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Post by davewatchman on Aug 31, 2018 22:34:46 GMT -6
@davewathcman, all I can say to this comment: is that it is still a compilation of man, and equally faulty by that definition. If wikipedia were the Inspiration of the Holy SPirit himself only, then ok... We do know of well-intentioned Christ-followers building the data within wikipedia, yet I rest my case again...man, in this present flesh, is not infallible. I think you guys are too tired. You all need rest, recharge the neurotransmitters. If you can't spell davewathcman, How am i going to spell barbiosheepgril. And about the "Wiki is your friend". I actually just googled it. But it looks not bad to me, i've seen worst. "24 heads of the priestly family. "12 Foundation Stones are named after the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb, and the "12 Gates after the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Seemed to line up with New Jerusalem OK. I don't know if it's right, but whoever wrote it sounded like they knew what they were doing. But i'll throttle back on the "Wiki is your friend, and the "google is your friend thing. Especially if the Lord is at hand. Jesus is your Friend. What a Friend we have in Jesus, All our sins and griefs to bear! What a privilege to carry Everything to God in prayer! O what peace we often forfeit, O what needless pain we bear, All because we do not carry Everything to God in prayer! Have we trials and temptations? Is there trouble anywhere? We should never be discouraged, Take it to the Lord in prayer. Can we find a friend so faithful Who will all our sorrows share? Jesus knows our every weakness, Take it to the Lord in prayer. Are we weak and heavy-laden, Cumbered with a load of care? Precious Savior, still our refuge— Take it to the Lord in prayer; Do thy friends despise, forsake thee? Take it to the Lord in prayer; In His arms He’ll take and shield thee, Thou wilt find a solace there. Peaceful Sabbath.
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Post by davewatchman on Aug 31, 2018 23:02:18 GMT -6
I was trying to find the post where I talked about the "us" vs. "them" dilemma- maybe I posted it on another site. But either way it really doesn't make any difference because Jesus didn't just cleanse us He also cleansed the things in heaven. So if the 24 elders and living creatures say that the Lamb redeemed them and they were the heavenly pattern for the earthly copy, then according to Hebrews they were, along with mankind redeemed. They were made to be part of His kingdom as well and serve within the heavenly holy of holies as priests to Him along with us. Remember all authority was subjected to Christ after His death and resurrection, this includes heavenly authorities. On earth only the high priest could enter the holy of holies, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that those who reside within the heavenly holy place might also be considered to be like high priests with Jesus being the "great High Priest" who they are all subject to. So to me either way- us or them- the heavenly was redeemed by the blood of Christ just as we are. So it really isn't proof that the 24 elders are redeemed men from earth. I don't think i could figure this out by looking at Hebrews. For me the prophetic time periods are a lock fit. But they are hard to understand. I think Daniel 7 was the middle ages. During those 1260 years, the little horn of Daniel 7 had authority. The Bible was locked down, The Gospel was locked down. Three were plucked up by the roots and 1260 years ended in 1798 when the pope was captured and then died in a French prison. The Vatican was closed down, a mortal wound was inflicted. It was then that Jesus was given the scroll. The white horse Rider had a 4735 stéphanos crown awarded to a victor in the ancient athletic games; the crown of victory. Yes, all authority had been given to Jesus in Matthew 28, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. But it couldn't begin to be exercised until the Scripture was fulfilled. The saints of the Foxe Book days had to be given into the little horn's hand for a time, times and half a time. I think it's similar to all the way down in Revelation 11 when Jesus has taken his power and begun to reign. It's like He does have the power, but it's not the time yet to exercise it until the Antichrist's 42 months are over with. “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign.
"The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”
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Post by Gary on Aug 31, 2018 23:08:53 GMT -6
Me, as well. I'm so very, very blessed by all of you (and you, too, dear Sister). You are all dearly beloved. We're on the same side and have the same mission (look for and long for the LORD and share the gospel with as many people as possible until the clock strikes midnight). It's really kind of funny when I stop and think about it all. We're arguing the very, very fine points of Revelation 4 and 5. The timing of the seals for crying out loud! Rofl. But on all the stuff that really counts, we're united. And that's what matters. None of us yet have perfect knowledge, but like you said, iron sharpens iron and we're learning and growing together. I yearn for the day when together we get to see the Lamb who was slain with our own eyes—when our faith becomes sight and all the remaining questions are answered. Until then... Maranatha! Alright... I'm about out of steam on this debate , I think I've shared most of the points I care to make and I think anyone can now peruse through the posts and make up their minds. On this point I'll just say this: it's the second half of v. 9 that tells us where the "us" comes from. This isn't reading between the lines, but just reading what the text plainly says: If the text just ended at "by your blood" then you could interpret it in different ways, but the verse leaves no wiggle room. You've got to take it or leave it. Yes, we can definitely agree on that—that was my point from the beginning. It's "us" in the first verse and "they" in the second. Regarding your second point there, it's because there are two groups singing: the elders and the four living creatures. Since the pronouns are different between the two stanzas of the song, we can conclude one of the two groups sings v. 9 and the other v. 10. This is what is called an antiphony. Ha! A good point you make there, brother. We might be meeting Him in the air, in, like, days y'all! That means we will all be praising Him together and feasting together. You know, when it really comes down to it, you are all more my family than most of my blood-kin. There's something much deeper relationally about one's brother or sister in Christ (probably because we'll be seeing each other for eternity!)
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Post by venge on Sept 1, 2018 9:58:04 GMT -6
I was trying to find the post where I talked about the "us" vs. "them" dilemma- maybe I posted it on another site. But either way it really doesn't make any difference because Jesus didn't just cleanse us He also cleansed the things in heaven. So if the 24 elders and living creatures say that the Lamb redeemed them and they were the heavenly pattern for the earthly copy, then according to Hebrews they were, along with mankind redeemed. They were made to be part of His kingdom as well and serve within the heavenly holy of holies as priests to Him along with us. Remember all authority was subjected to Christ after His death and resurrection, this includes heavenly authorities. On earth only the high priest could enter the holy of holies, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that those who reside within the heavenly holy place might also be considered to be like high priests with Jesus being the "great High Priest" who they are all subject to. So to me either way- us or them- the heavenly was redeemed by the blood of Christ just as we are. So it really isn't proof that the 24 elders are redeemed men from earth. RT, I Agree with your statement regarding the heavenly host redeemed. I had also stated that in my last post. Barbiosheep, I’d like to also ask the same question you proposed. Where is it mentioned in the Bible that the seals are divine heavenly wrath from God? When I had looked weeks ago, the Greek word used to describe it was translated to Tribulation and not God’s wrath which is a different word. To the readers, can someone explain how the seals are God’s wrath? Can you show how the horseman are God’s wrath from previous horseman in the Bible?
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Post by davewatchman on Sept 1, 2018 11:30:53 GMT -6
I’d like to also ask the same question you proposed. Where is it mentioned in the Bible that the seals are divine heavenly wrath from God? When I had looked weeks ago, the Greek word used to describe it was translated to Tribulation and not God’s wrath which is a different word. To the readers, can someone explain how the seals are God’s wrath? Can you show how the horseman are God’s wrath from previous horseman in the Bible? I don't think ALL the seals are God's wrath. The first three are good things. The fifth seal is just a heads up, a warning. But the 4th, 6th and 7th are wrath. And you don't need to find another colored horse from Zachariah to know that. In the 4th seal a lot of people will die, a fourth of the earth. To kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. Sword, Famine, Plague and Wild Beast. In Ezekiel, God calls these: "My four deadly judgments. “For thus says the Lord GOD: How much more when I send upon Jerusalem my four disastrous acts of judgment, sword, famine, wild beasts, and pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast!It says right in the 6th seal:“Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”Now the 7th seal is the trickiest of them all. I think it deserves a long note, but i don't feel like writing one. And i don't think you want to hear it anyway. The chronology of Revelation, or at least where the translators put the chapters in might come into play. The 7th seal is the last seal that seals the Book of Life. The Book of Life is not opened until the end of Revelation 20. "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.This is the wrath of Judgement day that Paul was talking about when he said we are not appointed to wrath. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, And we know this because Paul goes on to talk about being saved from this judgement that is to come: "But to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus ...
Follow the Lamb, Wherever He goes.
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Post by davewatchman on Sept 1, 2018 12:05:14 GMT -6
Rusty pail asked a question in the shoutbox, so I am putting my answer here (rusty pail, you should join the forum officially and join the discussion. ) I put a more condensed answer in the shoutbox rusty pail- I see Luke 21 differently than Matt 24. (I think, there is another thread somewhere that also talks about that) I think Matthew speaks of the end with a foreshadowing of AD 70. I think Luke speaks of AD 70 with a foreshadowing of the end. There are slight differences. Matthew doesn't speak of Jerusalem being surrounded, Luke does. Luke doesn't speak of the AofD, and Matthew speaks of seeing the AofD and the need to flee. I think Luke 21:20-24 is talking about the fall of Jerusalem around 70 AD when the Jews were scattered and the Gentiles then had Israel and Jerusalem. Luke adds "before all this" in verse 12, and I think that carries through verse 24 then 25 picks up with end times things. The distress being the war and conquering taking place and the wrath is against only Israel and not all peoples. vs 23-24 "and wrath against this people. They will be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." I think 1948 signaled the starting of the end of the trampling. Even more so in 1969 with the recapturing of Jerusalem. Israel had rejected their Messiah, but they were given time to repent. God knew that they wouldn't, so sends His wrath to disperse them and make the land of Israel property of the Gentiles...for awhile. That looks good to me. So did your short note in the shout box. I saw it before it disappeared and marked the link to come back to latter. Where i found this a couple years ago was at worthy where a guy just wrote a simple two sentence comment about Luke 21 not being the same thing as Matthew 24. Luke was inside the temple in the morning. Matthew 24 was latter that same day, in the evening, alone with the disciples on the mount of Olives. That's all i need to say, and then the rest becomes evident to the reader. But from here we could probably shift into second, third and the dark aisle fourth gear. And it can seem to go against what has been said for a couple thousand years, so proceed with caution. I tend to talk too long on it because i think there's a lot going on with it.. Like you said, at verse 12: "before all this", Jesus switches back to first century and talks about the destruction of Jerusalem. Then at verse 25: "And there will be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars"' where He switches back to our end times right now. Luke 21 is split into thirds. You can just about measure the three sections with a ruler or vernier caliper. But I wonder why would they do it like that? And why would Luke take our end time AofD and put it in chapter 17. I remember when Jesus said that He was speaking the words that were given to Him by His Father: "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
It was almost as though He sat down inside that temple in the morning and began the material of the Olivet, but then got a tap on the shoulder and was told by the Father not yet, or wait until latter. Because the material of the Olivet, while very similar, was written with a different architecture that i would describe as apocalyptic prophecy. Luke 21, on the other hand, was written in the style of a Day of the Lord prophecy. Five different types of prophecy can be identified in Scripture. And each of these five have their own style sets. 1. Local Prophecy.
This is a prophecy for a specific people, time and place. This is like Jonah traveling to Nineveh to warn the people in that area and of that time. 2. Messianic Prophecy.
The enigmatic descriptions of Messiah that were hidden so that even the disciples could not understand them until they came to pass. 3. Judaic Prophecy.
I'll say these were specific to the Old Children of Israel and were often conditional in nature. "Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever. 4. Day of the Lord Prophecy.
These are often described as near-far prophecies. In a DOTL prophecy, the prophet can start with an ancient DOTL event and then seem to peer down through the millennia to the final DOTL event that would encompass the whole earth and all it's inhabitants. Like how Isaiah 13 begins with Old Babylon DOTL, then shifts down through time into the final end of the world, and then concludes back with Old Babylon. Luke 21 is very similar, it just reverses the sequence. 5. Apocalyptic Prophecy.
This is my favorite. Apocalyptic prophecy is mainly found in the Books of Daniel, Revelation, Matthew 24/25 and Mark 13. The big identifier in this type of prophecy is that it usually has a starting point in time and then follows a strong chronology. So that when the chronological order is broken, a new prophecy often will begin. So look at Matthew 24. I see lots of "ands" and "thens" and so when you see. And then, And then, And he, And they. But the chronology doesn't stop, there's no: "before ALL THIS", like there is in Luke 21. It has what i think are sections of repetition and enlargement, but it stays with the modern end times. Then you will be handed over
And you will be hated by all nations because of me.
At that time many will turn away from the faith
And will betray and hate each other,
And many false prophets
Because of the increase of wickedness
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached
And then the end will come.
“So when you see standing
Then let those who are in Judea flee
Let no one on the housetop go down
Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
For then there will be
And never to be equaled again.
At that time
See, I have told you ahead of time.
For as lightning that comes from the east
“Immediately after the distress of those days
“ ‘the sun will be darkened,
And the moon will not give its light;
And the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
“Then will appear the sign
And then all the peoples
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,
And they will gather his elect
As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near,
“Therefore keep watch,
Matthew 24 is my favorite, is like saying my right leg is my favorite. I still need Luke 21 just as much because it holds the key or the legend. "And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
"And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
--->"but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
Luke 21 was inside the Temple in the morning. Early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him. Surrounded by these people, Jesus was sitting down inside a place called the "women's" court. He had to "look up" to see the poor widow put money in the treasury which was located around the outside perimeter of that court. The treasury consisted of various sized jars for the different sized coins. When the widow made her donation it created a recognizable sound. Likewise when the rich threw in their large denominations it was immediately known by the sound it made. Matthew 24 begins in the evening of that same day while Jesus was LEAVING the temple "and walking away. There's some great pictures of the steps at the corner of that facility which were probably the ones that He walked down. That complex was quite awesome. They were at the start of a 20 to 25 minute walk down the temple mount, across the Kidron Valley and up to the mount called Olivet where He lodged at night. "But at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet. There were no poor widows there. No rich people or crowds of people or pharisees. The geography remains the same today. But this time while leaving the temple and walking away, it was just the disciples that made admiring compliments at the outside of the buildings of the temple complex. Earlier in Luke 21 there were some that were speaking of the temple from it's interior, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings. But when they reached the Olivet it was night. It must have occurred to some of the disciples that Jesus meant something much more serious than just those buildings of the temple complex. "There will not be left HERE one stone upon another. Not an island or mountain remaining in it's place, so that the wicked will eventually march across a broad plain of an earth. These particular disciples were well aware of the old DOTL prophecies that spoke of the earth staggering to and fro like a drunkard, swinging back and forth like a hammock. So when the gravity of this situation must have sunk in, four disciples came to Him in private. Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately. Tell us when will these things be and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world. There were no rich people, no Pharisees and no poor widows and no treasury on the mount of Olives that night. Matthew 24 is written in the architecture of a true apocalyptic prophecy. It never breaks the chronological order. Matthew 24/25 is all for our time, from WW1 and WW2, up until right now. "And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
"And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.
--->"but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.
And with apocalyptic prophecy, we can eventually wander down a corridor of the matrix that we would rather not travel. These next two images show what would have been the stairs of the temple that Jesus took when He was leaving the temple and walking away. A Sabbath day's journey to the mount called Olivet. But scroll down this link and check out the images if you wish. Many show the walls that were built as part of the Suleiman decree of 1535. But the author of the photos will annotate the numerous images of the original Herodian structure that still stands today. And remember, Jesus said: "See you not all these things? truly I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone on another, that shall not be thrown down.
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Post by venge on Sept 1, 2018 13:17:04 GMT -6
I’d like to also ask the same question you proposed. Where is it mentioned in the Bible that the seals are divine heavenly wrath from God? When I had looked weeks ago, the Greek word used to describe it was translated to Tribulation and not God’s wrath which is a different word. To the readers, can someone explain how the seals are God’s wrath? Can you show how the horseman are God’s wrath from previous horseman in the Bible? I don't think ALL the seals are God's wrath. The first three are good things. The fifth seal is just a heads up, a warning. But the 4th, 6th and 7th are wrath. And you don't need to find another colored horse from Zachariah to know that. In the 4th seal a lot of people will die, a fourth of the earth. To kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. Sword, Famine, Plague and Wild Beast. In Ezekiel, God calls these: "My four deadly judgments. “For thus says the Lord GOD: How much more when I send upon Jerusalem my four disastrous acts of judgment, sword, famine, wild beasts, and pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast!It says right in the 6th seal:“Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”Now the 7th seal is the trickiest of them all. I think it deserves a long note, but i don't feel like writing one. And i don't think you want to hear it anyway. The chronology of Revelation, or at least where the translators put the chapters in might come into play. The 7th seal is the last seal that seals the Book of Life. The Book of Life is not opened until the end of Revelation 20. "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.This is the wrath of Judgement day that Paul was talking about when he said we are not appointed to wrath. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, And we know this because Paul goes on to talk about being saved from this judgement that is to come: "But to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus ...
Follow the Lamb, Wherever He goes. Let's talk about it then. You had said, If the 4rth seal is wrath, why is the koine Greek word "shephet" used only for judgments and not wrath? In the Greek, the word for God's wrath is "orgé" which is defined as anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance. This is seen for example in Rev 6:17. Or we can look to the word "thumos" which is used in Rev 15:1. That being used is describing an outburst of passion, wrath. Neither of these two words is used here. As a matter of fact, judgments have never been wrath but they have been for correction. 1 Peter 4:17 says, The end to them that do not obey is God's wrath. Here, judgments are different. The 4 judgments of God were not wrath of God as the trumpets and Bowls show. Look at what Gill says in his commentary: In Ezekiel's case, to which you referred, it is Nebuchadnezzar's armies that are the judgments through God with exception of the wild beasts. He uses them for His purpose. To your comment of the 6th seal, which you stated: As I had said previously, the word for wrath here is not the same word for judgments in the Greek. Lets look at the translations. The great day of their wrath (the wicked on the earth) has finally come. It hadn't come YET but now has come after the 6th seal was opened. This statement draws attention to the fact the sentence could not have been made prior to the 6th seal but only after the seal was opened and completed because the effect of the 6th calls for alarm. Therefore, the 6th seal could not be wrath if it is past tense. If for instance, you saw the moon darkened and the sun darkened.....would those events cause alarm or cause death? The effect of the event would cause alarm because of what will happen next. It is this statement of "what comes next" that causes the identity of one to say for the great day of their wrath has come! It had not come prior. It cannot come when the 6th seal opens nor could it have come from previous seals. It is what comes AFTER the 6th seal that is the incoming wrath. Next you said, Where does scripture say the 7th seal seals the book of life? I am sorry, but I cannot agree to that. The 7th seal is specific in that in it, prayers go up to God (most likely from the 5th seal martyrs) and fire from the alter was cast unto the earth. In relation to the fire upon the earth, the O.T. shows each time this was done (Exodus, Leviticus, Ezekiel) its was starting a plague on mankind. Lastly you ended with: Not arguing with you here but I don't understand how the 7th seal is wrath.....As a matter of fact, in verse 6 after the 7th seal is opened we see this in Rev 8: The angels are used in God's oncoming wrath. But they were not aloud to sound previously. Therefore, it was not wrath till the 1st trumpet sounded. But if we go back to Rev 7 we see the angels were prevented from starting God's wrath till certain things were met. An angel with the seal of the living God says DO NOT HURT such and such.... till we have done such and such.....then....the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. That does not happen till after the 7th seal is open. The opening of the 1st trumpet follows the command to let the wind blow making the 1st Trumpet the beginning of wrath. The Ogre or Thumos in Greek.
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Post by davewatchman on Sept 1, 2018 16:58:28 GMT -6
The great day of their wrath (the wicked on the earth) has finally come. It hadn't come YET but now has come after the 6th seal was opened. This statement draws attention to the fact the sentence could not have been made prior to the 6th seal but only after the seal was opened and completed because the effect of the 6th calls for alarm. Therefore, the 6th seal could not be wrath if it is past tense. If for instance, you saw the moon darkened and the sun darkened.....would those events cause alarm or cause death? The effect of the event would cause alarm because of what will happen next. It is this statement of "what comes next" that causes the identity of one to say for the great day of their wrath has come! It had not come prior. It cannot come when the 6th seal opens nor could it have come from previous seals. It is what comes AFTER the 6th seal that is the incoming wrath. There's more to God's wrath than just causing alarm or death. Will the people know when they have been abandoned by God and have been given a strong delusion? It's the same as a death sentence. Those people are sealed for destruction having been abandoned by God. Like Sampson, they do not even know that the Lord has departed from them.. God's wrath still comes prior to the 6th seal because God has different kinds of wrath. I believe we are in that wrath right now. John MacArthur calls it the wrath of abandonment. God gave them over, God gave them over, God gave them over. God gave them over to what? To a reprobate mind. God sends them a strong delusion. Why? So that they will believe the lie and do that which is not convenient. The majority have delighted in wickedness and so cannot hear the composite beast as it opens it's mouth to blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. I remember talking to you about God's wrath before. It's a spooky subject for sure. God is going to destroy the destroyers of the earth. But if you are willing to accept it, John the Baptist came as Elijah. "And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
But not everyone is willing to accept it because it's hard a understanding. If the people that Jesus was talking to were willing to accept it, then it meant that John failed in his mission. So if John was the Elijah and he failed to turn the hearts of the sons to the fathers, the land would be struck with a decree of utter destruction. "He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction."
Check out this quote i lifted from the shout box: "I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.
If the vials are the seven LAST plagues, would that not have the implication that the seven trumpets are the seven FIRST plagues? It even says that the wrath of God will be complete with the pouring of them. Then if the first trumpet is literal and fire actually destroys a third of the earth, could the dots be connected that this (might) be choreographed with the timing of the 4th seal. I know it's not a happy time story but the seals and the trumpets are bound to connect with one another at some point. I tend to think that the 4th and 5th seal happen within the great tribulation and the 6th seal is the end of it and simultaneous with the 7th trumpet. All of God's people should be safe in the air by the time that the seven vials are poured. I try not to worry about it until it happens. The long weekend weather is awesome where i live. Peaceful Rest of the Sabbath.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 1, 2018 19:10:25 GMT -6
I am acting as a moderator here now...
the past couple of posts are off topic from the original title. Why does this matter? because now it is becomgin an indepth study of the Seals. I would suggest that the conversation be moved to such a topic for the sake of archiving. Someone will say, were was that cool dialog between venge and watchmandave about the Seals, and Wrath, and one will say, check out the scene in the Throne room as it became that as they moved out of Rev 5... a litte light of humor on my part..
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Post by venge on Sept 2, 2018 5:30:58 GMT -6
But Barbie,
Because Christ was seated as a slain lamb and the 24 elders fell down to worship, He was able to receive power thus worthy to open the seals to which we spoke of. Therefore, it is relevant! 😘
For the seals need to be opened in order for for his reign because the 24 elders did say that Christ death causes them to be priests and kings and they will reign on the earth. So you see....the link is great. 😂
Besides, the seals could have been placed in Rev 5 but the pages only fit so many words per section.
Edit: I posted this 5 hrs ago, guess your not buying it. Hope you all are having a good day on the Lord’s day today
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Post by yardstick on Sept 2, 2018 18:03:23 GMT -6
But Barbie, Because Christ was seated as a slain lamb and the 24 elders fell down to worship, He was able to receive power thus worthy to open the seals to which we spoke of. Therefore, it is relevant! 😘 For the seals need to be opened in order for for his reign because the 24 elders did say that Christ death causes them to be priests and kings and they will reign on the earth. So you see....the link is great. 😂 Besides, the seals could have been placed in Rev 5 but the pages only fit so many words per section. Edit: I posted this 5 hrs ago, guess your not buying it. Hope you all are having a good day on the Lord’s day today Without intending to split hairs here, I have to ask: Didn't he already have the Power? Or were you referring to Authority? I can see how Christ would not have taken on the mantle of Authority until he was 'found' to be worthy and stepped forward to claim what was rightfully his. Wasn't he found to be worthy much much earlier? Say, shortly after the crucifixion and resurrection? Or possibly at the time of his baptism? Weren't the Elders falling down to worship as a result of Christ stepping forward and being 'found' (in the sense of confirmed) worthy?
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Post by venge on Sept 2, 2018 18:29:13 GMT -6
But Barbie, Because Christ was seated as a slain lamb and the 24 elders fell down to worship, He was able to receive power thus worthy to open the seals to which we spoke of. Therefore, it is relevant! 😘 For the seals need to be opened in order for for his reign because the 24 elders did say that Christ death causes them to be priests and kings and they will reign on the earth. So you see....the link is great. 😂 Besides, the seals could have been placed in Rev 5 but the pages only fit so many words per section. Edit: I posted this 5 hrs ago, guess your not buying it. Hope you all are having a good day on the Lord’s day today Without intending to split hairs here, I have to ask: Didn't he already have the Power? Or were you referring to Authority? I can see how Christ would not have taken on the mantle of Authority until he was 'found' to be worthy and stepped forward to claim what was rightfully his. Wasn't he found to be worthy much much earlier? Say, shortly after the crucifixion and resurrection? Or possibly at the time of his baptism? Weren't the Elders falling down to worship as a result of Christ stepping forward and being 'found' (in the sense of confirmed) worthy? I was being sarcastic! The entire post was made to be a joke on Barbie. You ruined it. I demote you from yardstick to 10 inch ruler.
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Post by yardstick on Sept 3, 2018 1:23:36 GMT -6
Without intending to split hairs here, I have to ask: Didn't he already have the Power? Or were you referring to Authority? I can see how Christ would not have taken on the mantle of Authority until he was 'found' to be worthy and stepped forward to claim what was rightfully his. Wasn't he found to be worthy much much earlier? Say, shortly after the crucifixion and resurrection? Or possibly at the time of his baptism? Weren't the Elders falling down to worship as a result of Christ stepping forward and being 'found' (in the sense of confirmed) worthy? I was being sarcastic! The entire post was made to be a joke on Barbie. You ruined it. I demote you from yardstick to 10 inch ruler. neener neener?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 3:38:32 GMT -6
I was being sarcastic! The entire post was made to be a joke on Barbie. You ruined it. I demote you from yardstick to 10 inch ruler. neener neener?
Guys, you made my day.....
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 3, 2018 7:30:53 GMT -6
yeah, it went right over my head venge... got caught up in the dialogs of you and watchman.. thanks for attempting to splash me with a glass of water and get me out of my funk
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