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Post by witness1 on Dec 13, 2017 20:49:46 GMT -6
Just adding a bit as to the "what God tells us" concerns: In my experience - God doesn't always "tell" me something directly. Sometimes He gives me urges, curiosities, driving desires to figure something out- like that. I mention a variety of ways that He speaks to me in another thread, but only one of them is with direct spiritual words. So, from that stand point, I would say that God is telling me to become more familiar with particular part of the Israelite journey, the 8 trips up the mountain, the timing of those trips and what the results were, etc. But from the stand point of, Did God whisper into my spirit the actual counting of weeks issue, well no. As a matter of fact, I am not convinced that there is a reason to change that count at all for reasons I posted in the other thread - however, I do think there is more to the message that Christianity could benefit from and that there is at least another 40 days that need study - possibly 50. And that that there were two wheat harvests in much of this area - winter and summer - and that the second harvest was typically ready about 50 days after the first. So, makes you go, hmmmm.
Ok - witness1 , please forgive my indulgence here - but I would like to do a bit of exhortation: The "God is not a God of confusion" issue: I know there is a verse that says: 1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.But this is almost always used in a way not intended by Paul - unless we also want to start following the next verses:1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
I occasionally will bring up these types of situations to help illustrate that there is a difference between confusion - and hiding truth: Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
@timeoftheend, I want to be clear, that I am not saying this against what you are saying - I'm putting this into the thread so that we all can see that God is a God who conceals things - sometimes it is so we can search it out, and sometimes it is for other reasons. Now, in this case, I think timeoftheend is using the "God of Confusion" concept properly - that is, in relation to prophetic utterances as we see in the verses leading up to the popular verse: 1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
And so, we have a situation where one may prophesy and another may confirm the word, or even add onto the word, but that prophets should be subject to other prophets and thereby keep the church from hearing many different directions of prophetic words. Keep the church from confusion - same applies to speaking in tongues when there is no one to interpret your words. Be silent. It seems to me that this is what timeoftheend is asking - "Are we doing this here? Or are we not?" In much of today's Christianity we have confused this whole process so much that we are, in fact, confused. Some churches teach that everyone is hearing God all the time and we are constantly stopping to listen to what God is telling everyone. Other churches teach that the gifts are dead and that no one can hear a word from God. So we are not used to following a scriptural pattern when giving words from the Lord.
I tend to be very low key about this area, because of how it is often abused by people - but, I think this subject of counting the weeks has brought up two sides to this idea of confirming a word of the Lord. And I think we, as a body, can learn from this. In one thread, the confirmation is not there in my spirit. In this thread, confirmation is there. Both threads are saying similar things. And according to my gifting, this is the thread that I am confirming thus far. I know that doesn't mean much to most since we are a dispersed body and you all don't know me. Hopefully, my posts here at unsealed have helped each of you to judge these matters. It may provide comfort to some and it explains why I am engaged here. I am waiting to see what the Lord tells us through witness1. So far, this thread has played out exactly like this: 1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Makes me wonder if we should appoint another role, similar to a moderator, that, stands up or sits down, in relation to threads that are claiming, or hinting, to speak for God.
I truly hope this is received by all with the spirit I intended. I see how it could be easily misinterpreted. Now, I really must pipe down because I am wanting to listen to witness1! SK with wisdom as always. Thank you! There is so much I would love to comment on from above, but the 2 year old didn't nap, my phone and laptop had to go to the apple store, I needed to take dinner to my dear friend who just got home from open heart surgery (the Jewish man I mentioned earlier... I hope he recovers quickly because I can't wait to pick his brain!!!), and now it's 9:30 and I'm just starting my writing for the day. So many thoughts and so little uninterrupted time to write them down. The fact that we don't know each other in person is a huge hinderance I think. I do believe your posts have allowed us to judge you rightly, and I pray that mine will as well. I love the idea of a moderator. Is this something you would be interested in SK? I think you have demonstrated wisdom, kindness, an unbiased opinion, and an ability to discern the spirit. Whether you are appointed to an "official" position or not, I think you naturally interject and "stand up/sit down" according to what is needed. Thank you for your support and Christlike example thus far. I appreciate any comments. I feel extremely ill-equipped to lead this conversation. If God does anything through this, the glory will be to Him alone. |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 13, 2017 21:27:54 GMT -6
witness1 I like your approach so far. I am weak in detailed knowledge of the OT in general. Its not that I prefer the NT, but I have had a stumbling block or rather, cloudy vision when it came to understanding what I am reading in the OT. Perhaps this is one of the top reasons for coming to Unsealed and staying here. People bring up all kinds of OT passages that I had no idea could refer to the rapture. Daniel is Daniel as far a prophecy stuff, but there were passages from all kinds of other books, ie Micah and the Psalms that had an uncanny resembelences to rapture. and now this whole Exodus topic. It has been brought up many times...let's see what I can be taught through your understanding! I am going to relate to sawdy here, where she had become overwhelmed with some of threads post September. I need my OT teachings in dairy form, whole milk preferred over skim, and a full glass of it! Then, later, I can order a burger... Yes! Me too. I have never studied prophecy or the feasts before. There are so many brilliant minds contributing to the website and here on the forum, and I am thankful to have learned so much! I'm with you on the OT stuff too. I've studied a few books... Ruth, Esther, Psalm, Song of Solomon, Daniel, but certainly never the minor prophets or a detailed look at Mt Sinai. Is there anything more you would like to discuss about what I've written so far? In summary, we have always been taught that Pentecost is 50 days after First Fruits. First Fruits corresponds to the day the Israelites left Egypt. They then arrived at Mt Sinai approximately 43 days later, there were 3 days for them to consecrate themselves, and then Moses received the 10 commandments and some laws about how they are to relate to each other as a nation. We have always observed this as "Pentecost". But, this was only the beginning of a process. The law was in no way complete at that point. Everything about the tabernacle, priests, Ark of the Covenant, etc was given the second time Moses went up, when he was there 40 days and 40 nights. If I were to choose a "day" that would parallel the Acts Pentecost, it would be the last day when God wrote the law in His own hand and when it was clear who was on His side and who wasn't. Acts Pentecost celebrates God writing His law in our hearts, giving us hearts of flesh in place of hearts of stone. And the disciples knew who got the heart of flesh because they had the fire. The Lord knows those who are His. I don't know that I have any further explaining to do unless there is something I could clarify or elaborate on... I am just offering the idea that we should apply the "conception/birth" concept to the Pentecost in the OT as well as the Pentecost in the NT. I DO NOT feel like I'm teaching this or saying "God told me this". This is not something I have studied for years and am now lecturing on. It is something I've been thinking about the last couple of weeks and seems to make sense to me, and I'm throwing it out there to see what comes of it. Thankfully most of the other things I want to share are from the NT! |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 13, 2017 22:50:38 GMT -6
Well, before I get to the NT... something just jumped out at me in Exodus 34. Speaking of OT passages that look like the rapture barbiosheepgirl! At first glance, it also looks like this may relate to the Restoration of All Things idea. See what you think. And my apologies if SK already covered this. I haven't read all parts of the Restoration Thread. What happened to the first set of stone tablets? Moses broke them when he saw the golden calf. So what does God do? He writes them again!!!Here is Exodus 34 in it's entirety with my comments in red parentheses: The Lord said to Moses, “Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. (have we made a mess of things or what?) 2 Be ready by the morning, and come up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and present yourself there to me on the top of the mountain. (present ourselves in heaven?) 3 No one shall come up with you, and let no one be seen throughout all the mountain. Let no flocks or herds graze opposite that mountain.” 4 So Moses cut two tablets of stone like the first. And he rose early in the morning and went up on Mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and took in his hand two tablets of stone. 5 The Lord descended in the cloud (no explanation needed here!) and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped. 9 And he said, “If now I have found favor in your sight, O Lord, please let the Lord go in the midst of us, for it is a stiff-necked people, and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance.” (Lord, please come dwell with us and reign over us. We are stubborn. Even the church is a mess. PLEASE fix what we have not been able to fix and bring all things to You.)
10 And he said, “Behold, I am making a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been created in all the earth or in any nation. And all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the Lord, for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. (What a promise!)
11 “Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12 Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13 You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.17 “You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.18 “You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. (We have put on incorruptible flesh... check!) Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, (seven years in heaven?) as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month Abib, for in the month Abib you came out from Egypt. 19 All that open the womb are mine, (the firstborn son will soon be presented) all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. 20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest. 22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end. 23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. (Christ at First Fruits, us at Pentecost, and Israel at Tabernacles) 24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning. 26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”27 And the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. (Incorruptible bodies don't have to eat) And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, (when we return to earth with the Lord!) with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. 30 Aaron and all the people of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses talked with them. 32 Afterward all the people of Israel came near, and he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken with him in Mount Sinai. 33 And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
34 Whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, (In the Millennium, we will go in to speak to the Lord to carry out His orders) he would remove the veil, until he came out. And when he came out and told the people of Israel what he was commanded, 35 the people of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face was shining. And Moses would put the veil over his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
Y'all. Guess what happens in Exodus 35?!? The tabernacle and all the things get built! Everyone whose hearts stirred them contribute to the building of the Tabernacle. Some brought gold, others hair or skins, some brought acacia wood, some skillful women spun with their hands... "All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work that the Lord had commanded by Moses to be done brought it as a freewill offering to the Lord." (Ex 35:29) We have all been excited to see what we get to do in the Millennial Kingdom. Each of us will contribute according to our strengths. I am thinking Exodus 34 is a picture of the rapture/God rewriting the law that we broke, and Exodus 35-40 is the Millennial Kingdom!!! In Exodus 35-40, there is restoration. Here's how I see it (but wow it's late and I'm tired and I could be way off):
Exodus 19-24:8 relates to the OT. A law was given, but it was quite incomplete.
Exodus 24:9-32 relates to the church age. God gives the law in its entirety. We now have Jesus which completes what was missing at firstExodus 33-34 is a picture of now and the rapture; God makes new tablets since we broke the first ones. The law didn't change, but God Renewed the Covenant.
Exodus 35-40 is the Millennial Kingdom/Restoration All contribute to the building of the new tabernacle.OK... goal to be asleep by midnight so I'm signing off for now. Looking forward to your thoughts tomorrow. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 14, 2017 0:20:44 GMT -6
I have been loosely following this thread, but am enjoying it. My focus has mainly been SK's restoration thread. witness1 your most recent post of Exodus 34 verse 25-26 stuck out to me, really jumped out at me. 25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning. 26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.”
That last sentence is rather odd don't you think? Just kinda thrown in there. Or so it seems. The Jewish people took this literally and yes I do think it has a literal meaning. But there is something more there. Milk is nourishing, particularly fresh breast milk, helps protect against illness and builds up the babies immunity for their whole life. It offers the best dose of fats, proteins, minerals, and vitamins for baby and actually regulates itself to the babies needs based on their development and health on a daily basis. When breastmilk is over heated over a certain temperature, all these benefits and healing properties are destroyed. It changes and destroys the entire structure and function of the milk. It is best from the ONE who MADE you because it is perfect and customized JUST FOR YOU (see what I did there lol?). It restores and nourishes the baby every day. The one who made you wouldn't destroy you in the best thing for you that gives you life and something that they labor and sacrifice to provide for you ❤️ That is entirely and humbly my opinion on the verse. It however is one of those odd nuggets possibly there for figuring out  Edit because I forgot to add: The one who loves you also would not allow for someone else to allow you to be destroyed in or by something that it is created to nourish and give you life. Adding again lol ( I keep thinking about this! ) This is an allegory for the word of God or hearing and listening to God. When his word or ways are meddled with or taken away or manipulated, we suffer. Things are added that should not be there or things that are needed are taken away from being tampered with. Then we suffer and perish in the tainted "milk." |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 14, 2017 7:43:33 GMT -6
thank you witness1, that is a great comparison. Like cwood, I have been dwelling in the Restoration thread, yet still giving attention to dennis' thoughts, and adding to it all the way you are "searching out a matter" in Exodus. I wonder if my mom has looked at the Sinai events in a similar fashion. She knows much about covenant, and more about the minor prophets and kings, etc. Still teaching her how to post a thread  Thanks for a wonderful study with my morning cup of coffee! |
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Post by mike on Dec 14, 2017 12:16:28 GMT -6
Agreed and feel the same in all BUT
SK mentioned "similar" to a moderator, which IMO is perfect. Why? Unfortunately at times people see the title and think the police are watching ready to crack down before even reading what is said. In all cases I am aware of the current mods were "normal" contributors/participators like you and SK and others. While some of us were technically helping moderate previously, without the title that perception was missing, which was great. When some of us became mods not only did it seem others saw "the police" some even said so. So for people like me who contributed/posted quite a bit the perception went from user/commenter (perhaps i had too much free time) to "hey the cops are here, scram!"
unless you were around prior to that or take enough time see some of our posts (not an accusation that you dont) folks would see we're no different than we were previously. Watching, hoping praying, learning, exhorting, being exhorted....
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Post by witness1 on Dec 14, 2017 20:36:24 GMT -6
That is a very intriguing thought on that verse cwood85! That jumped out to me as being odd as well, and I was thinking there had to be something there but didn't see it. I think you may be on to something! Those are good points mike! Unfortunately I have seen what you're talking about, and it is a valid concern for some, although after being here for a little while, I understand and appreciate the way things work and appreciate each individual who contributes. I'm not sure what to do about this other than proceed with what I have been thinking and ask for everyone to feel free to comment with thoughts of approval or disapproval at any time. If SK or someone else wants to step forward as "official mediator" without having the title of "moderator", that sounds great to me! But truly, I hope you will all comment as you see fit. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 14, 2017 20:44:20 GMT -6
Agreed and feel the same in all BUTSK mentioned "similar" to a moderator, which IMO is perfect. Why? Unfortunately at times people see the title and think the police are watching ready to crack down before even reading what is said. In all cases I am aware of the current mods were "normal" contributors/participators like you and SK and others. While some of us were technically helping moderate previously, without the title that perception was missing, which was great. When some of us became mods not only did it seem others saw "the police" some even said so. So for people like me who contributed/posted quite a bit the perception went from user/commenter (perhaps i had too much free time) to "hey the cops are here, scram!" unless you were around prior to that or take enough time see some of our posts (not an accusation that you dont) folks would see we're no different than we were previously. Watching, hoping praying, learning, exhorting, being exhorted.... Just out of curiosity, can you unmoderate yourself lol if you wanted to? I really am being serious (well mostly 😜). Is this a title you earn based on post amounts or an appointed title? |
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Post by mike on Dec 14, 2017 21:16:07 GMT -6
Moderator is something Gary decides on (along with some others input). The other status's grow with post count. The was a thread discussing possible revised "titles" but didn't gain any ground. At the time I was not in favor as Yardstick & I we're "raptured" 😂 The only way to unmoderate would be to ask Gary to remove it. I'm not ready for that at the moment. However witness1 although I'm not posting as much as once did, I am reading along. I can learn without providing input 😀 I encourage you to continue doing what you're doing. If SK has input or insight he's usually very willing to share but only hesitant to do so at the risk of overrunning the thread (which would never be his intent). If you wanted him to act like a mediator and he was willing there's no rule being broken so all is well. Maintain the spirit of unity, in humility and most importantly loving one another as we love ourselves and what else will come of it but good fruit. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 14, 2017 21:36:13 GMT -6
Ok mike Just curious of the process. Not trying to insinuate anything or sound like you should not be one. You make a great moderator 👍 |
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Post by mike on Dec 14, 2017 21:54:15 GMT -6
Sorry cwood85 I didn't think you were suggesting that. I've wished I could lose the "title" so the perception wouldn't be an issue. Thanks for the compliment too 😀 Back to our regularly scheduled programming |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 14, 2017 23:04:16 GMT -6
There are a few sections of the NT that I want to look at, but I'm not quite ready yet. The thoughts are still a little foggy. For now, I want to leave you with this finding from "Agriculture in Iron Age Israel" by Oded Borowski. Unfortunately the book isn't available on kindle, so I can't confirm the findings of this website, but their statement of faith checks out at first glance. They have reproduced the following chart from page 37 of Borowski's book, and I have copied a section from the website below as well.  What I see here is that there were no ripe grapes when the wheat was in its First Fruits stage in May. This article only discusses winter wheat, which would have been ready in May. But the grapes for the new wine weren't ready until June. I would assume that means the "New Wine" wasn't ready until July, which would be about the same time the spring wheat would be ripe. This website does not mention spring wheat at all, but I did find this particularly interesting about the grape harvest: "Now let’s look at the major crops after Pentecost. Grapes were the first major crop to ripen: “In a good year, when the [grain] yield was great, threshing and grape picking overlapped” (page 62). That would be in June, technically in spring, since summer doesn’t officially start until the solstice, June 22.The importance of grapes and olives is illustrated by the fact that the Essenes had wine and oil firstfruits festivals similar to the biblical firstfruits offering for grain. These festivals also indicate the relative timing of these crops. The new wine festival came 50 days or seven weeks after Pentecost. Until new wine was offered, no one could drink any of the new juice (Temple Scroll, columns 19-21)."I don't know how to account for these facts. But something makes you go "hmmmm" when you find out that the spring wheat is ready about 50 days after the winter wheat, and the new wine festival is 50 days after the traditional Pentecost.Acts 2:13 "But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine." |
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Post by yardstick on Dec 14, 2017 23:10:14 GMT -6
witness1 I like your approach so far. I am weak in detailed knowledge of the OT in general. Its not that I prefer the NT, but I have had a stumbling block or rather, cloudy vision when it came to understanding what I am reading in the OT. Perhaps this is one of the top reasons for coming to Unsealed and staying here. People bring up all kinds of OT passages that I had no idea could refer to the rapture. Daniel is Daniel as far a prophecy stuff, but there were passages from all kinds of other books, ie Micah and the Psalms that had an uncanny resembelences to rapture. and now this whole Exodus topic. It has been brought up many times...let's see what I can be taught through your understanding! I am going to relate to sawdy here, where she had become overwhelmed with some of threads post September. I need my OT teachings in dairy form, whole milk preferred over skim, and a full glass of it! Then, later, I can order a burger... Don't forget the chocolate syrup! |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 15, 2017 8:52:19 GMT -6
I'd like to look at John 4:31-38:
Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” So the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought him something to eat?” Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”
This is a beautiful section of scripture used to encourage missionaries the world over. The fields are ready to be gleaned. The workers are few, but those who reap will receive wages and gather fruit for eternal life. What spiritual truth is Jesus teaching here? Like He often does, He uses something from the physical world to explain the spiritual world. And in the analogy, He says the spiritual reality is not limited to the constraints of the physical world. What are the constraints of the physical world and what can be learn about harvesting souls?
In the physical world, there is a certain order to things. You cannot rush the harvest. Seeds are sown and watered, weeds are pulled, more water is given, etc etc until the harvest. There is a lot of waiting time, and you can't change that. How long is the wait? Well, here it is four months. Is this a colloquialism, or was Jesus just simply telling us what kind of plant He was talking about?
If you have ever seen a packet of seeds, on the back it will say "Days to Maturity:" and then a number. Different plants have different days to maturity. Swiss chard will have baby leaves in only 28 days. Bell peppers however take 80-90 days to reach maturity and often have to be started indoors because otherwise the growing season is not long enough. If I were to say, "Do you not say 28 days and then the harvest?", you would know that I was certainly not talking about a harvest of bell peppers because there is no way they would be ready in time. Similarly, winter wheat and spring wheat have different days to maturity. Winter wheat is about 9 months, and spring wheat is about 4 months.
There are 2 possibilities here that I see:
1) It was late fall/early winter and there were nearby fields of winter wheat that would be ready in 4 more months. This is certainly possible, but it doesn't account for the time when the seed is sown, which is precisely the analogy Jesus is making.
2) Jesus was referencing the Days to Maturity of spring wheat and likening this group of Samaritans to spring wheat. Normally, the seed would be planted and it would take 4 months until harvest time. But here, Jesus planted the seed with the woman at the well, and she immediately brought people to Jesus:
“Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?” They went out of the town and were coming to him. (John 4:29-30) One commentary I read suggested these people coming to Jesus would have had white turbans all moving to Him together. The white fields were coming to Him even though it had not been 4 months since sowing.
Here in the spiritual realm, we don't have the constraints of the physical world. Even though the seed was just sown at the well, the harvest was already ripe. There was no need to wait the 4 months you would see in the physical world between sowing and harvesting. And since Jesus used 4 months in his analogy and not 9, I'm wondering whether He was calling these Samaritans the spring wheat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 9:32:41 GMT -6
witness1 - I know you are busy and have not likely had a chance to review the recents things I have been posting in the Restoration thread. Others may be seeing the pattern. But I wanted to encourage us by showing us a couple of things and also to demonstrate how the double witness concept is working its way out right now:
Each of these topics was raised independently of one another. I had not read your post from today while I was writing my exhortation on the same scripture passage - based on the timing of your post, we were composing the ideas at the same time. I posted later - but had composed my writing off-line and copied it in afterward. We also are both demonstrating the over lap of the wheat and grape harvests. Now - I have a different interpretation than you do in some of these cases. But, that is fine, the point is - the word is coming across and the body must hear the word and judge the appropriate action. Be encouraged all! The Lord Reigns!
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