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Post by uscgvet on Jan 2, 2019 20:43:47 GMT -6
socal, I love you brother. I think I would rather just accept defeat than to go through that heart wrenching gauntlet again. You win.  Again you're being patronizing. This isn't about "winning". This is about getting you to actually THINK about what you are posting. You'd rather avoid the issue than answer a simple question? Asking you if you are saved shouldn't challenge you to the point that you give up. If it isn't a clear and confident "yes!" then you haven't put your faith in Christ. That's what faith means: to be fully persuaded. But if you think that your confidence must come from something you are doing, then you're never going to have actual assurance in Christ. You already accused me of not being Christian after I said Paul defined the Gospel in 1 Cor 15 and that's what I believed. You replied that I don't believe that. Thus, I stand accused. What else is there to cover? If I tell you I believe in the Gospel, then you say I don't... We are at a point where it's futile to go on. |
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Post by socalexile on Jan 2, 2019 20:49:38 GMT -6
PS: there's two baptisms in the Bible. Only one of them is required for salvation, and it isn't the one man does: 1:6 Now John was clothed with camel's hair and a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 1:7 And he preached, saying, "He who comes after me is mightier than me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You all must be born again.'" 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, after you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. 3:18 Because, Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 3:20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. 3:21 This is also figurative of that which also now saves us, even baptism - not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him. |
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Post by socalexile on Jan 2, 2019 20:58:35 GMT -6
Again you're being patronizing. This isn't about "winning". This is about getting you to actually THINK about what you are posting. You'd rather avoid the issue than answer a simple question? Asking you if you are saved shouldn't challenge you to the point that you give up. If it isn't a clear and confident "yes!" then you haven't put your faith in Christ. That's what faith means: to be fully persuaded. But if you think that your confidence must come from something you are doing, then you're never going to have actual assurance in Christ. You already accused me of not being Christian after I said Paul defined the Gospel in 1 Cor 15 and that's what I believed. You replied that I don't believe that. Thus, I stand accused. What else is there to cover? If I tell you I believe in the Gospel, then you say I don't... We are at a point where it's futile to go on. Are you saved? Stop avoiding the question. The Gospel is literally "good news". How is it good news that heaven still depends on your works, when generations of Jews weren't ever justified by their works? If works are the defining factor in salvation, then salvation is by works and not grace, since grace and works are mutually exclusive? 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. You can't have it both ways. It's "faith or works" it cannot be by "faith + works", and claiming that the cross has an expiration date is flat-out unsupported anywhere in the Bible. Again, faith isn't what saves, God is who saves, and God has determined that salvation is by His grace through faith, a gift, and not of works. Period. |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 3, 2019 3:36:03 GMT -6
I love debating scripture and there are times that I loose a debate. For instance on this very thread I lost a debate when kjs posted the following: "NO, NO, NO There is NOTHING that separates us from Jesus Christ's Salvation......... If you (or anyone else) think otherwise -- then you have missed out on the very concept of Grace..... Salvation is a FREE GIFT granted to us -- it is unmerited favor --- THERE IS NOTHING we can do to earn it! There is NOTHING we can do to "UN-EARN IT" -- Once the gift is received -- it is never taken back!!!! If you think some Action or Actions will have Jesus Christ remove His gift -- then you are not believing fully in the risen Lord -- You are still perceiving YOU have some input in salvation -- and THAT IS NOT TRUE! " Read more: board.unsealed.org/posts/recent#ixzz5bXEXa2oGSo, I win some and loose some; however, it is serious business because it cuts to who we are. Thus it is that we have our personal battle scars and that is good that we train upon each other so that we can win the real battles against Satan. Our little skirmishes over doctrine make us better; more refined in the Savior's doctrine. And so it is that we practice among ourselves so that when we find an opportunity to save a soul we are a polished instrument in the Savior's hand. He can wield us in battle against the evil one. If you feel that you have lost a debate in scripture then take pride in that; because, the Savior is molding us as his weapons against evil. We are simply being taught through reason and logic that this work is true. |
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 6:52:41 GMT -6
What would happen if a new believer in Christ started walking up to the guillotine and became too afraid (just from a natural response of facing death) to accept beheading and instead took the mark of the beast?
Revelation 14:9-13 paints the picture for us well.
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Post by fitz on Jan 3, 2019 7:19:29 GMT -6
What would happen if a new believer in Christ started walking up to the guillotine and became too afraid (just from a natural response of facing death) to accept beheading and instead took the mark of the beast? Revelation 14:9-13 paints the picture for us well. Personally, I believe that the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" when the church is raptured...but not removed from the earth. Tribulation saints will be saved the same way they are now. Believe in the gospel, by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit. It is only in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that tribulation saints will be able to endure through the tribulation, and if necessary, be killed for their faith. My .02 |
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 7:44:19 GMT -6
What would happen if a new believer in Christ started walking up to the guillotine and became too afraid (just from a natural response of facing death) to accept beheading and instead took the mark of the beast? Revelation 14:9-13 paints the picture for us well. Personally, I believe that the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" when the church is raptured...but not removed from the earth. Tribulation saints will be saved the same way they are now. Believe in the gospel, by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit. It is only in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that tribulation saints will be able to endure through the tribulation, and if necessary, be killed for their faith. My .02 What happens if a believer takes the mark of the beast? Rev 13:16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. |
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Post by fitz on Jan 3, 2019 7:47:14 GMT -6
I don't believe that a true, Holy Spirit filled believer will be able to take the mark. I believe God will give them supernatural power to acquiesce to death rather than take the mark. Look at the apostles that were crucified, burned at the stake, etc. All they had to do was renounce their faith, but they didn't!
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 7:56:02 GMT -6
I don't believe that a true, Holy Spirit filled believer will be able to take the mark. I believe God will give them supernatural power to acquiesce to death rather than take the mark. Look at the apostles that were crucified, burned at the stake, etc. All they had to do was renounce their faith, but they didn't! But where does it say that in the Bible? How do you know God will give them supernatural power to acquiesce to death rather than take the mark? What if they lined up your children in front of you first? You're a brand new believer in Christ. Starving for food. All of you. Remember, you can't buy food without the mark. |
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Post by fitz on Jan 3, 2019 8:00:30 GMT -6
Perhaps you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit? That He is able to keep you in all of your ways?
If you take the mark, you are damned. The bible is clear on that. I don't think a genuine believer will do it. Obviously...genuine believers make it to heaven, those who take the mark do not.
I can't explain everything, but I believe in the power of God. With Him, all things are possible.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 8:03:59 GMT -6
Where was the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament with the called out ones from Egypt... "He is able to keep you in all of your ways?"
Why was the Holy Spirit not able to keep them from worshiping other gods?
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Post by fitz on Jan 3, 2019 8:06:46 GMT -6
Pre-New Covenant. The Holy Spirit did not indwell anyone pre-Christ. But He does now.
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 8:15:33 GMT -6
Pre-New Covenant. The Holy Spirit did not indwell anyone pre-Christ. But He does now. Ok, So Exodus 31 Numbers 24 All of those cases in the book of Judges 1 Samuel 10 etc... That wasn't the Holy Spirit? What Spirit of God other than the Holy Spirit is there? |
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Post by uscgvet on Jan 3, 2019 8:17:58 GMT -6
Is there some 4th Spirit of God that indwells a man so he can speak Prophecy like in 1 Samuel 10?
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Post by fitz on Jan 3, 2019 8:20:31 GMT -6
The Holy Spirit "came upon" these old testament saints to empower them in certain situations. However, the Holy Spirit DID NOT indwell them like He does believers today.
At Pentecost, the HS was given to believers in this age as the deposit, the guarantee of eternal life in the presence of God. Old Testament saints did not get this.
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