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Post by disciple4life on Nov 23, 2017 15:11:57 GMT -6
This is a very short but incredible clip. It's about 6 minutes - well worth the time. Yesterday - Wednesday, Nov 22, was a huge, huge development - the first time ever in history that these three nations have made an alliance. Russia, Iran and Turkey made an alliance in Sochi. I realize that there are other views and perspectives. ;-) Joel Richardson is the only one I know of who actually points out both methods and the two views.
Joel Richardson uses very clear and solid hermeneutic - looking at the historical, grammatical and geographical context. .
Pastor Steve Ciocciolanti says the exact same thing - Gog is the Person [Prince] OF Magog. Magog - the Place. Most Bible atlases concur that all these cities in Ezekiel are in Asia Minor - Turkey. Togormah, Meshech, Tubal.
There is no scriptural evidence for Russia being Gog or Magog, or part of the Ezekiel 38 & 39 war. We can't take words from Biblical languages [or any language] and say it sounds like this word in English.
- This is one of THE biggest reasons - so many have been led to believe for so many years that Magog is Russia. "Meshech sounds like Moscow and Rosh sounds like Russia, and Tubal sounds like Tbilisi.
 This linguistic "false friend/ [linguistic interference] is how people thought Pennsylvania immigrants were "Dutch" - The German word for German sounds a little like "Dutch", to English speakers.
The other huge factor that has caused so much confusion is the misnomer/ that Russia is North of Israel. It's North on a flat map, but a Geodesic line [Straight line on a globe due North from Jerusalem] goes directly through Ankara. Barely even hits the edge of Russia - not highly populated areas - Nowhere near Moscow. Thank you, Stephen, for bringing this to my attention and clearing it up. I really appreciate it. That's how we learn. ;-)
This is the Longer version that thoroughly explains both sides and methods. ;-)
***Russia may likely be involved, - The nations are not exhaustive - and it says many nations, and with this in mind, this huge alliance between Russia, Iran and Turkey is Huge and has Major prophetic/ end times implications. So exciting -- I think we're seeing Birth pangs.
"Even So, Lord Jesus, Come" Maranatha!! Geographic coordinates according to Wikipedia Jerusalem: 31° 47′ N, 35° 13′ OAnkara: 39° 55′ N, 32° 51′ OMoscow: 55° 45′ N, 37° 37′ OThis means, that Moscow is about +2° off, Ankara about -2° off if you draw a geodesic line from Jerusalem to north. Check for yourself on a globe. In other words, the red marked claim above cannot be true. I have heard this several times, but it is simply false, according to verifyable facts. Hello Stephen, Thank you, for bringing that to my attention and clearing up the mistake/ innacurate information. I really appreciate it. ;-) That's how we learn from each other as watchmen.
Blessings, Disciple4life.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 23, 2017 20:42:45 GMT -6
As I look around the world and I read my Bible, here are my thoughts: First, Ez 38:1-7 The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you. “ Be ready and keep ready, you and all your hosts that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them.
Putin is in charge in Syria and the Middle East. He's their guard. If Israel does anything in Syria, they are going to have to deal with Russia.
I don't think there is any argument that Persia is Iran. And who does Iran send weapons through? Who else is wanting help from Russia? Libya and Sudan. (I know other interpretations may say Ethiopia...I'm not 100% certain on Libya and Sudan, just going by what I see). Here is an interesting article I found tonight.www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-russia-sudans-bashir-asks-putin-for-protection-from-us/ar-BBFx8z7?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntpOne of these is Turkey. Maybe both -- as Togarmah is a son of Gomer. (I also found a link from Jack Kelley that has Togarmah as the Armenians) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 23:38:52 GMT -6
As I look around the world and I read my Bible, here are my thoughts: First, Ez 38:1-7 The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you. “ Be ready and keep ready, you and all your hosts that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them.
Putin is in charge in Syria and the Middle East. He's their guard. If Israel does anything in Syria, they are going to have to deal with Russia.
I don't think there is any argument that Persia is Iran. And who does Iran send weapons through? Who else is wanting help from Russia? Libya and Sudan. (I know other interpretations may say Ethiopia...I'm not 100% certain on Libya and Sudan, just going by what I see). Here is an interesting article I found tonight.www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-russia-sudans-bashir-asks-putin-for-protection-from-us/ar-BBFx8z7?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntpOne of these is Turkey. Maybe both -- as Togarmah is a son of Gomer. (I also found a link from Jack Kelley that has Togarmah as the Armenians)Sorry for jumping in.... I am a bit confused about the red emphasized phrase above on Persia. So who do you think is old Persia today if not modern Iran....? Or maybe the word not is missing in the mentioned sentence? Thanks for clarifying this point. Regarding the discussion about Russia....indeed obviously Putin (Russia) is calling the shots in Syria. At least for now. The near future will shed more light on this and how things are going to develop. |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 24, 2017 8:50:29 GMT -6
Hi Stephan! I was attempting to say that Persia is Iran and I do not think people interpret it as anything else. Sorry it wasn't clear.
Yes, it will be interesting to watch how things develop.
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Post by rt on Nov 24, 2017 15:30:15 GMT -6
"Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal"
Is it possible that Gog is a spiritual prince that rules over these geographical areas? Like in Daniel, where Gabriel is withstood by the prince of Persia? And later the prince of Greece comes?
Just throwing it out there, not really sure of it myself, just wondering.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 24, 2017 15:45:20 GMT -6
"Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal" Is it possible that Gog is a spiritual prince that rules over these geographical areas? Like in Daniel, where Gabriel is withstood by the prince of Persia? And later the prince of Greece comes? Just throwing it out there, not really sure of it myself, just wondering. I have heard this possibility before. My only issue would be that Ez 39:11 "on that day I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel...for there Gog and all his multitude will be buried..." So, this would suggest that he is a physical person capable of being buried. |
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Post by disciple4life on Feb 27, 2018 7:49:47 GMT -6
"Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal" Is it possible that Gog is a spiritual prince that rules over these geographical areas? Like in Daniel, where Gabriel is withstood by the prince of Persia? And later the prince of Greece comes? Just throwing it out there, not really sure of it myself, just wondering. I have heard this possibility before. My only issue would be that Ez 39:11 "on that day I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel...for there Gog and all his multitude will be buried..." So, this would suggest that he is a physical person capable of being buried. Spot on Natalie. !! So many people miss this, but I think's its a very significant point - I don't take any credit. Two separate end-times teachers both affirming the same thing. ***I know that no matter who we list - someone will always have something they disagree with and often, people tend to throw out everything because they disagree on one minor point.
-- The point here is that it is Gog - [Person/ Prince] OF Magog - [Place ]
The short teaching by Steve Ciocciolanti really clears up so so much. and then the specific talk of Amir Tsarfati on Gog of Magog is amazing. Dual Fulfillment.
Turkey is Magog, NOT RUSSIA. People say 'Meshech' sounds like Moscow - Aaaaggghhhhhhhhhh, says everyone who's studied any language. All the cities in Ezekiel 38/39 - Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, Togarmah are Modern day Turkey. Also, all the seven churches in Revelation - are all in Turkey - not Russia. Then, we just saw another prophecy fulfilled before our eyes 3 months ago - with the alliance of Russia, Turkey and Iran. All the players are in Place. Google pictures/ images of Damascus - it's surreal. The amount of destruction and ruins is staggering. Even now, it looks like a 'ruinous heap' but it's not yet 'uninhabitable'.
As J D Farag suggests - He believes that Sadaam Hussein moved the Chemical weapons to Damascus and that they are currently being hidden/ stored under the city. One strike and instantly what's left of Damascus becomes "uninhabitable".
www.foxnews.com/world/2018/02/27/turkeys-erdogan-tells-crying-girl-6-shed-be-honored-if-killed-in-battle-report.html
Even so Come, Lord Jesus
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Post by Natalie on Feb 27, 2018 8:54:20 GMT -6
Short answer as to why I say that Magog is Russia -- The Bible says that Gog of Magog will be a guard for them. It sure looks like what Russia is doing. disciple4life I also thought you might like a different answer than "Mesech sounds like Moscow", so here's my longer answer: The only book I have read that could be related to this subject is The Tower of Babel by Bodie Hodge (he works for Answers in Genesis). It traces where the family groups went when God dispersed them at the Tower of Babel. He has from Josephus' Antiquity of the Jews that Gomer was who the Greeks called the Galatians or Galls (so, yes, Turkey). Magog the Greeks called the Scythians. The Scythians were in an area of Russia above the Black Sea. Those from Tubal were known as Iberes (this book connects them to the Iberians/Siberians, but I also saw present day Armenia labeled as where Tubal went). He's got quotes from James Anderson's Royal Genealogies (from the 1700s) speaking of the Muscovites derived from Meshech, the son of Japheth, traveling from Shinar north into the mountains that used to be called Montes Moschica and then traveling on north from there to an area they called Muscovy. They lived near the ancient Russians (the Scythians). So, there are definitely different opinions on where these groups are from. The book even talks about Turks and Magogites mixing, so it's possible that names could get tied to either group. BUT, however you interpret the names I don't think it can be anyone but Russia, Turkey, and Iran. And we have seen their alliance go public. I was looking at pictures of Damascus the other day. The destruction is, as you said, staggering. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 3:45:07 GMT -6
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Post by sog on Apr 4, 2018 11:05:33 GMT -6
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Post by disciple4life on Apr 6, 2018 13:39:43 GMT -6
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Post by venge on Apr 30, 2018 16:04:20 GMT -6
I chose the unpopular: In between the beginning and the end of the 70th week. Because God starts talking about the Antichrist ascending (Seal 1 of revelation) all the way thru the last Bowl. It is not the millennium because verse 8 says
This is the creation of Israel in 1948. In verse 9 we see,
War sometime after Israel created. Verse 16 shows Christ was us to know him, and top repent when he says,
And in verse 17 we know it is the man of sin that God is speaking of...
The following verses describe different parts of the Trumpets and Bowl judgments.
First he speaks of Gog (the AC) rising with power with his armies. A good note here. There is no false prophet or is there. In Ezekiel 38 only 2 things are listed.
2 things are listed. Gog is listed and Gog's armies. If you have read other things I have listed on previous threads, there is:
1. the Beast of the Earth
2. the Beast of the Sea
In Revelation there is the:
1. False prophet
2. Beast from the Sea
Here in Ezekiel there is:
1. Gog
2. Gog's armies
Now I have explained numerous times before, the Beast from the Sea is the last empire which is Gog's armies. Gog is the Antichrist which is the False prophet.
Notice here there is no Leader and False prophet. Let us dispel this old unscriptural myth.
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Post by fitz on Apr 30, 2018 16:47:26 GMT -6
I chose the unpopular: In between the beginning and the end of the 70th week. Because God starts talking about the Antichrist ascending (Seal 1 of revelation) all the way thru the last Bowl. It is not the millennium because verse 8 says This is the creation of Israel in 1948. In verse 9 we see, War sometime after Israel created. Verse 16 shows Christ was us to know him, and top repent when he says, And in verse 17 we know it is the man of sin that God is speaking of... The following verses describe different parts of the Trumpets and Bowl judgments. First he speaks of Gog (the AC) rising with power with his armies. A good note here. There is no false prophet or is there. In Ezekiel 38 only 2 things are listed. 2 things are listed. Gog is listed and Gog's armies. If you have read other things I have listed on previous threads, there is: 1. the Beast of the Earth 2. the Beast of the Sea In Revelation there is the: 1. False prophet 2. Beast from the Sea Here in Ezekiel there is: 1. Gog 2. Gog's armies Now I have explained numerous times before, the Beast from the Sea is the last empire which is Gog's armies. Gog is the Antichrist which is the False prophet. Notice here there is no Leader and False prophet. Let us dispel this old unscriptural myth. Ah, but as I've said, it cannot be dispelled so easily. Rev 19:19&20 19And I saw the beast ( singular, a man), and the kings of the earth, and their armies (here are his armies), gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him (a "him" is a person) the false prophet ( this is two people) that wrought miracles before him ( him...that's not an army, it's a person), with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his ( the beast, a man...again, you do not refer to an army as "his" or "him") image. These both ( two people) were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 30, 2018 17:33:26 GMT -6
Gog also can't be the False Prophet or the beast because Gog is buried in Israel and the beast and False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire, alive.
Ezekiel 39:11 "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel..."
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Post by venge on May 1, 2018 7:29:20 GMT -6
Gog also can't be the False Prophet or the beast because Gog is buried in Israel and the beast and False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire, alive. Ezekiel 39:11 "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel..." That is like saying we cannot be buried and our souls in heaven. Of course he can be buried and his soul in the lake of fire. Flesh is not permanent. |
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This linguistic "false friend/ [linguistic interference] is how people thought Pennsylvania immigrants were "Dutch" 
