Post by cwood85 on Aug 30, 2019 13:25:53 GMT -6
stormyknight, that is what pastors for many years have taught about Satan and what He did when the bible is talking about the King of Tyre and Nebuchadnezzar and even names them in both scriptures of Ezekiel and Isaiah. THEY (the kings) let their pride get the best of them and God knocked their butts back to reality. The reference to "you were there in the beginning in the garden of Eden", is talking about the pride and vanity of humans being there from the very start because that is what caused us to sin in the first place, thinking and being deceived into believing we could be like and at Gods level. This is not something I am going to debate however and would suggest some books on studying Hebrew and Aramaic literacy and poetry in writing/literature of the scriptures. VERY eye opening and informative.
How so, cwood85 ? Did not satan already set the precedent, being the pinnacle of beauty and wisdom, yet he still chose destruction? I mean, that is exactly what satan tried to do, supersede God with his vanity and pride. I don't think that is possible, God being: the I AM, the Alpha and Omega, etc. One cannot question God's Holy Spirit. I think that is why it is unpardonable. How do you feel if someone questions your spirit? Only you know your mind, how can someone question that? The same for God only multiplied by Infinity!
In my mind, it is important that in God's Kingdom that we choose salvation so that His Kingdom is only made up of those who want/choose to be there. He's not going to force anyone to do anything.(one might question that in light of 'well, why did he do x or y so His people would comply." I would say, if your kid tries to touch a hot stove you might smack their hand.) It is important that we have the choice. But on the other side of that, if one does not choose life, God, in His infinite wisdom, has the power to remove that person from existence so that they and anyone connected to them is not miserable. The simplicity of this is profound to me. All creation waits in eager longing for what? The all encompassing love of God's Kingdom. The revealing of the Children of God. Those who chose to be there.
"I would say, if your kid tries to touch a hot stove you might smack their hand.) It is important that we have the choice. Says who and why? Just trying to further understand this is all, not accusing or anything. But on the other side of that, if one does not choose life, God, in His infinite wisdom, has the power to remove that person from existence so that they and anyone connected to them is not miserable."
Please use scripture for this last sentance because I don't know any that reference this and would like to study it more.
I am sorry, but to me this is a contradiction. On one hand, we humans will keep our children from danger and even reprimand them for putting themselves in danger, but God in his infinite wisdom doesn't do the same to give us finite humans choice?!? Please also back up your last sentence that I quoted with scriptures.
"Hey Billy, don't cross the busy road because you could get hit by a car. We are your parents and we are telling you to not cross the road."
Billy ignores his parents warning and tries to cross the road. Parents gets more stern with Billy in concern of his safety and well being. As soon as his parents stop watching, he tries again not believing his parents warnings or taking them seriously. Billy isn't fully aware and cannot completely comprehend the extreme danger of a car hitting him and causing such blunt force trauma, that it will most likely kill him. He just wants to get to the other side of the road and that is all he is thinking about. What he wants.
This happens several more times and Billy's parents are getting worn out and frankly a bit fed up with their stubborn and disobedient child.
"Alright Billy, this is your last chance, if you try to cross that road again, we are not going to stop you. You have been given more than enough warnings, and we have now several times had to pull you away from the road and you just keep going back! So if you try to cross the road again, we are not going to stop you. We are going to give you the opportunity to make the choice for yourself on what is best for you. We wouldn't be good parents if we didn't let you decide this for yourself."
Billy turns around looking at the colorful park across the street he had been longing to play at all morning and then turns to look at his parents who are just sitting and chatting at a park bench. Billy decides to give it a go and risk crossing the road. He disobeys his parents initial warnings and thinks he has a pretty good chance at dodging the cars. Billy didn't factor in the brush however in the medan and comes out from behind it after crossing the first lane and a driver does not see him until it's too late. Billy was hit and instantly killed.
The driver gets out of the car mortified and sick with grief upon hitting and killing this boy. He turns and see's a couple by a bench wailing and sobbing across the road.
"Is this your son?!?" The driver calls out.
"Yes! We tried and tried to warn him and stop him but he just wouldn't listen to us!"
"What?!?" replied the distraught driver, "you LET him cross and didn't stop him! You gave up and let him walk into harms way?!?"
"Yes, we did everything we could but didn't want to force him to do something he did not and make him miserable, so we let him choose because he isn't a robot and we didn't want him to feel that way. We wanted our son to learn a valuable lesson on his own."
But Billy never learned the lesson, because Billy was DEAD!!! Were Billy's parents being just and sovereign? No! They were being HUGE jerks! This in our society would be considered neglect and extreme child abuse and endangerment. Even manslaughter to a degree and Billy's parents would be in prison.
So what would good and loving parents really do? Maybe give him a pop on his behind if he really kept at it or ground him and tell him if he tries to do that again, they will not go to the park to play in a little bit like they had told him they would and he just needed to listen and be patient. He needed to rest and trust that his parents knew best for him and loved him.
When I read some of the statements here, this is what I think of at least in real world scenarios. Sorry if they are vivid, my mind is a bit vivid and often scattered lol.