|
|
Post by mike on Apr 20, 2021 7:07:27 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX Please understand that although this is your position and understanding, it does not equate to being scriptural or doctrinal. Just a few days ago in another we have another member (schooldad3) indicate these are animals that live in the middle east region and they being described for the readers to understand the kingdoms as they are geographically associated with these regions where the animals live. You make interesting points and while possible, they are not absolute. Maybe, maybe not rondonmonson Then perhaps they are not facts! I have been on this site for 4+ years now and what you state is exactly the opposite in my experience here. Maybe other places its not this way, but not true here on Unsealed. Most try to prove the pre-Trib point to the Nth degree, not those holding to other resurrection views that come much later down the line in timing. Please refrain from disparaging remarks towards brothers and sisters who see the resurrection & rapture in a different sequence than you do. Please refrain from insisting on your view of something as right and others as wrong. Please refrain from calling future prophetic events as fact, when in FACT they are not fact until they occur. What you have here is a clear violation of rule #3 of this forum. Refrain from this Natalie Perhaps I refuse to understand this too. I dont exclusively speak of the capital T (Tribulation) as Daniels 70th week. In fact I think this approach is incorrect as the 70th week would mean 7 years, and since (in my experience) most pre-Trib thinkers equate the second half, 3.5 years as capital T (great Trib) there seems to be conflict in the statement. Perhaps you didnt mean it this way, however the other piece of "refusing to understand" is that other people do not hold a pre-trib rapture position as for many it is not scriptural. Please consider that others see this time frame differently than you and respect that the position of "other than pre-Trib" is also a valid point of view.
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Apr 20, 2021 11:02:43 GMT -6
Natalie Perhaps I refuse to understand this too. I dont exclusively speak of the capital T (Tribulation) as Daniels 70th week. In fact I think this approach is incorrect as the 70th week would mean 7 years, and since (in my experience) most pre-Trib thinkers equate the second half, 3.5 years as capital T (great Trib) there seems to be conflict in the statement. Perhaps you didnt mean it this way, however the other piece of "refusing to understand" is that other people do not hold a pre-trib rapture position as for many it is not scriptural. Please consider that others see this time frame differently than you and respect that the position of "other than pre-Trib" is also a valid point of view.
I apologize for if I came across rude or dismissing other positions. The only one I dismiss is the post trib one that says we rapture at the end of the 70th week because that would have the Church going through God's wrath and that's unscriptural.
And I apologize for appearing rude to venge. I was just frustrated because it seemed to me that venge is always saying that pre-trib people dodn't think Christians would go through any tribulation because they don't go through The Tribulation. But that's not what we are saying. There is a distinction because Christians do have tribulations. Yes, those in China, Iran, North Korea etc are going through tribulation. We in the US may very well see an increase in persecution here. But it's small T not big T. Yes, technically only the last 3.5 years is the Great Tribulation, but people have taken it to mean all 7 years. Maybe they need to study it more? That's just one of the reasons why I have gone to saying Daniel's 70th week instead of the Tribulation Period. It's more accurate that way, I think anyway.
|
|
TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
|
Post by TrumpetsTX on May 12, 2021 21:29:35 GMT -6
mike Tribulation vs Great Tribulation
TrumpetsTX: The Church Age ends at the Rapture before the Tribulation begins.
verge: No, that is unbiblical. The rapture happens before the wrath, not tribulation. They are not the same thing.
TrumpetsTX: but Church will not be in the Tribulation
Verge: Unscriptural. The early church during the apostles up to today in various countries has been going through tribulation. We will continue this tribulation as Christ and Paul both point out. We are never saved from tribulation but told to endure it for the Kingdom, the gospel and Christ's sake. We are saved from God's wrath (Orge/Thumos) not tribulation (Thlipsis)
BalfacanTX: There is a big difference between general tribulation (John 16:33) and seven years of Tribulation (Matthew 24:21), the 70th week of Daniel 9:27. It is a weak premise when you confuse the two.
Mike: I see that these things (birth pains) are currently happening and have been for many many years. I also see that many of our brethren are delivered to tribulation and being killed (Lord grant grace to our brothers & sisters in Iran, China, Russia, throughout Africa), that many are falling away after their own itching ears and false prophets are abounding to tickle those ears.
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world (John 16:33). There is one thing we can all agree on. There is tribulation ( thlipsis) in life (Romans 8:35). Small "t" tribulation began with Genesis 3:6. First, Satan and his demons attack and destroy (1 Peter 5:8, Ephesians 6:12). Then Adam and Eve sinned which resulted with the curse of sin with sickness, plagues, death and the grave (Romans 5:12). Abel was the first martyr (Genesis 4:8). Because of the curse, there are natural disasters and all creation suffers (Genesis 3:18, Romans 8:22). The world is in rebellion and hates Jews and Christians because the world hates God (John 15:18-19). Some tribulation comes from other people’s sin (Numbers 14:30). Most trouble comes from consequences of our own sin (Hebrews 12:6). God sends trails to purify us and make us grow (Job 23:9-10). As we endure, we give glory to God (John 9:1-3). Paul praised the church for their patience and faith while dealing with persecution and tribulation against the church (2 Thessalonians 1:4). We glory in suffering because it works patience. (Romans 5:3). God comforts us in tribulation so we can comfort and encourage others (2 Corinthians 1:4). Paul was heavily persecuted but said our trouble and persecution is light affliction that is temporary (2 Corinthians 4:8-10, 17-18). What the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, English, French, Russians, Spanish and Germans did to Israel does not compare to what Antichrist will do to the whole world. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (Matthew 24:21). In the study of prophecy, there is the Great Tribulation ( megas thlipsis) described by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. This is defined by the 70th week of Daniel. In Daniel 9:24, God gave Daniel a prophecy of the redemption and later return of Jesus Christ in a set of seventy sevens of years that equal 490 years. The years are divided into 3 parts: 7 sevens or 49 years to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25), 62 sevens or 434 years for the Messiah cut off (crucified) (Daniel 9:26) and 1 final seven or seven years. Most understand the last seven years as the seven years of the Tribulation. The time is called Jacob’s trouble or Israel’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). Daniel 9:27 describes the 70th week or seven years. The seven years of Tribulation is divided into two halves with three defining events. The Tribulation starts with the covenant. He [Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [seven]. Israel begins with 3½ year of peace and safety (Ezekiel 38:14-15, 16). Then 3½ years of literal Hell on earth begins with the Antichrist rule, Abomination of Desolation (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,5, Matt 24:15), civil war usurping Antichrist’s authority (Daniel 11:40) and the 2nd Beast/False Prophet' authority (Revelation 17:16-17). Toward the end, all nations unite to attack Israel. Seals, trumpets, Antichrist, bowls, Mystery Babylon, Armageddon end at the Second Coming. During the first part of the Tribulation, peace and safety is limited to Israel. The world begins the Tribulation with a capital "T". There is severe persecution of Tribulation Saints (Matthew 24:9, Revelation 6:9-10). The 2nd seal is the red horse of war (Revelation 6:4). The 6th trumpet has a 200 million army by the Euphrates River that kills a third of humanity (~2.5 billion people) (Revelation 9:13-14, 15-16). The 6th trumpet (second woe) ends at the middle of the Tribulation (Revelation 11:14). Despite where we put the Rapture, there is a big difference between tribulation and persecution in our lives (John 16:33) and the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). In those seven years of Great Tribulation, people die of war, famine, sickness, persecution and other causes. Then add all those who Satan deceives with the mark of the Beast as part of judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:32, 46). An estimated over 7 billion people are condemned for eternity. That never happened in human history. Thankfully, there is a remnant of Jewish and Gentile believers who do not take the mark and survive to the end of the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:8-9, Revelation 20:4). Tribulation
| Church Age | Lion/Bear/Leopard Rules | Antichrist Rules | Millennium | | Years | ~1993 Years | 0 1 2 3 | 4 5 6 7 | 1000 Years | | Events |
| Covenant | Abomination Second
of Desolation Coming | Reign of Jesus Christ | | Wars |
| World ------------------->
War III | World ------------> World War IV War V |
|
Noah is a great example. As the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:36-38). Noah and his family went into the ark and God shut the door (Genesis 7:16). It rained forty days and nights as the ark was lifted up above the earth (Genesis 7:17). Since Mt. Everest is ~5.5 miles high, Noah did not go through the flood but ascended above the earth and flood (Hebrews 11:7). Lot did not go through the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah but he fled with the angels right before destruction came (Luke 17:28-29). There were seven days before the rain started (Genesis 7:4, 10). According to Jewish tradition, Teshuvah (Return) is the second forty days of Moses on Mt. Sinai and ends the last ten Days of Awe (Repentance). The Feast of Trumpets is on the 1st of Tishri (Leviticus 23:24-25) and Day of Atonement is the 10th of Tishri (Leviticus 23:27-28). Both are High Sabbath days. According to Jewish culture, they do not know the day of Trumpets until the day before (Matthew 24:36). The 6th month of Elul has 29 or 30 days so witnesses must see the first sliver of the crescent moon in the afternoon sky and report. When the Sanhedrin accepts the testimony of two witnesses, they declare the new month and new year with signal fires. After Babylon captivity, it was difficult to get word from far away and Sabbath rules apply. So people celebrated on the two possible days. Trumpets is one long day. Trumpets is also judgment day as the door and books are opened. Because of God’s mercy, final judgment is delayed until Atonement when the door and books are closed. Next there are seven days of Awe in prayer and repentance for the Day. Atonement is the most important day of the years as the high priest sacrifices a lamb, goat and bull for the sins of Israel and goes into the temple to meet God face to face (Zechariah 12:10). Amazing how the Jewish calendar tells so much about our time and the time to come. See Discussion Feast of Trumpets: Rapture DayNoah had 120 years of warning before the flood and we had 120 years of warning before the Tribulation. Noah had seven days before the rains started and Trumpets is seven days before the Day of Atonement. My understanding is the seven years of Tribulation starts on Atonement (10th of Tishri/September-October, Year 1), Antichrist begins his rule in the spring (10th of Nisan, April, Year 3/Lamb Chosen) and ends on Atonement/Second Coming (10th of Tishri/September-October, End Year 7). Then Jesus Christ begins His reign on Tabernacles (God with us) (15th-21st of Tishri) (Revelation 21:3). Fall Holy Days | Month | Feast | Fulfillment | | Elul 1-Tishri 10 | Teshuvah | End of Church Age/
Tribulation | | Tishri 1-2 | Trumpets | Rapture | | Tishri 3-9 | Days of Awe | Tribulation | | Tishri 10 | Atonement | Second Coming | | Tishri 15-21 | Tabernacles | Reign of Jesus Christ |
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God (Revelation 21:3). Robert Cook
TrumpetsTXwww.21stcenturyrevelation.com |
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on May 13, 2021 7:11:23 GMT -6
If 1 Thess 4; 1 Thess 5; and 2 Thess 2 are actually summaries of Jeremiah 6 and Daniel, then the "gathering together" occurs just before "Israel" is invaded from "the north" (the Assyrian) by the pre-incarnate anti-christ (1st Seal of Rev 6 - white horse conquering).
There seems to be a "gathering together" Pre-Trib, just before the 1st seal of Revelation 6 (Jeremiah 6:1, Zechariah 2:6-7, Habakkuk 3:13-16).
There also seems to be another "gathering together" which occurs just before God's wrath (Psalm 18:16-17).
It seems to me that both Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath are Biblical.
Isaiah 13 could either be the 1st seal rider of Revelation, or it could be God's Wrath. Or both at the same time.
Isaiah 12:3 thus could be for both cases, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath.
These gatherings seem to be harvests.
|
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on May 13, 2021 7:27:26 GMT -6
One other point of curiosity.
Job 5
19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
20 In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
21 Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
22 At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
23 For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
24 And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
All throughout the scripture, you see this repeating pattern of:
famine, sword, plagues, beasts of the earth. Revelation 6 seals. Deuteronomy 28:15-68.
Here in Job, it seems these calamities will not harm "thou", just like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego in the fire in Daniel.
I think Job is talking about the Revelation 6 seals. And at the same time 6000 years and the 7000th year.
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on May 14, 2021 9:57:24 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX, I do not understand the purpose of your last posting. Is it a repost of a previous posting? Think of the Book of Revelation in a scientific manner, where there are two halves of the book (Ch. 1-11, and Ch. 12-22). Secondly, that the first 3 chapters and last 3 chapters are an introduction and conclusion such that the vision portion of the two halves of the book, pertaining to the tribulation era, is Chapters 4-11 and 12-19. I mean, after all, is not the Book of Revelation about the 7 years of tribulation. So, if we set aside the 6 chapters that do not speak about the events of the tribulation era, then so much the easier to focus upon the applicable information contained within the book; Chapters 4-11 and 12-19. Next, let's set aside the repeating information contained in Chapters 12-19. I mean, why expand upon the 1st half of the book with the 2nd half of the book until the 1st half of the book is fully explored and understood, right? So, this narrows the scope of exploration to Chapters 4-11, which by the way is perhaps the easiest way to think of the book. That the entire perimeters of the 7 year tribulation is contained in Chapters 4-11. Next let's consider that there are three parts to Chapters 4-11 as follows: 4-5, introduction 6-8, seals 8-11, trumpets And, since the trumpets are actions of God then it is reasonable to consider that the seals are the actions of man. 4-5, introduction 6-8, seals that are the actions of man 8-11, trumpets that are the actions of God I guess the very act of Jesus opening the seals is really Jesus allowing the bad guys to do their evil works. Although, at the 7th seal the trumpets begin; but, there is that space of time as noted in Rev. 8:1-2. So what really happens there that ends it all; where the Savior puts his foot down. Could it be there, that the Abomination of Desolation take place; just a thought? And back to Chapter 4-5 that are the opening volley, that come as a result of Jesus paying his sacrifice. Are we to understand 1) that this all began 2,000 years ago; or, 2) that the stage was set 2,000 years ago to begin here in the last days. Chapter 6 seems to suggest that the seals are in quick succession and that the second scenario wherein 2) the stage was set 2,000 years ago is the correct answer. So I do not understand your conclusions that are so absolute with regard to the Book of Revelation; to the point of reposting a previous post that is.
|
|
TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
|
Post by TrumpetsTX on Jun 22, 2021 20:02:36 GMT -6
Mike wrote:
The Christian Church that believes God will not break his promises to Israel also believes the nation of Israel changed how the Church understands prophecy. It is the best proof that we are near the end of the Church Age.
Though I am not a proponent of what we call replacement theology, I do struggle with how some separate Israel from the church in some contexts but not others. For example one of the many scriptures cited about Israel is that they will posses the land forever (Gen 12:7, 13:15, 2 Chron 20:7...) but what do we do with scriptures like: Lev 3:17-18, Numbers 18:8, 2 Chron 2:4, Num 15:14-15, Ex 12:14
There are other permanent things to be done forever, yet when it comes to Israel I often see the people of the church say, the land is Israel's forever because the Lord said so. I tend to agree. The land is theirs forever, but we do not include these other ordinances in our forever thinking. Do you have insight to offer on this?
(I realize Christ fulfilled many of the ordinances, although not all of them)Mike Israel and the ChurchIn Christ, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile (Romans 10:12-13, Galatians 3:28). Abraham was saved through faith and we receive that same salvation through faith (Galatians 3:6, 14). However, God has a plan for Israel and a different plan for the Church. Understanding Jewish culture and how it applies to understand prophecy. God chose Abraham as the father of the Hebrews to give the Savor, Jesus Christ, His Word and made them examples for us (Deuteronomy 14:2, Galatians 3:13-14, 2 Peter 1:20-21) Because of Israel’s rejection of their Messiah, God used a remnant of Jews to start the Church whose purpose is to witness to Jews and Gentiles and make disciples (Matthew 28:18-19, Acts 1:8). Gentiles were required to not eat meat offered to idols, strangled, blood or sexual sins (Acts 15:29). But they did not follow circumcision, dietary laws and holy day (Galatians 5:6, Colossians 2:16). We follow the Law to love God with all and love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-39). However, some Scriptures lose its meaning without an understanding of the Hebrew culture. In prophecy and the Tribulation, there is still a different plan between Israel and the Church. Israel which was dead as a people came back to their land and back as a thriving nation (Ezekiel 37:11-12, Isaiah 66:8). The difference between Israel and the Church is Christ and Holy Spirit (Romans 9:6-8, 8:11). The Jews wait for a temple and the Messiah while Christians are one with God, the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19). When God completes His plan for the Church (Romans 11:25), Christians are caught up before disaster comes (1 Thessalonians 4:17). God promised to bring Israel back spiritually with a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26-28). He grafts back Israel to the olive tree (Romans 11:23-24, 25). First God calls 2 plus 144,000 spirit filled Jewish witnesses to proclaim the Gospel (Revelation 7:3-4, 11:3). God brings Israel back to Himself starting with what they know: animal sacrifices and temple worship (Revelation 11:1-2). Then 3½ years later, Antichrist takes away temple sacrifices (Daniel 9:27). After seeing the abomination of desolation, those in Jerusalem must flee because war begins (Matthew 24:15-16). Jesus returns on the 10th of Tishri (Atonement) which is the day of Israel’s national redemption (Zechariah 12:9-10, 13:9). In the Millennium, Jerusalem is the world’s capital with a fourth temple as animal sacrifices and burnt offerings continue to remind people of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 56:7-8). God fulfills his promises of land. In the New Earth, there is the New Jerusalem with perfect fellowship with God but no sin, death, grave or temple (Revelation 21:4-5, 22). There is a reference to healing the nations but no specific Israeli land (Revelation 22:2). Sacrifices are replaced with worship of God (Matthew 24:35, 2 Peter 3:13). Knowing more of Jewish culture and differences between God’s plan for Jews and Gentiles helps us understand end time prophecy. Robert Cook TrumpetsTX www.21stcenturyrevelation.com
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Jun 22, 2021 22:30:18 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX , You said: Can you provide scripture proving that the 144,000 are Jewish, because Rev. 7:5 states that only 12,000 are from the tribe of Judah? I do not understand why biblical scholars are so loose with definitions. Also, you said: Rev. 21:22 states that in the millennium Christ is the temple.
|
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Jun 23, 2021 9:33:37 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX , please consider Isa. 56 with me since that is the chapter you quoted to support your statement: The chapter is configured with 12 verses the center of which is 6, or 7, or both. Isa. 56:1, keep judgment and do justice, my righteousness to be revealed Isa. 56:2, blessed are they that keeps from doing evil
Isa. 56:3, Those who join the Savior shall not say that the Lord is aloof
Isa. 56:4, The Lord says to choose the things that please him
Isa. 56:5, Those who come to Christ will he give an everlasting name better than sons and daughters
Isa. 56:6, Those who join themselves to the Lord
Isa. 56:7, These will I bring to my holy mountain, their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted
Isa. 56:8, the Lord gathers the outcasts and will yet gather others that are not of the family linage
Isa. 56:9, the wicked that are the beasts of the field come to devour
Isa. 56:10, the watchmen are blind and ignorant, dumb dogs unable to bark, unable to teach Christ's doctrine
Isa. 56:11, the greedy dogs never have enough, every one to his personal gain
Isa. 56:12, come ye they say for tomorrow is much more abundance Please notice that the center of the chapter is about those coming to the Lord will be accepted. The chapter contrast from the beginning to the ending is that those who come to the Lord, even though they may not be of a specific family, are wanted. Whereas, the wicked leaders only want their types of people to drink their power with and this has a link to Isa. 28. Verse 7 has nothing to do with animal sacrifices. I did not realize just how absolutely beautiful Verse 7 is until now: "these (speaking of the strangers that are not of the family, not sons or daughters) I will bring to my holy mountain (nation / kingdom), and make them (these strangers to the family) joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings (prayers and supplications) and their sacrifices (to become followers of Christ, etc.) will be accepted (honored) on my altar (my atonement); for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples (those of every family and background).” The Savior is saying that the family we are born into is not the limiting factor to salvation. This destroys so many false doctrines that exist in groups and churches today. It is simply a matter of accepting the Savior and becoming one of his, and that is the key to salvation.
|
|
TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
|
Post by TrumpetsTX on Jul 14, 2021 22:04:29 GMT -6
rondonmonson The Seals are NOT ACTIONABLE, they are locks on a door so to speak. Why would you be able to read a kings message to his front line if it has 3 Wax Seals on it and only two have been broken? The whole SEAL THING means nothing can be read until every wax seal is broken, that is the intended message being sent by Jesus, the #7 means COMPLETENESS thus God completely has the Judgment scrolls LOCKED DOWN until all 7 Seals are unlocked or broken.
The Seals are Jesus Prophesying just before the Judgments are blown:
1.) Jesus opens the First Seal and Prophesies about a coming Conqueror who will conquer many over a 42-month period of time. (White Horse/Anti-Christ/Beast)
Revelation Is in Order but Not Sequential Order
In Revelation 5, God the Father give Jesus Christ the title deed of earth and rule over humanity. Because of His death, burial, and resurrection for the redemption of humanity, He is worthy (Revelation 5:9). Zechariah 1:8-9, 10-12 describes horses already on earth after seventy years of captivity in Babylon but they are not commanded to judge the enemies of Judah yet. In Revelation 6, the seven seals are opened one at a time. It is not like a door with seven locks. A scroll is a book. Jesus opens the first seal, reads the first chapter, give a bow and crown and commands the rider of the white horse to conquer (Revelation 6:1-2). Jesus opens the second seal, reads the second chapter, gives a sword and commands the rider of the red horse to take peace and make war (Revelation 6:3-4). Jesus opens the third seal, reads the third chapter, commands the ride of the black horse to trade wheat, barley, oil and wine with a pair of scales (Revelation 6:5-6). A day’s wage for a day’s food but no famine (Matthew 20:1-2, 2 Kings 6:24-25). Jesus opens the fourth seal, reads the fourth chapter, gives the rider of the green horse of Death power to rule a quarter of the earth with sword, hunger, death and beasts of the earth (Revelation 6:7-8). The first four seals are opened one at a time and each rider of the horses is given separate instructions to judge the earth. It is important to understand color of the horses. Colors are white, red, black and green. The New Testament word chloros is used four times. Three times it is translated green grass or trees but not translated green horse. Look at a world map and there is a green false religion of death that rules a quarter of the earth (~1.9 billion) today. The horses are conflicting world views clearly seen at the end of the Church Age. The white horse of conquest is apostasy in Catholic and Protestant churches. The red horse of war is communism. The black horse of trade is capitalism. The green horse of death is Islam. Four horses have been fighting for most of the Church Age. In Revelation 13, Antichrist rules the Beast for 3½ years and merges four into three: political, religious and economic powers that control the people.  Colors: Purple-Pink-Blue - Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant), Greens - Islam (Sunni, Shi’ite, Other), Orange - Hinduism, Orange-Yellow-Brown - Buddhism, Red - Judaism, Black - Nature Religions, Gray – Other, Stripes – Mix  Four Horses on the Run1) Apostasy: Central Africa, Latin America, 2) Communism: China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela Vietnam, 3) Capitalism: Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea, India, United States, 4) Islam: Middle East, North Africa, Indonesia, 5) Mixed: European Union, 6) Non-aligned nations Many say Revelation (seals->trumpets->bowls) is sequential and occur in a 7 year period (Revelation 1:19) but the same commentaries say the Beasts, bowls, Mystery Babylon, Armageddon overlap. Like other parts of the Bible, it was written in an eastern chiastic literary structure (ABCDEEDBCA). Only the 6th trumpet and 7th bow have a date (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 16:17). When the 7th trumpet is compete, God’s plan is accomplished (Revelation 10:7). Revelation is like DNA, tornados and solar system. Planets revolve in a spiral with various distances from the sun but the sun is also moving toward Andromeda through the Milky Way moving with other galaxies clusters. Church periods, seals, bitter scroll, woman, child and dragon signs, Beasts rule, bowls, Mystery Babylon, Armageddon spiral toward the end of human rule with various starting points and durations. Four horses are on the run today before Daniel’s 70th week with seals 5, 6 and 7 occurring within the 70th week ending at the Second Coming. Revelation looks like a spiral with overlapping subjects. We know the Beasts rules 3½ years and end at the Second Coming (Revelation 13:5). Bowls, Mystery Babylon and Armageddon start after the reign of Antichrist and end at the Second Coming. We saw the sign of the woman and child in September 2017 (Revelation 12:1-2) with the sign of the dragon and meteor shower in December 2020 (Revelation 12:3-4). The woman hides from the dragon 3½ years until the Second Coming (Revelation 12:6). The 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl along with Ezekiel 38:19-20, 22 are all at the Second Coming tied together by lightning, thunder, earthquakes, great hail, mountains and islands move. 7th Seal: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound (Revelation 8:1-6) 7th Trumpet: The seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:15, 19). 7th Bowl: The seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Revelation 16:17-18, 20-21). Revelation SpiralChurches, Seals, 144,000, Trumpets, Bitter Scroll, Woman & Child, Dragon & Beasts, Bowls, Mystery Babylon, Armageddon, Second Coming Since I am not a prophet, it is easier understanding history than predict the future. In Revelation 2-3, there were seven literal churches. Those churches describes seven periods of the Church Age that starts at Pentecost and ends at the Rapture. In 313 AD, Constantine proclaimed religious toleration in the Roman Empire. By 380, Christianity was the official religion as church and state merge and started on its way to apostasy. In 862, Russia was founded. By 1462, Ivan the Great tripled the size of the Russian Empire. In 1848, Karl Marx wrote Communist Manifesto. By 1917, Vladimir Lenin ruled the Russia bear and in 1949, Mao Zedong ruled China. In 927, Athelstan was the first king of England. In 1588, the British lion defeated the Spanish Armada and the empire grew to control a quarter of earth. After World War II, the United States eagle became the economic superpower. In 610, Mohammed founded Islam that spread to Spain by 711 and today controls a quarter of the world's population. If seven church periods last about 1993 years and seven seals last about 1650 years, then seven trumpets last 120 years and are so much more amazing. Because Chernobyl is Wormwood and Saddam is Destroyer, then five trumpets are World War I (Kadesh Barnea, Hanukkah), World War II ( Teshuvah), Cold War ( Unleavened Bread), Iraq War I (Kadesh Barnea, Purim) and Iraq War II ( Purim). Trumpet 6 (~Kadesh Barnea, Unleavened Bread) is a huge army that crosses the Euphrates that ends right after Antichrist coronation (Revelation 9:13-14, 15-16, 11:14). Trumpet 7 is the end of Armageddon at the Second Coming (Atonement) (Revelation 16:17-18, 20-21). All seven trumpets show the fingerprints of God as many events occur on Jewish holy Days and follow God’s plan to redeem Israel. I still have question and don’t have all the answers but Revelation tells us that God is at work during our time even before the last seven years. Revelation Topics – Spiral to the Second Coming| Begin | End | Duration | Event | | ~30 AD | Rapture | ~1993 Years | Church Periods | | 313-380 | Second Coming | ~1650 Years | Seals | | 1914 | Second Coming | 120 Years | Trumpets | | After 2020 | Second Coming | 7 Years | Tribulation (Bitter Scroll) | | 2017 | Second Coming | ~11-16 Years | Woman, Child, Dragon | Year 3, Month 6
| Second Coming | 3½ Years
| Beast, 2nd Beast | | > Year 3, Month 6 | Second Coming | < 3½ Years | Bowls | | > Year 3, Month 6 | Second Coming | < 3½ Years
| Mystery Babylon | | Year 6, Month 6 | Second Coming | ~6 Months | Armageddon | | Year 6001 AM | 1000 Years | 1000 Years | Millennium | | Year 7001 AM | No End | Eternity | New Heaven & Earth |
Since your comment was in March, there are a few more parts added to the main article. There is more information about the seals, trumpets and Jewish holy days. 21st Century Revelation View
Part 1: Bible Prophecy: 7 Days, 7000 Years Part 2: Revelation Views Part 3: Daniel’s Dream (Lion, Eagle, Bear, Leopard) Part 4: Seven Seals: Four Horses on the Run Part 5: Seven Trumpets & Seven Wars Part 6: God’s Plan & Our Time Part 7: August - Fall Feast Days Part 8: September - World War III Part 9: October - World War IV Part 10: November - World War V Robert Cook TrumpetsTX 21stcenturyrevelation.com |
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Jul 15, 2021 0:17:47 GMT -6
I would like to mention that the seals appear to have two things that have taken place. 1) It seems that when the Savior paid the price of sin then the seals were opened to him (Rev. 5:5). That, what ever was sealed prior to his atonement, was now unsealed when he paid with his life (Rev. 5:6). In fact, it was such a big deal that John cried when he realized that that event could not take place (Rev. 5:4). And naturally, that event is the resurrection; so the seals are really about the resurrection. Thus, Jesus died on the cross and the resurrection of mankind as represented by the scroll was now available to him. From this it is reasonable that the scroll represents things leading up to mankind's resurrection that were know to God and Jesus and were then shown to the angel to show John (Rev. 1:1). John was then tasked with explaining those events to us. 2) John explains in Rev. 6:1, in terms that we can understand, that the first event leading to mankind's resurrection is when the Savior opened, past tense, the 1st seal. John proceeds to explain through all the subsequent seals that Jesus has in fact already opened each of the seven seals. In other words, John is seeing the resurrection of man through the eyes of God that it has already happened. So, at each seal John states that when the Lamb opened a seal then such and such event took place. And where did these events take place? At the atonement. So John is seeing the events leading to mankind's resurrection as seen through the eyes of the Savior after he died on the Cross. Can you imagine how he must have felt to have resurrected mankind by giving his life for them. To him is was a done deal. Like, he is on the cross and knows that he has resurrected them by paying with is life for their sins. The feeling of victory must have been awesome. TrumpetsTX , I love your work.  |
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on Jul 15, 2021 9:01:36 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX, Where or how do you get 3 world wars within the 7 year timespan? I think you're correct, but I'd like to see your notes on how you understand it.
|
|
TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
|
Post by TrumpetsTX on Jul 20, 2021 20:17:45 GMT -6
The Feast of Trumpets: Rapture Dayrondonmonson: I also mentioned in one point about Matthew 24. The writer links it to the rapture and I said, Pre-TB believes that Matthew 24 is for the Jews. That is a correct statement. Therefore, how can he use anything in that chapter for a rapture if he is Pre-TB? We cannot cherry pick scripture and then turn and say, the rest is for the Jews. Either it is or it isnt. If a theory upholds that it is, I expect anyone believing in that theory to not use anything in that chapter.
That includes: 1 left 1 taken
That includes: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
That includes: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father onlyGentiles know redemption. Jesus Chris was crucified, buried and rose again for our sins. But we lack the knowledge of Jewish culture. The Old Testament does not say much about the rapture although there are types (Enoch, Noah, Lot, Elijah). It is a mystery revealed in the New Testament (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). But Jews know how to keep the holy days required by the Law of Moses. One short video shows a few of the hundred shofar blasts on the Feast of Trumpets. It helps to understand Jewish culture to understand the Bible. Watch for the last trump called Tekiah Gedolah. No One Knows the Day Except the JewsFeast of Trumpets – Synagogue Service (2:54) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall you have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. You shall do no servile work therein: but you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord (Leviticus 23:24-25). The Feast of Trumpets is the only holy day of the seven on the first day of the month. Since months are 29 or 30 days, no one knows the day the new month starts until two witnesses see the crescent new moon and testify. Then the Sanhedrin proclaims the new month and set beacon fires throughout Israel. Since the civil new year is a High Sabbath, no work is allowed by penalty of death (Numbers 15:32, 35-36). By the Babylon captivity, Jews made both days Trumpets because Jews far away could not watch and see beacon fires from Jerusalem. Trumpets is a part of Teshuvah, forty days to repent in preparation for the Day of Atonement (Exodus 34:1, 28). The rapture day points back to Trumpets in Leviticus 23. Matthew 24:36 is three Jewish idioms. Jesus tells us “no one knows the day or hour” which refers to Trumpets, “not the angels” which refers to Satan and the demons and “not the son but the father” which refers to the Jewish wedding tradition of the groom coming to surprise his bride at night. On Firstfruits, Jesus was resurrected in secret like our Trumpets/Rapture but ascended in public like Atonement/Second Coming. In Matthew 24-25, Jesus is telling the Jews the end of the age. Keep watch so when you see the day no one knows (Trumpets) and 3½ years later, the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15) flee because war is coming. After the Great Trumpet (Atonement) (Matthew 24:30), you are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb (Jesus) and his bride (Church) (Matthew 22:1-3, 8-10, Matthew 25:1-4). Every Jewish boy was required to memorize the five books of the Torah (Genesis-Deuteronomy). Jesus and Paul refer to Leviticus 23 which every Jew knows. The Feast of Trumpets: Rapture DayUnsealed Discussion: Rapture - The Feast of Trumpets: Rapture DayShofar for Jewish Holy DaysFirst Trump - Pentecost (Exodus 19:19) Last Trump – Trumpets/Rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) Great Trump – Atonement/Second Coming (Matthew 24:31) When we understand Trumpets and Atonement, we understand the Rapture and Second Coming. On Unsealed.org, Gary wrote a great article, Jesus Is On the Way, June 22, 2021 Jesus Is on the WayGary: For those of us watching for Jesus’ appearing, what confuses us the most about the ad infinitum repeat of “no one knows the day or hour” (Mt. 24:36; Mk. 13:32) as an argument against actually, practically watching, is why so many Christians base their entire theory of eschatology on just two verses when there are literally dozens of other Scriptures that paint a different picture. And the verse itself is taken out of context, possibly even mistranslated, and interpreted in such a way that denies the full deity of Jesus Christ.Gary: Thirdly, if #1 was the correct context, “no one knows the day or hour” may have been an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets. Of the seven major feasts of the Lord (Lev. 23), the Feast of Trumpets is the only divine appointment that begins on the new moon. While the case for this being an actual Jewish idiom is not unquestionably established, the logic behind it is pretty sound. The first sighting of the waxing crescent of the moon by two witnesses began the Feast of Trumpets. The sighting cannot be perfectly predicted because of atmospheric conditions and so Yom Teruah (the Feast of Trumpets / Day of Shouting) can begin on either of two days, which is why the Jews celebrate what is supposed to be “the first day of the seventh month” (Lev. 23:23-25) over a two-day period because it is “the day no one knows the day or hour.”Jewish Holy Days Fulfilled by Jesus Christ – Leviticus 23 1. Passover - Crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2. Unleavened Bread - Burial 3. Firstfruits - Resurrection 4. Weeks/Pentecost - Law and Holy Spirit Given 5. Trumpets - Rapture 6. Atonement - Second Coming 7. Tabernacles - Millennium (God with Us) Robert Cook TrumpetsTX www.21stcenturyrevelation.com
|
|
servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
|
Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 20:51:51 GMT -6
Lev 3:17 This is a permanent statute for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood.
Lev 6:18 All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy.
Num 18:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
2Chron 2:4, Num 15:14-15, Ex 12:14
There are other permanent things to be done forever, yet when it comes to Israel I often see the people of the church say, the land is Israel's forever because the Lord said so. I tend to agree. The land is theirs forever, but we do not include these other ordinances in our forever thinking. Do you have insight to offer on this? (I realize Christ fulfilled many of the ordinances, although not all of them) Just a quick note about the above question, though not addressed to me, I do have an answer of sorts. Christ brought the law "to fullness", which is a more accurate translation that "fulfilled it". Due mostly to the fact that english is such a bad language to use for biblical studies. But it is all most of us know, myself included. So we use what we have. But to the point, all ordinances and etc. are included within "the Law". The way He brought them to fullness is He taught us to look at them in a spiritual, as opposed to, (or including depending on how you see it) literal, fleshly way. He uses examples in the Beatitudes and a couple other places. Paul also does this in the example of the oxen, where he says God really doesn't care about the ox, but cares about us. Though we may not be able to understand all the Law in that way yet, it is clear that the old way of understanding is not complete without seeing it in a new way. If I were sure I understood fully the new way to see it all, I'd share it. But I do know we are at least supposed to try to see it, and try to not see the old way. This was the problem the Pharisees had, they were unable to see beyond the old way. Hope this helped some and didn't just confuse more. Be blessed |
|
servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
|
Post by servantofthelord on Jul 21, 2021 21:07:08 GMT -6
I apologize for if I came across rude or dismissing other positions. The only one I dismiss is the post trib one that says we rapture at the end of the 70th week because that would have the Church going through God's wrath and that's unscriptural.
Please take this in a non argumentative way. But I believe scripture says we are not destined for God's wrath, and/or will not be the recipient of this wrath. Which is not the same as saying we don't see it or that we don't experience others receiving it. As an example, if a man beats another man in his wrath, you can be standing there watching the wrath happen, but not be having his wrath put on you. I'm just going from memory here, so if there is a specific scripture that says we are actually in heaven, or are somewhere else during this, rather than an indication of it, I'm happy to be corrected.
And I apologize for appearing rude to venge. I was just frustrated because it seemed to me that venge is always saying that pre-trib people dodn't think Christians would go through any tribulation because they don't go through The Tribulation. But that's not what we are saying. There is a distinction because Christians do have tribulations. Yes, those in China, Iran, North Korea etc are going through tribulation. We in the US may very well see an increase in persecution here. But it's small T not big T. Yes, technically only the last 3.5 years is the Great Tribulation, but people have taken it to mean all 7 years. Maybe they need to study it more? That's just one of the reasons why I have gone to saying Daniel's 70th week instead of the Tribulation Period. It's more accurate that way, I think anyway.
A question, since you see tribulation as different things. I know there is a distinction between tribulation and "the great tribulation", scripturally. But is there a verse or verses that specify this "great tribulation is strictly speaking, a 3.5 year period, as opposed to an event or events? Or is this simply a commonly accepted interpretation?
|
|
