and the remaining three in Chapters 9-11 apply to the remaining 3.5 year reign of the 2nd beast. | | 9 |
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| 1-21 | Chapter 9 applies exclusively to the 2nd beast and it shows the actions of the 2nd beast after the mid-point war. | | 10 |
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| Chapter 10 applies exclusively to the 2nd beast and it shows the actions of the 144,000 after the mid-point war. | | 11 |
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| 1-19 | Chapter 11 applies exclusively to the 2nd beast and it shows the construction of the temple at Jerusalem following the mid-point war. |
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| | 12 | 1-6 | 7-11 | 12-17 | Chapter 12 applies to the 1st beast in Verses 1-6 and it is here that the raptrure takes place. Secondly, Verses 7-11 are the mid-point war, and lastly Verses 12-17 apply to the reign of the 2nd beast. | | 13 | 1, 18 |
| 2-17 | Chapter 13 has it's first verse in retrospect of the rise of the 1st beast at Verses 12:3-4 and as a dual prophecy the rise of the 1st beast as an image created by the 2nd beast. Verse 18 provides a riddle to help us identify that 1st beast in Verse 13:1. | | 14 |
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| 1-20 | Chapter 14 applies entirely to the actions of the 144,000 as they prepare to put down the 2nd beast. Please notice that they are involved in the harvest (that follows the mid-point war) at Verse 16 and they are prepared to destroy the 2nd beast in Verse 17 after the temple has been built. Chapter 14 harmonizes in many regards with Chapter 9. | | 15 |
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| 1-8 | Chapter 15 shows that the 1st beast has been destroyed (v. 2) and that further destruction is coming. Please notice that the temple has been completed prior to this chapter. | | 16 |
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| 1-21 | Chapter 16 is the enigma in the second half of the book because it clearly shows the final destruction of the wicked and afterwards Chapters 17, 18, and 19 remain. To aid in understanding the placement of Chapter 16 in the 2nd half of the book then please consider it's harmonious placement to Chapter 8 in the first half of the book as follows: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and then 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. As you can see the destruction of the 2nd beast in the second half of the book harmonizes with the destruction of the 1st beast in the 1st half of the book. Consequently, the fall of Babylon in Chapter 17 harmonizes with Chapter 9 showing that Chapter 9 is a fall of Babylon Chapter. This means that Chapter 10 is to Chapter 18 that is after the fall of Babylon; and Chapter 11 is to Chapter 19 wrapping things us for the 2nd beast's final destruction. | | 17 |
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| 1-18 | The kingpin Chapter of the entire book; because, this is the fall of Babylon that sets the stage for the mark of the beast. This chapter is the main attraction following the mid-point war. | | 18 |
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| 1-24 | I had previously believed that the call to the saints in Verse 4 was the rapture; however, in light of the above conclusions then the call at Verse 4 is the Chapter 14 harvest at Verse 16. This means that after the mid-point war the 2nd beast destroys Babylon that is the financial system and ushers in the mark of the beast era. It is then that the harvest takes place and Verse 4 is showing that harvest here in Chapter 18. | | 19 |
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| 1-21 | In Chapter 19 we see that Babylon has fallen after the mid-point war and the saints have been harvested from throughout the earth. Now the army of God takes to the field to destroy the 2nd beast as they have previously done to the 1st beast at the mid-point. In total the army of God fights the mid-point war putting down the 1st beast and then conducts the harvest throughout the earth followed by the war with the 2nd beast. The two wars are 3.5 years apart. |
All the above is my personal analysis of the Book of Revelation. The chapters are organized as follows: 4 and 12 are the rapture and attempted rapture prevention chapters 5 and 13 are the "Father / Son" and "father (1st beast) / son (2nd beast)" chapters 6 and 14 are the attempted harvest prevention and harvest chapters 7 and 15 are the Army of God preparation to destroy the 1st beast and the Army of God preparation to destroy the 2nd beast chapters 8 and 16 are the destruction of the 1st beast and destruction of the 2nd beast chapters 9 and 17 are the 2nd beast upon the world and fall of Babylon Chapters 10 and 18 are the saints in light and world in darkness chapters 11 and 19 are the temple is completed and saints endowed chapters I am saying that Chapter 19 shows the marriage but it is more than that. Because, the saints attended the marriage and sealing prior to the mid-point war (Ch. 7) wherein the 1st beast was destroyed. No, here in 19 not only is the 2nd beast destroyed but Satan is put in check for 1,000 years. Thus, the marriage ceremony as shown in 19 is like the marriage ceremony in Chapter 7 but the mission of the army is much more severe and involves the participation of the Savior himself. It is here that the dead (perhaps not all) are taken from the earth along with the living; a rapture from the earth for a period of time. Like Noah upon the waters the saints will be with Christ above the burning earth. Please note that I hold to the theory that there are 3 points of rapture: 1) the rapture to the exodus at the beginning of the 7 years 2) the harvest rapture at the mid-point following the mid-point war, fall of Babylon, and mark of the beast. This harvest may last for the remaining 3.5 years. The saints of this rapture are taken to the saints of the exodus here upon the earth. 3) the rapture from the earth at the end of the 7 years |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 30, 2020 12:57:36 GMT -6
The rapture is a subject that seems to be all over the map. Some believe in a pre-trib rapture while others believe in a mid-trib or even a post-trib rapture. Some believe in only one rapture while others believe in two or three raptures or even a rapture that continues over a period of time that may be up to 7 years long.
To aid in understanding the rapture and to arrive at a greater conscientious then it is reasonable that we distinguish between the rapture and the harvest; that they are two separate events as shown in Rev. 14:1 wherein the 144,000 are with Christ and clearly enraptured, and secondly a harvest at Rev. 14:14-16. Thus two events to wit:
1) saints are enraptured
and
2) saints are harvested
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Post by Natalie on Aug 30, 2020 15:41:24 GMT -6
In order to understand the rapture correctly, I believe you are going to want to look at books outside of just Revelation.
Have you considered the possibility that you are handicapping yourself by only focusing on Revelation for your understanding of this book and end times? Many believe, myself included, that this marvelous book pulls all the OT prophecies together and makes sense of them.
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Post by Natalie on Aug 30, 2020 15:53:49 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on Sept 4, 2020 18:40:18 GMT -6
I was outside for a few minutes and was burning up with the heat. So I thought that I would share a few thoughts and nothing that I say can compare with the world events or the tribulations in the lives of others.
We all know that we are in the tribulation or at least near the beginning of the tribulation. Personally, I believe that we are in fact in the tribulation.
One thing that never really made since is that the beast is destroyed at the end of the 7 years (Rev. 19:20). So working backwards we see that prior to his destruction the two witnesses are taken to heaven (Rev. 11:12). Before that we see the beast killing the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7). Before that we see the temple in Jerusalem (Rev. 11:1-2).
Please notice that the temple has a time-frame of 42 months (Rev. 11:2) and the two witnesses have a time-frame of 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3). So, 1,260 divided by 42 is 30 meaning that the months are 30 day months. Thus, the temple and two witnesses go hand in hand and it must be the case that the beast storms the temple and while doing so kills the two witnesses. However, that is at the end of the 7 years.
Thus, the real action of the beast upon the world is in the second half of the 7 years. So , what is the action in the first half of the 7 years? Well, that is what we are seeing right now. Countries are falling apart at the seams and especially the U. S. Today I was told that OSB that is a 4X8 sheet of wafer-board for housing jumped in price from $18 per sheet to $33 per sheet in the past few weeks. What does that do to the projected costs of building homes? How can builders plan for such price increases?
We all need to draw close to the Savior and stay faithful and true. We are in this together; we are in the tribulation. We will be called out when the time is right.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 4, 2020 19:11:58 GMT -6
Couldn't it be that the temple and witnesses are in the first 42 months, then the beast kills them and reigns for his 42 months and then he is killed?
See Rev 11:7 They finish their testimony and then are killed by the beast. Then in chapter 13 he is given 42 months to exercise authority. (Rev 13:5) A total of 7 years with him being killed at the end.
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Post by venge on Sept 5, 2020 7:34:19 GMT -6
I'm not going to go over all your work, but a statement you recently made piqued my interest.
In my studies, I think there is relation between the 6th seal and Babylon's destruction. But I don't believe it falls at the 6th seal. The description of a mountain falling into the sea is described elsewhere in scripture signifying the destruction of a kingdom. Not only that, but it is meant to portray the event as "never rising again". As a rock/stone sinks..it can never return. The 6th seals ending describes peoples watching an event that leaves them terrified. The event is not happening at that time; they want to hide in caves..
The event "to hide" must precede the final destruction which must take place afterwards. That would push the event into the Trumpets, where I believe it falls between the first 3. Also important, Babylon precedes the mark of the beast per Rev 14. This makes complete sense. As Babylon is destroyed and nothing remains, people are at a loss for the things "their souls desire". It is at that instance that the beast of the earth says "It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name." The buying and selling that was halted by Babylon's destruction (and ordained by God to be destroyed) is re-created under by the beast of the earth thereby disregarding God's command and the rejoicing of the saints at her destruction. God just had vengeance on Babylon. Now a man comes in that says, I don't care that God destroyed her, I will remake her - see the problem? Anyone who takes that mark and agrees is going against God's will. His will was to destroy Babylon.
Babylon was said to be:
‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
Who would want to bring that back after its destroyed? No true Christian. Thats why Rev 19 said:
1And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
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Post by venge on Sept 5, 2020 8:24:35 GMT -6
I was outside for a few minutes and was burning up with the heat. So I thought that I would share a few thoughts and nothing that I say can compare with the world events or the tribulations in the lives of others. We all know that we are in the tribulation or at least near the beginning of the tribulation. Personally, I believe that we are in fact in the tribulation. One thing that never really made since is that the beast is destroyed at the end of the 7 years (Rev. 19:20). So working backwards we see that prior to his destruction the two witnesses are taken to heaven (Rev. 11:12). Before that we see the beast killing the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7). Before that we see the temple in Jerusalem (Rev. 11:1-2). Please notice that the temple has a time-frame of 42 months (Rev. 11:2) and the two witnesses have a time-frame of 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3). So, 1,260 divided by 42 is 30 meaning that the months are 30 day months. Thus, the temple and two witnesses go hand in hand and it must be the case that the beast storms the temple and while doing so kills the two witnesses. However, that is at the end of the 7 years. Thus, the real action of the beast upon the world is in the second half of the 7 years. So , what is the action in the first half of the 7 years? Well, that is what we are seeing right now. Countries are falling apart at the seams and especially the U. S. Today I was told that OSB that is a 4X8 sheet of wafer-board for housing jumped in price from $18 per sheet to $33 per sheet in the past few weeks. What does that do to the projected costs of building homes? How can builders plan for such price increases? We all need to draw close to the Savior and stay faithful and true. We are in this together; we are in the tribulation. We will be called out when the time is right. I have come to the same conclusion. The 2 witnesses seem to coincide with the beast during their ministry. They are prevented from being harmed/killed till their ministry is complete. At which time, the beast can slay them. Since they finish their ministry right before Christ begins to reign (Rev 11 + Rev 19), and before the bride makes herself ready (Rev 19), it is my opinion that is not just the end of the 42 mo's, but the end of the age. Christ reign is a new age under his leadership as King. |
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Post by boraddict on Sept 5, 2020 13:56:59 GMT -6
venge, this is an awesome point that you have made:
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Sept 6, 2020 10:02:08 GMT -6
I was outside for a few minutes and was burning up with the heat. So I thought that I would share a few thoughts and nothing that I say can compare with the world events or the tribulations in the lives of others. We all know that we are in the tribulation or at least near the beginning of the tribulation. Personally, I believe that we are in fact in the tribulation. The whole Church Age is tribulation sister, Jesus told us in the Gospel of John that we would always have continual tribulation for his names sake. All the Disciples were Martyred save John, as Jesus warned them in Matt. 24:9-13, the Martyred Church was what took the Gospel forth, we still have many brothers Martyred in Muslim countries etc. etc. So, those that came out of the "Great Tribulation" in Rev. 7:9-17 is speaking about the Raptured Church who came out of the 2000 some odd year troubles, as in 2000>7. Thus the 70th week tribulation, as I like to call it, can't be upon us until after the Rapture. The Church Age period is GREATER in time, the 70th week, 3.5 year period of troubles is the Greatest Ever Troubles anyone will ever face. Both can be factual and are. Since there will always be troubles minus Jesus' presence, then the Church Age which is 2000 some odd years is tribulation, the 70th week is tribulation, and the last 3.5 years is tribulation also. The Church Age is the GREATEST LENGTH the 3.5 years is the GREATEST EVER TROUBLES that mankind will ever see. Great is an adjective, and it can be used to describe things in more ways that one. Besides, the Martyrs under the 5th Seal can't be in Heaven until after the Rev. 20:4 Judgment seat, where they are shown as being Judged after Jesus returns, and even in the 5th Seal, Jesus says you must wait until all your fellow brothers have been slain in like manner as you. We don't know exactly how long the Temple will built before the 3.5 years of God's Wrath starts, the Anti-Christ goes forty conquering on the day the Wrath of God begins, it gives him a deception advantage, and he uses it. Everyone's guard is downs as the asteroid strikes, the USA/Pacific realm/Americas in general are in peril. The part where the temple is measured I finally figured out what that means, John is told to measure the Temple AND those that worship therein, but not to measure the outside of the Temple, this simply gives us the Two-witnesses parameters, they are sent, like Jesus, to the Jews only, the Gentile Court of the Temple was the outer portion, the Gentiles could not enter the actual Temple of God. The Beast is destroyed at the 7th Vial, which is at Jesus' coming, but that is shown in Rev. 11, the 7th Trump, in Rev. 14:17-20, the Wine-press, in Rev. 16:19, where great Babylon is destroyed and in Rev. 19:20 where the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell fire. These are all the exact same event. The Jewish calendar was 30 day cycles, I think it was that way to make Prophecy understandable unto us. When you start having Leap Years, its going to get very complicated as per keeping up with the prophesies timings. JMHO. God was more concerned with prophecy than with being "PERFECT" as per the times seeing as it changes through the years minutely in the heavens. Thus we need to add leaap years even to the Gregorian calendars. We are in the Matthew 24:7-14 portion of events, the Matt. 24:3-6 portion was about 70 AD, the 7-14 verses are about the Church Age period. We are in the "BIRTHING PANGS" which means the baby has not yet arrived, the "BABY" in this case is the 70th week that is being birthed right? So, the birth pangs will end once the 70th week arrives, there will be 3.5 years of FAKE PEACE followed by 3.5 years of conquering and chaos. The difference is the Anti-Christ kills 2-3 billion people and God's Wrath will slay about as many if not more. The world has never seen anything like the 3.5 years of troubles !! We are in the birth pangs for sure, we are not in the 70th week tribulation period because the Rapture has not happened yet. Then the 70th week will be upon mankind, with 3.5 years of fake peace, which is why the 2nd Seal actually says he TAKES AWAY the Peace instead of brings wars, even though everyone calls the Red Horse the War Horse, it means the same thing, but God being perfect, wanted us to know that first there is a FAKE PEACE. Dan. 8:25 even says he DESTROYS MANY by Peace. Dan. 9:27 says he has a 7 year AGREEMENT (Covenant) with many, then in the middle of the agreement/Week, he reneges on his agreements. So my sister, as Paul told the Thessalonians, do not fear, we will not be here, we will DEPART before the Man of Sin comes AND before the Day of the Lord comes. Amen. I don't think this portion above was your post, but it was all mixed in, I think it was Natalie's post............ The Temple can come at any point, I don't think that is ever pointed out tbh sister. The book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order, just like Daniel is not in order. There is an order to it, but one must find it. The 3.5 years of God's Wrath can be seen in Rev. 8, 9, 15&16, that ENDS the 42 months of God's Wrath and it details it as such. The Anti-Christ mimics this timeline, he uses this Judgment Chaos to go forth conquering, thus we can see Satan/Dragon Chasing the Woman (Israel) via the Anti-Christs Army of course, who is protected by God for 42 months, we can see the Anti-Christ ARISE from being a mere E.U. President who is Anti-God/Christ, to being THE BEAST for a 42 month period of time in Rev. 13. We can see in Rev. 17 that he does away with all other Religions in that he kills of the Harlot (All False Religions) who is Judged by God and uses the Beast/Kings to judge her as Rev. 17:17 says. Rev. 18 is simply the other side of that two sided coin being judged, Babylon is simply this evil world being Judged by God. So, Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start in the Middle of the Week and all but Rev. 17 ends with the Second Coming, the Harlot Religions however are subdued by the Beast/Kings. So, if we are going to go by chapter 11 is before chapter 13, we are not going to see the order. I know some people insist that's the case, but its not, and Daniel is not in order either. We have a book that has an order, then it has Parenthetical Citations within those 42 months of God's Wrath. Kinda like this. Revelation 1 =Jesus seen in all his glory........2 and 3, the Church Age.......4 and 5 the Church/Bride in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened......Rev. 6, the Seals are opened but they are not ACTIONABLE, they only prophesy what is about to befall mankind.......Rev. 7 is the Jews Fleeing Judea and the Church seen in Heaven again......Rev. 8, 9, 15&16 is God's 42 Months of Wrath, or the Day of the Lord God's Judgments on mankind......THAT ENDS IT ALL.......In Rev. 16 the Angel says IT IS DONE. Now comes the Parenthetical Citation Chapters that happen in a parallel timeline to the 42 months of God's Wrath.
Rev. 10 is a flash forward to the very end that shows what happens when the 7th Trump has sounded.......Rev. 11 is the ODD BALL Chapter in away, it actually starts 75 days before the Middle of the week, and then the Two-witnesses are killed 75 days before the Beast dies, I would have to explain this elsewhere in full as its very detailed and lengthy......Rev. 12 as I explain above starts on the DOTL, the Rev. 8 asteroid strike, Satan is cast down to earth on that day, we know that because he chases Israel for exactly 1260 days......Rev. 13 is the Beast arising, since he rules for 1260 days, we know he goes forth Conquering at the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments also......Rev. 14 is the Harvest Chapter, it shows the Jews (144,000) as the Wheat being gathered into God's Barn in verse 1, and the Wicked Tares being placed in the Wine-press in verses 17-20, BUT...It also flashes back to the Pre Trib Rapture in verse 14, so Rev. 14 covers the full 7 years of Harvests.........Rev. 17 and 18 were explained above, both start at the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments, Rev. 19 shows Jesus coming back, of course this must happen BEFORE Rev. 16:19 can come to pass, BEFORE Rev. 14:17-20 can happen and BEFORE the Victory Rev. 11 brings over Babylon. Rev. 20-22 of course happens after Jesus has taken over. God Bless all.............only 2 weeks of Radiation left, you guys say a Prayer for me, not been feeling great lately. But all is going to end well, we know the ending don't we sisters !! Amen |
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