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Post by venge on Mar 10, 2021 19:07:22 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX , No, that is unbiblical. The rapture happens before the wrath, not tribulation. They are not the same thing. Unscriptural. The early church during the apostles up to today in various countries has been going through tribulation. We will continue this tribulation as Christ and Paul both point out. We are never saved from tribulation but told to endure it for the Kingdom, the gospel and Christ's sake. We are saved from God's wrath (Orge/Thumos) not tribulation (Thlipsis) I feel like you continually attack the pre-trib rapture. You also refuse to understand that when someone talks of the Tribulation with a capital T they are speaking of Daniel's 70th week. No one disagrees with you that the church will go through tribulation - lower case t. The pre-trib (aka pre-70th week) view is Biblical and Scriptural, and you insult many people with these comments. I am not attacking the Pre-TB theory itself Natalie , I specifically raised valid points that conflict with the Bible (nor am I trying to attack others). If you use the word Tribulation, with a capital T or a lower case..it is still "thlipsis". Thlipsis is never wrath so it is impossible and not scriptural to say we rapture before any tribulation regardless if its a capital T. Secondly, Daniels week is never said to be 7 years of wrath or tribulation. This is another fallacy that has been spawned in Churches and religious forums. The fact is, Daniel mentions 7 years. It is never said the first 3.5 years is "thlipsis" or "Orge". Only till we see the middle of the week where the man of sin sit in the temple, the removal of the daily and the AoD setup do we find that last 3.5 years houses a time of trouble. And in that 3.5 years, we are not told if its the entire 3.5 years. But, I will not complain to those that say the last 3.5 are bad times. We can agree that there will be problems then, but there is absolutely no mention of that in the first 3.5 years nor do we get that idea from Daniel 11 that talks about the times BEFORE the man of sin sets up the AoD. The view is a theory that not everyone holds to and If everyone thought it were 100% sound, we wouldnt find issues within its understanding. Example: Pre-TB says the seals are all wrath. Please, prove that to me. Because wrath doesnt show till the 6th seal is opened. It isnt found in Rev 4, 5 or the first 5 seals into Ch. 6. And the 5th seal also proves God's wrath isnt there yet. Christ said we'd receive the resurrection in the world to come, at the last day. Is that world in this age (Church age)? In the age that tribulation or wrath comes...or is it the world to come ie. his Kingdom? is that last day when 7 years remain? This is a forum to talk about those things. When someone makes a statement like "the tribulation last 7 years", and that is unscriptural, I will point it out. Pre-TB is usually ther one theory that holds to that idea so yes, Pre-TB gets more blame for it. But I am not trying to attack Pre-TB, rather the incorrect things used to support any ideas (regardless of whose theories they are). EDIT: If you disagree with my questions, let us find the answers then. You may use the word 70th week, but others still call it tribulation. If its not tribulation, dont call it that. Call it 7 years of wrath. If its wrath than explain how it is wrath and where we find that in scripture. If we cannot do that, we shouldnt say those things as they cause confusion. Let me repost my words: This is true. I dont know of anyone that would disagree. We are saved from wrath, not tribulation. Each word is different and its definition are different. This is also a well known fact. This isnt something against any theory but scriptural, historical and current. I also mentioned in one point about Matthew 24. The writer links it to the rapture and I said, Pre-TB believes that Mattehw 24 is for the Jews. That is a correct statement. Therefore, how can he use anything in that chapter for a rapture if he is Pre-TB? We cannot cherry pick scripture and then turn and say, the rest is for the Jews. Either it is or it isnt. If a theory upholds that it is, I expect anyone believing in that theory to not use anything in that chapter. That includes: 1 left 1 taken That includes: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. That includes: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only And the rest of that Chapter. |
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Post by boraddict on Mar 10, 2021 19:21:00 GMT -6
I am in my 4th year of study here at Unsealed; what kind of degree do I get? When do I hit the Doctorate level?
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Apr 7, 2021 20:00:51 GMT -6
venge TrumpetsTX: The Church Age ends at the Rapture before the Tribulation begins.
verge: No, that is unbiblical. The rapture happens before the wrath, not tribulation. They are not the same thing.
TrumpetsTX: but Church will not be in the Tribulation
Verge: Unscriptural. The early church during the apostles up to today in various countries has been going through tribulation. We will continue this tribulation as Christ and Paul both point out. We are never saved from tribulation but told to endure it for the Kingdom, the gospel and Christ's sake. We are saved from God's wrath (Orge/Thumos) not tribulation (Thlipsis)
There is a big difference between general tribulation ( John 16:33) and seven years of Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21), the 70th week of Daniel 9:27. It is a weak premise when you confuse the two. The faithful church of Philadelphia does not go through the hour of trial but the world does ( Revelation 3:10). What is the purpose of the Tribulation: to punish the redeemed or redeem the lost and judge the rebellious? The Tribulation is called Jacob’s (or Israel’s) trouble ( Jeremiah 30:6-7). God will refine Israel ( Zechariah 13:9). No need for God to seal 144,000 Jews if there are hundreds of millions of Spirit filled Christians still here ( Revelation 7:4). The pattern of prophecy is found in the Jewish engagement and wedding traditions. Jacob and Samson wedding lasts a week ( Genesis 29:26-27, Judges 14:2, 12). The seven Jewish feasts are prophecy of redemption by and return of God ( Leviticus 23:24). In the Christian Church, there are five main interpretations of when the Rapture occurs: pre-tribulation, partial-rapture, mid-tribulation, pre-wrath, post-tribulation. My opinion is there is a pre-tribulation Rapture and your opinion is a pre-wrath Rapture. Each view has Scripture and followers. The first half of the Tribulation is peaceful for Israel but the 6th trumpet war kills a third of humanity ( Revelation 9:14-15, 16). Since humanity has found a great way to kill people, my educated guess is the 6th trumpet is nuclear World War III. That catastrophic event will open the way for the Antichrist to rule the world. In prophecy, there is too much time arguing and taking away from topics that would encourage other Christians. It is not a salvation issue and causes a large amount of arguments, fights, contention which leads to more confusion ( James 4:1). After describing the Rapture, Paul gave us a commandment: “Comfort one another with these words” ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18). Unsealed gives us an opportunity for a discussion board not an argument board. It is based on sharing our understanding with Scripture. This is a place for a conversation and discussion. We are all here to know God, share our views, learn from others, speak the truth in love. “I’m right and you’re wrong” is not a valid argument. Humility is the key ( James 4:6, 10, Micah 6:8). Those that seek the truth will find it ( Matthew 7:7-8). BalfacanTX: China has an army on the move toward the Euphrates River (Revelation 9:14-16).
verge: We don't know if it is referencing China. That is ones opinion and not fact based.
verge: I understand you believe you have a 21st century View of Revelation, as for me, I prefer to have a 2,000+ year old view of it so that I may see it and understand it as the prophets would understand it.
Prophets were given prophecy but most of the time did not understand the prophecy given. Prophecy was closed and sealed book ( Daniel 12:4). They wanted to see and understand what we see ( Matthew 13:16-17). Even the disciples did not begin to understand the prophecies of Jesus until after the resurrection. We have a more sure word of prophecy ( Hebrews 1:1-2, 2 Peter 1:19). Add to the prophets, Christ’s first coming, the completed Word, the Spirt to teach all things ( John 14:26). Jesus said to understand the signs of the times ( Matthew 16:3). As secondary sources, add history of the Church Age, the last hundred years and understanding nations and globalization right before the Tribulation. We can understand the mystery of the resurrection ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Unlike other doctrines of the Bible, End Time prophecy is changing with time. When one prophecy is unsealed, fulfilled and revealed, other prophecies are better understood. Israel is a super sign. Israel celebrates their 73 years while fulfilling plenty of prophecy ( Isaiah 66:8, Ezekiel 37:11-12, Ezekiel 36:8-9, 10-11, 35). The nation that was dead for 2000 years with gentile control has now blossomed into a fertile land as an independent Jewish nation. The Christian Church that believes God will not break his promises to Israel also believes the nation of Israel changed how the Church understands prophecy. It is the best proof that we are near the end of the Church Age. America is another super sign. End time prophecy follows a simple mathematical equation: A + B = C. A is America, C is Christ and B is the prophetic events that describe the fall of all nations so Jesus Christ reigns. The United States is the economic engine that helps prepare the world for the Tribulation. Since America falls first, what country knocks us down and who take our place as superpower? Like a row of dominoes, put all the events in their proper order and see God at work in his people. The United States is the only superpower of the world. China, European Union, India, Islam and Russia are waiting to be our replacement. The 6th trumpet is a war that describes a huge 200 million army that kills a third of humanity or 2 billion 500 million people ( Revelation 9:14-15, 16). Three powers can gather such a large army. India has ~1.35 billion people but is not aggressive. Islam has ~1.8 billion people, is aggressive but is not united. Russia and Radical Islam fight Israel in Ezekiel 38-39. China with ~1.4 billion has the army, aggression and implemented a plan to become superpower and control the world. They march toward the Euphrates in Iraq to control the supply of oil in the Middle East. The United States, China and India are the three most populated nations with over ~3 billion. Once they fall, the lion/bear/leopard rules and gives power to the Antichrist ( Revelation 13:2, Revelation 17:12-13). End Time prophecy is not for the past but God’s plan for our time and the time to come. God told his people what happens before it comes to pass (Isaiah 42:9). Encourage one another with these words. Robert Cook
TrumpetsTX 21st Century Revelation www.21stcenturyrevelation.com |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 7, 2021 20:42:32 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Apr 8, 2021 7:22:08 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX please use caution when expressing your ideas and positions. I think you understand this as you write: But earlier in the reply you state: The premise is not weak at all, but your opinion is that it is weak. Please avoid this type of message as it is not in alignment with Rule #3. Telling someone that holds a view that you acknowledge as potentially valid is a bit argumentative. Perhaps it was just a porr way to get your point across. We can differ in our views on these things that are yet future without putting another down in the view they hold. There many very good scholars who hold to a late Trib or post Trib position with much good reason and scripture to back that position. I agree it is good to discuss these things and encourage one another with the word. Some questions to your response: The faithful church is shrinking in number quite dramatically in our days. Judgement comes upon nations, of which ours is pushing itself to reach the front of the line. You cite Rev 3:10 stating the world goes through tribulation but the church (of Philadelphia) does not. I notice the word used here is 3986 peirasmos = an experiment, a trial, temptation. Stating that this verse equates to not going through or even into the tribulation however the term Jesus uses for tribulation is 2347. thlipsis = persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.In Matt 24 - we see Jesus tell the disciples (and future saints) about the things that are not signs explaining they are merely birth pains, contractions which must occur before the end. I see that these things (birth pains) are currently happening and have been for many many years. I also see that many of our brethren are delivered to tribulation and being killed (Lord grant grace to our brothers & sisters in Iran, China, Russia, throughout Africa), that many are falling away after their own itching ears and false prophets are abounding to tickle those ears. But what about the rest of this chapter. What of this enduring to the end; the end of what? the end of birth pangs? Possibly because then the end will come...after the things proceeding it. But what is next? How do you see these "fit" into the end times scenario? In light of this statement I would ask that you help me understand your position if you were one of those brothers in Africa, or other places where they were put to death for their faith in Christ. Would you say that this is not tribulation? How would you characterize Daniel being carted off to Babylon for most of his life was being punished with the rest of those who were faithful or was he being redeemed as lost or judged as rebellious? I think that even though he was part of the judgement he was spared from the hour of trial/testing to some degree. What of Noah who was saved through the flood, not taken away before it happened? Joseph is a classic example of going through tribulation and came out pure, white and unspotted. Perhaps Jeremiah is another example, or Paul. None of the apostles (save John) were spared great tribulation regardless of what greek word we use to describe it. I am interested in how these would fit into a pre-Trib timeline if you'd indulge? So as to not make this too lengthy I will post my next response separately as I have some other questions/thoughts on your response to venge
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Post by mike on Apr 8, 2021 7:43:55 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX,Though I am not a proponent of what we call replacement theology, I do struggle with how some separate Israel from the church in some contexts but not others. For example one of the many scriptures cited about Israel is that they will posses the land forever (Gen 12:7, 13:15, 2Chron 20:7...) but what do we do with scriptures like: Lev 3:17 This is a permanent statute for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood.
Lev 6:18 All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations concerning the offerings of the LORD made by fire: every one that toucheth them shall be holy.
Num 18:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
2Chron 2:4, Num 15:14-15, Ex 12:14
There are other permanent things to be done forever, yet when it comes to Israel I often see the people of the church say, the land is Israel's forever because the Lord said so. I tend to agree. The land is theirs forever, but we do not include these other ordinances in our forever thinking. Do you have insight to offer on this? (I realize Christ fulfilled many of the ordinances, although not all of them)
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Post by mike on Apr 8, 2021 8:24:55 GMT -6
TrumpetsTX Can you further explain this portion of your post as it seems to me you are saying the 6th trumpet will cause the AC to rule the world. Reading this and the rest of your post, the 7 years/70 week of Daniel wouldnt start until the 6th trumpet? Would you mind clarifying?
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Apr 12, 2021 19:51:00 GMT -6
boraddict
Antichrist and the Beast
boraddict : Have you identified the beast and the man in Rev. 13:18?
The Antichrist rules the Beast (Revelation 13:1-2). The British lion/Russian bear/German leopard merge into the Beast (Daniel 7:7). The Beast has ten horns/ten kings. There is no ten headed man but there are multi-national government organizations. The ten horns/kings Beast give power to the 11th little horn that comes from the Beast (Daniel 7:8, 24, Revelation 17:11-12). As the strong dictator rules, his personality permeates his administration and his empire. The Beast is partly of iron and clay from the Roman Empire (Daniel 2:33).
The False Prophet rules the second Beast (Revelation 13:11). The Catholic pope is not the Antichrist but the False Prophet rules world religion. The second Beast is Europa, the woman on the red Beast (Revelation 17:3). She wears purple, red, gold and precious stones (Revelation 17:4). Bishops and cardinals wear purple and red. The Church is the bride (Revelation 19:7-8) but world religion is the mother of harlot that sits on seven hills which is Rome (Revelation 17:5, 9). Once all Christians are raptured from the Catholic and Protestant churches, the False Prophet uses the organization of the Catholic church to merge false religions to worship the Antichrist.
The Antichrist is alive today but has not been revealed. There is plenty of speculation on who is the Antichrist. Many US presidents are suggested but they only build the world’s economic system with the powerful internet. The number 666 is used to calculate the number (Revelation 13:18). Another way is to look at the three Greek letters. Χξς (Chi Xi Stigma) is translated Bismillah in Arabic as “In the name of Allah two crossed swords”. The Antichrist is from the European Union but may have an Islamic background to unite all nations.
See Part 3 – Daniel’s Dream: America in the Bible
Seals & Trumpets
boraddict: Another thing that seems relatively clear is that the trumpets are judgments; the first 4 occurring as one event (Ch.8) followed by the remaining 3 as woes (Ch. 9-11). What do you say that the seals are?
The colors of the horses (white, red, black, green) are the keys to understand the four horses. Look at a world map and see the horses running today. The seven trumpets are seven separate wars. The futurist view is that Revelation occurs in sequence (seals, trumpets, bowls) during the seven years of Tribulation. The 21st century view is four seals and five trumpets occur before the Tribulation begins. The Revelation 12 signs also occurred before the Tribulation. Once we understand history of the last 120 years and current events, we see how God uses wars to prepare Israel and the world for the Tribulation. During the 6th trumpet, America falls and the next superpower gives power to the Antichrist. Jewish holy days confirm the seven wars.
See Part 4, 5 and 6: Four Horses on the Run, Seven Wars of the Seven Trumpets.
Revelation Structure and Content
Boraddict: Do you work with chiasmi in your analysis of scripture?
The structure of the book of Revelation has multiple dimensions. John wrote the past, present and future (Revelation 1:19). The book has a chiastic structure that repeats themes (ABCDEEDCBA). This literary device is used in other books of the Bible. I am just learning about the chiastic structure. The major themes of Revelation form a spiral of events and timing (churches, seals, 144,000, trumpets, two witnesses, woman/child, Antichrist/False Prophet, bowls, woman/Beast, Armageddon). Revelation is written in an order but not sequential order. It is challenging to convert eastern thinking into western sequential thinking. After diligent study, God reveals His plan for our time and the time to come.
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Post by boraddict on Apr 14, 2021 12:55:45 GMT -6
Thanks TrumpetsTX. Chiasmi are easy to work with but wouldn't it be cool if the BofR was a double helix like DNA? The two halves of the book would be the double helix building around the central axis. I can not think that deeply. I am reasonably sure that the prophecy of the BofR is two fold however, the first of which is the scroll that was given to the Savior in Chapter 5 that is then referenced in Rev. 1:1, etc. And, the second aspect of the prophecy of the BofR is the personal message in Chapters 1-3 from the Savior. The question about which of these two parts are to be "kept" (Rev. 1:3, 22:7) then comes down to which of these two can be kept. Since the first is the actual revelation that is shown to John and then described to us in such fantastic terms; and we all arrive at different interpretations, then how can anyone keep that. However, the second is very clear and unambiguous and therefor quite easily kept. I have therefore concluded that the vast majority of the BofR is simply filler to seal the promises of the Savior from becoming common knowledge. That is, we get so caught up in the awesomeness of the book that we gloss over the simple message and prophecy of the book that can be kept; and that is the personal messages in Chapters 2-3). That is, how can anyone keep the information on the scroll that the Savior received from the Father and then gave to his angel to give to John to write to us; that we can not understand but in a limited fashion. It can not be done! However, the personal message from the Savior to us can be kept and that is what the BofR is really about. |
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Apr 15, 2021 21:23:53 GMT -6
boraddict
The theme of the Bible began with Genesis 2-3 and begins again in Revelation 21:3. God dwells with humanity. In between, humanity falls into sin but God the Father sent His son to redeem us and restore us. Revelation just wraps up everything. We can know! We just make it over complicated to get the details in order. We are blessed by studying Revelation. Christians are resurrected, Israel is saved, those who refuse God as Savor and Lord are judged. All nations fall and Jesus Christ reigns. Comfort one another with these worlds (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Apr 15, 2021 21:37:24 GMT -6
venge
TrumpetsTX: Revelation chapters 4-22 are future.
venge: This statement is an opinion yet you state it as a fact.
You took a phrase out of context and missed the point. If you look carefully, we might actually agree on a couple points.
TrumpetsTX: In September 2017, a Revelation 12 sign was fulfilled. That is a violation of the futurist view because Revelation chapters 4-22 are future. What happens when see a few prophecy fulfilled? It doesn’t change the timing of the Rapture, Tribulation and Millennium but a prophecy fulfilled gives Christians a clue of where and when we are along with comfort and encouragement seeing God at work.
TrumpetsTX: After reviewing, the literal futurist’s view of Revelation is close but needs a few updates to see God’s plan for our time.
Genesis like Revelation is not in chronical order. In Genesis chapter 1-2, God creates the world in six days, rests the 7th day and creates Adam and Eve. The narrative goes back in time to day 6 and tells the story of the creation of Adam. Genesis describes the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph but their lives overlap. History occurs in chronical order but is usually written grouped by person or events.
Here is my understanding.
1. Futurists believe Revelation chapters 4-22 are future (Revelation 4:1). Those events occur in the Tribulation. Note: The fact is futurist believe it.
2. There was a Revelation 12:1-2 sign of a woman in the sky in September 2017.
3. The Revelation 12 sign conflicts with the futurist belief that Revelation chapters 4-22 are future.
4. Revelation is written in a chiastic structure (ABCDEEDCBA), a sequence of visions but we see it as a list of events.
Churches -> Seals-> 144,000 -> Trumpets -> Bitter Scroll ->, 2 Witnesses -> Revelation 12 -> Dragon/Beast/2nd Beast -> 144,000 -> Bowls -> Mystery Babylon -> Armageddon->
Second Coming -> Millennial Reign -> New Heaven & Earth
5. Revelation is written in a general sequence.
Church Age -> Tribulation -> Millennium -> New Heaven & Earth
6. Revelation is not written in chronical order but a spiral of events (churches, seals, 144,000, trumpets … ).
• Four seals occur before the Tribulation.
• Five trumpets occur before the Tribulation.
• Revelation 12 signs occur before the Tribulation.
• The 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl is the Second Coming based on lightning, thunder, voices, great hail, earthquakes, mountains fall, islands move. Ezekiel 38-39 also ends with those signs.
What happens when we see prophecy fulfilled before the seven years of Tribulation begins? We cannot predict the future but we can apply Scripture to understand fulfilled prophecy through recent history and signs of our time (Matthew 16:3).
What are the seals and trumpets? When are the seals and trumpets?
See 21st Century View of Revelation, Parts 4-6 Horses on the Run and Seven Wars of the Seven Trumpets.
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Post by uscgvet on Apr 16, 2021 5:37:12 GMT -6
I am in my 4th year of study here at Unsealed; what kind of degree do I get? When do I hit the Doctorate level? You are awarded an internet cookie with the rest of us.  |
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Apr 17, 2021 17:24:11 GMT -6
The Eagle is the United States
boraddict: You said: "The eagle is the United States" and this metaphor is simple enough. However, the birds tend to represent motion and an eagle flies long distances in contrast to foul that stays in a general vicinity. One example is the dove that is graceful and represents a member of the Godhead in motion (Mark 1:10). So the eagle is not necessarily the United States but a nation that travels long distances (IMO) as Great Britain did during Pax Britannica. Please notice in the verse (Dan. 7:4) that the eagle's wings were plucked and it was made to stand like a man and a man's heart was given unto it. How does this describe the United States? It does however describe Great Britain during the early 1900's IMO.
Another problem with the eagle metaphor representing the United States is that Matt. 24:28 states that the eagles gather to the carcase and Rev. 12:14 references two wings of a Great Eagle. Again, eagles fly long distances and the gathering to the carcase as well as upon the wings of the Great Eagle does not imply a reference to the United States but to traveling long distances. The short of it seems to be that the eagle references pertain to Christ's people in long distance travel. I say this because we also see the Savior's people called "foul" in Rev. 19:17 indicating that they are traveling a shorter distance and fighting a regional war. IMO
Daniel 2:32-33 describes a five part stature and Daniel 7:3 describes three beasts or empire nations that merge together into the fourth beast with 10 horns/kings. The lion, bear and leopard merge into the Beast of Revelation 13:1-2. See discussion 21st Century View of Revelation - Part 3 – Daniel’s Dream above.  The lion is the United Kingdom, the eagle’s wings are the United States, the bear is Russia and the leopard is Germany. In the New Testament, a lion is a lion but describes nine different things ( Daniel 7:3-4, 5-6, 7) Lions in the New Testament• Out of the Mouth of the Lion: God’s Protection ( 2 Timothy 4:17) • Stopped the Mouths of Lions: Literal Lions ( Hebrews 11:33) • As a Roaring Lion: Satan ( 1 Peter 5:8) • Like a Lion: 1 of 4 Gospel angels at the Throne of God ( Revelation 4:7) • Lion of the Tribe of Judah: Jesus Christ ( Revelation 5:5) • As the Teeth of Lions: Air War ( Revelation 9:8) • As the Heads of Lions: Ground War ( Revelation 9:17) • When a Lion Roars: Angel’s Voice ( Revelation 10:3) • As the Mouth of a Lion: Language ( Revelation 13:2) The United King’s symbol is the lion. They have nine lions on the UK royal coat of arms and the one horned beast. The mouth of the lion is English spread throughout their empire ( Revelation 13:1-2). UK started as lion and built a vast empire but stood as a man when they gave away much of their colonies (India, Ireland, Israel, South Africa), lost others (United States) and allowed home rule (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) ( Daniel 7:4). The lion is not the eagle.  Sometimes an eagle is a bird ( Revelation 19:17), unclean animals ( Leviticus 11:13), God’s protection ( Deuteronomy 32:11-12) or a symbol for a country ( Daniel 7:4). The eagle is the national symbol of the United States. The Great Seal on the US one dollar bill has an eagle. The UK was an empire that travels by sea but the US eagle flies long distances as superpower around the earth. Flying started in 1903 with the Wright brothers and in 1969, “the eagle has landed” on the moon. Germany’s symbol is also an eagle but is not a lion cub from the UK lion but the leopard. However, the US was a colony of the UK ( Ezekiel 38:13). July 4, 1776 is the 17 of Tammuz (Golden Calf). From Columbus discovering America to now, there are over a hundred historic days that fall on Jewish holy days and marked with the fingerprints of God. United States in the Bible - Daniel 2• The United States’ national symbol is the eagle. • The United Kingdom’s national symbol is the lion. • The United States was a colony of the United Kingdom. • The United States (eagle) was torn from the United Kingdom (lion) by the American Revolutionary War. • The Declaration of Independence was adopted on July 4, 1776 or the 17th of Tammuz (Golden Calf). United States Symbols in the Bible• Daniel’s Dream - Eagle’s Wings Daniel 7:4
• Russian-Islamic War - Young Lions Ezekiel 38:13
• Israel Protected - Great Eagle Revelation 12:14
The United States is instrumental in God’s plan to promote the Gospel throughout the world. Over a hundred US and world events occur on Jewish holy days. The US is superpower but is about to fall. Who makes us fall? Who replaces us? The iron and clay empire ( Daniel 2:33-34) of the British lion, Russian Bear and German leopard merge into the 10 king Beast but gives power to the 11th king – Antichrist ( Revelation 17:12-13). The stone (Jesus Christ) destroys the Beast at the end of the Tribulation ( Daniel 2:34). Robert Cook
TrumpetsTX www.21stcenturyrevelation.com
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Apr 19, 2021 22:28:34 GMT -6
I feel like you continually attack the pre-trib rapture. You also refuse to understand that when someone talks of the Tribulation with a capital T they are speaking of Daniel's 70th week. No one disagrees with you that the church will go through tribulation - lower case t. The pre-trib (aka pre-70th week) view is Biblical and Scriptural, and you insult many people with these comments. I agree with you, I don't think its intended like that. But what I find is people who do not understand the facts that we do, that the Rapture is Pre Trib are always trying to prove their points to the nth degree. Whereas if I find out you are different in your thinking I am not going to o out of my way to point out every time I see you in error, because I know I am right, its not faith per se, the Holy Spirit leads us unto all truth, its just not a belief as I see it, so I am not willing to debate it on a continual basis. But what I see with the other side is they have to make sure they let us know we are wrong at every chance, even though we are right. To be honest it does get a little old, we know where you stand and why, and have pointed out why we think you are in error, it really doesn't need repeating every time we make an Eschatological point, that you disagree, we know that. We know because we think you are in error. So, why point it out every time? I don't get that TBH, but it doesn't bother me as much as some, I just ignore it for the most part. It is what it is. Of course I like others are willing to debate it, because I have the answers on my memory bank account.  The Seals are NOT ACTIONABLE, they are locks on a door so to speak. Why would you be able to read a kings message to his front line if it has 3 Wax Seals on it and only two have been broken? The whole SEAL THHING means nothing can be read until every wax seal is broken, that is the intended message being sent by Jesus, the #7 means COMPLETENESS thus God completely has the Judgment scrolls LOCKED DOWN until all 7 Seals are unlocked or broken. The Seals are Jesus Prophesying just before the Judgments are blown: 1.) Jesus opens the First Seal and Prophesies about a coming Conqueror who will conquer many over a 42-month period of time. (White Horse/Anti-Christ/Beast) 2.) Jesus opens the Second Seal and Prophesies that this Anti-Christ will take Peace away (Dan. 8:25) over a 42-month period of time, thus he BRINGS WARS. (Red Horse) 3.) Jesus opens the Third Seal and Prophesies that this coming tyrant Beast will bring Famine via his wars over a 42-month period of time. (Black Horse) 4.) Jesus opens the Fourth Seal and Prophesies that this coming Little Horn/Anti-Christ will bring Sickness/Death and the Grave over a 42-month period. (Pale Green Horse) 5.) Jesus opens the Fifth Seal and Prophesies that this tyrant Beast Ruler will Martyr many Christian peoples (who repent after the Rapture IMHO) over a 42-month period. 6.) Jesus opens the Six Seal and Prophesies of the coming 42-month Day of the Lord which is God's Wrath that starts with the Rev. 8 asteroid strike. This is why he "PROPHESIES" about a coming day of Darkness in Seal #6. About the Heavens being SHAKEN (Satan is cast down to earth at the 1260 middle of the week event and thus chases the Woman for 1260 days). The Sun and Moons Light are diminished via Trump #4, and that is when THIS PROPHESY comes true. And that is also when the Joel 2:31 Prophesy comes true. The 6th Seal leaves one more seal to be opened by Jesus before this Judgment Scroll can be read from. We can't read a 7 Sealed Scroll with 6 Seals off of it any more than we can open a closet door with 6 of 7 locks taken off, the 7th lock still has to be taken off. That is why the scrolls are SEALED !! 7.) Notice when the 7th Seal is loosed or taken off or broken, in CHAPTER 8, where the Trumps are at !! And there is then SILENCE in Heaven fir 30 minutes. Jesus says nothing after the 7th Seal is broken because there is no need for Prophetic utterances anymore, Judgment has come. The Trumps are readied, fire is hurled down to earth, followed by an asteroid, followed by a STAR which is really the same asteroid but we just get the Nuclear Fallout (WORMWOOD0 understanding. Finally we get the Fourth Trump which is the same event, but its the Smoke that blots out the Sun and Moon by 1/3. The Wrath of God falls at the First Four Trumps which are all the exact same event, and Asteroid strike on earth, in an ocean. God's Wrath lasts 42-months. The Anti-Christ is very intelligent, he know dark sentences, Satan is guiding him. He know tat when 1/3 of the world is TAKEN OUT for him, his job as a CONQUEROR just got tat much easier. Plus, he plans to go forth at the exact sane time, thus the parallel 42-months, by doing this he catches everyone off guard, they do not understand how much of a sadistic tyrant he is. He is calculating to the nth degree. As soon as this Asteroid strikes, and we have the ROARING WAVES Jesus told us to look for in Luke 21, this man is going to GO FORTH Conquering, at that very moment in time. So, it is true there is NO WRATH before the 6th Seal, but you have Wrath too soon also my good friend. During these Seals Jesus is prophesying into the 42-months of the Beasts RULE and into the 42-months of God's Wrath which both parallel with each other. The Rapture of the Church is a part of the First Resurrection, as are the Jews raised up after Jesus' Second Coming, as are all the Martyrs raised up after Jesus' Second Coming, and Judged in Rev. 20:4, thus they can NEVER be seen in Rev. 7:9-16, those came out of the Church Age tribulation which was 2000 some odd years in length. They can not come out of the 70th week trib because Jesus SPECIFICALLY STATES no one will be raised from the 70th week, those under the Altar are told they MUST WAIT until all of their brothers are killed in like manner as they were, and those in Rev. 20:4 are raised AFTER Jesus and the Church/Bride return frim Heaven via Rev. 19. As I have stated on here before, Jesus told us ALL TIME IS TRIBULATION, thus we have a 2000 some odd year Church Age Period which John describes as the Great Tribulation in Rev. 7:9-16, because they came out of the GREATER PERIOD via 2000>7. Then we thus have the 70th week tribulation since ALL TIME is tribulation, then we have the GREATEST EVER TROUBLES of Jacob which lasts for 3.5 years. Since ALL TIME is tribulation we all seem to agree on this..........ME LIKE....... But, just to not be misunderstood, I see the Rapture as BEFORE the 70th week starts. Jews are Raptured also, IF they are Messianic Jews. The Jews who come unto Christ AFTER the Rapture (3-5 million Jews or 1/3 of the Jews as Zechariah 13:8-9 says) will be protected for 1260 days, the Saints/Jews of old or pre Jesus will be raised at the VERY END, see Daniel 12 where he is told he will stand in his lot at the very end of time. So, some Jews will be taken the Pre Trib (as we see it) Rapture, and some will be protected, and some will be raised at the very end. Thus, Jesus is speaking unto the 70th week Jews in Matt. 24:15-31, as EVIDENCED by him speaking about the AoD in verse 15-17, and about the Anti-Christ and False Prophet in verse 24 and about his Second Coming in verses 29-31. But in verses 36-51 Jesus is speaking about THE RAPTURE, thus it happens before the 70th week. This is why it is as the days of Noah, LIKE NOW, they run to and fro getting married all happy go lucky, worrying about nothing, now lets be honest, this CAN NOT BE about the days leading up to the Second Coming, when wicked people are dodging God's Wrath !! They are not as in the days of Noah. Once the rains started people PANICKED, once the Wrath starts people will PANICK, they will not be marrying and eating. We are to WATCH for the Rapture, we know when the Second Coming is coming, 1260 days after the Beast Conquers Jerusalem. The Day of the Shofar Rapture knows NO MAN, we know the day Jesus will return, 1260 days after the Beast starts ruling. |
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 19, 2021 22:54:15 GMT -6
Just a question, but have you accounted for the alteration of the calendar when it was changed over from Julian to Gregorian?
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