|
|
Post by mike on Sept 22, 2017 17:35:28 GMT -6
sorrynotsorry soon is relative isn't it? If God has no beginning and no end, a couple thousand years is soon. If Jesus told His followers when he'd be back, what hope would any have? Said better if He said I'll return in 2017 why would anyone have hope of His return in the years between?
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Sept 22, 2017 17:37:24 GMT -6
@sam think about how Daniel felt when Gabriel told him 490 years until the Messiah shows up! Wow he knew he wouldn't live that long, yet served Him his whole life.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 17:40:59 GMT -6
Ha ha, that's right! And to think I have to force myself to not start eating until every else sits down at the table....patience, sam, patience!
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Sept 22, 2017 17:46:01 GMT -6
Yeah and although I like to think pre-trib I still have that "maybe it's not" thought from time to time.
I mean there certainly is a lot of evidence pointing to this year meaning something. All the anniversaries, signs etc. Something is happening.
When I was first saved I said "the rapture only happens once, then it's all over, not like football season"
|
|
|
|
Post by evenso on Sept 22, 2017 18:42:57 GMT -6
sam, I've been watching for and anticipating Christ's return (much) longer than you've been alive! Have I been disappointed when my anticipated date came and went and I was still here? You bet! Did it shake my faith? No, because God has never lied. He promised that Jesus would come get us one day and because my finite mind can't comprehend His plan, I've had to just rest in trusting what He has promised.
That said, in my entire life I have never seen the convergence of events that are present today. Seriously, never! And amazingly, with the pile on of events that seem to be added to daily, almost every one is one of the specific things Jesus predicted as the end of the age.
Hang in there! Because God is faithful and trustworthy, He will do exactly what He promised. Soon! ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Sept 22, 2017 18:49:56 GMT -6
@sam is not doubting evenso, he was replying to the prior page. His view on the rapture is just at a different time (pre wrath?). |
|
|
|
Post by evenso on Sept 22, 2017 19:05:39 GMT -6
@sam is not doubting evenso , he was replying to the prior page. His view on the rapture is just at a different time (pre wrath?). sam, please forgive me! I meant to address sorry. |
|
|
|
Post by thetimeoftheend on Sept 22, 2017 19:08:19 GMT -6
Chiming in with my 2 cents.... there is a 0% percent chance of rapture on the 23rd. In fact, it's already the 23rd in some places. What I'm curious to ask you, and what I asked my husband who is what you would call a watcher....is there any time in the future where you admit you were totally wrong? Obviously it wouldn't be until FoT '18 for most watchers, but what about 7 years from now? 10 years from now? Is there any point where you would be willing to question your beliefs? I know the Christian answer is "no" but is there ANY point would you be willing to say the rapture/trib/second coming is not so soon after all? My husband says if the tribulation hasn't clearly started by 2028 he'll admit he was just totally wrong. And I said if the tribulation does start I'll be happy to admit I was wrong and I'll be the poor fool that is stuck here for the 7 years It seems as if you take umbrage with others watching. We are following our Lord's command. Additionally, whether or not someone believes in the neatness of the end times does not affect whether or not they are taken in the rapture, so your comment about being stuck here for the seven years strikes me as odd, unless you are an unbeliever. |
|
found
New Member
Saved by Grace, walk by Faith, Spouse is a spirit filled Christian, who is waiting for His return.
Posts: 13 
|
Post by found on Sept 22, 2017 19:36:27 GMT -6
sam, I've been watching for and anticipating Christ's return (much) longer than you've been alive! Have I been disappointed when my anticipated date came and went and I was still here? You bet! Did it shake my faith? No, because God has never lied. He promised that Jesus would come get us one day and because my finite mind can't comprehend His plan, I've had to just rest in trusting what He has promised. That said, in my entire life I have never seen the convergence of events that are present today. Seriously, never! And amazingly, with the pile on of events that seem to be added to daily, almost every one is one of the specific things Jesus predicted as the end of the age. Hang in there! Because God is faithful and trustworthy, He will do exactly what He promised. Soon! ;-)[ Exactly .. yes, we trust in the Lord's word, in his guidance by the Holy Spirit not in anything else. We could misunderstand anything but God never mis-s communicates Yes,see you in the air Maranatha |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 21:06:17 GMT -6
@sam is not doubting evenso , he was replying to the prior page. His view on the rapture is just at a different time (pre wrath?). sam, please forgive me! I meant to address sorry. No sweat evenso, I knew your post was not directed to me, Shalom! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 21:14:23 GMT -6
The question sorry is asking is not a bad question.....it may make some uncomfortable, but it is a legitimate honest one......one answer as I see it is that believers should be ready and alert at all times, entertain all possibilities as just that, and to study and try to know what is a likely indicator of the 70th week, since specific day counts spin off of that which we should be able to answer for. Some may feel strongly about certain dates based on this or that, and that is ok....as long as we understand it is a prospective test, not a definitive statement, and from my interaction with Gary, Greg, and Jeff, it has not been cast as definitive so much as a good possibility. So we watch, learn, reevaluate, reexamine, and keep on keeping on....knowing that the 70th week and rapture will come someday!
|
|
|
|
Post by sawdy on Sept 22, 2017 21:28:09 GMT -6
The question sorry is asking is not a bad question.....it may make some uncomfortable, but it is a legitimate honest one......one answer as I see it is that believers should be ready and alert at all times, entertain all possibilities as just that, and to study and try to know what is a likely indicator of the 70th week, since specific day counts spin off of that which we should be able to answer for. Some may feel strongly about certain dates based on this or that, and that is ok....as long as we understand it is a prospective test, not a definitive statement, and from my interaction with Gary, Greg, and Jeff, it has not been cast as definitive so much as a good possibility. So we watch, learn, reevaluate, reexamine, and keep on keeping on....knowing that the 70th week and rapture will come someday! There are many different viewpoints. You can download a free copy of a Pre-Wrath viewpoint book at: thecomingepiphany.com/page5.htmlAfter first coming across the pre-wrath viewpoint in my studies, I was very dismayed and prayed a lot about what was to come. Eventually, God directed me to Unsealed where I have been learning a lot more. As I have said before, I am personally partial to a 9/30 date because I think it would be super awesome to have my "birthday" on my birthday. No need to set off fireworks in the backyard then! Lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 21:34:56 GMT -6
Nice comment Sawdy! There are good cases that can be made for the pre-trib and pre-wrath points of view....and I don't claim to know for sure! I lean pre-wrath having come out of a pre-trib background, while Gary is the opposite, having arrived pre-trib out of pre-wrath! I don't focus on the timing of the rapture in my teaching as it can be quite divisive.....this is why I have focused on the 70th week and its internal structure, so that no matter what one's rapture position is, we as believers have a chance for unity on the 70th week itself, hopefully!
|
|
|
|
Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 22, 2017 23:30:33 GMT -6
Chiming in with my 2 cents.... there is a 0% percent chance of rapture on the 23rd. In fact, it's already the 23rd in some places. What I'm curious to ask you, and what I asked my husband who is what you would call a watcher....is there any time in the future where you admit you were totally wrong? Obviously it wouldn't be until FoT '18 for most watchers, but what about 7 years from now? 10 years from now? Is there any point where you would be willing to question your beliefs? I know the Christian answer is "no" but is there ANY point would you be willing to say the rapture/trib/second coming is not so soon after all? My husband says if the tribulation hasn't clearly started by 2028 he'll admit he was just totally wrong. And I said if the tribulation does start I'll be happy to admit I was wrong and I'll be the poor fool that is stuck here for the 7 years The sign occurring in the sky comes together at a particular moment and from Israel's perspective, it is on Sept 23 when the earliest possible moment of that sign occurs. That is where the date Sept 23 comes from. Whether it is Sept 23 in other parts of the world first doesn't matter because it is not the date that matters, it is the sign. The sign stays together through certain morning hours of the 24th from Israel's perspective. "...there is a 0% percent chance of rapture on the 23rd." REALLY? Can you see the future? You know for a fact it won't happen? Just as it is not safe to draw a hard line and say, "THE RAPTURE WILL OCCUR ON SEPTEMBER 23, 2017!" It is not safe to draw a hard line and say it won't. Do you know God's heart and mind that well? Yes, people have been watching for Jesus' return every since He ascended into the clouds. WHY??? Because: Revelation 3:11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! And the apostles regularly wrote that they were living "in the last days," meaning they (who walked with Jesus) expected Him to return in their lifetime. That is "the blessed hope" that He will return in our lifetime and it spurs us on to work like time is short and to keep watch like Jesus told us to. If we stop watching... we are DISOBEYING the words of our Lord. If you are not watching, He will "come upon you like a thief." (1 Thes 5:2-4; Rev 3:3; Rev 16:15) So it comes down to believing God's word and paying attention to what's going on. Like I said earlier, people ever since the apostles believed Jesus would/could come back in their lifetime. But this wasn't actually true, because Israel wasn't back in their land. As soon as Israel came back into their land, all of the sudden people really began to understand prophecy and understand that God had written all about this previously. They just had not understood it. So yes, there is a chance that there is something just like that that we are missing too. Something that God hasn't revealed to us quite yet because time isn't ripe. Maybe it's that elusive Great Red Dragon that's standing before the woman. Or maybe there is nothing. Maybe the rapture will occur in the next 24 hours or so or maybe next week or maybe next year, though I also personally doubt He will tarry that long in our current global climate. Just because people have been expecting Jesus for so long doesn't mean they were experiencing the convergences we are now. If Jesus told us what to watch for and we see them but say, "nah these things have been going on forever. This is nothing new," what exactly would it take to see the things Jesus said to watch for. How many wars, famines, earthquakes, signs in sun, moon, stars does it take exactly??? I know I don't ever want to be one of these people: 2 Peter 3:3-4 "...knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”" One day He will come and I'm going to be watching until He comes or until I die, whichever comes first! Because I want to be found faithful. |
|
|
|
Post by sawdy on Sept 23, 2017 3:29:47 GMT -6
One day He will come and I'm going to be watching until He comes or until I die, whichever comes first! Because I want to be found faithful. I loved your entire comment, but this was the nugget at the end that I honed in on. Amen! From reading the "How has the sign changed you" thread, God has called a lot of us to wake up. We had fallen asleep on our watch and were not heeding his commands. We are now alert and watching. The night seems darkest before the dawn. As I write this, I am once again, awoken from my slumber for a night watch. It is 3:15 am where I am. I used to work nights at one point in my life, and since then my sleep schedule has been disrupted. To me the 23rd is like hearing a rustling outside your camp. It is dark and your watching but can't see what made the sound. Do you forget that the sound was made and drift off to sleep? No. You become ever more so vigilant in watching, until your watch has ended. You may be relieved by another body before the sun rises, but at some point, we know that the sun will rise. Where I live the sun can rise before 5 am or around 8 am. In the arctic it is dark in the winter, but in the summer the sun will never set. We all know the sun is going to rise but we are unsure of the exact time dawn will occur. That is why we have signs to watch for, so that we can least know what season we are in and when we can expect the dawn. |
|
