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Post by Natalie on Apr 3, 2020 15:09:06 GMT -6
This is a short video (about 6 minutes) that addresses Zech 12:10-14
I got Paul's permission to share one of his comments related to the video. I thought both this comment and video had some interesting insights.
(The question was in regards to the Jews only recognizing the AC at the AofD)
It feels like the dots are connecting, at least in my head they are.  |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 4, 2020 10:00:00 GMT -6
So, I make notes in my Bible, but I don't always write where I got those notes, but by this passage in Zech I have the following:
David - the leaders
Nathan - the prophets
Levi - the priests
Shimeites - those in rebellion
all the families that are left
everyone is represented
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Post by Natalie on Apr 5, 2020 18:19:46 GMT -6
I've been doing some thinking...and it got me wondering if I had been thinking about some things incorrectly. Questioning things as we like to do here sometimes. With the rapture of the church, God removes the partial hardening and they recognize the Messiah as Jesus, then they would understand that sacrifices for sin were no longer necessary. Yet, during Daniel's 70th week, there are sacrifices going on for half the week. There will also be a temple built. What if they are doing these things as an act of worship and obedience instead of acts of atonement? With hearts of love, mercy, and humbleness? (Micah 7:3) Maybe they want to build the Temple in anticipation of Jesus' return? Maybe they are doing it to honor God who gave them the laws and the sacrifices and wants to dwell with them? Knowing they don't have to, but because of a fulfillment of Jer 31 that He is writing His law on their hearts. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 5, 2020 18:21:32 GMT -6
I guess what has changed for me is that timing of when they recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Instead of being a sudden "aha" at the middle or crying out at the end, it's right from the beginning for a lot of Jews.
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Apr 5, 2020 20:24:57 GMT -6
I've been doing some thinking...and it got me wondering if I had been thinking about some things incorrectly. Questioning things as we like to do here sometimes. With the rapture of the church, God removes the partial hardening and they recognize the Messiah as Jesus, then they would understand that sacrifices for sin were no longer necessary. Yet, during Daniel's 70th week, there are sacrifices going on for half the week. There will also be a temple built. What if they are doing these things as an act of worship and obedience instead of acts of atonement? With hearts of love, mercy, and humbleness? (Micah 7:3) Maybe they want to build the Temple in anticipation of Jesus' return? Maybe they are doing it to honor God who gave them the laws and the sacrifices and wants to dwell with them? Knowing they don't have to, but because of a fulfillment of Jer 31 that He is writing His law on their hearts. What a beautiful thought this is! I have been thinking much of the same since watching Paul's video. But the question I have been struggling with, is if they know right away, how does the 7 year agreement get signed? Wouldn't then they be able to determine the antichrist's identity if they recognized Jesus as the Messiah at the rapture? I think Paul is on to something here, but I can't figure that part out. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 5, 2020 20:45:29 GMT -6
That's a good question. I agree that I think Paul's on to something. I have lots of thoughts and questions tumbling around in my head lately. Sometimes they organize themselves. What if we are not understanding the agreement correctly either? I know some have proposed that it's God reinstating His covenant with the Jews. It is after all His timeline and His people. But He still has to send them through the 70th week. (I am thinking of verses such as Jer 30:11) I know so many people are expecting a Peace Treaty, but does the Bible describe a time of peace? I don't know that it does, but maybe someone can point out where I am wrong. What if there is no treaty because all the major enemies are destroyed in the Ez 38 battle? Unless the battle happens after the 70th week begins. But as we can see right now, agreement on Trump's plan is only one sided. And, personally, I think it will stay that way. I don't see the Palestinians suddenly changing their minds after all these years, unless something big happens (that doesn't destroy them). So, that brings up more questions like if God is the He who makes the covenant then is He also the one that puts an end to sacrifices? I'm going to have to look into the understanding of that a bit more. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 5, 2020 21:46:05 GMT -6
I guess what has changed for me is that timing of when they recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Instead of being a sudden "aha" at the middle or crying out at the end, it's right from the beginning for a lot of Jews. Why wouldnt it be just after the AoD when they have fled and are hidden, that they ask themselves "We thought he was the messiah, where have we gone wrong..." and they look to God for answers and he opens their hearts? |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 5, 2020 21:51:07 GMT -6
I've been doing some thinking...and it got me wondering if I had been thinking about some things incorrectly. Questioning things as we like to do here sometimes. With the rapture of the church, God removes the partial hardening and they recognize the Messiah as Jesus, then they would understand that sacrifices for sin were no longer necessary. Yet, during Daniel's 70th week, there are sacrifices going on for half the week. There will also be a temple built. What if they are doing these things as an act of worship and obedience instead of acts of atonement? With hearts of love, mercy, and humbleness? (Micah 7:3) Maybe they want to build the Temple in anticipation of Jesus' return? Maybe they are doing it to honor God who gave them the laws and the sacrifices and wants to dwell with them? Knowing they don't have to, but because of a fulfillment of Jer 31 that He is writing His law on their hearts. What a beautiful thought this is! I have been thinking much of the same since watching Paul's video. But the question I have been struggling with, is if they know right away, how does the 7 year agreement get signed? Wouldn't then they be able to determine the antichrist's identity if they recognized Jesus as the Messiah at the rapture? I think Paul is on to something here, but I can't figure that part out. They think the AC is the messiah (we have made a deal with death), they continue the sacrifices, because their notion of messiah distinguishes him from God, so they would continue to sacrifice. At the AoD, their messiah comes in and 'upsets the apple cart' and after fleeing, they come to realize that they were wrong, and the two witnesses, who were telling them all along who Jesus was the Messiah were right, and they turn to Jesus... the 144k go forth, unassailable (possibly at, or just before, the AoD instead of fleeing with the rest), the Dragon makes war on 'the rest of her children'- aka the Trib saints... And the part that is missing above is where the AC receives a mortal wound just before or just after the AoD... |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 6, 2020 6:48:27 GMT -6
I guess what has changed for me is that timing of when they recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Instead of being a sudden "aha" at the middle or crying out at the end, it's right from the beginning for a lot of Jews. Why wouldnt it be just after the AoD when they have fled and are hidden, that they ask themselves "We thought he was the messiah, where have we gone wrong..." and they look to God for answers and he opens their hearts? It very well could be this way. My above post is more of questions and what ifs that were raised (in my mind) by Paul's comments and the verse in Romans. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 6, 2020 11:49:44 GMT -6
I thought of another question that I am sure has been discussed somewhere...what is the ethnicity of the AC? He would have to be Jewish for the Jews to accept he is Messiah. Right?
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Post by fitz on Apr 6, 2020 14:44:47 GMT -6
Well, they are certainly expecting a Jewish messiah, so...I think he has to be.
The Pharisees only spoke to Jesus because he was Jewish, otherwise, I doubt anyone in Israel would have paid any attention to him.
Seems like the first pre-requisite. No?
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Post by Natalie on Apr 6, 2020 15:43:25 GMT -6
Yes, they are looking for their Jewish Messiah.
But, what does the Bible say about the AC? Does it say that he is Jewish?
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Post by Natalie on Apr 6, 2020 15:47:42 GMT -6
Another question came to mind (ok, more than one)...if the AC is Jewish, why would he set out to conquer Israel (end of Dan 11)? Wouldn't he already be headquartered in Israel? And would a non-Jewish world accept a Jewish world leader? (although with God all things are possible, right? ) (edit: I suppose they would more easily if he wasn't a "practicing Jew") |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 6, 2020 20:39:44 GMT -6
Why wouldnt it be just after the AoD when they have fled and are hidden, that they ask themselves "We thought he was the messiah, where have we gone wrong..." and they look to God for answers and he opens their hearts? It very well could be this way. My above post is more of questions and what ifs that were raised (in my mind) by Paul's comments and the verse in Romans. I'm sorry. I should have pointed out that my response was only a hypothesis. I am sure there are other scenarios that would also be just as valid. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 6, 2020 20:49:39 GMT -6
I thought of another question that I am sure has been discussed somewhere...what is the ethnicity of the AC? He would have to be Jewish for the Jews to accept he is Messiah. Right? IIRC, he is 'of the people who destroyed the temple' in 70AD, per Daniel 9:26 That is, he is a descendant of the people who destroyed the temple in 70AD. I think I did a 'light' study of this in another thread: board.unsealed.org/thread/1890?page=9 |
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