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Post by yardstick on Sept 18, 2017 11:17:31 GMT -6
1/7 probability it occurs on a specific day of the week 1/16 probability it occurs on a day left in september 1/12 probability it occurs in september 1/90 probability it occurs on a given day left this year 1/5993 probability it occurs prior to the millenium 1/7 x 1/16 x 1/12 x 1/90 x 1/5993 = 1.38 x 10 -9 it will occur tomorrow. that' s 1 in 724,913,280 but I could be off a little. Way off, yardstick! :-P It's much easier. If we assume the Lord comes within ten years, then this would be 3758 candidate days until the end of 2027, giving us a chance of 1 in 3758 if all days are made equal. Or 1 in 358000 if you only assume he comes before the year 3000. *watches balloon deflate* |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 20:55:25 GMT -6
Please note I am not saying this to argue or debate – I simply want to understand the logic some of you have when you claim there is a Mid-Trib, Pre_wrath, Post_trib rapture. Here is my reasoning for the Pre-Trib version. Israel rejected Jesus Christ as being the Messiah – when I speak of Israel, of course I am speaking of the Leaders / people in Power. My understanding was the Jesus was ready and willing to implement the Kingdom of God – right then and there. However, He was rejected. We learn through Paul; that a partial harden of hearts of the Israel people was – so the gentile people (ie. All NON-Israel) would receive the benefits (become Children of God). These Benefits (Status?) was primarily to provoke the Israel people to be jealous and return to God. This plan B (or Age of Grace) which we are operating in right now – is for the 2nd class citizens (the gentiles) – the NON-Israel folk to be graphed into the family – WE ARE ADOPTED citizens – we were provided a way – outside the normal. At some point in the future – this PLAN B (this second chance) will be going away – when it does the people of Israel will be back in primary focus – and any reconciliation with God will only occur through the graces of the Israel people (meaning going through them). A seven year period of time is coming. It goes by a wide range of Names – Jacob’s trouble, Daniel’s 70th Week and yes even the Tribulation “week”. During this time period (the seven years) God will be dealing primarily with Israel – all NON-Israel people go back to second class citizens. THIS SEVEN YEAR period is NOT for the gentiles – it never has been – it appears the sole purpose of the seven year program – is the RESTORE Israel. We learn in Micah 5: (NET Bible) 3 So the LORD will hand the people of Israel over to their enemies
until the time when the woman in labor gives birth.
Then the rest of the king’s countrymen will return
to be reunited with the people of Israel.Other translations of Micah – call it abandonment or the people of Israel will be abandoned UNTIL….. The primary point being made here is --- THE SEVEN YEARS is not for the Gentile people – IT IS FOR Israel…… One of Paul’s mysterious – which has come to be known as the rapture – actually explains the “HOW” the division of time will come about – the Body of Christ will be removed – BEFORE the start of the seven years. Hi kjs, thanks for the comment....I have committed to not debating pre-wrath on this blog, and I will keep that commitment....unity of believers in the eyes of the world is way more important than my pipsqueak opinion. However, if you are truly interested in an opposing view, I recommend the following books, all available online: "Rapture: Case Closed?" Nelson Walters "Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord " Alan Kurschner "Prewrath Rapture of the Church" Marvin Rosenthal If you have a desire to dialog, feel free to email me, as I will not debate or discuss on this site beyond these resources.... Shalom! |
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Post by rt on Sept 18, 2017 21:47:30 GMT -6
What is the chance of being called up on the 9/23/2017? When and what is the next big event if the rapture does not take place on the 9/23/2017? The chances fall to zero on 9/24/2017.. The next big event- will be the rapture, whenever it does happen. |
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Post by anonymouse on Sept 19, 2017 6:06:57 GMT -6
What is the chance of being called up on the 9/23/2017? When and what is the next big event if the rapture does not take place on the 9/23/2017? The chances fall to zero on 9/24/2017.. The next big event- will be the rapture, whenever it does happen. Could you back that up with scripture for me? |
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Post by mike on Sept 19, 2017 6:18:32 GMT -6
anonymouse basic back up is that the Lord fulfills on feast days. The 4 fall feasts were fulfilled by Him on the exact day. Sept 21-22 is the Feast of Trumpets, possibly extending to the 23rd depending on what the moon looks like in a few days. I believe rt has a different take on the feast coinciding with the rapture, but there are many that feel it will be fulfilled with the FoT. The rest of the details are scattered throughout the site. I suggest you do a brief search EDIT - see this link for some info on the FoT - unsealed.boards.net/thread/831/fot-rapture-question?page=1&scrollTo=11138
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Post by anonymouse on Sept 19, 2017 6:29:08 GMT -6
anonymouse basic back up is that the Lord fulfills on feast days. The 4 fall feasts were fulfilled by Him on the exact day. Sept 21-22 is the Feast of Trumpets, possibly extending to the 23rd depending on what the moon looks like in a few days. I believe rt has a different take on the feast coinciding with the rapture, but there are many that feel it will be fulfilled with the FoT. The rest of the details are scattered throughout the site. I suggest you do a brief search EDIT - see this link for some info on the FoT - unsealed.boards.net/thread/831/fot-rapture-question?page=1&scrollTo=11138 Thanks for the info mike! |
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Post by rt on Sept 19, 2017 7:11:16 GMT -6
The chances fall to zero on 9/24/2017.. The next big event- will be the rapture, whenever it does happen. Could you back that up with scripture for me? Hi anonymouse, and welcome to the board! I was really speaking tongue and cheek  , I guess that doesn't come across so well in a post. But in all seriousness I don't really know what the chances are, we are about to find out right? Prophetically speaking I do believe that the next big event will be the rapture. However that doesn't mean that other events won't precede it, like perhaps economic upheaval, war, natural disasters, but those kinds of events have been happening throughout history. I do believe that the rapture is imminent and is the next big prophetic event to be fulfilled. You can see my thread here for scriptural support about why I believe this is the case: unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture |
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Post by anonymouse on Sept 19, 2017 10:03:24 GMT -6
Could you back that up with scripture for me? Hi anonymouse, and welcome to the board! I was really speaking tongue and cheek , I guess that doesn't come across so well in a post. But in all seriousness I don't really know what the chances are, we are about to find out right? Prophetically speaking I do believe that the next big event will be the rapture. However that doesn't mean that other events won't precede it, like perhaps economic upheaval, war, natural disasters, but those kinds of events have been happening throughout history. I do believe that the rapture is imminent and is the next big prophetic event to be fulfilled. You can see my thread here for scriptural support about why I believe this is the case: unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-raptureI read your link. You wrote that the resurrection happens before the rapture correct? Are we going to be seeing people literally raised from the dead? only believers resurrected? |
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Post by rt on Sept 19, 2017 20:53:04 GMT -6
Hi anonymouse, and welcome to the board! I was really speaking tongue and cheek , I guess that doesn't come across so well in a post. But in all seriousness I don't really know what the chances are, we are about to find out right? Prophetically speaking I do believe that the next big event will be the rapture. However that doesn't mean that other events won't precede it, like perhaps economic upheaval, war, natural disasters, but those kinds of events have been happening throughout history. I do believe that the rapture is imminent and is the next big prophetic event to be fulfilled. You can see my thread here for scriptural support about why I believe this is the case: unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-raptureI read your link. You wrote that the resurrection happens before the rapture correct? Are we going to be seeing people literally raised from the dead? only believers resurrected? I am not sure what it will "look" like when it happens, but I think people will see something. I also think that the resurrection and the rapture will happen very close together, scripture tells us that the dead in Christ are raised first, and then those who are alive and remain will be caught up. How much time is between these two events? I do not know, maybe just a blink of the eye?? |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 20, 2017 4:45:58 GMT -6
1/7 probability it occurs on a specific day of the week 1/16 probability it occurs on a day left in september 1/12 probability it occurs in september 1/90 probability it occurs on a given day left this year 1/5993 probability it occurs prior to the millenium 1/7 x 1/16 x 1/12 x 1/90 x 1/5993 = 1.38 x 10 -9 it will occur tomorrow. that' s 1 in 724,913,280 but I could be off a little. Way off, yardstick! :-P It's much easier. If we assume the Lord comes within ten years, then this would be 3758 candidate days until the end of 2027, giving us a chance of 1 in 3758 if all days are made equal. Or 1 in 358000 if you only assume he comes before the year 3000. Hey, guys, I realize that this is a fun thread, and I'm loving it. Yardstick, I know you are the statistics guru, but just so we're all tracking. The above cited stats 1/7, means 1 out of 7 chances it occurs on a specific day of the week, b/c 7 days. 1/16 chance that it occurs on a day left in Sept - b/c you posted on the 15th, and there were 16 days left in Sept. (inclusive counting - heheh) These numbers would only work if there were no appointed days, and if there were 'signs' - in other words, if every day in a month, had equal chance of being the rapture. ?? ;-) So this would correspond to the Imminent Surprise Rapture view. - It could land on Day or Atonement, but the rapture could also be on Halloween or Friday 13th. Amiright. ?? Conversely, For those who believe the Feasts are a Shadow - point to things to come and that Christ fulfills the Feasts perfectly and in perfect order, the odds of a rapture 3 days after Feast of Trumpets 0%. unless the whole Jewish Calendar has slipped 2 days. ;-) I still hold firmly to the view, that we all see through a glass dimly, and that we are all watchmen, with some of the pieces, but not all of them. When we get to heaven, and it's all clear, we'll be at the marriage supper, will someone still have views that dogs really are better than cats. ?? Maranatha.
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Post by cgtech on Sept 20, 2017 18:56:09 GMT -6
Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say I believe the chances are >90%. Why? All the date convergences you all know of, the very *fact* of the Rev 12 sign itself, and that it will never be repeated... plus ... the fact that from the last Blood Moon in 2015, counting to Sept 23 2017, comes to 726 days.. you likely know this already ,but open Strongs, look at the word with that number ... Harpazo... can it be any clearer? been watching many years, starting back with Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. Have never, I repeat *never* seen it like this!
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Post by yardstick on Sept 22, 2017 15:43:01 GMT -6
Way off, yardstick! :-P It's much easier. If we assume the Lord comes within ten years, then this would be 3758 candidate days until the end of 2027, giving us a chance of 1 in 3758 if all days are made equal. Or 1 in 358000 if you only assume he comes before the year 3000. Hey, guys, I realize that this is a fun thread, and I'm loving it. Yardstick, I know you are the statistics guru, but just so we're all tracking. The above cited stats 1/7, means 1 out of 7 chances it occurs on a specific day of the week, b/c 7 days. 1/16 chance that it occurs on a day left in Sept - b/c you posted on the 15th, and there were 16 days left in Sept. (inclusive counting - heheh) These numbers would only work if there were no appointed days, and if there were 'signs' - in other words, if every day in a month, had equal chance of being the rapture. ?? ;-) So this would correspond to the Imminent Surprise Rapture view. - It could land on Day or Atonement, but the rapture could also be on Halloween or Friday 13th. Amiright. ?? Conversely, For those who believe the Feasts are a Shadow - point to things to come and that Christ fulfills the Feasts perfectly and in perfect order, the odds of a rapture 3 days after Feast of Trumpets 0%. unless the whole Jewish Calendar has slipped 2 days. ;-) I still hold firmly to the view, that we all see through a glass dimly, and that we are all watchmen, with some of the pieces, but not all of them. When we get to heaven, and it's all clear, we'll be at the marriage supper, will someone still have views that dogs really are better than cats. ?? Maranatha.
My reply was a little tongue-in-cheek... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 17:21:29 GMT -6
Forgive me sorry, but it really isn't clear to me what you are asking here.....I don't believe that our idea of the rapture is a monolithic entity....there are many of other rapture persuasions. For instance, I lean pre-wrath, and the earliest I would expect the rapture would be 6 years from now......I expect that those who are pre-trib will maintain their belief even if the rapture does not come to pass this fall....it only means it didn't necessarily line up with the proposed celestial signs this fall....the absence of a rapture at this moment does not invalidate its occurrence at a future date.
I have purposely focused on the start of the 70th week as a time marker...it may or may not occur with the celestial events of this fall...and if it doesn't, I would still watch for a covenant to divide the Land regardless, and would still hold to a pre-wrath viewpoint. In other words, whether the celestial signs can be connected to world events or not is a prospective test, not a definitive statement or conclusion.
Again, I am not sure exactly what you are looking for with your question, given the wide range of views on this site, and the fact that Gary, Jeff, and Greg have never mandated that the rapture is definitely happening this fall
Shalom!
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Post by mike on Sept 22, 2017 17:31:00 GMT -6
Chiming in with my 2 cents.... there is a 0% percent chance of rapture on the 23rd. In fact, it's already the 23rd in some places. What I'm curious to ask you, and what I asked my husband who is what you would call a watcher....is there any time in the future where you admit you were totally wrong? Obviously it wouldn't be until FoT '18 for most watchers, but what about 7 years from now? 10 years from now? Is there any point where you would be willing to question your beliefs? I know the Christian answer is "no" but is there ANY point would you be willing to say the rapture/trib/second coming is not so soon after all? My husband says if the tribulation hasn't clearly started by 2028 he'll admit he was just totally wrong. And I said if the tribulation does start I'll be happy to admit I was wrong and I'll be the poor fool that is stuck here for the 7 years So you are a doubting Thomas? I digress...you sound as if you don't believe, Thomas believed but ... Anyway it sounds like you are atheist? You are likely correct in that this won't happen the 23rd. We had hoped it would. I mean what believer wouldn't want to have their body redeemed from this world that is falling apart at quite a rapid pace? You are likely correct that most would not say they totally give up in the Saviour. Although I suppose it's possible some may, hopefully not. I can only answer for me however. Why? Why we any of us continue to follow the way of a God who hasn't returned yet? Many reasons, mostly because we know He is real. Many reasons that are experiential. I'll offer my simplest answer explained to me by my 12 yr old daughter. She just started middle school and they now teach evolution. I get it...not everyone believes we were created, some believe we came from a giant explosion, where one day there was a pile of nothing that exploded in to everything. Science? Then from that random explosion of nothing over umpteen billion years suddenly stuff came alive, one micro cell at a time. Then those teeny tiny little primitive nothing cells decided to merge into some aomeba (sp?) type of thing and so on...she (my daughter) said "that's ridiculous, I didn't grow out of slime" She also asks "dad if there was a single little atom or whatever, where'd that come from". She asks the next question of where did that come from each time. Every time she arrives at "someone made it that way" Now mind you she has not been preached to, brought to church or forced to listen to anything yet came up with that on her own. To further just that one little piece of the pie...science...in order to prove theories of science you have to make observations to draw conclusions. Otherwise they a just theories. How did anyone observe anything that supposedly happen a trillion years ago? They didn't, they just put together a theory because they don't want to acknowledge a creator. I say it takes more faith to trust what someone theorizes than it does to say "God did this" but that's just a simple, uneducated dude from Jersey. What do I know? One day, whether tonight, tomorrow next year or the day I die I'm going to find out. I'm happy to believe that the instruction manual God left for me tells me who He is and how to be able to abide with Him for eternity. If I'm wrong about it, what have I lost. If you're wrong, you've lost your soul |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 17:34:29 GMT -6
@sorry, Thanks for the clarification! I suppose my view is that the real world event we are given to mark the onset of the 70th week of Daniel is a covenant....that is what I am looking for to mark the beginning of the 7 year period. It has not happened yet.....therefore, the 70th week has not started. If it does happen, and we are still here, we may be able to say "soon", since by the end of the 70th week, or 7 year period, we know that Messiah will have returned! Until then, our speculations are nothing more than a prospective test of sorts.....
Thanks for the question,
Shalom!
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, I guess that doesn't come across so well in a post. But in all seriousness I don't really know what the chances are, we are about to find out right? Prophetically speaking I do believe that the next big event will be the rapture. However that doesn't mean that other events won't precede it, like perhaps economic upheaval, war, natural disasters, but those kinds of events have been happening throughout history. I do believe that the rapture is imminent and is the next big prophetic event to be fulfilled. 
