Unlocking your gifts and understanding God's word/message

Coming to this forum is like walking up to a group of strangers on the street. In rare cases those strangers are followers of Jesus Christ; and such is the case here. So lionofgod think as you write that you are writing to your best friend that you have not seen for 40 years. What have they been doing all this time? I for one pray daily but not at any specific time of the day. Lord Jesus is my friend and at times he shares some little thing with me. However, I do not have information to share like a prophet of old. No, I tend to explore scripture and often find a golden nugget or two. So when you write then consider that I am with you in this world searching for those things that we hope for like; friendship, understanding, peace, love, knowledge, etc. I mention this so that you will know that we are with you; your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Do you work with chiasmi in your studies? Those are linguistic devices that are used by writers to show parallels like for example Shakespeare's "To be, or, not to be" and Kennedy's "It's not what your country can do for you, but,  what you can do for your country" etc. Scripture is full of these chiasmi and they often run several parallels deep. Like for example:

a
    b
        c
            d, and this would be the chiasmus center
        e
    f
g

The parallels for the above type of chiasmus is a,g and then secondly b, f and third is c,e.

Here is Rev. 1:1 as follows:

a) The revelation of Jesus Christ,
    b) which God agave him to show to his servants
       c)  the things that must soon take place.
    d) He made it known by sending his angel
e) to his servant John,

As you can see a) the revelation of Jesus Christ is e) to his servant John.
b) God gave him this revelation to show to his servants and d) he made it known by sending his angel.
Lastly and the central emphasis of the chiasmus is c) that these things are soon to take place.

This is an easy chiasmus and the entire bible is full of this type.

Hope you like this kind of linguistic device.

Thank you sister! this is why I feel led to post here, I was drawn to a video, which as I do with all things explored its origins, leading me here. The chiasms spoke to me instantly and I knew this was meant for me to know, as it helps complete the picture being revealed. I do not intend to come across as anything other than a loving brother, trying to share what the spirit guides me to share, some will see now, some later, some not at all. But the Lord wishes his truths told so those that can benefit and thereby come closer to him are fed. I'm thrilled that there are truth seekers here! I've been crying out to the deaf for some time now, but I'm not meant to be edified, rather to strive to glorify god. So I expect persecution and distrust and etc. God's foretold that to me from the start. But I also know I'm not alone! There are those who are of His church among us, we are few, but the few will rise, the many will fall. God Bless you for the warm welcome!

One church that has pushed for Saturday observance is the Seventh Day Adventists. Also, it is common knowledge that the Jews claim the Sabbath to be from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

One thing that puzzles me is that you seem to support divination; is this correct?

Firstly, I've seen that many religions have "part" truths, but I haven't found any one that puts all together as one. Only in the bible. The jews have misunderstood and observed Sabbath improperly all through scripture. # days AND nights! not parts of days and nights. The bible is clear in what a "day" and night are, 12 hour periods of time, thus 72 hours. Friday to Sunday is not 3 days. Wednesday to Saturday is. besides the romans had Sun-day for worshiping the sun gods, I doubt the Lord would choose that day to honor him. Not observing the Sabbath correctly is something jews have been admonished for from the outset. It's all through the bible. But the bible itself provides a means to divine the truth of it. I found just such evidence on another site yesterday. I will copy and paste it here for you all to decide for each himself/herself. (once I have read more of this site, if it is as it seems, a place where someone has actually understood the bible and how to divine god's word from it, I will obviously pass that along for all to see/share)-I will give it to any that request it at any point, but I will not give it the stamp of approval of the Holy Spirit until i've seen more myself, I wish to help guide to truth, not divide. I'm sure you understand. Here is part of the article which spoke it's truth to me. The little bit of commentary is the authors, not mine. But true all the same.

Since the Bible clearly establishes the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath up to the time of the crucifixion, there can be no biblical authority for Sunday observance unless we find it clearly and plainly stated in one of these eight New Testament passages. We should examine them carefully, honestly, prayerfully.

1. Matthew 28:1: "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb." Matthew wrote these words, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, several years after the New Testament church came into being.

This scripture tells us plainly that three days and three nights after all that was done away had been securely "nailed to the cross," the Sabbath was still the day before the first day of the week—still the seventh day of the week.

One point is here plainly proved. Many tell us that the Sabbath command is merely for "one day in seven"—that it does not have to be the seventh day of the week, but merely the seventh part of time. They argue that Sunday, being one day out of seven, fulfills the command. But this passage states in plain language that, three days after all abolished things had been done away, the Sabbath still existed and that it was the seventh day of the week. But was the day changed later?

2. Mark 16:2: "Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." This first day of the week was, according to verse 1, "when the Sabbath was past." This text, then, proves the same thing as Matthew 28:1. The Sabbath was still the seventh day of the week.

3. Mark 16:9: "Now when He rose [was risen, KJV] early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons." This text, poorly translated, speaks of Jesus' appearance to Mary Magdalene later the same day (see "The Resurrection Was Not on Sunday" and/or "After Three Days" for a better translation).

Nothing here calls the first day of the week the Christian Sabbath. Nothing here calls it "the Lord's Day." Nothing here hallows Sunday or says God made it holy. Nothing here commands us to observe it. Nothing here sets it apart as a memorial of the resurrection, or for any purpose. It contains no command or example of rest on this day—no authority for observing Sunday.

4. Luke 24:1: "Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared." This text reiterates the same event recorded by Matthew and Mark. It also shows that on the first day of the week these women came to do the work of a common weekday, after having rested the Sabbath day "according to the commandment" (Luke 23:56).

The Holy Spirit inspired this statement. God knew the Sabbath was not abolished, and had Luke write this approximately thirty years after the establishing of the New Testament church! God inspired Luke to say that the "rest" these women took on the Sabbath day was "according to the commandment"—a statement that would not be possible had the commandment been abolished.

This text, then, establishes Sunday as a common workday, and that, at the time of its writing, the command to keep the Sabbath had not been abolished.

5. John 20:1: "On the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark. . . ." This, written more than sixty years after the crucifixion, is merely John's version, describing the same visit to the tomb. It confirms the facts above.

6. John 20:19: "Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, 'Peace be with you.'" Let us examine this carefully, for some claim this was a religious service called to celebrate the resurrection.

Notice this is the same first day of the week that followed the Sabbath. It was Jesus' first opportunity to appear to His disciples. For three and a half years, He had been constantly with them, on all days of the week. His meeting with them, of itself, could not establish any day as a Sabbath.

Were they meeting together to celebrate the resurrection, thus establishing Sunday as the Christian Sabbath in honor of the resurrection? The text gives the reason they were together: "for fear of the Jews"! The Jews had just taken, tried, and handed their Master over to the Romans for crucifixion. They were afraid! The doors were shut and probably bolted because of their fear. In addition, they were there because they all lived together in this upper room (Acts 1:13). Finally—and conclusively—they did not assemble to celebrate the resurrection because they did not believe Jesus was risen (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:37, 39, 41).

Nothing in this text calls this day the "Sabbath," the "Lord's Day," or any sacred title. Nothing here sets it apart or makes it holy. Scripture gives no authority here for changing a command of God!

7. Acts 20:7: "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight."

Here, at last, we find a religious meeting on the first day of the week, but it was not a "Sunday meeting," that is, a church service. . Notice, Paul continued his speech until midnight, and verse 8 says, "There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together." It indeed occurred after sunset, before midnight, thus on the first day of the week. This meeting and Paul's preaching—at most, it was what we would call a Bible study today—took place during the hours we now call Saturday night.

However, it is clear from subsequent verses that Paul and his companions treated this first day of the week, beginning at sundown, as a normal workday. Paul's companions sailed around a peninsula from Troas to Assos (verse 13)—a distance of fifty or sixty miles—while Paul, afoot, walked overland more than 19 miles (verses 11, 14). His companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night. Then, at the break of day Sunday morning, he set out to walk from Troas to Assos—a good hard day's work! He would not do this except on a common workday!

Does this text not say, as many claim, that the disciples always held communion every first day of the week? Not at all! This scripture says nothing about anything being done weekly or customarily. It simply relates the events of this one particular first day of the week. The first-century church kept the Lord's Supper once each year on the Passover (I Corinthians 11:24).

That "the disciples came together to break bread" means merely that they gathered to eat a meal. This expression was commonly used to designate a meal in past times (see Luke 24:30; Acts 2:46; 27:35 for further examples of "breaking bread). Scripture interprets it only as eating a meal, not as a Communion service.

8. I Corinthians 16:2: "On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper that there be no collections when I come." Often we see this text printed on the little offering envelopes in the pews of churches, and many preach that this text sets Sunday as the time for taking up the church collection for doing God's work and paying the minister and church expenses.

This verse says nothing of the sort!

Verse 1 tells us what kind of collection is being made: "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also." First, it is a collection—not for the preacher, evangelism, or church expenses—but "for the saints." The members of the church in Jerusalem were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.

Notice that Paul had given similar instruction to other churches. He tells the Romans:

But now I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the saints. For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia [where Corinth is located] to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem. . . . Therefore, when I have performed this and have sealed to them this fruit, I shall go by way of you to Spain. (Romans 15:25-28)

It was not money, but fruit that was being prepared for shipment to the poor saints at Jerusalem! The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other produce that can be stored a long time without spoiling.

In I Corinthians 16:2, does Paul say they should give money at a church service? Not at all! He says, "Let each one of you lay something aside, storing up. . . ." Note this! He is telling them to put something aside for a special use, to store it—at home! Why? Because Paul did not want there be any collecting done when he arrived. He wanted this gift for the Jerusalem church to be ready for shipment.

"And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem. But if it is fitting that I go also, they [more than one] will go with me" (verses 3-4). Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were a tithe or offering for the minister or to spread the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.

Thus, once again, the first day of the week is a workday, a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards, fields, and gardens, and for storing it up. This labor was to be done on the first day as soon as the Sabbath was past!

Upon honest examination, not one of the texts speaking about "the first day of the week" sets it apart as a rest day. Not one makes it holy, calls it the Sabbath or by any other sacred title. In every case, the first day of the week was a common workday. In none of them was there a religious meeting and preaching service being held on the hours we now call Sunday. In none of them can we find a single shred of Bible authority for Sunday observance!   

If by divination you mean the ability to see truth, yes. If it implies an art or any kind of secret knowledge, no. (if you use Jesus/Father/spirit in place of generic word god) See numbers 1,3,4,5,6 and 7 **2, is a thing that I avoid at all costs! 


DIVINE, adjective [Latin , a god.]

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the divine nature; divine perfections.

2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to false gods.

3. Partaking of the nature of God.

Half human, half divine

4. Proceeding from God; as divine judgments.

5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.

A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. Proverbs 16:10.

6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. [Not used.]

7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine worship.

As I am reading through some of this stuff on this thread, a couple of passages come to mind.

Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

And Romans 14
for example

1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him....5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself...13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother...19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

A person may be fully convinced that only Saturday is the day for rest, another may be persuaded that Sunday is the day, we should worship God every day and not cause divisions over things that were commanded in the Law. For Christ came to set us free, to fulfill the Law, to put us under a new covenant, and our rest is in Him.