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Post by lionofgod on Mar 18, 2021 20:04:13 GMT -6
I reread your posts and I think I understand what you are saying, I just haven't heard it put quite that way. Can you give me an example of "as the Bible refers shook out of himself"? I haven't heard that before. Also, have you ever did a study of the "Angel of the LORD"? Who is He? He speaks as though He is God and even accepts worship. People are even afraid they will die because they have seen God (I think that's Samson's parents). But yet we are also told "No one has ever seen God" (John 1:18) but John also goes on to say, "The only God, who is at the Father’s side, He has made Him known." Another thing I have found interesting is that how sometimes in the OT when the Word of the LORD appears to people it seems as though a physical person is there. (Genesis 15:4-7 for example) Then John tells us that the Word became flesh. You have to look to the original Greek and Hebrew, the word it has that is translated as Begotten, refers to a shaking out. It is a manner of speaking from the old times, but helps to give clarity. I don't have my Greek and Hebrew "cheat sheet" handy or I'd give you the word to look up. But it should be an easy find in a search. I only learned it because one of my pastors and friends in life was a fluent speaker and reader of Both and didn't even carry an english version bible. LOL Small blessings along the road that helped later.  As to the "Angel of the Lord", I'd need a passage to go back and see. several angels are mentioned in the bible, Gabriel for one. But all are angels of the Lord. so I'd have to reread what ever passage you specifically refer to to give an informed answer. It is true that none have seen the face of the Lord. We cannot conceive or comprehend God, he may not even have a "face' as we understand the meaning of the word, he may be incorporeal and only appear as we can grasp. That is one of the few things in the bible that I call "God's knowledge" and is known only to him until we shed our flesh form. John is describing Jesus. and I'd have to read the entire scripture to be sure, but If I am recalling the correct one, the one made known is the Holy Spirit. For Jesus whom is on Gods right hand side in heaven gave us the Spirit when he ascended back to the Father. ie- made him known to us. Great catch on the final part! the "Word" is Jesus! He is referred to as that many times in the OT. Also the word Lord is used mostly in describing Jesus, for the translators and indeed the people of the time had a hard time understanding The Father/Son equality relationship thing, so they would use god most times except when talking about Jesus and the Father, then they would use Lord and God, so as not to confuse. Nice observation! |
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Post by Natalie on Mar 18, 2021 20:28:40 GMT -6
I looked up "begotten" on Blueletterbible.org and I am not seeing what your pastor friend sees. (I looked at the roots for each word also) www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=begotten&t=KJV#s=s_lexiconcI would say the One made known is the Father John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? He gives the Spirit, but He makes the Father known. Yes, there are several angels mentioned in the Bible. But there is one that stands out as unique. Some examples: Gen 16 Gen 22 Ex 3 Judges 13 It's time for me to be offline for the night. I'll bring any other questions tomorrow. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 18, 2021 21:44:31 GMT -6
I looked up "begotten" on Blueletterbible.org and I am not seeing what your pastor friend sees. (I looked at the roots for each word also) www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=begotten&t=KJV#s=s_lexiconcI would say the One made known is the Father John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? He gives the Spirit, but He makes the Father known. Yes, there are several angels mentioned in the Bible. But there is one that stands out as unique. Some examples: Gen 16 Gen 22 Ex 3 Judges 13 It's time for me to be offline for the night. I'll bring any other questions tomorrow. Great questions! AS to the begotten part, I'm afraid I'm relying on an explanation and study done previously, I will still try tracking it down, but I may not be quoiting the proper word used at the proper spot, the topic at the time od discovery was the "inception or bringing about of Jesus from the Father". I may have sighted the wrong verse. I'll look into it for the sake of curiosity, however the word begot was a thing of much contention in the early church where many debates were had over what wording best described the relationship. Because men are begotten of their fathers, so that is the common term, but Jesus was not a man as we know, so being begot is a bit insufficient in describing. They are of the same, but also different. You see the obvious problem with defining that in a human way. I had asked this of my friend when he explained it as I described, he quite possibly used other verses to give clarity. I understood it then and now, but may not be able to give it the definition it deserves. It doesn't change anything though so it is of little consequence in the message. Ahhhh... I see which angel you refer to, this is pre Jesus birth to man. Though there is no specific naming of this particular angel as opposed to most of the rest, it does have a very distinct title to help us to divine the identity. All other angels are "from" or sent by the lord save this one that is only titled "of" the lord. That leaves only 2 possibilities, Jesus in pre human form or the Holy Spirit. But since Jesus specifies sending the spirit after his death, I'd say that only leaves Jesus as a possibility. That would bare out in the manner in which it spoke to, as if it had the authority of God, as opposed to a messenger, which is the usual role of the angels. Hope that helps. BTW, Good questions! AS always the best answer will be in the origins of the thing, in this case the very specific name given it. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 18, 2021 22:05:24 GMT -6
After reading a considerable amount of the writings and beliefs, I have found not only no falsehoods yet, but an excellent description of the text and scripture in the bible here. The authors go to great lengths to let the scripture define the scriptures, as it should be done. With the exception of the future prophesies, all in the bible is self explanatory, when we try to impart meaning that is not explicitly spoken of, we divert from the intended meaning. I give credit to those that do not do so, letting the word stand on it's own and merely point you to another scripture where the same thing is repeated in different words. My writing is far from eloquent or possibly even easy to get, despite my best efforts. But these folks not only seem to express the truth I'm given but do so in scripture which I am not yet fluent enough in. I would recommend giving them a once over and see if they shed more light on things than I, as far as scripture definitions etc. I am not affiliated with, nor have I ever met or talked with anyone on or contributing to this site. I was led there by their daily bible verse, I came across on a different platform, and as I do, I went to the origin to find the truth, which is what I found. www.cgg.org/ |
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Post by boraddict on Mar 18, 2021 22:08:18 GMT -6
stormyknight said: "Show God the respect due Him in capitalizing His name and His pronouns. I believe it means a great deal to Him." It is interesting that you would say that because it is exactly how I do it as well. In fact, if I am writing and misspell the Savior's name I get upset with myself for being so disrespectful. Like I go back to correct the spelling and am ashamed for my lack of respect. Also, when I pray I present myself as if He is right there. I am courteous and mindful of his presence. At times I bow myself to the floor knowing that I am but a speck of dust in his presence. I do my best to give my best in prayer and speak to him as a friend. Like "Father, thank you for blessing me today. Thank you for watching over my family and protecting us from evil. Please bless my children with peace. In the name of Lord Jesus, Amen." Sometimes my prayers are longer but I always remember the safety of my children. I need to work on my pronouns though.
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 19, 2021 6:47:17 GMT -6
stormyknight said: "Show God the respect due Him in capitalizing His name and His pronouns. I believe it means a great deal to Him." It is interesting that you would say that because it is exactly how I do it as well. In fact, if I am writing and misspell the Savior's name I get upset with myself for being so disrespectful. Like I go back to correct the spelling and am ashamed for my lack of respect. Also, when I pray I present myself as if He is right there. I am courteous and mindful of his presence. At times I bow myself to the floor knowing that I am but a speck of dust in his presence. I do my best to give my best in prayer and speak to him as a friend. Like "Father, thank you for blessing me today. Thank you for watching over my family and protecting us from evil. Please bless my children with peace. In the name of Lord Jesus, Amen." Sometimes my prayers are longer but I always remember the safety of my children. I need to work on my pronouns though. That's wonderful sister! More people should remember to pray more often and do so as if He is right there, because He is! I do my best to thank him all day for all things, as all I have is gifted from Him. I say a small prayer before I even get out of bed in the morning. When I wake, my first thoughts are to give thanks for another day, then recognize Him in all I do, ending the night with thanks for a good day and praying to do his will in the next. We do well to thank Him and give credit where it is due! But no matter how much respect and credit we give Him, we can always give more. The more you put in, the more you get out. God Bless, have a wonderful day in the Lord! |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 19, 2021 7:03:01 GMT -6
@stormynight Your avatar names you Berean, I don't believe in coincidence, that is also the name of my daily verse and bible study! www.theberean.org/ I am curious as to the meaning of it to you, are you from Macedonea? Veria? Or is it used in remembrance of the helper's of Paul? Or just in the general sense that the Bereans are generally thought to be good followers of the Lord? Have a blessed day brother! |
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Post by Natalie on Mar 19, 2021 8:04:41 GMT -6
lionofgod , the names in the avatar (Berean, Mountain Mover, etc) are given based on how many posts someone has made. The only exception is for those who are moderators. But yes, it was a chosen title to reflect that we search the Scriptures to know what is true.
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Post by Natalie on Mar 19, 2021 8:15:15 GMT -6
Thanks for answering my questions. It helps me make sense of your other posts. |
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Post by mike on Mar 19, 2021 8:22:12 GMT -6
After reading a considerable amount of the writings and beliefs, I have found not only no falsehoods yet, but an excellent description of the text and scripture in the bible here. The authors go to great lengths to let the scripture define the scriptures, as it should be done. With the exception of the future prophesies, all in the bible is self explanatory, when we try to impart meaning that is not explicitly spoken of, we divert from the intended meaning. I give credit to those that do not do so, letting the word stand on it's own and merely point you to another scripture where the same thing is repeated in different words. My writing is far from eloquent or possibly even easy to get, despite my best efforts. But these folks not only seem to express the truth I'm given but do so in scripture which I am not yet fluent enough in. I would recommend giving them a once over and see if they shed more light on things than I, as far as scripture definitions etc. I am not affiliated with, nor have I ever met or talked with anyone on or contributing to this site. I was led there by their daily bible verse, I came across on a different platform, and as I do, I went to the origin to find the truth, which is what I found. www.cgg.org/Just checked the beliefs area of this website. Here are few issues I noticed and although I did not check all of the "beliefs" these were sufficient for me Really?! missing the third person of the Godhead is a problem for me. But the false doctrine continues the heresy continues If you are citing this church for doctrinal items, please do not do so here on Unsealed. |
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Post by yardstick on Mar 20, 2021 13:26:53 GMT -6
After reading a considerable amount of the writings and beliefs, I have found not only no falsehoods yet, but an excellent description of the text and scripture in the bible here. The authors go to great lengths to let the scripture define the scriptures, as it should be done. With the exception of the future prophesies, all in the bible is self explanatory, when we try to impart meaning that is not explicitly spoken of, we divert from the intended meaning. I give credit to those that do not do so, letting the word stand on it's own and merely point you to another scripture where the same thing is repeated in different words. My writing is far from eloquent or possibly even easy to get, despite my best efforts. But these folks not only seem to express the truth I'm given but do so in scripture which I am not yet fluent enough in. I would recommend giving them a once over and see if they shed more light on things than I, as far as scripture definitions etc. I am not affiliated with, nor have I ever met or talked with anyone on or contributing to this site. I was led there by their daily bible verse, I came across on a different platform, and as I do, I went to the origin to find the truth, which is what I found. www.cgg.org/Just checked the beliefs area of this website. Here are few issues I noticed and although I did not check all of the "beliefs" these were sufficient for me Really?! missing the third person of the Godhead is a problem for me. But the false doctrine continues the heresy continues If you are citing this church for doctrinal items, please do not do so here on Unsealed. I believe it is worth noting here that the 10 commandments...are part of the law! Thus, this statement contradicts itself. |
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Post by yardstick on Mar 20, 2021 20:13:08 GMT -6
Just checked the beliefs area of this website. Here are few issues I noticed and although I did not check all of the "beliefs" these were sufficient for me Really?! missing the third person of the Godhead is a problem for me. But the false doctrine continues the heresy continues If you are citing this church for doctrinal items, please do not do so here on Unsealed. I believe it is worth noting here that the 10 commandments...are part of the law! Thus, this statement contradicts itself. It should be further noted that keeping the 10 commandments as a prerequisite to salvation makes the obtaining of salvation by works. Not faith. Eph 2:8-9Salvation = Christ + nothing |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 20, 2021 21:42:48 GMT -6
After reading a considerable amount of the writings and beliefs, I have found not only no falsehoods yet, but an excellent description of the text and scripture in the bible here. The authors go to great lengths to let the scripture define the scriptures, as it should be done. With the exception of the future prophesies, all in the bible is self explanatory, when we try to impart meaning that is not explicitly spoken of, we divert from the intended meaning. I give credit to those that do not do so, letting the word stand on it's own and merely point you to another scripture where the same thing is repeated in different words. My writing is far from eloquent or possibly even easy to get, despite my best efforts. But these folks not only seem to express the truth I'm given but do so in scripture which I am not yet fluent enough in. I would recommend giving them a once over and see if they shed more light on things than I, as far as scripture definitions etc. I am not affiliated with, nor have I ever met or talked with anyone on or contributing to this site. I was led there by their daily bible verse, I came across on a different platform, and as I do, I went to the origin to find the truth, which is what I found. www.cgg.org/Just checked the beliefs area of this website. Here are few issues I noticed and although I did not check all of the "beliefs" these were sufficient for me Really?! missing the third person of the Godhead is a problem for me. But the false doctrine continues the heresy continues If you are citing this church for doctrinal items, please do not do so here on Unsealed. I hadn't seen this yet, but reading it herein your posts, I see the issue you have with it. It all boils down here, it seems, to a word fight over the Holy Spirit. I don't preach doctrine brother, I only adhere to what is actually written in the bible, as "THAT IS DOCTRINE", I assume we agree here, so I will move on. If not, let me know for I think any and all Christians agree the bible is the ultimate word on everything. scripture, since it is itself scripture. Honestly, this whole thing is a bit childish seeming, but it has gone on generations, so who am I to point out the bibles own words. Ya'll know better than I what they say. Jesus says he will send the spirit after he has ascended, it also references the spirit at the early books as the "angel of God", both are Jesus, both are different, but the same! They wish to look at one side of the coin, you look at the other. They are the same coin brother! The idea that anyone has the hubris to think they alone can know what is god, is folly. God has told us "His" knowledge is beyond us. Out of ALL the bible, people always have to split a hair between two, Even though both are technically right and wrong. Which it the really ignorant part, both sides miss the others truth in order to be the "right" side. Big reveal here ... There is no right side of this, only God's side or the other side. He gave you a way to explain each in the bible, so each IS true! But why can only one be "right"? Do you know God better than He knows himself? If not, I'd suggest taking him at his word and moving on with your lives. You put blocks in front of your brothers path. Part 2 equally a word play issue! But here goes, to the bible, Where in this entire book is there one time that says all required for salvation is obeying/following the law? Cannot find one single verse yet. I see we are supposed to obey it, we get rewarded when we do etc. but yet to se salvation as the reward. However in Jesus own words, you need faith in God, belief in Jesus who's blood paid for your sin. Thats it! So, they are correct on the first part, but not correct on the second. I can understand however their belief, as it is mandated we follow the commandments! The Merciful God just knew we may need a bit of leeway to grasp some things, so salvation was not conditioned on obeying the "law", however obeying the law is the natural consequence of anyone saved, so again a splitting of hair causing blindness to both. Do either of these things jeopardize any side salvation? I would suggest each side realize the other has a point and both agree it won't kill either one to believe either way. Get back to God's word and leave the petty stuff to scholars to argue while the rest are rising with Jesus! Amen. But, if "your" stance is that you are the "right" ones and "nobody else" could be, besides you. Then I'll follow your ruling and no longer speak my/God's truth on your forum. "We" like to be welcome, but are used to not being so. Your world, your rules, for now. Make them wisely and Godly. |
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Post by yardstick on Mar 21, 2021 12:26:49 GMT -6
Just checked the beliefs area of this website. Here are few issues I noticed and although I did not check all of the "beliefs" these were sufficient for me Really?! missing the third person of the Godhead is a problem for me. But the false doctrine continues the heresy continues If you are citing this church for doctrinal items, please do not do so here on Unsealed. , but reading it herein your posts, I see the issue you have with it. It all boils down here, it seems, to a word fight over the Holy Spirit. I don't preach doctrine brother, I only adhere to what is actually written in the bible, as "THAT IS DOCTRINE", I assume we agree here, so I will move on. If not, let me know for I think any and all Christians agree the bible is the ultimate word on everything. scripture, since it is itself scripture. Honestly, this whole thing is a bit childish seeming, but it has gone on generations, so who am I to point out the bibles own words. Ya'll know better than I what they say. Jesus says he will send the spirit after he has ascended, i t also references the spirit at the early books as the "angel of God", both are Jesus, both are different, but the same! They wish to look at one side of the coin, you look at the other. They are the same coin brother! The idea that anyone has the hubris to think they alone can know what is god, is folly. God has told us "His" knowledge is beyond us. Out of ALL the bible, people always have to split a hair between two, Even though both are technically right and wrong. Which it the really ignorant part, both sides miss the others truth in order to be the "right" side. Big reveal here ... There is no right side of this, only God's side or the other side. He gave you a way to explain each in the bible, so each IS true! But why can only one be "right"? Do you know God better than He knows himself? If not, I'd suggest taking him at his word and moving on with your lives. You put blocks in front of your brothers path. Part 2 equally a word play issue! But here goes, to the bible, Where in this entire book is there one time that says all required for salvation is obeying/following the law? Cannot find one single verse yet. I see we are supposed to obey it, we get rewarded when we do etc. but yet to se salvation as the reward. However in Jesus own words, you need faith in God, belief in Jesus who's blood paid for your sin. Thats it! So, they are correct on the first part, but not correct on the second. I can understand however their belief, as it is mandated we follow the commandments! The Merciful God just knew we may need a bit of leeway to grasp some things, so salvation was not conditioned on obeying the "law", however obeying the law is the natural consequence of anyone saved, so again a splitting of hair causing blindness to both. Do either of these things jeopardize any side salvation? I would suggest each side realize the other has a point and both agree it won't kill either one to believe either way. Get back to God's word and leave the petty stuff to scholars to argue while the rest are rising with Jesus! Amen. But, if "your" stance is that you are the "right" ones and "nobody else" could be, besides you. Then I'll follow your ruling and no longer speak my/God's truth on your forum. "We" like to be welcome, but are used to not being so. Your world, your rules, for now. Make them wisely and Godly. See the color-coded responses below: If you had not seen (read: studied) that site's contents and compared it to scripture, why did you post it here without any kind of disclaimer?It appears that you are defending the website's contents, or are at least being an apologist thereof. Since, to paraphrase you, the Bible 'says what it means, and means what it says', and therefore, no 'doctrinal' interpretation is required, I direct your attention to the following passages:
John 16:5-7It is clear from this passage that the first 'Him' referred to is God the Father. It is also clear that the being being (the second Him) sent by Jesus, is not Jesus, but the Holy Spirit of God. Therefore, 1+1+1 = 3, Jesus, God the Father, and The Holy Spirit of God - the Triune God, the Three-in-One. One 'What' and Three 'Who's'. It makes no sense that Jesus would send himself.Yet, you aren't actually pointing out the Bible's own words. What you are doing is making bald statements and assertions without citing the passage of the Bible you are using to to support your position. In addition, as I am certain you should know, those references to a spirit type angel in the OT, are commonly referred to as the pre-incarnate Christ. They are the same in the sense that there is only one Christ, pre-incarnate, or otherwise; and different in that this pre-incarnate Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Refer again to John. If they were the same, the Holy Spirit would serve no purpose, since Jesus could do it all as a spirit entity, rather than as himself. You appear to be advocating for a website that clearly takes a non-orthodox position; and while we allow some non-orthodox views here; namely in the "non-essentials"; we are very clear in our orthodoxy with respect to Rule #1, which you are perilously close to violating. The website you provided purports to present a different god than whom we serve here. To paraphrase: "two sides of the same coin" is tantamount to saying "all religions lead to God"; and is patently false, as stated by Christ himself:John 14:6 No one can serve two masters... We do not need to proclaim that we are the only ones who know who God is. Jesus himself does that for us: John 10:27-28 If we know Jesus, we know God; because Jesus knows God. These are mutually exclusive options. You either believe you have been good enough, or you believe Christ did it all. The former is works, the latter is faith. I have yet to get a positive response from an unbeliever when I ask them "How do you know you have done enough good to be saved?" Inevitably, they must answer "I dont know".
Well I do, because the answer is 'none'.
Jesus did it all.
I did nothing.
I know there is salvation because Jesus said so, and I believe him: "...It is finished..." (John 19:30)
The price is paid.
By Jesus.
Not Me. |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 22, 2021 7:32:01 GMT -6
See the color-coded responses below: Brother, I shall reply in this color, that I might be easier understood alongside the texts in question. If you had not seen (read: studied) that site's contents and compared it to scripture, why did you post it here without any kind of disclaimer?It appears that you are defending the website's contents, or are at least being an apologist thereof. I did respond, saying I never met spoke to or had any affiliation with this site, but that as far as I had read, they had things correct. I had also specified I had inly read enough to convince me that their "beliefs" were right, meaning that the basic truths of the bible were correctly put. I mentioned before, but since I can't expect all who read my words, have read all my previous postings, I have yet to find an "organized church"/sect etc. that has all things correct, but many have truths the others do not. In the whole, you can find the "church", but I've yet to see it in any "one" part. I will however point out that what they are saying and what you do are sort of mutually fulfilling. Not as far away as you may think from one another. I don't "think" their saying you can "earn" your salvation, though it can be read that way, But rather they are describing the very relationship "you" speak of. Jesus is the way, none go but through him. However, if you go through him, he grants you his spirit and you will do as he does, therefore you WILL follow the commandments or choose not to follow God. It can be no other way. I personally see not major conflict here except that both are correct in different pieces of a whole. By the very same token you apply, if you indeed believed in God, and had faith in him, would you not automatically follow his commandments? By doing so, would you not be showing Christ how you trust in him and he find you in good standing to accept his gift? It would seem the err. here is to preclude one or the other as they are both of the same whole. I will refrain from this particular avenue, since it seems will not be accepted as unity, but rather division.
I do apologize however, for pointing out the spec in my brother's eye, while not seeing that doing so, was pointing out my own. |
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As to the "Angel of the Lord", I'd need a passage to go back and see. several angels are mentioned in the bible, Gabriel for one. But all are angels of the Lord. so I'd have to reread what ever passage you specifically refer to to give an informed answer. It is true that none have seen the face of the Lord. We cannot conceive or comprehend God, he may not even have a "face' as we understand the meaning of the word, he may be incorporeal and only appear as we can grasp. That is one of the few things in the bible that I call "God's knowledge" and is known only to him until we shed our flesh form. John is describing Jesus. and I'd have to read the entire scripture to be sure, but If I am recalling the correct one, the one made known is the Holy Spirit. For Jesus whom is on Gods right hand side in heaven gave us the Spirit when he ascended back to the Father. ie- made him known to us. Great catch on the final part! the "Word" is Jesus! He is referred to as that many times in the OT. Also the word Lord is used mostly in describing Jesus, for the translators and indeed the people of the time had a hard time understanding The Father/Son equality relationship thing, so they would use god most times except when talking about Jesus and the Father, then they would use Lord and God, so as not to confuse. Nice observation!
