Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 20:14:42 GMT -6
The more interesting question is this - If he is right - how does that impact your life today? If he is wrong - how does that impact your life today? People often talk about "getting ready" or "preparing" or "being watchful". What does any of that mean? Can we be more prepared? Can we watch harder? If we believe one date or another does that make us more ready? So, another question for you @silentknight ! (And thank you for your incredible answer to my other question!) Do you think it made sense to count 50 days from the Great Sign? I know I certainly did! I counted for a long time after the sign, but after 50 days I thought, "I'm going to have to go back to 'real life' and make Christmas travel plans and RSVP to some weddings and buy the kids some winter clothes and do all the other stuff I thought I wouldn't need to do". Did counting 50 from Sept 23 to fulfill Pentecost make sense to you? I see the logic that the sign of the resurrection of Christ was followed, 50 days later by the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So, perhaps the sign of the birth of Emmanuel, could proceed the resurrection by 50 days. I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight. The sign of 9/23 was spelled out in scripture. It was real and meaningful. Beyond that we have done a lot of guess work and speculation. There is nothing wrong with this and it brings great joy to many people, so I am not trying to dissuade people from doing such work. I believe God speaks through the stars and through numbers. And He may use these devices to bring revelation to someone who will bring us a great message. I find no fault in the work of Dennis. I am called to a different purpose and I am so fully convinced that we will not need to be persuaded when the time comes for us to know. We won't be guessing or wondering. But I may just be blind in this area and perhaps Dennis has eyes to see something that is being hidden from me. |
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Dec 10, 2017 22:17:10 GMT -6
So, another question for you @silentknight ! (And thank you for your incredible answer to my other question!) Do you think it made sense to count 50 days from the Great Sign? I know I certainly did! I counted for a long time after the sign, but after 50 days I thought, "I'm going to have to go back to 'real life' and make Christmas travel plans and RSVP to some weddings and buy the kids some winter clothes and do all the other stuff I thought I wouldn't need to do". Did counting 50 from Sept 23 to fulfill Pentecost make sense to you? I see the logic that the sign of the resurrection of Christ was followed, 50 days later by the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So, perhaps the sign of the birth of Emmanuel, could proceed the resurrection by 50 days. I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight. The sign of 9/23 was spelled out in scripture. It was real and meaningful. Beyond that we have done a lot of guess work and speculation. There is nothing wrong with this and it brings great joy to many people, so I am not trying to dissuade people from doing such work. I believe God speaks through the stars and through numbers. And He may use these devices to bring revelation to someone who will bring us a great message. I find no fault in the work of Dennis. I am called to a different purpose and I am so fully convinced that we will not need to be persuaded when the time comes for us to know. We won't be guessing or wondering. But I may just be blind in this area and perhaps Dennis has eyes to see something that is being hidden from me. OK. I feel like since this is my thread and you obviously know I am reading, then I need to respond. I can only say this...You characterize all the Scriptural points I present as a general ideas or tricks perhaps (because they are useless) of intellectual logic AND that each one "carries little spiritual weight." What would carry spiritual weight to you silentknight? What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible, or at least not the way I present it as being from the Bible. You want something else. What do you desire the most? This will make things clear. What would convince you? What is your blessed hope? Actually, silentknight, why do you keep dealing with me? You don't agree with me obviously and I don't understand why you keep posting here. Do you have something to offer? I am not reaching you. I would expect you just to avoid this. Why do you keep at it? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 1:59:37 GMT -6
I see the logic that the sign of the resurrection of Christ was followed, 50 days later by the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So, perhaps the sign of the birth of Emmanuel, could proceed the resurrection by 50 days. I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight. The sign of 9/23 was spelled out in scripture. It was real and meaningful. Beyond that we have done a lot of guess work and speculation. There is nothing wrong with this and it brings great joy to many people, so I am not trying to dissuade people from doing such work. I believe God speaks through the stars and through numbers. And He may use these devices to bring revelation to someone who will bring us a great message. I find no fault in the work of Dennis. I am called to a different purpose and I am so fully convinced that we will not need to be persuaded when the time comes for us to know. We won't be guessing or wondering. But I may just be blind in this area and perhaps Dennis has eyes to see something that is being hidden from me. OK. I feel like since this is my thread and you obviously know I am reading, then I need to respond. I can only say this...You characterize all the Scriptural points I present as a general ideas or tricks perhaps (because they are useless) of intellectual logic AND that each one "carries little spiritual weight." What would carry spiritual weight to you silentknight? What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible, or at least not the way I present it as being from the Bible. You want something else. What do you desire the most? This will make things clear. What would convince you? What is your blessed hope? Actually, silentknight, why do you keep dealing with me? You don't agree with me obviously and I don't understand why you keep posting here. Do you have something to offer? I am not reaching you. I would expect you just to avoid this. Why do you keep at it? Wow. 😞 Dennis - you have really misrepresented my words. I was responding to a specific question from witness1 , and that is the only point to which I was applying my thought of intellectual logic. I never called anything you wrote "tricks." But I think you have made your desire clear. It is not engagement you are looking for. It is agreement. I stand by all the compliments I paid you and will keep you in my prayers. But I will honor your desire and depart - again - from your thread. |
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Dec 11, 2017 2:58:03 GMT -6
I see the logic that the sign of the resurrection of Christ was followed, 50 days later by the receiving of the Holy Spirit. So, perhaps the sign of the birth of Emmanuel, could proceed the resurrection by 50 days. I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight. The sign of 9/23 was spelled out in scripture. It was real and meaningful. Beyond that we have done a lot of guess work and speculation. There is nothing wrong with this and it brings great joy to many people, so I am not trying to dissuade people from doing such work. I believe God speaks through the stars and through numbers. And He may use these devices to bring revelation to someone who will bring us a great message. I find no fault in the work of Dennis. I am called to a different purpose and I am so fully convinced that we will not need to be persuaded when the time comes for us to know. We won't be guessing or wondering. But I may just be blind in this area and perhaps Dennis has eyes to see something that is being hidden from me. OK. I feel like since this is my thread and you obviously know I am reading, then I need to respond. I can only say this...You characterize all the Scriptural points I present as a general ideas or tricks perhaps (because they are useless) of intellectual logic AND that each one "carries little spiritual weight." What would carry spiritual weight to you silentknight? What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible, or at least not the way I present it as being from the Bible. You want something else. What do you desire the most? This will make things clear. What would convince you? What is your blessed hope? Actually, silentknight, why do you keep dealing with me? You don't agree with me obviously and I don't understand why you keep posting here. Do you have something to offer? I am not reaching you. I would expect you just to avoid this. Why do you keep at it? Hello fellow watchmen and women.
Dennis, others have said on multiple threads that speculating is fine and fun and leads to many interesting threads and discussions. We all have parts of the puzzle and no one has all the pieces. Furthermore, while scripture is clear on many things regarding end times - the truth of the matter is that there are many things that are just not revealed - "We all see through a glass dimly". Scripture doesn't explicitly say that the Gog of Magog War starts instantly-simultaneously with the rapture. It doesn't say the AC will be a left-handed musician, or even that he is Jewish.
One of the biggest benefits is that when people post a theory or hypothesis, it gets tested and brothers and sisters look for holes in the theory - and this includes how it lines up with scripture - and by this we truly learn from each other. ;-) For example - At the end of the day, some people will still believe that the 'real key' to understanding the rapture/ end times is hidden in Occultic Egyptian pyramid angles.  I disagree. Some people firmly believe that we can use Strong's numbers as confirmations. [or Signs] I think this is rubbish, and makes Christians look ignorant and superstitious.
I would say in humility that it's 'your thread' - in the sense that you created it, but people have the right to interact and offer their perspective and that includes challenging your hypothesis. - That's the iron sharpening iron. To use the words "What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible. . ." - imho is over the line.
I and others have given credible challenges / counter arguments to your theory. Is it possible that Christ could return on Dec 31?? Mathematically, yes. If each person on this entire forum chose one day from the calendar, then statistically - several people would be "right". -- I'm not saying categorically that you are wrong, or that Christ won't return on Dec 31, but I and others have mentioned several mistakes in your theory. - One of the biggest was that you mentioned one of the supporting reasons was that Mary said she would be resurrected on the Last Day, and you concluded that to mean Dec 31, which is the last day of the Gregorian calendar. Mary and Martha and Lazarus would have used a Hebrew Calendar.
- The Gregorian calendar was invented by Pope Gregory, which was not until 1582.
- By the context - looking at the grammatical context - 'the Last Day' is a known phrase, and refers to the end times, not the last day of the calendar year. **Even if one could prove Mary meant the end of the calendar year - Neither the end of the Jewish civil year, nor the religious year is in December.
- Pentecost is in the Spring, not the Fall or Winter, and even if it were - 50 days after Sept 23 would be Nov 12.
- There was no resurrection on Sept 23, no harpazo event, no rapture, and nothing in scripture that says to count from this day.
- While numbers can and do have special meaning, just because 50 occurs doesn't mean it's related to Pentecost, - in the same way that it's not sound hermeneutics to draw the conclusion that every time the number 3 appears, that it means the Trinity.
- This is how/why people make the flawed connection that the "Last Trumpet" that Paul uses in a Rapture/harpazo context in 1 Thes, is the same as the 7th Trumpet in Revel, - they ignore the facts that these are totally different trumpets, one by God, and the other by seven angels, and the goal/ purpose are totally different.
- There is almost universal agreement that the First four feasts [Spring feasts] have already been fulfilled - Passover, Feast of unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost. Most Bible scholars and Prophecy teachers [while they disagree on many things] agree that the Fall Feasts of Yom Teruah, Day of Atonement and Feast of Booths/ Sukkot have Not been fulfilled. This is why the Fall Feasts, whatever they mean, and however / whenever they will be fulfilled, are connected with end times, and are very high watch times. ;-)
I am a fellow-watchman with all of you, and I'm watching the news, and keeping my eyes on the sky - I would be thrilled beyond words for the Harpazo to happen on Dec 31st. Maranatha !! Disciple4life.
|
|
|
|
Post by krnboitae on Dec 11, 2017 8:05:31 GMT -6
Genesis 17:1 (99 years = 99 days)
King James Bible
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Genesis 21:7 (Year 2017)
King James Bible
And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age.
Genesis 21:8 (Year 2018)
King James Bible
And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.
God will appear and rapture the church on 12/31/2017, 99 days after rev 12 virgo sign which gave birth to the church on 9/23/2017.
Church will have a great feast and laughter in the heaven with father in year 2018.
(weaned meaning complete nursing/ripen)
(In Hebrew the meaning of the name Isaac is: He laughs. Laughter)
|
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Dec 11, 2017 8:49:38 GMT -6
Genesis 17:1 (99 years = 99 days) King James Bible And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 21:7 (Year 2017) King James Bible And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age. Genesis 21:8 (Year 2018) King James Bible And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. God will appear and rapture the church on 12/31/2017, 99 days after rev 12 virgo sign which gave birth to the church on 9/23/2017. Church will have a great feast and laughter in the heaven with father in year 2018. (weaned meaning complete nursing/ripen) (In Hebrew the meaning of the name Isaac is: He laughs. Laughter) krnboitae , We can't pick one number from a passage and draw the conclusion that this means after this number of days the rapture will happen. It's totally fine to speculate, but the next person could say that about any number from any passage.
Making a connection where there is not one, or using chiasm - a poetic device - to 'interpret scripture' is a slippery slope.
Lots of people have done the exact same thing regarding the Sept 23 alignment, - some used 40 - the number of testing, some used 33, some used 12, some used 70, and on and on and on. Because of this kind of 'false correlation' - when those numbers didn't pan out it even caused other theories - like the one that the Jewish calendar must be "Off" this year. I think @silentknight made a very good point. [Even though I can't say it as clearly. ;-)] Scripture says that we are children of the day - not children of the night - so that day will not catch us like a thief. There are many many watchmen and women on this forum, and other places. It seems abundantly clear that we are seeing labor pains, and in the last 2 weeks, we have literally seen prophecy fulfilled before our eyes. An alliance between Russian, Iran, and Turkey, which fits the description of Ezekiel 38/39, and then last week, with Trump officially declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
I think there will be a warning to those watching, but I think it will be huge and clear and there will be broad consensus among Watchmen - like a nuclear attack, or a treaty between Israel and many nations, or a massive earthquake - not some individual making some remote connection. The other thing - I could be mistaken - I have many times before, but the 'birth' - when Jupiter left Virgo - was not until October - don't remember the exact date, so that alone would reveal a serious hole in this theory.
Maranatha, Disciple4life
|
|
|
|
Post by krnboitae on Dec 11, 2017 8:57:26 GMT -6
krnboitae, We can't pick one number from a passage and draw the conclusion that this means after this number of days the rapture will happen. It's totally fine to speculate, but the next person could say that about any number from any passage.
Making a connection where there is not one, or using chiasm - a poetic device - to 'interpret scripture' is a slippery slope.
Lots of people have done the exact same thing regarding the Sept 23 alignment, - some used 40 - the number of testing, some used 33, some used 12, some used 70, and on and on and on. Because of this kind of 'false correlation' - when those numbers didn't pan out it even caused other theories - like the one that the Jewish calendar must be "Off" this year. I think @silentknight made a very good point. Scripture says that we are children of the day - not children of the night - so that day will not catch us like a thief. There are many many watchmen and women on this forum, and other places. It seems abundantly clear that we are seeing labor pains, and in the last 2 weeks, we have literally seen prophecy fulfilled before our eyes. An alliance between Russian, Iran, and Turkey, which fits the description of Ezekiel 38/39, and then last week, with Trump officially declaring Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. I think there will be a warning to those watching, but I think it will be huge and clear and there will be broad consensus - like a nuclear attack, or a treaty between Israel and many nations, or a massive earthquake - not some individual making some remote connection. The other thing - I could be mistaken - I have many times before, but the 'birth' - when Jupiter left Virgo - was not until October - don't remember the exact date, so that alone would reveal a serious hole in this theory.
Birth was when Jupiter was right between two legs of virgo on 9/23/2017. Not when it leaves virgo. Church is male and female. Woman who gives birth to a son must be purified for 33 days and to a daughter must be purified for 66 days. 33+66=99 days. You can disagree with me. It is completely OK. Time will tell the truth. I trust in God who showed me all these things. |
|
|
|
Post by witness1 on Dec 11, 2017 9:28:31 GMT -6
Oh my. I don't understand what happened here. dennislwatson ... what happened to version 2.0? I liked that one. @silentknight was gracious to answer a question from me, showed a great deal of wisdom in doing so, praised your efforts and enthusiasm, said he saw a bit of logic in the proposed count, and confessed that it was possible that you have eyes to see something he does not. This sounds like the epitome of humility and grace to me. He is politely disagreeing with you, and he only did so because I specifically asked his opinion about what a convincing argument would look like. He is not a troll spoiling your thread. I was POLITELY trying to figure out what it is that we are looking for and what is missing from this current theory so that we could look in that direction. Please go back to version 2.0 and don't make us get to seventy times seven before Jesus gets back  |
|
|
|
Post by witness1 on Dec 11, 2017 9:41:23 GMT -6
Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed. Proverbs 15:22 ESV
|
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Dec 11, 2017 9:46:10 GMT -6
OK. I feel like since this is my thread and you obviously know I am reading, then I need to respond. I can only say this...You characterize all the Scriptural points I present as a general ideas or tricks perhaps (because they are useless) of intellectual logic AND that each one "carries little spiritual weight." What would carry spiritual weight to you silentknight? What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible, or at least not the way I present it as being from the Bible. You want something else. What do you desire the most? This will make things clear. What would convince you? What is your blessed hope? Actually, silentknight, why do you keep dealing with me? You don't agree with me obviously and I don't understand why you keep posting here. Do you have something to offer? I am not reaching you. I would expect you just to avoid this. Why do you keep at it? Wow. 😞 Dennis - you have really misrepresented my words. I was responding to a specific question from witness1 , and that is the only point to which I was applying my thought of intellectual logic. I never called anything you wrote "tricks." But I think you have made your desire clear. It is not engagement you are looking for. It is agreement. I stand by all the compliments I paid you and will keep you in my prayers. But I will honor your desire and depart - again - from your thread. What has "purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight."?I wrote two pages on Abraham and "99" and Isaac in my article so I assumed you had read it and were indicating this idea was "purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight." I see now it is more likely you have not read my article so you were responding to krnboitae who said the same thing. |
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Dec 11, 2017 10:04:45 GMT -6
Genesis 17:1 (99 years = 99 days) King James Bible And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 21:7 (Year 2017) King James Bible And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age. Genesis 21:8 (Year 2018) King James Bible And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. God will appear and rapture the church on 12/31/2017, 99 days after rev 12 virgo sign which gave birth to the church on 9/23/2017. Church will have a great feast and laughter in the heaven with father in year 2018. (weaned meaning complete nursing/ripen) (In Hebrew the meaning of the name Isaac is: He laughs. Laughter) krnboitae: I know you are a relatively new Christian and you are learning how to be involved with Bible study and you even got to the date of the end of the year before I did. Here is how Scripture supports Bible Study like you and I are doing and in spite of the members here who tell you you can't make the connections that you did, I believe you actually can, so be encouraged and ignore them. This verse tells us about how to study the Bible. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: I discovered a precept, that there is a count, applicable with the Revelation 12 sign and it counts down to the end of the Pentecost Season. You and I the began the study then, line upon line, here a little, there a little and we have discovered numbers, and types, and clues and encouragements in verse after verse that gives a little hint, sometimes here, sometimes there, and we add a line here and we add a line there and yet, there are those who say "You can't do that!" or they say "I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight." IGNORE THEM! I say krnboitae you MUST continue to do that. We are all children of Abraham by faith. Thus, Abraham and Isaac are important to us. We are RELATED in faith and in typology. Abraham knows he has a lot of "kids" out there. We all need to get born again like Revelation 12:5 says. The fact that after 99 years Isaac became a human, yet in the womb, not yet born IS AN IMPORTANT idea. Take a little here, and that is our state at 99, like Isaac, we existed, but in the womb, unborn, but the birth is close, wait until when? until 100. Then we take a little there. That is when Isaac was born at 100, I think at the end of 99 is when we are born again. This is beautiful. Krnboitae. "Isaac" There WILL BE LAUGHTER WHEN WE ARE ALL BORN AGAIN, AND IF THIS OCCURS AT END OF DAY 99 INTO THE VERY BEGINNING OF 100 days, Well "Wouldn't that be special?" Yes, it would. NO WAIT! "It wouldn't just be special, it would be PERFECT!" After all that is exactly what the Lord God said to Abraham. Be ye perfect! I spend two pages on Abraham and 99 at Page 53. I spend a lot of time showing that 99 is actually two counts of fifty connected by day 50 become day 1 to the next Pentecost count. 99 is a number of special interest by God. You have discovered that krnboitae. Out of the blue, 99 means nothing. When it is supporting a Biblical precept that supports another precept, it cannot be ignored. And all you guys make me feel like Isaac. Laughter. I am not turning back into Version 1. So, I can't complain when a member posts that this idea was..."purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight"? And if he did not know that this was in my article too then that is his fault. I told on the first post what I wanted to discuss on this thread. It was the article. Yes people have the right to come here and object. I thought I could defend my proposal on this thread. I will continue to defend it and try to encourage. |
|
|
|
Post by krnboitae on Dec 11, 2017 10:40:12 GMT -6
Genesis 17:1 (99 years = 99 days) King James Bible And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 21:7 (Year 2017) King James Bible And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age. Genesis 21:8 (Year 2018) King James Bible And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. God will appear and rapture the church on 12/31/2017, 99 days after rev 12 virgo sign which gave birth to the church on 9/23/2017. Church will have a great feast and laughter in the heaven with father in year 2018. (weaned meaning complete nursing/ripen) (In Hebrew the meaning of the name Isaac is: He laughs. Laughter) krnboitae: I know you are a relatively new Christian and you are learning how to be involved with Bible study and you even got to the date of the end of the year before I did. Here is how Scripture supports Bible Study like you and I are doing and in spite of the members here who tell you you can't make the connections that you did, I believe you actually can, so be encouraged and ignore them. This verse tells us about how to study the Bible. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: I discovered a precept, that there is a count, applicable with the Revelation 12 sign and it counts down to the end of the Pentecost Season. You and I the began the study then, line upon line, here a little, there a little and we have discovered numbers, and types, and clues and encouragements in verse after verse that gives a little hint, sometimes here, sometimes there, and we add a line here and we add a line there and yet, there are those who say "You can't do that!" or they say "I even see the logic of using a secondary counting method to get to 99 days. But this is purely intellectual logic and carries little spiritual weight." IGNORE THEM! I say krnboitae you MUST continue to do that. We are all children of Abraham by faith. We all need to get born again like Revelation 12:5 says. The fact that after 99 years Isaac became a human, yet in the womb, not yet born IS AN IMPORTANT idea. Take a little here, and that is our state at 99, like Isaac, we existed, but in the womb, unborn, but its close, wait until when? until 100. Then we take a little there. That is when Isaac was born at 100, I think at the end of 99 is when we are born again. This is beautiful. Krnboitae. "Isaac" There WILL BE LAUGHTER WHEN WE ARE ALL BORN AGAIN, AND IF THIS OCCURS AT END OF DAY 99 INTO THE VERY BEGINNING OF 100 days, Well "Wouldn't that be special?" Yes, it would. NO WAIT! "It wouldn't just be special, it would be PERFECT!" After all that is exactly what the Lord God said to Abraham. Be ye perfect! I spend two pages on Abraham and 99 at Page 53. I spend a lot of time showing that 99 is actually two counts of fifty connected by day 50 become day 1 to the next Pentecost count. 99 is a number of special interest by God. You have discovered that krnboitae. Out of the blue, 99 means nothing. When it is supporting a Biblical precept it cannot be ignored. All you guys make me feel like Isaac. Laughter. Mr.Watson, thank you for the encouragement! Watch from minute 30 to 32. Behold Israel channel quotes 2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Bible Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:17-18 (Year 2017-2018) King James Bible And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Jesus poured out his holy spirit on me in these last days. I will prophesy that church will be raptured on 12/31/2017. Praise God! Love you all (agree or disagree with me or Mr.Watson) that are on unsealed. See you all in heaven. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Dec 11, 2017 11:31:30 GMT -6
All...I've been reading along and am starting to see some tension, which is clearly the intent of none.
Perfectly ok to disagree but remember who you all belong to please. Whether right or wrong we are on the same team, so please treat each other with Grace and Mercy as He has been towards us.
2.0 you knew people would disagree with you, are you surprised (rhetorical)? If God has shown you what you believe, then be faithful to that. Understand that others do not or may not see what you see or are trying to understand. If they disagree it's ok.
|
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Dec 11, 2017 11:36:37 GMT -6
OK. I feel like since this is my thread and you obviously know I am reading, then I need to respond. I can only say this...You characterize all the Scriptural points I present as a general ideas or tricks perhaps (because they are useless) of intellectual logic AND that each one "carries little spiritual weight." What would carry spiritual weight to you silentknight? What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible, or at least not the way I present it as being from the Bible. You want something else. What do you desire the most? This will make things clear. What would convince you? What is your blessed hope? Actually, silentknight, why do you keep dealing with me? You don't agree with me obviously and I don't understand why you keep posting here. Do you have something to offer? I am not reaching you. I would expect you just to avoid this. Why do you keep at it? Hello fellow watchmen and women.
Dennis, others have said on multiple threads that speculating is fine and fun and leads to many interesting threads and discussions. We all have parts of the puzzle and no one has all the pieces. Furthermore, while scripture is clear on many things regarding end times - the truth of the matter is that there are many things that are just not revealed - "We all see through a glass dimly". Scripture doesn't explicitly say that the Gog of Magog War starts instantly-simultaneously with the rapture. It doesn't say the AC will be a left-handed musician, or even that he is Jewish.
One of the biggest benefits is that when people post a theory or hypothesis, it gets tested and brothers and sisters look for holes in the theory - and this includes how it lines up with scripture - and by this we truly learn from each other. ;-) For example - At the end of the day, some people will still believe that the 'real key' to understanding the rapture/ end times is hidden in Occultic Egyptian pyramid angles. I disagree. Some people firmly believe that we can use Strong's numbers as confirmations. [or Signs] I think this is rubbish, and makes Christians look ignorant and superstitious.
I would say in humility that it's 'your thread' - in the sense that you created it, but people have the right to interact and offer their perspective and that includes challenging your hypothesis. - That's the iron sharpening iron. To use the words "What are you waiting for? Obviously it is not out of the Bible. . ." - imho is over the line.
I and others have given credible challenges / counter arguments to your theory. Is it possible that Christ could return on Dec 31?? Mathematically, yes. If each person on this entire forum chose one day from the calendar, then statistically - several people would be "right". -- I'm not saying categorically that you are wrong, or that Christ won't return on Dec 31, but I and others have mentioned several mistakes in your theory. - One of the biggest was that you mentioned one of the supporting reasons was that Mary said she would be resurrected on the Last Day, and you concluded that to mean Dec 31, which is the last day of the Gregorian calendar. Mary and Martha and Lazarus would have used a Hebrew Calendar.
- The Gregorian calendar was invented by Pope Gregory, which was not until 1582.
- By the context - looking at the grammatical context - 'the Last Day' is a known phrase, and refers to the end times, not the last day of the calendar year. **Even if one could prove Mary meant the end of the calendar year - Neither the end of the Jewish civil year, nor the religious year is in December.
- Pentecost is in the Spring, not the Fall or Winter, and even if it were - 50 days after Sept 23 would be Nov 12.
- There was no resurrection on Sept 23, no harpazo event, no rapture, and nothing in scripture that says to count from this day.
- While numbers can and do have special meaning, just because 50 occurs doesn't mean it's related to Pentecost, - in the same way that it's not sound hermeneutics to draw the conclusion that every time the number 3 appears, that it means the Trinity.
- This is how/why people make the flawed connection that the "Last Trumpet" that Paul uses in a Rapture/harpazo context in 1 Thes, is the same as the 7th Trumpet in Revel, - they ignore the facts that these are totally different trumpets, one by God, and the other by seven angels, and the goal/ purpose are totally different.
- There is almost universal agreement that the First four feasts [Spring feasts] have already been fulfilled - Passover, Feast of unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost. Most Bible scholars and Prophecy teachers [while they disagree on many things] agree that the Fall Feasts of Yom Teruah, Day of Atonement and Feast of Booths/ Sukkot have Not been fulfilled. This is why the Fall Feasts, whatever they mean, and however / whenever they will be fulfilled, are connected with end times, and are very high watch times. ;-)
I am a fellow-watchman with all of you, and I'm watching the news, and keeping my eyes on the sky - I would be thrilled beyond words for the Harpazo to happen on Dec 31st. Maranatha !! Disciple4life.
credible challenges / counter arguments to your theory. I have not seen challenges yet. Counter arguments are mostly "I don't think so."Is it possible that Christ could return on Dec 31?? Mathematically, yes. If each person on this entire forum chose one day from the calendar, then statistically - several people would be "right". Fascinating. Every point in my article that points to December 31, you are saying that I could pick a random date and generate a 70 page article on how much Scripture supports it. I don't think so. I reject your analysis and conclusion and am embarrassed at you thinking that this point should even have been in print. -- I'm not saying categorically that you are wrong, or that Christ won't return on Dec 31, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, THAT IS ALL THE TRUTH I THINK YOU HAVE TO OFFER ON THE SUBJECT AND I WILL CONFIRM THAT BELOW! but I and others have mentioned several mistakes in your theory. Finally I get learned on my mistakes. OK. Great! I am ready. I do not want mistakes in my article. I am ready to revise. One of the biggest was that you mentioned one of the supporting reasons was that Mary said she would be resurrected on the Last Day, and you concluded that to mean Dec 31, which is the last day of the Gregorian calendar. Mary and Martha and Lazarus would have used a Hebrew Calendar. This is not a mistake. You did not read my argument. The rapture happens worldwide at once. Over the whole world. A world that uses a Gregorian Calendar and laughing, as much as you want not to believe it, I am so sorry, THE RAPTURE WILL OCCCUR ON A GREGORIAN CALENDAR DATE! So what you are telling me is that it is impossible that the words "Last Day" could have been inspired by God to refer not only to the last day of the count, but the last day that Lazarus would remain dead, AND the last day of the year. Hmmmm. What kind of sovereign, omniscient, omnipotent God could not have worked that out.The Gregorian calendar was invented by Pope Gregory, which was not until 1582. What? Thanks for that little tidbit. Your argument has NO WEIGHT. God knew when it would be, He inspired EVERY WORD in the Bible. He even refers to the Gregorian calendar by rapturing Enoch when he was 365 years old. God laughs at the Gregorian calendar. I am laughing at your point. I am still version 2. I am laughing. Can I not do that?By the context - looking at the grammatical context - 'the Last Day' is a known phrase, and refers to the end times, not the last day of the calendar year. **Even if one could prove Mary meant the end of the calendar year - Neither the end of the Jewish civil year, nor the religious year is in December. This is not a mistake. Last day, of the Count, Last day we are on earth, Last day of the year, last day Lazarus would be dead. Who cares about Jewish civil year, God is creating a GENTILE CHURCH on some date that will be on the Gregorian Calendar. You did not read my article. At the most you skimmed it. I talk in detail about the words of Jesus in Scripture talking about an unexpected time. You should read pages ummm like 25 to 31. All of them talk about the unexpected time. You are going to prove that God did not mean the last day of the year with grammar? Let me think. Last time I checked my funk and wagnall the word "Last" was a modifier for that "day" that was really important to Martha.
Pentecost is in the Spring, not the Fall or Winter, and even if it were - 50 days after Sept 23 would be Nov 12. Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggghghhhhhhhh! That is not a mistake. I am not indicating anything about the day of the inception of Pentecost. I am indicating something about the termination of Pentecost. You did not read my article.There was no resurrection on Sept 23, no harpazo event, no rapture, and nothing in scripture that says to count from this day. Leviticus 23:15, 16 says "SHALL COUNT" if you want to get the count right you "shall count." You don't have to count, and you won't, it is just that God has given us a count. Why not use it as He commands? This was not my mistake. That was apparently unsealed's mistake. It was a sign it was not the event. It was a sign. You did not read my article and you are showing a disregard for Scripture. The inspired words of Scripture call it a SIGN not the event in Revelation 12:1. You say the Sign has nothing to do with the resurrection of the Church because maybe the resurrection of the Church did not happen then. What? Seriously?While numbers can and do have special meaning, just because 50 occurs doesn't mean it's related to Pentecost, - in the same way that it's not sound hermeneutics to draw the conclusion that every time the number 3 appears, that it means the Trinity. This is not a mistake. It can refer to Pentecost when it does. I did not say that every time the number 3 appears it means the Trinity and if I said that it would be a 'MISTAKE". I will go back and revise my article if I truly said that "EVERY TIME THE NUMBER 3 APPEARS, THAT IT MEANS THE TRINITY." I don't know why I would have said that. I do not believe that. What I do believe is that when I see a number 3 that will be one of the ways I might find meaning there if the verse glorified God in some way because of it. There are a few times that do. But thanks. I will go back and look at where I said something about 3. But whatever I said, I don't think it means what you think it means.
FIFTY FIFTY.pdf (330.14 KB) This is how/why people make the flawed connection that the "Last Trumpet" that Paul uses in a Rapture/harpazo context in 1 Thes, is the same as the 7th Trumpet in Revel, - they ignore the facts that these are totally different trumpets, one by God, and the other by seven angels, and the goal/ purpose are totally different. I did not make a mistake about the Last Trump. and I don't understand your "This is how/why" argument. I related the Last Tump to the First Trump at Mt. Sinai back in Exodus. That is where the First Trump was that Paul was referring to when he spoke of the Last Trump. God seems to use His trumps when He is dealing with a bride. That happened at Sinai. That will happen at the rapture.There is almost universal agreement that the First four feasts [Spring feasts] have already been fulfilled - This is not a mistake. You statement is simply false. Pentecost is a harvest feast. Where is the harvest that fulfills it? Your statement is wrong. There is not almost universal agreement.Passover, Feast of unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost. Good job. Yes that is the first four and the last one has not been fulfilled.Most Bible scholars and Prophecy teachers [while they disagree on many things] agree that the Fall Feasts of Yom Teruah, Day of Atonement and Feast of Booths/ Sukkot have Not been fulfilled. I agree 100% with that. This is why the Fall Feasts, whatever they mean, and however / whenever they will be fulfilled, are connected with end times, and are very high watch times. ;-) You are going to get raptured before you get to the Fall Feasts. Those fall feasts would be expected times. Jesus will come for rapture He said, at an unexpected time. You will see the fall feasts start but before you do you will see the white rear end of the horse that Jesus is riding and at that time, all the saints will be shouting "Hallelujah!" Did you know it is while you are following Jesus who is coming down to earth at Feast of Trumpets, that the Bible first records the word "Halleluhah" Four times in Revelation 19.
The weakness in everything you said is this..."I am a fellow-watchman with all of you, and I'm watching the news, and keeping my eyes on the sky" I think one other element needs to be there and that is keeping your eyes on Scripture also. That is where krnbitae has you beat. He is looking at Scripture. You have only two thirds of the equation, meaning your conclusions will tend to be inaccurate.
Blessings. A true disciple is a true learner. I am not mad. I am version 2.0. Version 2.0 still disagrees. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:03:51 GMT -6
So, admittedly, I am torn about the correct course of action here. dennislwatson , you are chastising me for sticking around, yet you are also asking me to answer your question. I certainly don't want to seem to be defending myself nor attacking you. But I also don't want to dismiss you and ignore your questions. It is truly a difficult choice. So, in faith in your good will toward a brother, I will answer the questions you asked me in hopes that this will settle things in your heart, but I am truly not interested in bickering about these things. If these answers do not settle things for you, then please accept my apology for making you feel things that I did not intend. Even if by accident, I am saddened by the way I have made you feel.
This is my understanding of events:* You started this thread and many engaged you in your thoughts and ideas. You took offense to many of the things that were expressed by folks. When you responded, as you did to my post that expressed concern about the Pentecost count, I was confirmed that there was something off in the spirit of this thread and I departed saying that until the spirit changed, I would disengage. * You and I corresponded through PM. * You then came back to the thread and apologized and introduced DLW 2.0. * We all cheered. * So I wrote you to encourage you that I had spent the time you felt people weren’t spending. I had taken the poll you felt had little response and that you should stick around to help teach and learn and that people are simply a bit more wise and cautious after having heard a number of “pretty sure” dates. * I was then asked a question about what I thought a convincing argument would look like - to which you responded: Now, one could be led to believe that you were finding value in my postings. It felt appropriate to respond to witness1 with answers to her questions. She asked a followup question and I provided a followup answer. Is that where you ceased to find value?
Now, let us look at your response to me: Small thing maybe, but an example of what leads to greater misunderstanding. Do you see how I was talking about one point, and you misrepresented that to be talking about your entire article and all your points?Did I? Where did I say that? Perhaps you have misrepresented my words? Do you see that? In fact, I said the exact opposite a few different ways: It seems to me, that your claim that I said "what God has been giving you is not from God at all" - is a direct misrepresentation of my words. Can you see that? What I did say is that God has not confirmed this message within me. And I admitted this could be because of my blindness. Brother, this is not the time to scold the one who is blind, it is a time to wrap your arms around them and heal their blindness with the love of Christ. The really sad irony is that I am closer to your ideas then you know when it comes to Pentecost - I’m just not being shown the timing you feel you have been shown.
You asked what I am seeking, what is my blessed hope? I can’t tell if you mean in reference to this thread - in which case, I was seeking discussion, brotherly love, and truth. While also trying to engage you to encourage you not to leave. If you mean, in life? Then I am seeking to follow the voice of my Lord, moment by moment.
As far as avoiding this thread if I disagreed with it. That is not how I would tend to react - for a few reasons: 1. If we could only engage in things we 100% agreed with, we would have little to talk about. 2. It supports others in fleshing out their thoughts, even if we don’t agree with their thoughts. 3. It is kind of the point of this forum - to discuss things. It is not a newspaper. 4. In this particular case, you were being cynical about people not engaging in your thread, so... 5. To clear up wrong teachings when necessary But, I do agree that I tend to avoid threads where the spirit is not one of brotherly love. There is no benefit to debate for the sake of debate or in order to destroy one another. If my words felt destructive and discouraging, then I have failed in my communication and wish to ask your forgiveness. I’m hoping this post can help you see things from a different perspective than you previously did. Either way, it seems we have run our course in this particular discussion and, as I said, I will honor your desire for me to withhold from this thread. Unless this body feels there is benefit from continuing this discourse in public, I suggest that, if you have more to teach me concerning my words or attitude that we do so via private messaging.
I do have some rhetorical questions for you as I step out of your way. You claim that we should all be teachable. Does that include you? 1. krnboitae has now made the claim that he is prophesying in the name of Jesus that "church will be raptured on 12/31/2017". Do you also make such a claim - that God gave you this message? Assuming your answer to #1 is, No. 2. Why is it so important to you that others believe you when you say that the rapture will take place on 12/31? Notice - built into this question are really two parts: 2a. Why is it important that people believe in a 12/31 rapture? How will it change their life over the next 20 days? If it is to bring them joy - could you bring them joy now, by being gentle and kind? 2b. Why is it important that people believe you? What do you gain from this and why is it so offensive when your ideas are asked to be defended or clarified? Once again, rhetorical, things for you to consider in your heart. 3. What relationships are you willing to damage in order to push your ideas? You ask people to pretend they believe. You scold people for asking the wrong questions. You seem to judge people for not agreeing. 4. You, yourself claim you have done this 3 times before. You have already starting talking about the Rose bowl as your next date. Why should not everyone of us say - "Dennis - come on man, why are you doubting? Don't you have a heart to receive this truth? Isn't the paper you wrote proof? Didn't Jesus just confirm it with you when you went to church Sunday?" Why do you wish us to be sold out, when you, yourself are not sold out to it? |
|
I disagree. 
