Who Are The 24 Elders?

That makes sense. I didn't go back through and see where John actually was but instead was more focused on the places he was seeing.

there is some disagreement on the translation of that verse

One of my thoughts has been...God showed Moses what to construct for worship on earth. It was a copy of things above. Jewish tradition holds that the four tribes nearest the tabernacle had banners with the symbols of lion, ox, man, and eagle...the living creatures. The 24 divisions of Levi served and took care of the tabernacle. Copy of the 24 elders. So, the elders were present at the time of Moses. They can't be the church. I suppose they could be 24 righteous men from before Moses. Abel? Enoch? Noah?

What do you make of this?

Daniel 7:9-10
As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took His seat:
His clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of His head like pure wool;
His throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
A stream of fire issued
and came out from before Him;
a thousand thousands served Him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.

Sounds like the thrones and court (like the Sanhedrin) of 24 elders with thousands upon thousands of angels.

7:13-14 The Son of Man is given a kingdom that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
7:18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.

Hi Canada,

Well, I understand your what you are saying.  If the Jews use 24 books, could it be a relation to the 24 elders. Right?
I would say in my honest opinion, no.  The reason I would say this is because there is no connection between the 2 except for the number 24.  24 books does not explain any significance to the elders, their mission/role, what they wear, what they do, how they got there etc..Unless, you have additional information and scripture you can share regarding this idea...
If I said there are 66 books in the Bible and 6 is the number of man so 666...I can say whatever I want but it needs to be scriptural. 
I believe the answer lies within the bible to the elders, but I also believe no one has found it yet.

I did ask, could the elders be 24 O.T. prophets...as a possibility but honestly, I don't know.
In my own opinion, I believe they are not the church and they are not raptured Christians. I also believe they were there when Christ ascended to his father around 30 AD.  They could of also been there when Moses was in the wilderness as God instructed him to make things they already exist in heaven, when Moses made the 24 ministering sects, it must have already existed in heaven therefore they couldn't be raptured.  Again, it is my opinion.

It is worth noting too, the elders and the living creatures both sing the song.  The living creatures are not raptured so why would the elders be when they sing the same song? The elders also tell John when speaking of others then themselves, that Christ has made "them" priests and kings and "they" will reign on earth 1k years. They separate themselves from that. 

They are definetly mysterious and we all have our own thoughts on the matter =P

No problem Canada.  Most take Revelation literally except for portions that describe things that cannot be literal like a 8 headed dragon or such that angels describe afterwards the mystery or interpretation of the previous message.  But, we have many things all throughour scripture, O.T and N.T. that were not literal in nature and angels, men and Christ explain that.  But do we take those same things that those 3 explain and use its examples to interpret other scripture? =P That's the question.

You are correct they resemble men. But are they raptured before Christ or after Christ =P Are they in heaven before God made his law with Moses?

Let me ask you, if you don't not accept "they" and "them",  are you saying the Jesus Christ had ransomed the Cherubim with his blood at the cross? They both sing the song together.

Are you telling me the heavenly angels sinned, were forgiven and raptured?
The grouping of the elders and the cherubs cannot be "us".

When we are changed, we are always with Christ. Yet, the elders are there with God who holds the book and the cherubs before Christ enters.

Christ it to rule the earth for 1k years and us as well with him. Not heaven. 

When the elders praise God, they are always grouped with the Cherubs separated from the multitude of peoples that we see in heaven. 

The elders are also not reigning with Jesus as they are before the throne worshipping. 

They act as judges commenting on how the things God does is good.

John doesn't recognize the elders, he only sees them as such. They are not people he knew when Christ died. He would have been familiar with those. 

Some other info:
According to biblehub and the Englishman's concordance, [autous] as a Pppro-AM3P, which falls under the translation of Rev 5:10, has 356 occurrences in the bible. Every time it's used, it is always transcribed as “them” and “they”, not “we”!
Even it's definition is: he, she, it, they, them, same.

The other Greek word used is [basileusousin]. It means to reign. According to Thayers Greek Lexicon, he says it is “of the reign of Christians in the millennium, Revelation 5:10; Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 22:5” Hence, the NAS and the NIV both use the proper translation of “they will reign” while the KJV uses “we will reign”.



The use of [basileusousin] only has 4 occurrences. In Rev 5:10 and Rev 22:5, “them” and “they” are used in the NIV, NAS and KJV except Rev 5:10 with the KJV being different. Rev 20:6 and Romans 5:17 both use “will reign” and “shall reign” in the NIV, NAS and KJV.

Then there are more questions then the top on the page one.
1. If the elders were redeemed, how do they appear in heaven before the 5th seal martyrs that are told to wait?

2. Another issue arises in verse 8. It says,


If the rapture had occurred, and the elders are redeemed themselves, why do they have vials which are the prayers of the saints, if the saints are already raptured into heaven and the tribulation hasn't begun yet but is about to happen?
Wouldn't the prayers of the saints be null and void because they would be before the throne of God themselves? Wouldn't they be co-rulers with Christ? Yet they are absent from the throne. Only 24 elders, 4 beast, Christ and God remain there with thousands of angels.

3. So this poses another issue. Why would a saint need to pray if he/she were already raptured? If they were not raptured, what prayers would ascend heaven if the tribulation hasn't happened yet?

Unless, the tribulation has not happened yet and the elders are not redeemed as I believe and the prayers of the saints are going up to heaven still because they are waiting for their king to save them and rapture them still.
The difficulty then is how would elders be in heaven before a rapture? As it is pointed out in John 3:15 when Christ says,


4. How could the elders be raptured before the seals if the AoD had not been set up yet? For Christ says Matthew 24,


The gospel must be preached and then we will see the AoD setup. For then he says in verse 21 

And Daniel 12 follows it by saying,


5. 
Why are Gods servants telling Christ now is the time for reward? Shouldn't Christ tell them that they deserve a reward? If Christ is about to reward ALL his servants,  then they have not been rewarded yet; and the 4 beast and 24 elders will not get rewarded.

6.  In Rev 11, the 24 elders also show that now Christ has begun to reign as he was not reigning YET. This happens at the 7th Trumpet.

Now that Christ has begun to reign, we see that he is about to reward: 
1. prophets,
2. and to the saints,
3. and them that fear thy name, small and great

Then he says after he rewards all these who love him:

Huh, so this is the 7th Trumpet and he hasn't destroyed all them that destroy the earth yet? Then who was destroying the earth? This sounds like the spot where we get out of dodge right before the door is shut (parable of the 10 virgins)

Looks like the door is now shut right after the 7th Trumpet. Hmm well, if Christ begins his reign at the 7th Trumpet and he rewards his saints at the 7th Trumpet and the door is closed after he rewards his saints at the 7th Trumpet to destroy them that destroy the earth...isnt that the resurrection?

According to Rev 20, the first resurrection happens when Christ reigns because we reign with him 1k years. That would place the resurrection at the 7th trumpet when he rewards all those people. 

Thank you yardstick for posting Rev 5:8. In that translation, the living beasts and the elders don’t say they themselves are raptured. They don’t say they are rewarded. They say others are: tribes, people’s, tongues etc with “they” and “them” separating themselves from Christians that will be rewarded with new bodies and reign with Christ

How else could the 4 Cherubs be redeemed by Christ blood?

If we are to follow precept by precept, line by line, here a little there a little - why are verses speaking of a harpazo not mentioned here?

Yet, they ARE mentioned elsewhere in Revelation. I don’t think anyone disregards that the elders are men with white robes and stephanos crowns. The text shows it. But let us not assume and use scripture to back up claims.

John of the gospels is an elder to us. Revelation even states the apostles are equal to the prophets in the structure of the new city. They are the foundation together with Christ the cornerstone.

Yet, these 24 should be elders to them. Who would be a elder to John? Not apostles. Not disciples. Not future redeemed as John is elder to us and likewise a brother in Christ. These elders hold a special place not understood.
Could the elders be in heaven before the law of Moses was made?
Making them seperate from redeemed of Christ.