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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 11:22:21 GMT -6
You are correct that I have not read your thread. I am still on page 3 😩. This is mostly due to time constraints, but I also wanted to seek things out without any suppositions or preconceived ideas. I want to flesh out what I’m thinking about before adding any other thoughts to the mix. I recently have felt very compelled to finish writing the ideas I have though and then hurry to catch up on your thread since it certainly seems somehow pertinent to this one. I was planning on sharing the bit from John 4 this evening, but I decided to start writing it this morning and see how far I got, and lo and behold I decided it had come together well enough and could be shared sooner. Looking forward to seeing what the Lord does here and am thankful if He uses me in some small way.
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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 14:31:30 GMT -6
Going back to the story of the Samaritan woman at the well and the four months until harvest, let's look further at verses 37 and 38:
37For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”
What is being sown and what is being reaped? Who is the sower and who is the reaper? Who are we, and more importantly, who is Jesus?
The idea here is that we, the workers of the field, will reap that which we did not sow. Others have labored, and we simply enter in with the threshing sickle and reap the harvest. Who has labored that we have the privilege to do this? Certainly believers who have come before us. Others have sown seeds in the past. Many people hear the gospel several times before professing to believe it and the time we proclaim it may just be the time they believe. But above other believers in our day, those who have gone before us are the disciples, the prophets, and most importantly, Jesus. He is the one who did the work. Apart from Him, there would be nothing to harvest. He is the one who has labored on our behalf, and we need only to enter into His labor.
What did Jesus sow? The answer of course, is Himself. And this is where I see what I believe to be the meaning of the verse in my dream:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." John 12:24
What Jesus sowed is Himself. He likens Himself to a grain of wheat that must die to bear fruit. This fruit is salvation for many through the death of one man, the second Adam. The fruit is also the Holy Spirit (fruit of the spirit?) that comes after Jesus' ascension:
"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you." John 16:7
I'm not sure how to clearly explain my train of thought here, and I don't really have any proof to offer on this concept right now. It's an idea that you either accept or reject.
Here is my train of thought:
There is a crop to be harvested (using the analogy of 4 months: spring wheat) >>> something is sown and we reap what is sown >>> what is sown is Jesus Himself >>> Jesus dies and His death bears fruit >>> the fruit is Salvation but also the giving of the Holy Spirit >>> the Spirit came at Pentecost.
Jesus, the seed that was sown to bring the fruit of the Holy Spirit, was sown in the 1st month. Passover is the 14th day of the first month. He was sown at the time the spring wheat was planted. Is it possible that the Holy Spirit, the fruit of Jesus' death, came 100 days after His death (~60 days after His ascension) at a summer Pentecost?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 15, 2017 16:44:14 GMT -6
wit! Keep doing what you are doing, and keep listening to the Lord as you are searching these Scriptures. Try, if you can, not to peek at SK's Restoration thread. I dont mean this for some test of you or both of you. Moreso I am seeing your perspective, your epiphanies if you will, paralleling SK. Is this not the Holy Spirit in action? Call me crazy, or call me Called...
gotta set up another ream of paper for the printer!
blessings wit1 !
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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 19:58:38 GMT -6
Well, I confess to peeking at the thread after I finished my last post on John 12:24. That was the last thing I've really been thinking hard about, so after I got it out I decided to see what was going on over there because I really do feel led to get caught up. I didn't see much except that SK says there are 3 resurrections and that the first resurrection is post-trib and he has a different view of the tribulation. It became apparent that I really need to read from the beginning and not try to jump in, so I still feel like I don't know much. But, I will not peek from here on out! Do you think I can continue reading the beginning?
EDIT: The brevity of this post was intended to convey the fact that I don’t know much about what’s going on in SKs thread. This, I’m sure, is extremely over-generalized, and I very much doubt that SK is “post trib” in any traditional sense. I hope the statement above didn’t misrepresent him... please check out his thread!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 20:12:51 GMT -6
Well, I confess to peeking at the thread after I finished my last post on John 12:24. That was the last thing I've really been thinking hard about, so after I got it out I decided to see what was going on over there because I really do feel led to get caught up. I didn't see much except that SK says are 3 resurrections and that the first resurrection is post-trib and he has a different view of the tribulation. It became apparent that I really need to read from the beginning and not try to jump in, so I still feel like I don't know much. But, I will not peek from here on out! Do you think I can continue reading the beginning? Hey witness1, whatever you feel led to is fine. I think there is a lot to cover before you come to much overlap, so starting at the beginning should be safe. Just to clarify though, cause I don't want it out there that I am post-trip (you know what that can do to a guys social life!  ), my position was more complicated then pre / post / mid, etc. But there is a lot of background to catch up to the concepts I recently posted. I posted, in your thread, some of the confirming overlaps so you wouldn't have to dig for them and really, I just wanted to encourage you by letting you know the Lord was speaking! |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 20:33:04 GMT -6
So I keep seeing these wheels. When I took dinner to my Jewish friend last night, I noticed they have a beautiful one with the Hebrew alphabet over their mantle. It really jumped out at me. Now, in looking at the feasts, I am seeing them pop up. Here are a few examples of the alphabet (I am really driven to study the one with the verses after seeing this! I googled "Hebrew alphabet circle"):   First, this reminds me of one of Paul Dawson's videos with the Jupiter conjunctions. It formed an incredible pattern, but I don't recall the specifics. So it seems like these wheels are a thing to do with the Hebrew alphabet and also with the Hebrew calendar. I found several of these as well, but this one looks the most clear for my thought:  This seems to be a calendar created by someone who has held the traditional Feast of Trumpets rapture >>> Yom Kippur return. It has Pentecost marked in the place we have always understood it to be... 50 days after first fruits which is in the 3rd month. (Nissan is the first month, although it's Abib in the Bible). So... you should know this about me... I have a BS in math and I love symmetry. I love that our God is a God of symmetry and order. Paul Dawson has shown some incredible patterns in the stars, and the Golden Ratio has always been one of my favorite discoveries of all time. I even have a water bottle formed in the Golden Ratio that somehow changes the structure of the water to what real "living water" should be like, and I can actually tell a taste difference. Anyway... now that you know how nerdy I am, maybe you can appreciate this more. THIS CALENDAR DRIVES ME CRAZY!!! Have you ever seen that one dumb video on facebook where they do a bunch of annoying things to drive type A people crazy? They mix skittles and m&ms. They cut a round cake extremely unevenly. I don't remember the rest, but you get the idea. This calendar reminds me of that. It feels like nails on a chalkboard to me. You know what would take a little of the tension away? Allow me to exhale this anxiety? If Pentecost were to be nicely in the middle of Nissan and Tishrei. Like in the 4th month of Tammuz. Wouldn't that look so much better? Is there any chance that's where it is really supposed to be? Is there any chance that Second Temple Judaism got it just a little bit wrong? You know what else is interesting about this? If this 12/31 idea were to play out... guess which quadrant that would be in? December 31 is Tevet 13. It may or may not happen, but that sure would make a nice, symmetrical picture. EDIT: Here's the video in case you care to watch it. I have never made it all the way through. EDIT; Hopefully it’s clear that the need for symmetry is just my opinion 😂 |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 21:03:30 GMT -6
Well, I confess to peeking at the thread after I finished my last post on John 12:24. That was the last thing I've really been thinking hard about, so after I got it out I decided to see what was going on over there because I really do feel led to get caught up. I didn't see much except that SK says are 3 resurrections and that the first resurrection is post-trib and he has a different view of the tribulation. It became apparent that I really need to read from the beginning and not try to jump in, so I still feel like I don't know much. But, I will not peek from here on out! Do you think I can continue reading the beginning? Hey witness1, whatever you feel led to is fine. I think there is a lot to cover before you come to much overlap, so starting at the beginning should be safe. Just to clarify though, cause I don't want it out there that I am post-trip (you know what that can do to a guys social life! ), my position was more complicated then pre / post / mid, etc. But there is a lot of background to catch up to the concepts I recently posted. I posted, in your thread, some of the confirming overlaps so you wouldn't have to dig for them and really, I just wanted to encourage you by letting you know the Lord was speaking! Social life... Tee hee  My apologies. Yes, I could tell it was quite more complicated than pre/post/mid. Perhaps I should delete that post? I am sorry. I am quite encouraged that the Lord is speaking! I have shared everything I have been thinking about thus far though. I have a few random ideas here and there, but they will take time. I may be a one-trick pony! It is awesome to realize the Lord has spoken, and I am looking forward to seeing how it all comes together! |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 15, 2017 21:45:41 GMT -6
witness1, by all means peek. And do start from the beginning. I will say I must have been having some spiritual giddiness or something because both of you guys are creating a reaction within my thought process that its like, eating the sweetest watermelon on the hottest day of the year and finding yourself capable of eating that entire 10 lb watermelon. You cant eat it fast enough and your face is full of pink water, and never mind trying to spit out the seeds..
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Post by witness1 on Dec 16, 2017 11:39:08 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl, that is a beautiful word picture! I cannot wait to catch up and be likewise encouraged. Thank you for letting me know!
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Post by witness1 on Dec 16, 2017 11:42:34 GMT -6
I unfortunately don't have time to dive into this right now, but here is a scripture discussing the wheat and grapes being harvested together:
Nehemiah 13:10-18
10I also found out that the portions of the Levites had not been given to them, so that the Levites and the singers, who did the work, had fled each to his field. 11So I confronted the officials and said, “Why is the house of God forsaken?” And I gathered them together and set them in their stations. 12Then all Judah brought the tithe of the grain, wine, and oil into the storehouses. 13And I appointed as treasurers over the storehouses Shelemiah the priest, Zadok the scribe, and Pedaiah of the Levites, and as their assistant Hanan the son of Zaccur, son of Mattaniah, for they were considered reliable, and their duty was to distribute to their brothers. 14Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and do not wipe out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God and for his service.
15In those days I saw in Judah people treading winepresses on the Sabbath, and bringing in heaps of grain and loading them on donkeys, and also wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of loads, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. And I warned them on the day when they sold food. 16Tyrians also, who lived in the city, brought in fish and all kinds of goods and sold them on the Sabbath to the people of Judah, in Jerusalem itself! 17Then I confronted the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing that you are doing, profaning the Sabbath day? 18Did not your fathers act in this way, and did not our God bring all this disaster on us and on this city? Now you are bringing more wrath on Israel by profaning the Sabbath.”
I have no idea what this means, and we have a playdate with a neighbor with whom I've been sharing Jesus for about 5 years now so I can't search it out just yet. Leaving this in case it helps @silentknight with what he is working on. Prayers appreciated for our time with my friend!
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Post by witness1 on Dec 23, 2017 14:50:49 GMT -6
As I have continued to look at the Leviticus count, I am growing more and more convinced that counting 99 days would make sense. I am linking an article here which is absolutely worth reading... so much symbolism and beauty regarding the Torah being a wedding linked to an agricultural harvest. I am copying part of it below: “And indeed, if counting is a significant aspect of Shavuot, notes the illustrious Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch, there is something about the numbers which just doesn't add up. "And you shall count for yourselves from the morrow after the day of rest, from the day that you brought the omer of the wave offering; seven complete sabbaths shall there be: to the morrow after the seventh complete sabbath shall you number fifty days and you shall offer a new meal offering to G-d." [22 Lev. 23:15-16] These verses refer to the festival of Shavuot. After completing a seven week count, forty-nine days, we bring the meal offering to G-d on the fiftieth day, which is the festival of Shavuot. This is simple enough until we compare actual dates, and a discrepancy seems to emerge regarding the giving of the Torah on Sinai and the count of the fiftieth day. The Bible tells us that the Jews took the Paschal lamb on the 10th day of Nisan, and the Midrash records that it fell on the Sabbath, which is why we call the Sabbath before the festival of Pesach the Great Sabbath (Shabbat Hagadol). Since the Israelites left Egypt on the 15th of Nisan (the Biblical date of the festival itself), they had to have left that first year on a Thursday, the fifth day after the Shabbat. Since the fifty-day count begins the day after the first day of the festival ("..count for yourselves from the morrow after the day of rest.."), it turns out that the first day of the count that first year was on a Friday, and upon counting seven complete weeks, the fiftieth day must likewise fall out on a Friday, seemingly the day of the festival that the verse in Leviticus refers to as Shavuot. But the Midrash insists that the giving of the Torah on Mt. Sinai took place on the Sabbath! Well, the Sabbath that year was obviously the fifty-first day after the start of the count. Then according to the actual chronology, the fiftieth day was the day before the Israelites received the Torah from G-d?!” This article suggests that the giving of the law would have to have taken place on the 51st day in order to be on a Sabbath, but perhaps we should look at day 99/100. If we consider the LAST DAY of the 40 days Moses was up on the mountain to have been the actual Pentecost “day”, which I think we should, then that day would have indeed been on the Sabbath like the Midrash says. For those who are new to this thread, the reason I think we should count the LAST DAY of the 40 days in Exodus (which would be day 99/100 from First Fruits) as the Pentecost day is because: 1) That was the day the law was written with God’s hand in stone. This corresponds to the Holy Spirit writing the law on our hearts in acts 2. On day 50, the law was written in Moses’ hand and only included the moral law and 10 commandments. God had not yet given the ceremonial law or written it himself. 2) That is the day 3000 were slain and the Levites were ordained as priests. On the day of Pentecost in Acts, 3000 were saved and the disciples and apostles were ready to begin ministry. 3) Similar to point 2, it was on that day when it was clear who belonged to God and who didn’t. The same with the fire in Acts and will be the same with the rapture. You either had the fire or you didn’t. You’re either raptured or you’re left behind. If we are to choose 1 day to be “Pentecost”, I see a lot of evidence that it should be the LAST DAY of the 40 days Moses was on the mountain. Read this article if you have time! philologos.org/bpr/files/s005.htm |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 23, 2017 15:23:57 GMT -6
Now, the question is whether it makes sense to count these 99 days from Sept 23. Nowhere in scripture does it say that the Great Sign was for counting. BUT, people did a lot of counting from the blood moons and came up with some pretty fascinating stuff. The message to look at Virgo. Strong’s concordance Harpazo. I admit some of that counting frustrated me, but it is hard to deny the messages presented when days were counted.
Since scripture doesn’t say the sign was for counting, is there anything to indicate that counting from that day would be valid? What if we counted from that day and then decided if it might make sense? For example, what if that day “happened” (I’m looking at you, Book of Ruth) to land on a Sunday? What if that day “happened” to have a full moon with it? Or better yet, a super moon? What if that day “happened” to have some association wih Enoch? What if that day “happened” to be a very famous midnight and the parable of the Virgins says the groom’s cry was heard at midnight and Boaz discovered Ruth at midnight? What if that day happened to still, barely, fall in the year 2017, which we believe to be important?
Personalities aside, I think Dec 31 is a very exciting possibility. If it doesn’t happen that day, I personally will be looking in June at when I believe the “true Pentecost” will take place. Based on everything I’ve read, especially the article above, Pentecost makes a lot of sense. BUT, weddings are not permitted on Pentecost... so some day that connects to Pentecost but isn’t Pentecost is quite interesting.
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Post by witness1 on Dec 23, 2017 15:58:39 GMT -6
In a moment they die; at midnight the people are shaken and pass away, and the mighty are taken away by no human hand. - Job 34:20
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Post by davewatchman on Dec 23, 2017 19:38:14 GMT -6
Now, the question is whether it makes sense to count these 99 days from Sept 23. Nowhere in scripture does it say that the Great Sign was for counting. BUT, people did a lot of counting from the blood moons and came up with some pretty fascinating stuff. The message to look at Virgo. Strong’s concordance Harpazo. I admit some of that counting frustrated me, but it is hard to deny the messages presented when days were counted. Since scripture doesn’t say the sign was for counting, is there anything to indicate that counting from that day would be valid? What if we counted from that day and then decided if it might make sense? For example, what if that day “happened” (I’m looking at you, Book of Ruth) to land on a Sunday? What if that day “happened” to have a full moon with it? Or better yet, a super moon? What if that day “happened” to have some association wih Enoch? What if that day “happened” to be a very famous midnight and the parable of the Virgins says the groom’s cry was heard at midnight and Boaz discovered Ruth at midnight? What if that day happened to still, barely, fall in the year 2017, which we believe to be important? Personalities aside, I think Dec 31 is a very exciting possibility. If it doesn’t happen that day, I personally will be looking in June at when I believe the “true Pentecost” will take place. Based on everything I’ve read, especially the article above, Pentecost makes a lot of sense. BUT, weddings are not permitted on Pentecost... so some day that connects to Pentecost but isn’t Pentecost is quite interesting. I don't think it's wrong to count from the great sign. I count from many of the celestial signs and find what I think are numerical connections to the end time events. I'm just not immediately convinced that counting 99 days from Sept 23 is the intended reason for the sign. I just don't know, or hesitate to say the things that come to mind. I can't say what will happen next. Can you remember after 9/23, there were people doing videos claiming 9/24 also met with the required specifications of "the sign". Some were saying that 9/24 did a better job of situating the woman with the moon under her feet. I think that the sign is for real. I think that 12/31 is for real. I'm on pins and needles even a week before, or a week after that day for anything else that might happen. But what I think the sign is intended for is different than what the majority of the traditional end time understanding would be. I think the sign is confirming that we are on the final approach for the tribulation, the thing that Jesus was talking about when He said: "for then there will be great tribulation". I think the main important specification of the Revelation 12 sign is the conjunction involving Jupiter and Venus. That conjunction points to, or marks out, the setting of the third and last watch of the night. Are these not the days that had to be cut short? Count seven "sevens" from that day until 12/31. Those 49 days are cut off from one of the three 420 day segments of the main 1260 day span. When you subtract 49 days from 420, you have the 371 "days of Noah". There are 371 days from 12/31 until the sun is "darkened" and the moon will not give it's light. It's also 420 days from the conjunction, until the "darkened" sun. But I can't tell if 12/31 would be the equivalent to the day that Noah was sealed inside the ark, or if it represents the seven days before. That's why I'd also be suspicious of January 7 if New Years Eve proves uneventful. I know that sounds strange. But the first time Jesus came, they thought John the Baptizer was strange in his camel hair suit and leather belt, eating locusts by the river Jordan. Most of the people at that time did not recognize the time of their Visitation. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 28, 2017 14:39:58 GMT -6
I have been thinking more about that golden calf, and I believe this was Israel trying to keep the feast of weeks. We have always thought them foolish to so quickly forget God when Moses took so long on the mountain. I mean, He had just led them out of Egypt. They had seen everything He did with the plagues and the Red Sea and the Manna and the water from the rock. Yet they still made another god. But they made this god, and Aaron said, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD." - Exodus 32:5
Aaron was not holding a feast to the calf. He was holding a feast to the Lord, as the Lord had commanded. (Of course he should not have built the golden calf...) The Israelites panicked because they had been counting the 7 sabbaths and 50 days. It was time for the feast yet God was not there. So they did like Abraham with Hagar and took matters into their own hands in order to fulfill what the Lord commanded.
I still think there is good reason to believe the long Pentecost count is true, and this is another reason. This feast the Israelites held to the Lord, with sacrifices for sin offering and peace offering, would have been on the 99/100 day from the feast of first fruits. The same day the Lord wrote the commandments in stone, the day the Levites were ordained, and the day the 3000 were slain. This was the day of Pentecost.
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), my position was more complicated then pre / post / mid, etc. 
My apologies. Yes, I could tell it was quite more complicated than pre/post/mid. Perhaps I should delete that post? I am sorry.
