|
|
Post by kjs on Aug 9, 2017 12:07:36 GMT -6
I have just been going over in my mind – how none of the “Big Names” in Eschatology and Prophecy identified this sign early on. {No offense Scotty, you had a decent size following but you were more in the Minor League}
Now, because we are “getting closer” and more and more people are starting to “wake up” that this is really happening ….
The “Big Names” are starting to come out in force – proclaiming loudly (and in my opinion angrily) that this is just a new “Date Setting Trend” and want EVERYONE to know they “Know Nothing – Absolutely Nothing” (Sergeant Schultz anyone?) about it – and everyone should be prepared to look very silly after nothing happening!
NO, neither I nor many of my new found friends can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this event (and it really is an event – the SIGN will OCCUR) and the rapture will occur just before / during / or shortly after this event.
BUT by the same token – None of the Big Names – can prove it will not happen…….
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Aug 9, 2017 12:42:53 GMT -6
Yes and that's key! Svigel criticizes those he claims are playing the risky "dating game", but he and other big names are playing a similarly risky game: choosing not to watch when God commands them to watch. Who will be lost or led astray because they remained silent? I don't question their salvation, but while they think we will be ashamed if nothing happens in September, I think it will be a greater shame to them to face God knowing they ridiculed His GREAT SIGN and hundreds, thousands, perhaps millions of people were caught off guard because of their failure to heed the warning.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiffanybw on Aug 10, 2017 8:17:30 GMT -6
The thing that really gets to me about all of it is that they are lying. I'm sure there is a small group out there somewhere that is claiming that The Rapture will be happening exactly on September 23. But the people I talk to, the youtube videos I watch, and the people on this forum; I've yet to hear anyone date set or say, "RAPTURE. SEPTEMBER 23, 2017." Especially the man you are referencing Gary, when I read what he said about us, people who are his brothers and sisters in Christ; it was just so nasty and so vicious. A few of the things that really got to me: 1. "these self-proclaimed Watchers", just such a self righteous statement upon his part, praising himself almost while he condemns us. The Bible not only suggests but commands us to watch. If one is a Christian, one should be a watcher (and I don't know why he capitalized it, is he insinuating we are trying to hold ourselves up as gods?). Verses: Ezekiel 33:1-33 (specifically verse 6), Isaiah 21:5-12, Isaiah 52:8, Jeremiah 31:6, Proverbs 8:34, Psalms 130:6, Luke 12:37-40, Luke 21:36, Matthew 24:42-44, Matthew 25:13, Mark 13:34-37, Matthew 26:38-44 and Mark 14:34-39 (very good examples of Jesus Himself watching and chastising the disciples for having fallen asleep; what do they do; they fall asleep AGAIN), Revelation 16:15, and need I go on because I'm sure there is more. 2. "latest outbreak of acute Datesetting-Syndrome" Oh, really? So in addition to being the only follower of Jesus who truly knows and properly interprets God's Word, he is also now a licensed psychiatrist? Will I find this diagnosis in the DSM? Or trying to be funny for the sake of impressing his fellow man and all the unbelieving scoffers out there? I wonder what God thinks. Because, just saying, seems that he is a scoffer. In addition, he needs to go back and watch Scottie's videos, God's Roadmap to the End, Parable of the Vineyard... and again I ask him, just WHOM is it that is date setting? Because I don't see it. What I do see, at the least this man embellishing truth and at the most outright lying on his own brothers and sisters in Christ. I personally know of no person claiming Rapture will happen exactly September 23. Maybe he does? Maybe the emails he is getting annoying him so are from unbelievers seeking Truth, seeking Jesus. Depending upon just how many emails he has received I certainly can understand not being able to answer them all personally. But could do what he just did, post on his blog, but instead of making things up, name calling, scoffing, making fun of, and being nasty to fellow believers who are just as much a part of Christ's Body as he is... He could have taken the time to answer all those unbelievers, all those seekers and confused people writing him... and explain to them what it says in Genesis 1:14, explain that God indeed does show us humans signs and seasons, and if he doesn't believe that is the actual Revelation 12 sign in the sky right now, explain that he doesn't think it is and give his reasoning why; but also state that someday the Revelation 12 sign will most certainly be in the sky and will be seen by all. Why? Because that is EXACTLY what it says in Revelation 12:1. Explain the Gospel Message that is Jesus Christ and how we are saved by faith and not by works, explain that brothers and sisters in Christ are still sinners and the only difference between us and those who don't believe is that our sin is forgiven due to our belief on Jesus, and that someday we will be One Perfect Body of Christ but that for right now we remain one sinful body of Christ and so we have different opinions and interpretations. Also Romans 3:10 which applies to everyone including himself and also James 4:11-12 and Jeremiah 17:10; therefore we should not judge another man's heart because there is not one man alive who does know another man's heart. 1 Corinthians 4:1-6 ESV - This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God. 6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another. 7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
3. I agree, it is a grievous sin to set dates. AGAIN, who is setting dates? Because it is not us. Who is pathetically wrong? We don't present ourselves as 100% right. You do though. Could you be wrong? Who is foolish? Absolutely, I am. Unfortunately I was born this way, corrupt and sinful. Is there anyone aside from Jesus who wasn't born this way? Who is sign-seeking? No one that I know is "seeking" signs. We are merely reading our Bibles and watching. We are speculating that this very well could be the Revelation 12 sign. Is it possible it is not? Of course. Can God do whatever He wants and make whatever sign He wants to in the sky, regardless of Stellarium or whatever astronomy software we use? ABSOLUTELY YES, HE CAN. He can do anything. Therefore, it is possible this isn't the Revelation 12 sign. It could be that the Revelation 12 sign is yet to come at some unknown date before or after September 23, 2017. Got to say though... because I'm watching and ALWAYS will be as long as I am here on this planet... It is also very possible that it is the Revelation 12 sign up there right now. It sure does look like it!
4. "Misguided brainless zealots", "High risk gamblers playing the Dating-Game", "We must ban, shun, and reject those who play the Dating-Game." (First he states completely false things about the majority of us; then he tells everyone to ban, shun, and reject us. He is commanding others to reject brothers and sisters in Christ, those of his own body, who do not believe exactly as he does; who think it possible that the Revelation 12 sign is in the sky right now and that it could mean something because of what the Bible says in Revelation 12. Wow. Ok.), "we must also inoculate ourselves against the much more common disease of “This-is-that-itis." (Again, is this man a doctor? I've never heard of "This-is-that-itis". Oh... another disparaging joke made to those to the world by this man, making fun of his brothers and sisters in Christ, those who are of the same Body he is of. Nice.) "The Revelation 12 prophecy proponents are guilty of both Sign-Seeking and Date-Setting." I definitely do consider myself to be a Revelation 12 prophecy proponent. It is GOING to happen someday. How do I know? The Infallible Word of God says so. Because I believe in what the Bible tells me, this man is judging me, rendering me guilty of sign-seeking and date-setting. This fallible man is telling me I am guilty because I believe God's Word. Just, I do see why "judging" can be such a dangerous, dangerous thing for a man to do; and is most likely why the Bible has much to say and goes into detail about it.
5. "Do not let your lamps go out." That is very good advice. That is exactly what I and many others are doing. And for some of us, for me definitely, my lamp has never been so full. It is absolutely overflowing! I love my Lord more and more each second, each minute, each hour, each day, each month, each year. And I pray that love will just continue to grow more and more; until I die; or until He comes for me.
That article really got to me. And it breaks my heart what many of those with "big names" are saying and doing; the way they are behaving right now. I felt a need to respond. Hopefully he will read this, pray on it, and really think about his words, his name calling, his presumptions, and his judgements that he himself has proclaimed upon his own brothers and sisters who follow Jesus. 
Edit: Thank you Watchman Jim! 
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 10, 2017 8:47:54 GMT -6
This reminds me of the mention of watchmen in Song of Solomon 3 and 5, which I think is prophetic of the wise and foolish virgins of Matt. 25, respectively. SoS overall is talking about the love between Christ and His Bride, as is Proverbs 31.
Take a look.
This is the Wise Virgin, notice the Watchmen didn't answer:
Now look at Chapter 5, see what happens to the Foolish Virgin:
I think it's possible that the foolish virgin may be the Tribulation Saints, and/or the Jews, who, like in SoS, are united with the Groom, implying that He returns for her.
|
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Aug 10, 2017 8:59:31 GMT -6
Tiffany,
If you note at which point your text turned blue, and go to "edit" your post, you should be able to select that portion of the text and turn it back to black using the color selector at the top bar.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiffanybw on Aug 10, 2017 9:08:19 GMT -6
Thank you for posting that. Was amazing, and so beautiful.
I agree, absolutely think you could be right!
The foolish virgin sat there worrying about her cloak, her feet. She wasn't watching or looking for her love like the wise virgin was. She was waiting for him to come to her. And when he did come to her, first thing: she wasn't ready, waiting, watching for his arrival. She certainly wasn't up and about the town looking for him. Second thing: she did not answer the door immediately. She waited too long to answer it and by the time she did he was gone.
She still loved him very much, just as the first virgin did. But she was foolish.
|
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Aug 10, 2017 9:12:58 GMT -6
I wonder exactly what is meant by: "The keepers of the walls took my veil away from me."
I think it is pretty clear, if you are right about the scenario, and I think you are, that these watchmen are not those of us who are acting as watchmen now, since we would not do this to them, nor will we be present at the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 10, 2017 9:25:11 GMT -6
I wonder exactly what is meant by: "The keepers of the walls took my veil away from me." I think it is pretty clear, if you are right about the scenario, and I think you are, that these watchmen are not those of us who are acting as watchmen now, since we would not do this to them, nor will we be present at the time. The Hebrew word for "veil" refers to a cloak, rather than a veil over the face: www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7289&t=NKJVWhat's interesting is that the only other time this word is found is in Isaiah 3....check this out: |
|
|
|
Post by watchmanjim on Aug 10, 2017 10:43:48 GMT -6
Wow. I've noticed that Isaiah 3 is an important passage, and that many of the words in it are mentioned only once, or just a very few times in Scripture.
Somewhere I have a thread called "Isaiah 3 Women" or something like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 10, 2017 10:55:50 GMT -6
Also, a cloak is a garment, a covering; as you probably know, in the salvific sense, a garment refers to righteousness, and you either have your own garment, or the one you get from Christ. This idea of her garment/robe/veil/cloak being taken may be an allusion to her sense of self-righteousness being taken away-as in those Jews who flee will no longer be able to claim their rituals as a source of righteousness, since they won't be able to wear their phylacteries and make a show of their religiousity at the Western Wall.  |
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Aug 11, 2017 14:21:52 GMT -6
It looks like for all intents and purposes Paul Begley and Mark Biltz are now onboard the REV12 train: There's actually a few interesting new observations from Biltz: 1. We already knew the 8/21 eclipse occurs on the 1st day of Elul, which starts the Season of Teshuvah (repentance). There is a direct parallel in Haggai 1:1-2 where people are saying on Elul 1 that "the time has not yet come". 2. Going with the Lev. 12 imagery of a woman giving birth to a male child and the purification rights. Not only is the eclipse 33 days before 9/23, which in turn is 7 days before Atonement, but Atonement is 33 days before November 2nd, which is the anniversary of the Balfour Declaration. 3. The International Day of Peace was originally on 9/11/01 in 2001, but Kofi Annan changed it that same day to permanently be 9/21. 9/21/17 is the FOT. www.unis.unvienna.org/unis/pressrels/2001/sgsm7945.html |
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Aug 19, 2017 14:36:00 GMT -6
Jack Hibbs just posted on Facebook warning people not to be deceived about the "Sept 23, 2017 hysteria" and about the rapture and tribulation starting on that day.
Amir Tsarfati also posted a couple days ago linking to the Answer's in Genesis article about Sept 23.
I wish they would do their homework instead of just blowing it off. These two talk all the time about Jesus coming, yet they can't see it.
|
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Aug 19, 2017 16:41:58 GMT -6
Yes, when I first heard of the Revelation 12 sign - I was like sure another group looking to make a fast buck.
then I started studying and the vast majority of the people are not charging any money for them sharing their thoughts on the meaning of this sign.
The sign will 100% happen this Sept. 23rd and it has been shown that this is the closest alignment with the Great Sign in Revelation.
Does that mean the rapture and or Tribulation starts then? Maybe , maybe not .... There are actually only a very few who saying this is a definite, most like I think it is possible, but will not draw a line in the sand and say yes.
One item that has convinced me the most .... Is also the very prophecy these ministries ignore completely.....
That of course is the Micah 5:3 - where else does one see written in the word of God ... That the abandonment of Israel will cease when the woman gives Birth to a son......
I am 100% convinced that when the Birth happens something wonderful and amazing will happen .... Is it the rapture .... Maybe!
Only thing I am waiting on now is the Birth.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Aug 19, 2017 16:59:24 GMT -6
kjs -- exactly! And I would rather be watching and ready than dismissing it.
|
|
|
|
Post by socalexile on Aug 19, 2017 21:19:38 GMT -6
Jack Hibbs just posted on Facebook warning people not to be deceived about the "Sept 23, 2017 hysteria" and about the rapture and tribulation starting on that day. Amir Tsarfati also posted a couple days ago linking to the Answer's in Genesis article about Sept 23. I wish they would do their homework instead of just blowing it off. These two talk all the time about Jesus coming, yet they can't see it. Jack Hibbs only recently learned how to button his shirt. Sorry I could't resist.  Look at what these men say about the Gospel. Many will give what amounts to lip service to "salvation by grace through faith alone"; because, if you asked them if people who practice certain sins can be saved, they'd say, "no". If you asked them if 1 John 3:9 is saying that those in habitual sin aren't saved, they'd say, "yes" ( it's not) If you asked if James 2 is talking about being justified before God and saved from eternal condemnation, they'd say "yes" ( it's not), and so on. I've gotten into the same discussion about works vs. grace with Hibbs' fans that I get into with Lordship Salvationists, Catholics, Mormons, JWs etc. A lot of these guys are in the same clique. Did anyone respond to Tsarfati's post? |
|
