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Post by fitz on Jun 22, 2018 18:29:02 GMT -6
I just cannot agree yet to a solar system display as a sign. Even Christ said a foolish generation looks for a sign. The idea that the women is Israel is well proven in scripture. The 12 stars and the son born and caught up. All as a past event. To suggest it as a shadow of things to come or a duel fulfillment, I would think it is not what the text describes when it builds to the son returning. As Barbie said, precept upon precept. If you think we are to look into the sky, there should be multiple scripture stating such. Otherwise, everyone is turning to the left and right after their own inclinations. I’m not saying anyone is wrong, I’m saying there needs to be scripture line by line to prove it without mathematical equations, hypothesis and foreign sources Venge, millions of people saw the same sign in the heavens that John describes in Rev 12:1&2. Are you suggesting we all ignore it? Nothing to see here? Didn't mean anything? Has God revealed 100% of everything in scripture or do you think there are a few things He hasn't told us about? Just askin'. |
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Post by Natalie on Jun 22, 2018 19:43:12 GMT -6
Genesis 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years."
Venge: what occurred in the heavens Sept 23-24, 2017 matches Rev 12:1-2 and it has never taken place before and will not again. I checked every so called date that people claimed it happened before. None were matches. And the fact that Jupiter spent the same amount of time in Virgo as a pregnancy was amazing, too.
Our God is amazing. Our Bibles are true. And He's coming again! Hallelujah!
To address the original post, I don't know why He set it to take place when it did. I imagine that it will all make sense soon. But by then we probably won't care because we will be with our Redeemer!
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Post by stormyknight on Jun 22, 2018 21:27:26 GMT -6
first of all, thanks stormyknight for saying: We can hand out the Gospel of John to any Joe on the street and hope and have faith in the salvation is might bring, so too with when each one of us wants to dig deep into the end time prophecies, digging in directly. So thank you for not telling me I need to trust the experts. If we pray fervently before we study and ask for discernment, how can we not be led to the truth by our faithful Father in Heaven. When I read others' thoughts and writings and speculations, sometimes certain things just stand out. It's like I'm being hit over the head, "Pay attention here, check this out, now put it with this over here.." etc. It seems the picture gets ever clearer the more pieces we put together. And we must consider all things from each of us, the scholar and the amateur, but if the piece doesn't fit or feel right, don't throw it out. Set it aside. It may fit somewhere else.
I'm sorry, it's late and I feel I'm rambling, but I just wanted to put that out there.
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Post by venge on Jun 23, 2018 3:24:46 GMT -6
Barbie, I agree with your comment. I just find it hard to focus on planetary alignment for an event. This isn’t a movie. When Christ said things in the moon and sun....we are given those things. Not sure he said to watch Virgo, the Pleiades, Jupiter or anything like that. When John wrote Revelation, they had the planets/stars named. I don’t see the metaphor linking to literal planatery conjuction or other means.
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Post by venge on Jun 23, 2018 3:27:26 GMT -6
Perhaps this was a false sign to deceive you into “being drunk” and causing you to stumble. Has anyone thought of that? It is possible.
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Post by mike on Jun 23, 2018 5:57:00 GMT -6
Venge As Natalie quotes from Genesis 1 they are for signs...the planets were not known as they were today. The ancients knew 5 total but not as planets. I think they called them wandering stars. I believe the Lord set the entire cosmos in motion on the fourth day. If it is a deception it is not only from Him but He had John put it in Rev as a Great Sign. It took 6000 years for this to happen exactly the way it did. To me that's not a deception. I don't think our God would decieve us. God will send a strong delusion, but thats not for the righteous, it's for those who love their sin 2 Thes 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
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Post by venge on Jun 23, 2018 9:10:39 GMT -6
I realize I am the minority, but I’m not bought on this yet. Nothing shows me this is biblical. I watched some YouTube vids last night regarding this topic. I haven’t seen any evidence that is solid. Just presumptions. Is it exciting? Yes! I love astronomy.
Could it be linked? Definitely!
Is God asking us to look for an astronomical sequence, unviewable to the naked eye, to point to a possible link in scripture that is based off of the risen savior? Hmm...
Christ said to watch for signs we all could “see”. Signs that we see with our eyes. Signs we’d know were signs because living on the earth we’d notice a change.
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Post by boraddict on Jun 23, 2018 10:10:47 GMT -6
I realize I am the minority, but I’m not bought on this yet. Nothing shows me this is biblical. I watched some YouTube vids last night regarding this topic. I haven’t seen any evidence that is solid. Just presumptions. Is it exciting? Yes! I love astronomy. Could it be linked? Definitely! Is God asking us to look for an astronomical sequence, unviewable to the naked eye, to point to a possible link in scripture that is based off of the risen savior? Hmm... Christ said to watch for signs we all could “see”. Signs that we see with our eyes. Signs we’d know were signs because living on the earth we’d notice a change. Okay Venge, I think I understand that your point is "only those signs we can see with the naked eye such as the Star of Bethlehem." However, scripture does not stipulate that all signs must be seen from earth. Thus, some signs might be seen from the far side of the galaxy; we might never see them but God would know of them. Similarly, God would know that modern technology would allow us to see signs that were not available to the naked eye. It means that we may never see all the signs in the heavens; nevertheless, they are there. Some are seen with the naked eye, some are seen via modern technology, and some are seen only by the gift of God. That is, God could carry someone away in spirit to see the signs in the heavens from another vantage point and Henry Gruver claims to have seen such a thing in one of his visions. It is like a testimony. The godless do not have a testimony and yet God lives and we know that truth. There are signs in the heavens and we also know that truth. The question is, Did God take into account that we would have modern technology to see The Great Chapter 12 Sign; I believe he did. Additionally, an astronomer might not need modern technology to see this sign with his naked eye. |
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 23, 2018 11:44:34 GMT -6
This is a bit of thinking out loud and trying to systematically examine the possibilities.
Why September 23-24, 2017?
1) It's not actually the Great Sign from Revelation 12
2) It marked the actual time of the Rapture
3) It was an 8 month warning (you know you're pregnant after the first month, and then there are 8 months to go)
4) It was a 9 month warning
5) It was pointing to the Feast of Trumpets generally but not September 23-24, 2017 specifically
6) It was pointing to Pentecost generally but not May 20, 2018 specifically
I think that's all the possibilities (please suggest any others if you think of them).
We can probably rule out #1 because I think it's too incredible to be a coincidence. However, in Revelation 12 the woman and the dragon interact. Since there does not appear to have been any Sign of the Dragon on September 23-24 to interact with it, this casts a modicum of doubt on the arrangement actually being the Sign of the Woman.
We can rule out #2 for obvious reasons.
#3 points to Pentecost, which is thought-provoking, but the Rapture obviously didn't happen 8 months later.
#4 remains to be seen.
#5 and #6 are nice, but why set up such an elaborate and dramatic sign if the event it signifies is not ready to go?
Based on careful thinking #4 seems to be the most likely, or perhaps the least unlikely. To make things even more interesting, June 24, 2018 is the date calculated by the Enoch Calendar method. June 24 is also a candidate date for Pentecost based on one method of determining the new year, but it seems to have been ruled out based on the date the barley ripened.
Pentecost makes sense as a Rapture date, but May 20 has come and gone, and June 24, though interesting, seems to have been ruled out. (But, of course, June 24 isn't in the rearview mirror yet.)
Sooooo... why that particular sign on that particular date?
I think it means we are at the end of the road, we are about to witness the end of the world. Jesus is about to roll this whole place up like a scroll. But why that particular sign on that particular date? I could never find anything with the actual date of 9/23. I think it's still a good idea to check for everything. Leave no stone unturned. In the days after 9/23, i saw Scott Clark talking about the 24th and the 25th looking just as good on Stellarium with the moon at her feet, as the 23rd. And it had to come after 1994, and after the 2014/15 terads, but before the conjunction of 11/13/17. The big job of the Revelation 12 sign, in my opinion, was to point to the Venus/Jupiter conjunction. There's been countless Venus and Jupiter conjunctions, but only one of them is preceded by the Revelation 12 sign. but why set up such an elaborate and dramatic sign if the event it signifies is not ready to go? It could be that our definition of "ready to go" is not the same as God's. One or even two years to Him might be the same as "near, right at the door, " and ready to go. "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. I think these verses might span the whole 1260 days leading up to: "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud. So: 2015 solar eclipse and tetrads = signs in the sun, and in the moon. 2017 Revelation 12 sign = and in the stars. 2018 and early 2019 = and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth. And if i'm right, it could begin at any time. This weekend, or in the next few weeks. And when it begins, it will be very fast. 170 days. Or 5 months, 17 days including the end date. And then the end will come. For some. But others will stay for awhile, to be in the wine press, the vials. But don't quote me on any of this. I also think that i'm living in the glorious land, the holy place. And that i'm a leader of the Ammonites. "He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. Dave Pack was talking about these guys being the place of safety, where the "woman" would be protected in modern day Jordan. Dave Watchman says that the "woman" was already "nourished" during the Foxe Book days, but that's another story. But why would God protect the Jordanians, or the ancient ruins of Petra. What if i don't have the money to get to Petra in time? It doesn't sound logical. Could Edom, and Moab, and the leaders of Ammon be figurative for something or someone else? I mean, if the glorious land has now been transplanted to America, and to be a "Jew" is to be Abraham's seed, maybe Edom, and Moab, and the leaders of Ammon have been redefined as a certain type of people who will be protected, kept during the hour of trial, who are spread out over various jurisdictions. Who were the Edomites? In the Bible, the Edomites are the descendants of Esau, Jacob’s twin and Isaac’s oldest son (Genesis 36). Who were the Moabites? In the Bible, the Moabites are said to have descended from Moab, the son of Lot and his oldest daughter (Genesis 19:37). Who were the Ammonites? In the Bible, they are described as being descendants of Ben-ammi, who was the son of Lot (Abraham’s nephew) and Lot’s younger daughter (Genesis 19:38). www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-near-eastern-world/ammonites-moabites-edomites-in-the-bible/Descendants of lot and his daughters. What happened to Lot and his daughters?, they were escorted to safety prior to the destruction of Sodom. It might be we, who are the spiritual descendants of the people who were divinely saved from the destruction of the Sodomites, that these verses refer to. Lot's offspring are saved from the wrath. I couldn't figure out the Edomites yet. I'll have to come back to this one. Esau, Jacob's twin. Isaac's oldest son. The firstborn. The oldest shall serve the youngest. Two nations are in your womb. Your kingdom will be taken from you and given to a nation that will bear it's fruit. Peaceful Sabbath. |
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 23, 2018 12:47:05 GMT -6
I realize I am the minority, but I’m not bought on this yet. Nothing shows me this is biblical. I watched some YouTube vids last night regarding this topic. I haven’t seen any evidence that is solid. Just presumptions. Is it exciting? Yes! I love astronomy. Could it be linked? Definitely! Is God asking us to look for an astronomical sequence, unviewable to the naked eye, to point to a possible link in scripture that is based off of the risen savior? Hmm... Christ said to watch for signs we all could “see”. Signs that we see with our eyes. Signs we’d know were signs because living on the earth we’d notice a change. I notice a guy said that it's 777 days from the last moon of our tetrads, until the conjunction of Venus and Jupiter after the Revelation 12 sign.  I also can count another 777 days. From the day that Jupiter entered into the body of Virgo, the technical start of the sign itself, until the solar eclipse that i'm calling the "darkened" sun, is also 777 days. Two sets of 777 days.  After Jupiter leaves the body of Virgo, it has a conjunction with Venus on November 13, 2017, at the constellation border line drawn by Eugene Delporte in 1930.  9/28/2015, + 11/13/2017 = 777 days.  Jupiter enters the body of Virgo, from the right side of the screen, on November 20, 2016.  Here is the partial solar eclipse that i call the "darkened" sun. Here the sun is not turned into darkness, just merely "darkened" on the 6th of January.  11/20/2016, + 1/6/2019 = 777 days.  Two sets of 777 days. To do with the Revelation 12 sign, and a "darkened" sun, and the moon will not give her light. |
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Post by venge on Jun 23, 2018 15:05:43 GMT -6
See all that calculation and math in the post above, that is not biblical.
It is borderline heresy.
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Post by mike on Jun 23, 2018 15:25:23 GMT -6
Venge do you not believe that the Lord does things in/with numbers all throughout the bible that have meaning and are highly symbolic? 40 years, 40 days (how many times), 3 of these 3 of those, Holy Trinity...Why would we or perhaps why shouldn't take notice of these patterns and be diligently seeking how they can be applied with what God tells us in Genesis 1 and Job 9, Rev 12 to name a few. These are patterns Dave is applying to stellar conjunctions.
You can disagree but this observation Dave is sharing is in no way near heresy. He does not nor has since we've been on the forum, ever said anything other than Jesus is the only way, Sola Fide.
Amen!
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 23, 2018 16:20:24 GMT -6
Venge do you not believe that the Lord does things in/with numbers all throughout the bible that have meaning and are highly symbolic? 40 years, 40 days (how many times), 3 of these 3 of those, Holy Trinity...Why would we or perhaps why shouldn't take notice of these patterns and be diligently seeking how they can be applied with what God tells us in Genesis 1 and Job 9, Rev 12 to name a few. These are patterns Dave is applying to stellar conjunctions. You can disagree but this observation Dave is sharing is in no way near heresy. He does not nor has since we've been on the forum, ever said anything other than Jesus is the only way, Sola Fide. Amen! Thanks Mike. It can be a bit stressful though. I get worried about it too, i'm not immune to the gravity of the situation. See all that calculation and math in the post above, that is not biblical. It is borderline heresy. And i am sorry about that venge. Are you worried about it? Does any of it look spooky or stressful, like something going on but we don't really know what it is? I know it doesn't say anything in the Bible about seeing 777 days measured in between the sun and in the moon and in the stars, it's just hard to ignore it when you find it. I was just noticing something else that i didn't really realize before about the Sodomite parades. Many of them are this weekend. And in these videos, there's evidence from the Book of Jubilees that the Sodomites were destroyed right at this time of the year, in the fourth month. This Steve Fletcher guy is going to give me a stroke if he doesn't settle down pretty soon. So i understand, nobody likes to be scared or disconcerted. I found it interesting reading the comments on the second video: |
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Post by boraddict on Jun 23, 2018 22:05:40 GMT -6
See all that calculation and math in the post above, that is not biblical. It is borderline heresy. Venge, Lord Jesus had a doubting Thomas and I can not imagine life with out you. You make me smile and are simply beautiful; thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 11:16:54 GMT -6
I'm quite sure that our ancestors (Adam, Noah, you name it) knew a lot more about the mazzaroth and the signs in the heavens than we do today. If we look at Job 38: 31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
In this scripture we see a clear reference to signs and constellations, which people like Job must have been familiar with.
These signs like the famous REV12 sign are nothing to build a new doctrine upon, but in my opinion they serve as a watermark or technically speaking as a checksum. These signs simply verify the veracity of the scripture. They cannot be faked or changed.
(BTW the same thing applies to the ELS thing)
And as fitz hinted at, I also believe with all of my heart that most if not all of biblical prophecy have dual or multiple fulfilments on multiple levels.
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