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Post by witness1 on Apr 16, 2018 7:18:04 GMT -6
venge, you made a good point on another thread about the 5th seal martyrs who did not yet have robes but were under the altar. Does this mean you see this differently now?
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Post by mike on Apr 16, 2018 7:52:06 GMT -6
Hi ally I did watch this video and I don't believe this take to be accurate. I find contradiction in his "theory" when compared to 1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. I would read the entire chapter for context, but I can't ignore "we shall not all sleep", so his theory is flawed Mike, I would say we shall not all sleep because when our Savior comes, some will be awake. That is alive. For first we who are dead (asleep) will be raised and THEN those who remain (not all who are asleep) shall meet them in the clouds and forever be with the Lord. There, asleep means dead. But there is a clincher. If once we are raised from death to the clouds and then we will be forever with the Lord, when we were dead, we were not with the Lord. As that comes after. Therefore, by that logic of that verse, how would you be in heaven with the Lord, then come down to earth to go back up in the clouds to be changed or would you be in heaven and meet you new body in the air? Curious on your outlook. If you are already with the Lord when you die, why would the writer then say you will be forever with the Lord at your transformation? Does that mean you were not with him prior but actually asleep waiting for the resurrection? Venge, I'm not sure if you watched that video posted by ally or not? I was responding specifically to the video as the person explains the rapture is when we die. How I understood it was that he was (now) saying each one us is raptured when we die and omits 1 Cor 15 from his viewpoint. (*Note this same man was posting videos prior to 9/23 that claimed his rapture timeline was "bulletproof") I have long pondered this and still do with no definite conclusion as I don't see enough specifics in scripture. This is one of those areas where I think there are a number of possibilities. 1. Asleep - some believe that the soul/spirit is "dormant" while the body is in the ground, in the sea or any other variety of horrible tragedies that can happen to people when the pass. (I work in insurance and I know of a story where a man worked in a smelting facility and fell into a molten iron vat - vaporized). Is his soul/spirit asleep awaiting his resurrection whether the first or second? IDK. Since some do not have a body to be raised I do not go down that path too far as it really profits me little in the grand scope. 2. Absent from the body present with the Lord - while I would like to believe this version it does present some challenges as I believe you allude to. Do we either go to be with the Lord or to Hell? Well again another rabbit hole to go down which leads to the 3rd 3. Paradise (Abrahams Bosom)/Hades - Are our souls/spirits sent to either holding place until resurrection? Perhaps. But maybe 3b. Some would argue that when Jesus took the keys of death and hell and those who rose from the dead at His resurrection, He "cleared" out both and we are back to #2 |
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Post by venge on Apr 16, 2018 8:07:03 GMT -6
Witness,
I see the martyrs under the alter as having to be in heaven if they are under the alter of God but they have not been raptured yet. As they pray, are dead, and do not have robes yet. Perhaps it is that place we go while we wait? It is a mystery, even as Paul says I show you a mystery...but they are given white robes AFTER others die. They have to wait for a specific time. Ie. The rapture. It shows if it is heaven we go to on death, we wait till our brethren die too and Christ returns. You cannot be raptured before because if it were so, why are they made to wait? There is no second or third rapture for us. Christ the first fruit then we at his coming. This would show what I think of the 24 elders. You cannot be raptured till his coming and you are not made to wait for linen unless it hasn’t happened yet.
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Post by venge on Apr 16, 2018 8:10:39 GMT -6
Mike, I would say we shall not all sleep because when our Savior comes, some will be awake. That is alive. For first we who are dead (asleep) will be raised and THEN those who remain (not all who are asleep) shall meet them in the clouds and forever be with the Lord. There, asleep means dead. But there is a clincher. If once we are raised from death to the clouds and then we will be forever with the Lord, when we were dead, we were not with the Lord. As that comes after. Therefore, by that logic of that verse, how would you be in heaven with the Lord, then come down to earth to go back up in the clouds to be changed or would you be in heaven and meet you new body in the air? Curious on your outlook. If you are already with the Lord when you die, why would the writer then say you will be forever with the Lord at your transformation? Does that mean you were not with him prior but actually asleep waiting for the resurrection? Venge, I'm not sure if you watched that video posted by ally or not? I was responding specifically to the video as the person explains the rapture is when we die. How I understood it was that he was (now) saying each one us is raptured when we die and omits 1 Cor 15 from his viewpoint. (*Note this same man was posting videos prior to 9/23 that claimed his rapture timeline was "bulletproof") I have long pondered this and still do with no definite conclusion as I don't see enough specifics in scripture. This is one of those areas where I think there are a number of possibilities. 1. Asleep - some believe that the soul/spirit is "dormant" while the body is in the ground, in the sea or any other variety of horrible tragedies that can happen to people when the pass. (I work in insurance and I know of a story where a man worked in a smelting facility and fell into a molten iron vat - vaporized). Is his soul/spirit asleep awaiting his resurrection whether the first or second? IDK. Since some do not have a body to be raised I do not go down that path too far as it really profits me little in the grand scope. 2. Absent from the body present with the Lord - while I would like to believe this version it does present some challenges as I believe you allude to. Do we either go to be with the Lord or to Hell? Well again another rabbit hole to go down which leads to the 3rd 3. Paradise (Abrahams Bosom)/Hades - Are our souls/spirits sent to either holding place until resurrection? Perhaps. But maybe 3b. Some would argue that when Jesus took the keys of death and hell and those who rose from the dead at His resurrection, He "cleared" out both and we are back to #2 Not sure what I think on soul sleep. Absent from the body I already said is not used correctly imo. Present in the body, absent from the Lord. I do believe Abraham’s bosom is possible. It makes more sense since one is in hell and in revelation hell gives up the dead to be judged. It isn’t the lake of fire. |
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Post by mike on Apr 16, 2018 8:37:14 GMT -6
venge - IMO this is why I dont "build a doctrine" on it. Not enough support to say 100% for sure. What I can tell people is Christ died to make atonement for us...you know the rest 
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Post by venge on Apr 16, 2018 8:52:32 GMT -6
venge - IMO this is why I dont "build a doctrine" on it. Not enough support to say 100% for sure. What I can tell people is Christ died to make atonement for us...you know the rest Of course. I am not building doctrine either lol. But, everything we need is in His word. Just need to search. This we know: for by grace are ye saved by faith, lest not of yourselves it is a gift of God; not by works lest any any man should boast. And seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you |
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Post by mike on Apr 16, 2018 9:08:17 GMT -6
vengeWhaddaya think of this?? Kinda stumbled on it not looking for it, but I think it makes some sense in answering the question you posed. 1 Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Does this speak to your point? Those who have previously dies (in Christ), Jesus will bring with Him. Does this make you think that those who passed, are coming with Him, are resurrected & reunited then those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them.
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Post by venge on Apr 16, 2018 10:37:39 GMT -6
vengeWhaddaya think of this?? Kinda stumbled on it not looking for it, but I think it makes some sense in answering the question you posed. 1 Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Does this speak to your point? Those who have previously dies (in Christ), Jesus will bring with Him. Does this make you think that those who passed, are coming with Him, are resurrected & reunited then those who are alive and remain are caught up together with them. Difficult to say. Last sentence says dead in Christ [those who sleep or those who died in Christ by beheading?] To live in Christ and die is gain. For the best sacrifice one can have is to die for another namely Christ. So, I don’t know yet. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 16, 2018 12:47:06 GMT -6
From the study notes of J. Vernon McGee on 1 Thessalonians:
v. 13 — “I would not have you to be ignorant” is Paul’s diplomatic
method of dealing with the ignorance of believers. He meant they were
ignorant, but he does not speak that bluntly.
“Who are asleep” is who are sleeping.
“Sleeping” (Greek koimaomai) means lying sleep. This word is used
for natural sleep also (see Luke 22:45; Acts 12:6). The same word is
used for the death of the body — never the soul. The very nature of the
word prevents use of the term “soul sleep.”
The death of a believer’s body is called sleep because:
(1) A sleeping body and a dead body are similar. The sleeper does not
cease to exist — the inference is that a dead person does not cease to
exist. Sleep is temporary — death is also. Sleep has its waking; death
has its resurrection.
(2) The word comes from the Greek keimai, which means to lie
down. Only a body can lie down — certainly not a soul. By the same
token, only the body is spoken of in resurrection. The word for “resurrection”
is the Greek anastasis which means to stand up. A soul can
neither lie down nor stand up!
(3) God created man (his body) out of the dust of the earth and
breathed into him the breath (soul or spirit) of life; and man became a
living soul (see Genesis 2:7). When man sinned, God pronounced this
judgment:
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for
dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Genesis
3:19)
The body returns to the dust, but the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the
spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. (Ecclesiastes
12:7)
For a Christian, death means to be absent from the body and to be present
or at home with the Lord. The body is merely a frail tent that is laid
aside temporarily (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 2 Corinthians 5:1-9;
Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 16, 2018 13:08:02 GMT -6
just my two cents, or maybe one and a half cents... I think a lot of misunderstanding comes from the interpretation of certain words into the word 'hell'. Tartaros was interpreted 'hell' in 2 Pet. 2:4 as the place the angels that sinned were sent. My thinking here is that not all of the sinning angels were allowed to roam the earth as satan does, as there is the verse where the 'angel was given the key to the bottomless pit'. Is that not where Abbadon/Apollyous is currently residing? So Tartaro=the bottomless pit. The sinning angels later all get cast into 'géenna', strongs' 1067, Gehenna or The Lake of Fire. But then there is Hades. Jesus Christ Himself descended into Hades, Eph. 4:9. Depending on the version, Hades gets translated 'hell'. I remember back in my catholic days that when the priest is doing his 'magic' as I like to call it now, he states that our Lord Jesus 'descended into hell'. He was buried in a grave. He went to sleep as He Himself said of Lazarus.
Having said all that, I think of it this way; When we die, we all go to hell/the grave, to sleep until our Lord returns. Those who are not in Christ remain asleep until it is time for their judgement. Which brings up another thought/idea... Ezekiel 37 describes the whole nation of Israel who have died as being stitched back together into the flesh! v.8-10 "And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army." Our Father will put His Spirit in them, just as we are NOW! Then He will put them back in the land where they should be "And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD." v.14 Will this happen to everyone who has not known the Gospel of Truth? Bring them back to physical life, give them the Holy Spirit and then teach them the truth and give them the choice they deserve? I mean, even we have a choice right now, to reject the truth.
Anyway, I think, from reading this thread that everyone understands what happens to the sinning angels in the end. The question is what happens to us and those who do not know Jesus Christ when they/we die before Jesus returns. I think the most merciful is that we just sleep(no accounting for time during death), those in Christ rise when He returns and everyone else remains asleep until our Heavenly Father raises them, each in their time.
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Post by venge on Apr 16, 2018 17:39:10 GMT -6
From the study notes of J. Vernon McGee on 1 Thessalonians: v. 13 — “I would not have you to be ignorant” is Paul’s diplomatic method of dealing with the ignorance of believers. He meant they were ignorant, but he does not speak that bluntly. “Who are asleep” is who are sleeping. “Sleeping” (Greek koimaomai) means lying sleep. This word is used for natural sleep also (see Luke 22:45; Acts 12:6). The same word is used for the death of the body — never the soul. The very nature of the word prevents use of the term “soul sleep.” The death of a believer’s body is called sleep because: (1) A sleeping body and a dead body are similar. The sleeper does not cease to exist — the inference is that a dead person does not cease to exist. Sleep is temporary — death is also. Sleep has its waking; death has its resurrection. (2) The word comes from the Greek keimai, which means to lie down. Only a body can lie down — certainly not a soul. By the same token, only the body is spoken of in resurrection. The word for “resurrection” is the Greek anastasis which means to stand up. A soul can neither lie down nor stand up! (3) God created man (his body) out of the dust of the earth and breathed into him the breath (soul or spirit) of life; and man became a living soul (see Genesis 2:7). When man sinned, God pronounced this judgment: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for
dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Genesis
3:19)
The body returns to the dust, but the spirit returns to God who gave it. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the
spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. (Ecclesiastes
12:7)
For a Christian, death means to be absent from the body and to be present or at home with the Lord. The body is merely a frail tent that is laid aside temporarily (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 2 Corinthians 5:1-9; Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 5:23). I like the verse you found in Ecclesiastes. I will study that more. In regards to your last: If death is absent from the body and present with the Lord then why did Paul say While we are present in the body we are absent from the Lord? And why did he say, Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. He was not talking about death and going to heaven. The verse opens: He did not want to be found naked. That is without white linen, the clothing of the saints. To be naked is not to be resurrected. Then he says in verses 6-8 following not wanting to be naked and receiving white linen robes to know he is righteous We are always confident vs we are confident and willing rather.......We are ALWAYS confident while we are here on the earth in our body full of sin, our flesh, we are absent from the Lord But, we'd rather be absent from that same sinful body and be present with the Lord because sin is a separation from God. Isa 59:2 Continuing in Verse 9-11 In order to receive white linen, the clothing of saints, we in our flesh are absent from God but we'd rather be with God and absent from our sins so that we may win Christ Therefore we LABOUR. Why? Because we all appear before God's throne. We take a count of what we did in our life. So what do we do? We labour so that we may be accepted of him. The verses are talking about laboring for and winning Christ; and receiving the clothing of saints. Not going straight to heaven. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 16, 2018 19:26:53 GMT -6
From the study notes of J. Vernon McGee on 1 Thessalonians: v. 13 — “I would not have you to be ignorant” is Paul’s diplomatic method of dealing with the ignorance of believers. He meant they were ignorant, but he does not speak that bluntly. “Who are asleep” is who are sleeping. “Sleeping” (Greek koimaomai) means lying sleep. This word is used for natural sleep also (see Luke 22:45; Acts 12:6). The same word is used for the death of the body — never the soul. The very nature of the word prevents use of the term “soul sleep.” The death of a believer’s body is called sleep because: (1) A sleeping body and a dead body are similar. The sleeper does not cease to exist — the inference is that a dead person does not cease to exist. Sleep is temporary — death is also. Sleep has its waking; death has its resurrection. (2) The word comes from the Greek keimai, which means to lie down. Only a body can lie down — certainly not a soul. By the same token, only the body is spoken of in resurrection. The word for “resurrection” is the Greek anastasis which means to stand up. A soul can neither lie down nor stand up! (3) God created man (his body) out of the dust of the earth and breathed into him the breath (soul or spirit) of life; and man became a living soul (see Genesis 2:7). When man sinned, God pronounced this judgment: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for
dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Genesis
3:19)
The body returns to the dust, but the spirit returns to God who gave it. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the
spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. (Ecclesiastes
12:7)
For a Christian, death means to be absent from the body and to be present or at home with the Lord. The body is merely a frail tent that is laid aside temporarily (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 2 Corinthians 5:1-9; Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 5:23). I like the verse you found in Ecclesiastes. I will study that more. In regards to your last: If death is absent from the body and present with the Lord then why did Paul say While we are present in the body we are absent from the Lord? And why did he say, Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. He was not talking about death and going to heaven. The verse opens: He did not want to be found naked. That is without white linen, the clothing of the saints. To be naked is not to be resurrected. Then he says in verses 6-8 following not wanting to be naked and receiving white linen robes to know he is righteous We are always confident vs we are confident and willing rather.......We are ALWAYS confident while we are here on the earth in our body full of sin, our flesh, we are absent from the Lord But, we'd rather be absent from that same sinful body and be present with the Lord because sin is a separation from God. Isa 59:2 Continuing in Verse 9-11 In order to receive white linen, the clothing of saints, we in our flesh are absent from God but we'd rather be with God and absent from our sins so that we may win Christ Therefore we LABOUR. Why? Because we all appear before God's throne. We take a count of what we did in our life. So what do we do? We labour so that we may be accepted of him. The verses are talking about laboring for and winning Christ; and receiving the clothing of saints. Not going straight to heaven. Venge, what we are groaning for isn't white robes (though we will get those). He is talking about our glorified bodies. That is the house Paul speaks of. The tabernacle (Holy Spirit indwells this temple) we currently have is a body of flesh. While we are in this body of flesh (not sleeping), we are absent from the Lord. Our soul/spirit is in this body of flesh. When we go to sleep, our body goes into the grave to await resurrection, our soul/spirit will return to God if we have been born again. We who are born again are no longer separated from God. We've been reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus. We are kings and priests and thus can enter in to the throne room of God...now...boldy! At the Bema seat judgement, there will be no review of sins...it's rather for rewards...have we stored any treasure or will our works be burned up? For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. We've already been accepted and we don't have to work for our justification. The blood of Christ has purchased our justification. Our labor is a labor of love, slaves to Christ and His agenda working in us, empowered by the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 16, 2018 19:49:10 GMT -6
Ecclesiates 12 is speaking of old age. Verse 1 He reminds us to remember our youth when we could think and see clearly before days of trouble come. I'm just barely getting there at almost 55, things are starting to go downhill. My Dad is 90 and I can tell you just by talking to him he finds little pleasure in lingering on past the death of his wife of 68 years. Mom died in '16 at 88 years old. Verses 2-5 describe that old age. Things get dimmer, the hearing goes, 'the sound of the grinding fades...bird's songs grow faint'. verses 6-7, once again reminding us to remember Him before we die and the spirit returns to God who gave it. All spirits return to God...eventually...to be judged. This verse doesn't say when that happens, just that it will happen. I don't believe this implies that we go to Heaven as soon as we die. Also, back in Verse 1, venge, the line "“I find no pleasure in them” goes right along also with what you are saying about living in the flesh right now. We find no pleasure in it. We want to be with God in Heaven, but as long as we are here, alive, on Earth in the flesh, we sin. And we find no pleasure in it because we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. We labor because we have the Holy Spirit, but it is not us that is laboring, it is the Holy Spirit laboring in us. We cannot do anything but sin. Jesus Christ hides this sin, when/if we repent, before God the Father, so that we can stand before him ourselves, blameless, when that time comes. The Teacher, Solomon I presume, goes on to say that this life, 'in this world, where we have to work and toil', is "meaningless" v.8. And it is! "All is vanity and striving after wind" Eccl 1:4 He goes on to say that the only important thing in life is to; "Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil." v.13-14 Even though every deed will be judged, we have our Savior Jesus Christ that will stand with each and every one of us, striking out every evil deed we have committed because we chose to follow Him in this life.
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Post by venge on Apr 17, 2018 5:05:01 GMT -6
I like the verse you found in Ecclesiastes. I will study that more. In regards to your last: If death is absent from the body and present with the Lord then why did Paul say While we are present in the body we are absent from the Lord? And why did he say, Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. He was not talking about death and going to heaven. The verse opens: He did not want to be found naked. That is without white linen, the clothing of the saints. To be naked is not to be resurrected. Then he says in verses 6-8 following not wanting to be naked and receiving white linen robes to know he is righteous We are always confident vs we are confident and willing rather.......We are ALWAYS confident while we are here on the earth in our body full of sin, our flesh, we are absent from the Lord But, we'd rather be absent from that same sinful body and be present with the Lord because sin is a separation from God. Isa 59:2 Continuing in Verse 9-11 In order to receive white linen, the clothing of saints, we in our flesh are absent from God but we'd rather be with God and absent from our sins so that we may win Christ Therefore we LABOUR. Why? Because we all appear before God's throne. We take a count of what we did in our life. So what do we do? We labour so that we may be accepted of him. The verses are talking about laboring for and winning Christ; and receiving the clothing of saints. Not going straight to heaven. Venge, what we are groaning for isn't white robes (though we will get those). He is talking about our glorified bodies. That is the house Paul speaks of. The tabernacle (Holy Spirit indwells this temple) we currently have is a body of flesh. While we are in this body of flesh (not sleeping), we are absent from the Lord. Our soul/spirit is in this body of flesh. When we go to sleep, our body goes into the grave to await resurrection, our soul/spirit will return to God if we have been born again. We who are born again are no longer separated from God. We've been reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus. We are kings and priests and thus can enter in to the throne room of God...now...boldy! At the Bema seat judgement, there will be no review of sins...it's rather for rewards...have we stored any treasure or will our works be burned up? For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. We've already been accepted and we don't have to work for our justification. The blood of Christ has purchased our justification. Our labor is a labor of love, slaves to Christ and His agenda working in us, empowered by the Holy Spirit. Fitz, He starts off talking about clothes vs no clothes. Then, he moves to living with sin and not sin Then, he speaks of laboring whether in either of the 2. In order to not be naked; in order to attain those clothes. But to take 1 verse and then define it as it means we die we go to heaven....I find that to be misinterpretation of this particular verse. Not the subject of going to heaven or how we get there, just this verse. Why not say, when we are present with the body we are absent from the Lord. That takes difficulty in explaining without realizing it isn’t saying what others say the following verse means. I feel like this is something we don’t agree on but if your gonna use the verse, then use the other with it. |
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Post by fitz on Apr 17, 2018 5:15:59 GMT -6
Venge, I've read it. He begins in chapter 5 talking about a house, a tabernacle. He says "clothed", but he is not talking about clothes. He is talking about earthly, fleshly bodies and heavenly, glorified bodies. Perhaps it would be helpful for you to read a modern English translation to understand it better? 2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him. 10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body. |
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