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Post by venge on Jul 2, 2018 15:03:59 GMT -6
venge Maybe boraddict didnt write it as inteded I believe and have read elsewhere that the seals have been opened or as barbiosheepgirl says we've had famine, wars etc for years and years and years (of course I'm direct quoting that). SO maybe just a better explanation of the "so forth" wouldve helped |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 2, 2018 17:29:37 GMT -6
I almost sent a request to the moderators to move these past few posts to a Seals thread, and then I remembered I AM a moderator... oy vey. Yet, in some bizarre way this ties into the timing of Rev 12 Sign. because it is about timing. HOW is this Sign relating to the rest of Revelation, for one thing. But also, what really is the beginning events of Revelation? and why did that Sign appear in the fall right on about FOT of 2017? We cannot answer that correctly unless we have some other things sorted out first! but let me address venge first: I have some observations of your reply so bear with me. The destruction of the 2nd Temple was noticeable and the dispersion of the jews in the 1st century too. Certain proclamations of the Chrsistian movement and the muslim movement and the things that surround the jews are also noticeable..just sayin.' Fig tree analysis: there is the seed that sets the fruit, a growth of that fruit and buildup to a harvest. So this is also a drawn out process..just sayin'. This seems to be a speculative comment in itself because you are drawing the conclusion that the Seals are roadblocks, and I see then as Jesus exercising His authority, dictating or signing off of events to manifest. the 3rd Seal does not directly associate a wicked thing nor does the 5th Seal. I also thought in another thread you were taking the position that the Seals did not seem to be all that "bad" by description... Nor can I find that He waits until a certain timeframe now or in the future.. Maybe this is why there is silence for a half an hour at some point in Revelation. To me that is the only timeframe of a delay or nothing happening...but I digress. HOWEVER I have this scripture to support a slow progression of opening of the Seals: 24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away...‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”So this tells me that Evil grows up along side the good fruit and we know this is not a quick event, but rather a 'season' of time. Tell me where this rider is an imposter? Is it not speculation to call the white horse rider an imposter? Here is the Young's Literal Translation of this passage: and I saw, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is having a bow, and there was given to him a crown, and he went forth overcoming, and that he may overcome.some others: I looked up and saw a white horse standing there. Its rider carried a bow, and a crown was placed on his head. He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.
And I heard and I saw and behold, a white horse, and he who sat upon it had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went out and gave victory, and was conquering and would conquer.
here the word crown is stephanos meaning:a crown, garland, honor, glory. and the word conquer is nikaó meaning I conquer, am victorious, overcome, prevail, subdue. My own main Bible says this dude on the white horse is the antichrist but my bible also says many things that are still a man's interpretation of scripture. At this point I am challenging until I am defeated by scripture. When you look at the word Crown and the word for Overcoming, in the concordances, which, yes is man-made, there are way more scripture supporting the crown as a glorious thing given, of honor and a positive slant than deception, and the word conquer meaning an overcoming that is in relation to overcoming evil than evil overcoming good. This is why I challenge this Seal. Yet the majority says otherwise,,,this is my roadblock How about this: This rider tells us there is going to be battle, how about that? We can let the Lord tell us if the rider is on our side or on the side of evil...AMEN? With that said, this battle(s) coming can and have been at any time after Jesus ascended into heaven, and Paul supports this: 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places....and I will comment to boraddict now. BOR you have me agreeing with you many times and then you put forth things that raise my eyebrows and I say whaaat girl are you a'sayin?? I am with venge and mike that to draw a thought that the seals are 1000 year things is really reaching...UNLESS they are depictions of history. But the context f the Seals is this book is given to the one worthy and he shows up in front of John. He was not standing there the whole time. This at minimum should suggest that the Seals are a post Ascension event..and depict the "dispensation" (those who like that term) of the rules of the game NOW that HE HAS OVERCOME!! Praise God for sending us His Son!! Oh how we long for our eternal restoration! Edit: epiphany...Here is Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
19“If you consent and obey,
You will eat the best of the land;
20“But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword.”
Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Revelation 6:
2I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.)4And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 2, 2018 18:12:50 GMT -6
venge, so sorry, have no idea that I could be editing a post of another poster. Hopefully my quotes in the above post of mine covered all your points and that others will see that you had these replies to bor and me..
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2018 18:13:26 GMT -6
venge Maybe boraddict didnt write it as inteded I believe and have read elsewhere that the seals have been opened or as barbiosheepgirl says we've had famine, wars etc for years and years and years (of course I'm direct quoting that). SO maybe just a better explanation of the "so forth" wouldve helped Yes. Okay. Trying to stay out of hot water here.  From the list of horsemen the first is Enoch, the second is Noah, the third is Moses, the fourth is Elijah, and the fifth although not a horseman is John the Beloved. The next one in the order is the 144,000 that are in the 6th seal. Last is Michael as the angel of the 7th seal. Thus, Enoch lived in the first 1,000 years, Noah the second, Moses the third, Elijah the fourth, John the fifth, the 144,000 the sixth, and Michael the seventh. Thus, the list shows a reference to the seals as 1,000 year periods of time within which the 7 individuals above have lived upon the earth. As follows" v. 6:1-2, "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." This is Enoch. v. 6:3-4, "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." This is Noah. peace was taken from the earth in the great flood wherein all the people of the earth were fighting for their lives thus they are killing one another and the great sword is the great flood. v. 6:5-6, "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine." This is Moses. He is the great law giver holding the balances of law as well as conducting the purchase of the children of Israel from Egypt. v. 6:7-8, "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." This is Elijah. Death and hell reference Elijah and Elisha. These two prophets were responsible for killing a number of people. v. 6:9-10, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." This is the period of time following the death of the Savior and it took place in the 5th 1,000 year period of time. The individual representing that period of time in the Book of Revelation is John. v. 6:12-17, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The ones that are able to stand during this period of destruction are the 144,000 of the 6th seal. Thus, the 144,000 represent the Christians that are alive upon the earth in the 6th seal; although they live at the very end of that 6th one thousand year period of time. The seventh is Michael who stands for his people (Dan. 12:1) and holding the little book (Rev. 10:2) and giving that book to John (Rev. 10:9). It was then, after John was instructed, that he wrote that Lord Jesus instructed the angel and the angel instructed John. Thus, the angel of Rev. 10:1 is Michael, living upon the earth in the seventh seal and representing that 1,000 year period of time in the BoR. Now before you guys shoot the messenger, please know that I am not arguing this chain of events. It does not apply to the seven years of tribulation as 1,000 year periods of time but as the saints of God living during that period of seven years. Thus, Enoch, Noah, Moses, Elijah, John, the 144,000, and Michael will all be upon the earth during the seven years of Tribulation as well as others from those periods of time. Nevertheless, that is not the area of interest that I am presently working on and is provided as something I worked on several years ago as one of many layers in Revelation Chapter 6. Remember, please do not shoot the messenger!  That is so funny because I know Venge is going to shoot the messenger. |
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Post by venge on Jul 3, 2018 15:10:44 GMT -6
Oh I am going to reply! There is no doubt there will be a massive wall of reply. But not till tomorrow....I’m at work atm.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 3, 2018 18:53:03 GMT -6
Oh I am going to reply! There is no doubt there will be a massive wall of reply. But not till tomorrow....I’m at work atm. venge, please be merciful. |
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Post by venge on Jul 4, 2018 10:03:54 GMT -6
I almost sent a request to the moderators to move these past few posts to a Seals thread, and then I remembered I AM a moderator... oy vey. Yet, in some bizarre way this ties into the timing of Rev 12 Sign. because it is about timing. HOW is this Sign relating to the rest of Revelation, for one thing. But also, what really is the beginning events of Revelation? and why did that Sign appear in the fall right on about FOT of 2017? We cannot answer that correctly unless we have some other things sorted out first! but let me address venge first: I have some observations of your reply so bear with me. The destruction of the 2nd Temple was noticeable and the dispersion of the jews in the 1st century too. Certain proclamations of the Chrsistian movement and the muslim movement and the things that surround the jews are also noticeable..just sayin.' Fig tree analysis: there is the seed that sets the fruit, a growth of that fruit and buildup to a harvest. So this is also a drawn out process..just sayin'. This seems to be a speculative comment in itself because you are drawing the conclusion that the Seals are roadblocks, and I see then as Jesus exercising His authority, dictating or signing off of events to manifest. the 3rd Seal does not directly associate a wicked thing nor does the 5th Seal. I also thought in another thread you were taking the position that the Seals did not seem to be all that "bad" by description... Nor can I find that He waits until a certain timeframe now or in the future.. Maybe this is why there is silence for a half an hour at some point in Revelation. To me that is the only timeframe of a delay or nothing happening...but I digress. HOWEVER I have this scripture to support a slow progression of opening of the Seals: 24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away...‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”So this tells me that Evil grows up along side the good fruit and we know this is not a quick event, but rather a 'season' of time. Tell me where this rider is an imposter? Is it not speculation to call the white horse rider an imposter? Here is the Young's Literal Translation of this passage: and I saw, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is having a bow, and there was given to him a crown, and he went forth overcoming, and that he may overcome.some others: I looked up and saw a white horse standing there. Its rider carried a bow, and a crown was placed on his head. He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.
And I heard and I saw and behold, a white horse, and he who sat upon it had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went out and gave victory, and was conquering and would conquer.
here the word crown is stephanos meaning:a crown, garland, honor, glory. and the word conquer is nikaó meaning I conquer, am victorious, overcome, prevail, subdue. My own main Bible says this dude on the white horse is the antichrist but my bible also says many things that are still a man's interpretation of scripture. At this point I am challenging until I am defeated by scripture. When you look at the word Crown and the word for Overcoming, in the concordances, which, yes is man-made, there are way more scripture supporting the crown as a glorious thing given, of honor and a positive slant than deception, and the word conquer meaning an overcoming that is in relation to overcoming evil than evil overcoming good. This is why I challenge this Seal. Yet the majority says otherwise,,,this is my roadblock How about this: This rider tells us there is going to be battle, how about that? We can let the Lord tell us if the rider is on our side or on the side of evil...AMEN? With that said, this battle(s) coming can and have been at any time after Jesus ascended into heaven, and Paul supports this: 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places....and I will comment to boraddict now. BOR you have me agreeing with you many times and then you put forth things that raise my eyebrows and I say whaaat girl are you a'sayin?? I am with venge and mike that to draw a thought that the seals are 1000 year things is really reaching...UNLESS they are depictions of history. But the context f the Seals is this book is given to the one worthy and he shows up in front of John. He was not standing there the whole time. This at minimum should suggest that the Seals are a post Ascension event..and depict the "dispensation" (those who like that term) of the rules of the game NOW that HE HAS OVERCOME!! Praise God for sending us His Son!! Oh how we long for our eternal restoration! Edit: epiphany...Here is Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
19“If you consent and obey,
You will eat the best of the land;
20“But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword.”
Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Revelation 6:
2I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.)4And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
Barbie said, Yes, both the temple and dispersion were noticeable. I am not saying the process is not drawn out, just the contrary. I had stated that Christ waiting to open the seals is a possibility. It could be a drawn out process as you stated. Barbie said, Jesus is using his authority to open the seals. He was made "worthy". I had said the seals function like a roadblock. They hold certain things contained within from not happening TILL one who comes can open the book. That does not negate the fact that once opened by the one who is worthy that the seals themselves hold/contain/control or roadblock the good and bad things within. The seals are bad. Prior to the AoD be set up to bring forth the Great tribulation (Jacob's trouble) we have the birth pangs to which I believe are the seals. And the birth pangs/time of sorrows are bad. Conquering is opposite of peace. War, famine, pestilence and death. None of this is obviously good. But it is all necessary in order to birth the day of the Lord. When we look at the 3rd seal, we see: Now, we are either talking about a famine...which is bad, or we are talking about something else? If we are talking about something not literal here, we have to understand weight measurements, what is the wheat and the barely, the oil and wine. Now, I know we have the possibility of both. I believe it can be both, but I wont go into that here. I will say this, there is a strong correlation with Matthew 24. In Verse 7 we could see the 1st seal of Conquering, the 2nd seal of War, the 3rd seal of famine/Pestilence and all these result in the 4th seal of death. What of the possible 5th seal? Verse 9! They shall deliver [YOU] up and kill you. What does Christ say next? He speaks of the AoD in verse 15 following a possible 5th seal. He then says it will be great Tribulation in verse 21. And the 6th seal in verse 29 following this: Christ then says the key.... What things shall we see that we know Christ advent is at hand? When we see:1. nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: 2. and there shall be famines, 3. and pestilences, 4. and earthquakes, in divers places. 5. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you 6. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation 7. the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken Haver you see all of this yet? Some of them we can attest to but not all. Most likely 1 through 5. But with [5], he also says, That hasn't happened yet. We are not there yet therefore, it is something to watch for. That is the cause for the falling away. Being hated everywhere by all nations will cause people to leave out of fear or persecution. That has not happened on a global scale. We had even spoken of relation between Revelation and Daniel. When Christ quotes in Matthew 24, you believe it is part of Revelation? But when Christ said in verse 21: Daniel says the same thing. Christ identifies it was a specific time frame as the great tribulation (Jacob's trouble), but Daniel 12:1 sheds further info on it. That is the time his people are saved. Everyone found in the book. Some to everlasting life.... Amazingly, with Christ identifying it as at the Great Tribulation and Daniel identifying it as the time his people will be saved, everyone found written in the book...to everlasting life. Christ in Matthew 24, after this written in verse 21, mentions the 6th seal in verse 29 and in verse 30 we see completely backing up Daniel 12:1's assertion of being saved to everlasting life. But it is by Christ. When Christ comes, how many times does he come with a great sound of a trumpet? How many times does he come with his reapers to gather his wheat into his barn? When Christ comes, how many times does he save everyone written in the book to everlasting life? I only know of 1 time. Barbie said, I agree very much. That is a good verse to support a slow opening possibility. In reality we don't know. I try not to speculate as much as possible because I don't want my flesh to push my opinion without scripture. I try very hard as we all do in this regards but sometimes we all slip. I see it a lot on the internet making assertions that are totally false without any evidence. The seals are eventually opened. That is a fact. Are they opened now or are they opened later? My understanding has me to believe that the seals may be opened later only because the seals seem to mimick the birth pangs prior to the AoD which would fall in the first half of the 70th week. That is the only reason. But I realize looking at John watching a vision unfold in front of him, was he watching the past or the future? Most likely the past as Christ ascends. But was the vision of the opening immediately after? I don't know. Barbie said, First why was a crown given to him? And he went forth conquering. Is Christ symbolic of a rider on a white horse? Absolutely! Does Christ wear a crown? Yes. Does Christ conquer men? That is not his attribute. He will punish man, he will set up a kingdom, but he is not here to conquer what is already his. When I view this seal, my interpretation is first the horse symbolic of battle. But being a white horse is opposite of war. It is peaceful. A peace comes that the rider holds a bow but no arrows. But you see this façade is broken when he goes out to conquer. In 2 Thessalonians 2, we see: This is describing the man of sin/lawless one. In Daniel 36 we learn the 11th horn has a crown. But I see a duel fulfillment as previous verses focus on the future man of sin. In verse 23-24 we see: Here is a man who comes in like a rider on a white horse. Not speculative but factual because of its symbolic nature describing him coming in peacably. But in the next verse, he goes from peace to conquering... In Daniel 8:25 we learn more of this, This 11th horn comes in peace symbolic of a white horse. But, "by peace he shall destroy many". This is future because he stands up to the prince of princes, Christ Jesus, and is broken without hand. This is why there is a strong correlation and not speculation to think that 11th horn which comes in as peaceful, then starts war, is the white rider of the 1st seal. Now onto BORA. Bora said, So, Enoch goes forth to conquer? Noah brings forth war. Moses brings famine Elijah brings death? The believers who died begging for vengeance is John? None of that is scriptural. Not 1 cent. Not even speculation. There are 2 witnesses. Behold I will send you Elijah....How is Elijah the 4th if he is a witness? And if he is both you only have 1 other witness, not 4 others. Let me ask you, did you ever think....the rider that sits on the first horse, is the same rider on all the horses? Just wondering. All that changes is the horse's color with what the color represents, the rider continues to sit. Just wondering...=P In each case, the rider comes forth on the white horse as peace but he goes to conquer. Now his white horse, not being peaceful is red identifying it as war. Through war, the same rider which I identify as the man of sin (11th horn), causes famine and pestilence. A result of war and eventually death. Is this is a hard thing to understand how 1 man could be the same rider by cause and effect? |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 4, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -6
venge, you had me at one rider on 4 different colored horses! and just a bit with your peace/Daniel/Matt 24 compilation.
However, I disagree with you on the rapture(s) because I see three of them in Chapter 14 of Revelation. In order for me to hold this stance I again will go up against many who call the 144,000 a literal count and literal jews from those tribes. I will also be accused of replacing one group of people for another..but I have been building my case scripturally for another thread. I still also hold to a spiritual meaning for the 4th Seal. Famine Pestilence death by beasts as elements of false teachings, lack of food (word of God), spreading of falsehoods or deception, like plagues on whole groups of peoples. I say this because we are spirtualizing the meanings of the color of the horses, the symbolism of the weaponry of the 1st rider, the complex measures of fruits and the white robes of seal 5...many many examples of things that "signify" the battle/war for our souls.. In several bible translations I see that the first seal is actually call "one of the seals,,," then we have a progression of 2nd third 4th.. The number of riders is not by accident then. 4 of them. 4 is often referenced to things of order. 4 gospels, 4 corners of the earth 4 living creatures in heaven, and the 4th day He created the sun and moon 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Epiphany here: The 4th rider seems to represent how horrible it is WITHOUT God and His order! and even more so, The Sign had the moon and the sun in it...(day 4 of creation) could this be pointing to us that the Seals are about to be opened. OR the first 3 have, and the 4th started with the Rev 12 sign. I am talking about things like the infiltration of our borders and countries in europe with islam, namely, but take in the account that many are NOT coming to faith. Look how God has been taken out of our schools and the evil that results from it...
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Post by boraddict on Jul 4, 2018 13:05:22 GMT -6
Barb, I am with you on the number 4. It plays some significant role for the last days because it is repeated again and again. I theorized that the number 4 is the sign of the Savior. If that is the case then the 4th rider is just as you have said: "The 4th rider seems to represent how horrible it is WITHOUT God and His order!
" Perhaps this would mean that the rapture is prior to or at the 4th horsemen.
Venge has a good point that the 4 horsemen are one rider. It seems right; however, I have not had time to explore that conclusion. Who is the rider?
That being the case what does the horsemen represent? Perhaps 4 periods of time, or 4 events in which the Great Sign is one of those events; the first? I guess the 70 year birthday of Israel is the second; something like that?
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Post by venge on Jul 4, 2018 13:13:22 GMT -6
venge , you had me at one rider on 4 different colored horses! and just a bit with your peace/Daniel/Matt 24 compilation.
However, I disagree with you on the rapture(s) because I see three of them in Chapter 14 of Revelation. In order for me to hold this stance I again will go up against many who call the 144,000 a literal count and literal jews from those tribes. I will also be accused of replacing one group of people for another..but I have been building my case scripturally for another thread. I still also hold to a spiritual meaning for the 4th Seal. Famine Pestilence death by beasts as elements of false teachings, lack of food (word of God), spreading of falsehoods or deception, like plagues on whole groups of peoples. I say this because we are spirtualizing the meanings of the color of the horses, the symbolism of the weaponry of the 1st rider, the complex measures of fruits and the white robes of seal 5...many many examples of things that "signify" the battle/war for our souls.. In several bible translations I see that the first seal is actually call "one of the seals,,," then we have a progression of 2nd third 4th.. The number of riders is not by accident then. 4 of them. 4 is often referenced to things of order. 4 gospels, 4 corners of the earth 4 living creatures in heaven, and the 4th day He created the sun and moon 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Epiphany here: The 4th rider seems to represent how horrible it is WITHOUT God and His order! and even more so, The Sign had the moon and the sun in it...(day 4 of creation) could this be pointing to us that the Seals are about to be opened. OR the first 3 have, and the 4th started with the Rev 12 sign. I am talking about things like the infiltration of our borders and countries in europe with islam, namely, but take in the account that many are NOT coming to faith. Look how God has been taken out of our schools and the evil that results from it... I agree, I see the rapture in Rev 14. What I didn't say was I believe the rapture in Rev 14 is the same rapture after the 6th seal in Rev 7. Each one is the same event complementing each other giving more information. Like watching an event unfold....continuing with the story...then going back to it with more detail in a vision....the same episode but later in the story like day dreaming. I take them both as the same event. In Rev 7, you have the 144k and those that come out of great tribulation. In Rev 14, you have the 144k, but now we have additional info to place it in a time frame. IF the rapture comes after the 6th seal per Matthew 24, for those that believe that as I do, then the 144k must be sealed before the wrath comes. But in Rev 14, we learn mystery Babylon is destroyed. Then we have the rapture (harvest) and the winepress. If that is correct, the order of events would be 6th seal astral event, 144k sealed, mystery Babylon destroyed, rapture, gods wrath, winepress. Somehow in a similar order. In Joel 2: we have the invading locust army. Verse 9: This final invading army will attack Jerusalem. In verse 10 while they are attacking Jerusalem we see: Interesting....very very similar to the 6th seal. Verse 11 follows: Similar to Rev 6:17 after the 6th seal, same as here it is said: This is the same exact event shown to Joel. In each book, we learn little by little, precept by precept....But in Joel, we learn more info to add. As we follow. God announces that at that time (in Chapter 3:1) then the following happens: It is a perfect parallel to Rev 7 and Rev 14 with Joel. In Joel, we can see Israel attacked, then the 6th seal begins, then in Rev we have the 144k sealed, then we have Babylon destroyed in revelation, then we have the harvest and then we have the winepress. |
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