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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Apr 6, 2020 21:11:47 GMT -6
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Blinded or Temporally Unblinded... this scripture seems to describe WHO is what and What is whom... RIGHT NOW! If one does not acknowledge the Jesus, they are NOT from God. From this passage we are not talking about buhdists, nor muslims...because it is referring to those who went out from them, those eye witness hearers? and these passages are the only ones that even refer to antichrist. It is not in Revelation, tho it is implied. If so, then it is implied even in Daniel.
edit: is there not answers for us in the Scriptures? Is there not a pattern set to be unfolded? (exclude man and his interpretation about how he sees it unfolding) We have been shown a pattern of Judah. We who are gentile have been shown by a jew, Paul, that there is a purpose. I say this to verify this in not about being anti-jew.. It is about seeking God's plan, which, in the First Advent He did not work to unblind but to cause ALL to see, and that it is not about land, or power or destroying physical human enemies, but to TURN FROM one's thinking that he/she himself/herself has any power over anything. If a person had this power over anything/everything, then Jesus is not needed. Is this what John is talking about in his epistle? If I am wrong than tell me I am wrong. The modern day Jew, BY DEFINTION, is ripe to follow a lie. I am not being mean, I am not bitter, I am taking what the OT and the NT say about such a thing.
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Post by fitz on Apr 7, 2020 5:08:44 GMT -6
I thought of another question that I am sure has been discussed somewhere...what is the ethnicity of the AC? He would have to be Jewish for the Jews to accept he is Messiah. Right? IIRC, he is 'of the people who destroyed the temple' in 70AD, per Daniel 9:26 That is, he is a descendant of the people who destroyed the temple in 70AD. I think I did a 'light' study of this in another thread: board.unsealed.org/thread/1890?page=9Of course, you are correct. It's just hard for me to see how they accept a non-Jewish messiah. I've read speculation in the past that he IS Jewish, but also somehow fulfills the above scripture. However, have you seen how many in Israel "worship" DJT. His face is plastered everywhere...school children sing songs about him. They put him on the temple coin...on and on. Not implying anything, cuz obviously, I do not know. |
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Post by Natalie on Apr 7, 2020 7:51:15 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - yes, what you say is correct, but I am speaking of the one that's coming who the Bible calls "the beast" or the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" (man of sin). And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 fitz they think more highly of Pres Trump than many in our country.  but I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment. But I guess what I am questioning is where in the Bible does it say they will worship the AC?
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Post by venge on Apr 7, 2020 8:54:28 GMT -6
And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 What if we are not removed, and our remaining through persecution with our love/patience/preaching is what removes their blindness when no one else helps them? |
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Post by venge on Apr 7, 2020 9:01:14 GMT -6
And the part that is missing above is where the AC receives a mortal wound just before or just after the AoD... How many heads does a man have? This is the same beast that is said: How can a man have 7 heads and 10 horns? Are not horns men themselves? And a man wearing a crown symbolizes his rulership? And the physical makeup of this beast that receives the mortal wound, how does a man resemble a leopard, a bear and a mouth of a lion? All three of those characteristics resembled empires...not men nor the men that ruled those nations. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 7, 2020 9:07:55 GMT -6
And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 What if we are not removed, and our remaining through persecution with our love/patience/preaching is what removes their blindness when no one else helps them? But Venge, Jesus Himself came to them, and they would not listen. The Church started there, and they did not listen. For 2000 years, the church has been preaching salvation through the Jewish Messiah, Jesus, and they STILL do not listen (only the very few). What makes you think they would listen to us during the tribulation? No, God has 144k Jewish believers and 2 witnesses that will preach the gospel to them during that time. It is no longer our mission at this point, and we will be gone. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 7, 2020 9:10:55 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - yes, what you say is correct, but I am speaking of the one that's coming who the Bible calls "the beast" or the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" (man of sin). And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 fitz they think more highly of Pres Trump than many in our country. but I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment. But I guess what I am questioning is where in the Bible does it say they will worship the AC? Natalie...I think most derive this belief from: John 5:43
43 For I have come to you in my Father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them.We receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. The Jews reject Jesus, and look to worship another who will come. They are all excited saying "the messiah is coming". They long to see and worship him. |
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Post by venge on Apr 7, 2020 9:30:57 GMT -6
What if we are not removed, and our remaining through persecution with our love/patience/preaching is what removes their blindness when no one else helps them? What makes you think they would listen to us during the tribulation? It is no longer our mission at this point, and we will be gone. I think its always our mission. Until the time where we will not say "know God"...for at that time in the future, everyone will know him. Under persecution the church grew. Paul talks on length about that. Jews did believe on Christ, many did and were converted per the book of Acts. It was through preaching and persecution that people marveled. People gave up their lives to God and spoke with boldness under heavy threat. This coupled with love and a system of helping each other (communal giving of things to take care of each other and others) caused it to grow further. When anyone was able to seek safety in a group of Christians, whether polluted or maimed, blind or dumb...or even a tax collector...there was no political system, caste system or wealth system...they were all equal and all servants to each other. And its not just safety...its faith. But many are brought in for different reasons and through our preaching they believe. Put tribulation on the entire earth. Look at people all over that ravage the weak. Those weak...will move with speed to those that help them with food, clothing, shelter and love! And when they ask why? Because Christ teaches us to do this. Because we love you. And that my friend will be an eye opener to them. You cant have that today....we arnt there yet when people live in their big houses and wide screen TVs. When that time comes, we are needed more then ever. Its the responsibility of the church to do so. You don't hide a candle under a bed when in a dark room. When in complete darkness...you let the candle shine so others can see the light. When that time comes, full of darkness, we are needed and must respond. |
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Post by mike on Apr 7, 2020 10:18:10 GMT -6
Following along... vengeI think you missed something very important here. I dont think it was done deliberately, but I propose an edit to your post to read The people may have marveled at preaching as suggested in Acts but they also followed the miracles of the apostles. Many believed in Christ due to His actions and the actions of the Lord through the disciples. That miracle power eventually waned greatly to what we have today. I do believe this power is coming again however |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 7, 2020 11:46:27 GMT -6
IIRC, he is 'of the people who destroyed the temple' in 70AD, per Daniel 9:26 That is, he is a descendant of the people who destroyed the temple in 70AD. I think I did a 'light' study of this in another thread: board.unsealed.org/thread/1890?page=9Of course, you are correct. It's just hard for me to see how they accept a non-Jewish messiah. I've read speculation in the past that he IS Jewish, but also somehow fulfills the above scripture. However, have you seen how many in Israel "worship" DJT. His face is plastered everywhere...school children sing songs about him. They put him on the temple coin...on and on. Not implying anything, cuz obviously, I do not know. One of the things I have noticed recently, is that the Jewish rabbis seem to recognize a messiah as someone sent by God, regardless of their role. This has been noted (by inference) in several of the news articles that have been posted in the shoutbox. Keep an eye out for how the rabbis describe a 'messiah' in these articles. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 7, 2020 11:47:49 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - yes, what you say is correct, but I am speaking of the one that's coming who the Bible calls "the beast" or the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" (man of sin). And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 fitz they think more highly of Pres Trump than many in our country. b ut I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment. But I guess what I am questioning is where in the Bible does it say they will worship the AC? Kushner fits the bill better than DJT in this case, dont you think? However, I would have to ask how he fits the Daniel 9:26 reference... |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 7, 2020 11:55:09 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - yes, what you say is correct, but I am speaking of the one that's coming who the Bible calls "the beast" or the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" (man of sin). And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 fitz they think more highly of Pres Trump than many in our country. but I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment. But I guess what I am questioning is where in the Bible does it say they will worship the AC? I am not sure there is anywhere that it explicitly says so; however, there is Isa 28's 'Deal with Death' and how it will fail. Also, I am guessing that the remnant which is saved by being hidden will not be the entirety of the jewish people in Israel. Only some of them. Rev 9:20 talks about those who would not repent. I do not think that excludes some of the jewish people. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 7, 2020 12:24:32 GMT -6
And the part that is missing above is where the AC receives a mortal wound just before or just after the AoD... How many heads does a man have? This is the same beast that is said: How can a man have 7 heads and 10 horns? Are not horns men themselves? And a man wearing a crown symbolizes his rulership? And the physical makeup of this beast that receives the mortal wound, how does a man resemble a leopard, a bear and a mouth of a lion? All three of those characteristics resembled empires...not men nor the men that ruled those nations. Venge, I checked what you pointed out against two other passages, and I guess you could say 'my eyes were opened'. Have a look at these two passages: Rev 13 (marked up)biblehub.com/niv/daniel/7.htmI propose that the fourth beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is a kingdom as you say, and so in that sense, I agree with you. However, I propose that the one horn is the horn that is doing the boastful speaking on behalf of the [first] 'beast' and exercising its authority. This is the AC. I propose that the one head that had the fatal wound got that fatal wound before the three heads gave their power to it, and that the one head that got the fatal wound is the AC. It is possible that the beast out of the earth is the AC, and the beast out of the sea is the government that the AC takes over.
The man is the government (exercises authority on its behalf). The government is the man. It is the man that conquers the holy people. It is the man that speaks boastfully. It is the man that is the AC. |
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Post by yardstick on Apr 7, 2020 12:26:48 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - yes, what you say is correct, but I am speaking of the one that's coming who the Bible calls "the beast" or the "little horn" or the "man of lawlessness" (man of sin). And what if the removal of the church removes the blindness? Rom 11:25-27 fitz they think more highly of Pres Trump than many in our country. but I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment. But I guess what I am questioning is where in the Bible does it say they will worship the AC? Natalie...I think most derive this belief from: John 5:43
43 For I have come to you in my Father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them.We receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. The Jews reject Jesus, and look to worship another who will come. They are all excited saying "the messiah is coming". They long to see and worship him. I believe this includes the AC, but is also inclusive of any 'messiah' the jews are anticipating. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 7, 2020 13:19:40 GMT -6
What makes you think they would listen to us during the tribulation? It is no longer our mission at this point, and we will be gone. I think its always our mission. Until the time where we will not say "know God"...for at that time in the future, everyone will know him. Under persecution the church grew. Paul talks on length about that. Jews did believe on Christ, many did and were converted per the book of Acts. It was through preaching and persecution that people marveled. People gave up their lives to God and spoke with boldness under heavy threat. This coupled with love and a system of helping each other (communal giving of things to take care of each other and others) caused it to grow further. When anyone was able to seek safety in a group of Christians, whether polluted or maimed, blind or dumb...or even a tax collector...there was no political system, caste system or wealth system...they were all equal and all servants to each other. And its not just safety...its faith. But many are brought in for different reasons and through our preaching they believe. Put tribulation on the entire earth. Look at people all over that ravage the weak. Those weak...will move with speed to those that help them with food, clothing, shelter and love! And when they ask why? Because Christ teaches us to do this. Because we love you. And that my friend will be an eye opener to them. You cant have that today....we arnt there yet when people live in their big houses and wide screen TVs. When that time comes, we are needed more then ever. Its the responsibility of the church to do so. You don't hide a candle under a bed when in a dark room. When in complete darkness...you let the candle shine so others can see the light. When that time comes, full of darkness, we are needed and must respond. I'm not saying we do not witness to them now, as we can...the time I speak of, is the point past our being here. We physically won't be here for this time. This is the time carved out of history for Jacob and the Church has no part in it. I know, we will just agree to disagree about these things. |
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but I do think they would be looking for a Jewish Messiah. A descendant of David. There are many who think he will arrive at any moment.
