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Post by disciple4life on Oct 2, 2017 13:38:41 GMT -6
IF the rapture has to be fulfilled on a Feast Day and IF it should be Feast of Trumpets ... THEN we have two possibilities One the TRUE Feast Of Trumpets has not occurred yet this year .... if this is true then I would suspect the rapture will occur on October 19 19:12 UTC -- which is the NEXT NEW MOON. (This theory is that all the calendars were off -- because they inserted the wrong leap month at the wrong time) OR The Feast of Trumpets 2018 -- is the NEXT possible Date. ---------- I grew up with the imminence of the rapture (or it could happen anytime) ... so it is not bothering me too much that it did not happen on the Feast Of Trumpets (this year). The SIGN of Rev 12:1 -- did happen this year without a doubt.... I do believe the rapture will happen at the Rev 12:5 -- shortly after the "BIRTH" There have been too many "coincidence" that have all happened in a relatively short portion of time --- that still has me convinced we are in the season.... YET, the meaning of the Rev 12:1 sign -- the portion we know that happened on 9/23-24 --- has eluded us --- meaning we thought it might me rapture but since nothing is happen ... it obviously means something else..... Or like someone mentioned .... JUST a warning sign ... Bridge out ahead .... we just have not gotten far enough along passed the sign to know what the warning is relying to us......... Hey, KJS. Great post, my friend. Just to clarify. I'm not dogmatic - just trying to share my piece of the puzzle. I'm not saying "It has to be on Feast of Trumpets." Rather that nothing happened to "fulfill" Feast of Trumpets this year, - also Day of Atonement, nor did anything happen that was connected to the Revelation 12 sign.
***Rather I'm trying to make the point that it's too soon to say the Rev 12 sign was fulfilled - It's a sign - The point of a sign is that it points to something ahead, (or I think Silentknight) said it can point to something at hand, or in this location. I'm also trying to show why the theory that the real "last trump" was at Day of Atonement on Jubilee doesn't hold water. Hope that helps. ;-) Maranatha.
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Post by mike on Oct 2, 2017 14:16:45 GMT -6
Good stuff kjs & disciple4life, just a quick thought (which usually gets me in trouble)...Totally agree the sign occurred on the 23/24, but what purpose did it serve? what did it point to? As noted I think @silentknight said it someplace else that a sign points to something ahead but could also be like a "For Sale" sign. SO I think we know the sign wasn't a "For Sale" sign for the Rapture, but still could serve as a "Rapture Ahead" sign. |
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Post by kjs on Oct 2, 2017 14:31:41 GMT -6
I still see the Rev 12:1 sign as announcing the coming BIRTH.
Identifying when the BIRTH is the issue in my mind (is it when Jupiter leaves Virgo completely?)
I still feel in my gut (maybe just gas) -- that once the Birth happens -- the rapture will occur shortly after
but it appears that will not be on a feast day..... I have no problem with that -- but suspect others will.......
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Post by linda on Oct 2, 2017 16:50:58 GMT -6
stormyknight, I think you have a point. The fact that the Rev. 12 sign appeared so close to a feast day plus has all these different numbers related to it definitely got a lot of people's attention. In fact it happened within a couple of weeks of all 3 fall feasts. If the point of the sign is to warn us that it is close, it definitely did that. But as you said, it also got Satan's attention. I've recently begun thinking that the vague parts of prophecy are simply to keep Satan off guard and not let him put his own plans in motion too early.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Oct 2, 2017 20:09:39 GMT -6
I still see the Rev 12:1 sign as announcing the coming BIRTH. Identifying when the BIRTH is the issue in my mind (is it when Jupiter leaves Virgo completely?) I still feel in my gut (maybe just gas) -- that once the Birth happens -- the rapture will occur shortly after but it appears that will not be on a feast day..... I have no problem with that -- but suspect others will....... Jupiter goes into Libra ("the throne room" or altar) around Dec 25, I think, and stays for 11 months there... |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 2, 2017 20:52:59 GMT -6
I still see the Rev 12:1 sign as announcing the coming BIRTH. Identifying when the BIRTH is the issue in my mind (is it when Jupiter leaves Virgo completely?) I still feel in my gut (maybe just gas) -- that once the Birth happens -- the rapture will occur shortly after but it appears that will not be on a feast day.... I have no problem with that -- but suspect others will....... Hey kjs, I agree with the substance of your post, though I have a different hypothesis that gets me roughly the same answer. How do you account for Isa 66:7 (if at all)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ P.S: These hypotheses just occurred to me after reading the last half of verse 8: Jacob's trouble is the labor!This (bold) looks like Israel/Jerusalem (per verse 10) birthing the 144,000 or the trib saints, or both, rather than the harpazo of the church! The underlined part looks like a hint as to the sealing of the 144.000? That makes the Rev 12:1-2 sign an 'exit ahead' sign for the church; and a "you just missed it" sign for Israel and those who become the Trib saints. More from Isa 26:17-18: This looks like Israel is saying that they were crying out in pain and writhing in the presence of the Lord - from the Tribulation! we writhed in labor --->> Jacob's Trouble, the Tribulation! That which is birthed is in italics. It is the result of their efforts and all the ceremonies (works based righteousness) et al they have been doing for 2000 years, and continue doing even harder (jealousy) during the first half of the Trib! |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 2, 2017 21:03:59 GMT -6
I still see the Rev 12:1 sign as announcing the coming BIRTH. Identifying when the BIRTH is the issue in my mind (is it when Jupiter leaves Virgo completely?) I still feel in my gut (maybe just gas) -- that once the Birth happens -- the rapture will occur shortly after but it appears that will not be on a feast day..... I have no problem with that -- but suspect others will....... Jupiter goes into Libra ("the throne room" or altar) around Dec 25, I think, and stays for 11 months there... Do we see anything happening in a throne room or at an altar for the duration of 11 months or so in Revelation? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 21:06:35 GMT -6
Interesting thoughts yardstick....my understanding of Isaiah 66 has always been it represents the miraculous rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 after 2000 years of Diaspora......usually a nation fights, then gets independence. In this instance, Israel became a nation in one day, and then had to fight for independence....hence the birth of the nation before the labor of the war of independence....just my thinking....
I never thought the birth described in Isaiah 66: 7-8 could be reconciled with Rev 12 and the rapture....
Shalom!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 21:09:47 GMT -6
Jupiter goes into Libra ("the throne room" or altar) around Dec 25, I think, and stays for 11 months there... Do we see anything happening in a throne room or at an altar for the duration of 11 months or so in Revelation? Jupiter has a conjunction with Mars on 6 January 2018 in the middle of the scales of justice, Libra, which I believe may indicate war and judgment....at the same time that Saturn has escaped the Restrainer, Ophiuchus, and moved into Sagittarius with Pluto, or Hades... |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Oct 2, 2017 21:24:56 GMT -6
Jupiter goes into Libra ("the throne room" or altar) around Dec 25, I think, and stays for 11 months there... Do we see anything happening in a throne room or at an altar for the duration of 11 months or so in Revelation? We know the man-child is caught up to the throne. Maybe it's the duration of the opening of the seals... if they are all opened within the Trib and not before. The 11 months may not signify anything, but the man-child going into Libra may. Like, the man child entering Libra may be the end of the Sign. |
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Post by stormyknight on Oct 2, 2017 21:35:32 GMT -6
Do we see anything happening in a throne room or at an altar for the duration of 11 months or so in Revelation? We know the man-child is caught up to the throne. Maybe it's the duration of the opening of the seals... if they are all opened within the Trib and not before. The 11 months may not signify anything, but the man-child going into Libra may. Like, the man child entering Libra may be the end of the Sign. pardon my interruption, I've been follow you all's discourse intently. I wanted to add something I notice awhile back in Rev. 12:5. The first 'child' is definitely a male child as we all know. "huios" is the word in Strong's, which designates a male child. But, the second 'child', the one who is caught up, is "teknon", which can be male or female. I just thought I'd throw that out there. I'd like to know what you all think. (obvious to me would be 'it's the us, the church') |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 21:40:49 GMT -6
Teknon is used before and after......teknon, huion-arsen, teknon......bookends to set off the middle in the structure of the passage.....The Septuagint occurrences of huion and arsen in the OT is an interesting study....I would differ with Mike Svigel on his conclusion that huion-arsen points to Isaiah 66, although he makes a super case for his view. There are other uses of huion and arsen in the OT which lead me to believe differently than Mike, and we have exchanged emails on this.....
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Post by stormyknight on Oct 2, 2017 21:44:41 GMT -6
ok, nevermind, I'm just using Blue letter bible online and hit the concordance and it showed that two differing words for child. made me wonder. not a scholar here. I'll show myself out. haha
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 21:50:54 GMT -6
That was a great question stormyknight! Don't sell yourself short......I am only saying it is not a slam dunk on the huion-arsen points to Isaiah 66...there are well meaning believers who see it differently!
teknon occurs before and after huion-arsen....and there are many other references to huion and arsen which should be taken into account in my view before reaching the conclusion that it points to Isaiah 66 unequivocally....but that is only my opinion! Mike Svigel could be exactly right, and I could be stone cold wrong.....we all have to weigh things in the balance and judge, and decide which way we lean, while conceding we may be mistaken, and keep a humble and open mind
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karen
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Post by karen on Oct 2, 2017 21:51:48 GMT -6
Do we see anything happening in a throne room or at an altar for the duration of 11 months or so in Revelation? Jupiter has a conjunction with Mars on 6 January 2018 in the middle of the scales of justice, Libra, which I believe may indicate war and judgment....at the same time that Saturn has escaped the Restrainer, Ophiuchus, and moved into Sagittarius with Pluto, or Hades... Jupiter has a conjunction with Venus on November 12, 2017 just between the borders of Virgo and Libra. Paul Watchman has an excellent video called The Corruption of Libra and the Holy Altar, in which he states..... "An attempt by Satan to distort God's message of Salvation in the heavens. The Altar was replaced by the Weighing Scales which we see represented in the modern depiction of the constellation Libra. The sacrifice was replaced with works of righteousness. This brings new light to the Revelation Chapter 12 sign and the progression of events along the ecliptic after the sign which match up perfectly with the Book of Revelation. God's message of salvation is written in the stars!". |
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