Personal thoughts on date-setting (discussion! Open minded.)

moonedone ,

If the point is that we don't know what tomorrow will bring based on yesterday - we all agree.

If the point is that God does not have to work within a certain framework but can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, I would disagree.

If I am hearing you correctly:

The irony that I am seeing is this - you are arguing that God can act however he wants, but you are basing your arguments on a very tightly held view of logic (and holding others to the same structure).  This is like the atheist telling a Christian that they can't use the bible to prove God.  The atheist does not hold value in the bible and therefore discounts its credibility. But the atheist's lack of belief in the bible does not actual prove it is invalid.  The atheist appears to be taking the "logical" or "scientific" approach by setting the limit on using the bible, but indeed, they are actually taking the opposite - making a claim that the bible is invalid without proving it to be invalid.

In the same way, insisting that discussions about God be based on rational inductive and deductive reasoning with appropriately applied logical proofs is an invalid way of discussing God and His ways.  God is not restricted to the confines of logical argument.

However, I will engage in this slightly so as to meet your request.

Let's deal with Hume's law:

Now - the basis of hume's law is credible - that which ought to be does not necessarily follow that which is - but hume's law itself falls apart due to the paradox built within hume's law.

Here is the paradox - Hume's Law (HL) says we cannot determine what will be based on what is.  But HL applied to itself would reverse itself.  Please allow me to demonstrate:

A:  We cannot determine what will be from what is.
B:  For this proof, Point A is what is.
Therefore: According to Hume's law, Since Point A is what is, Point A cannot be used to determine what will be.
Therefore: Since point A IS Hume's law and our conclusion demonstrates that we cannot use point A to determine what will be,  hume's law obliterates itself.  Hume's law is either false - which means it is useless, or it is true, which means it is useless.

Now - let us leave the foolishness of man's wisdom to discuss the ways of God:

God is his own jailer, but that does not make him lawless
God, will at times restrict his behavior to follow a "law" that he has created for himself. Within those times he cannot do "just anything". He is predictable according to our understanding of that "law."  When we don't understand the law or timing, we make mistakes in our predictions.  This is due to our lack of understanding, not due to God choosing to do "anything he wants."  

Proof:  God says, if you build a pit and don't put a fence around it and your neighbor's ox falls into the pit and is killed, you are responsible to pay the price for your neighbor's ox.
God created a garden and placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden (a pit) and did not build a fence around it.  Adam and Eve fell into the pit and therefore God must pay the price for that ox.  He did, he died on a cross for the redemption of all.

He could have said - I'm God, I can do whatever I want, but he followed the "law" that defines his character and paid the price for our sin.  


Ramifications:
So what difference does it make?  It is easy to believe in the impossible.  We see it on TV and in books from a very young age - super heroes, magic, etc.  The "impossible" happens every time someone wins the lottery.  What is hard to do is to trust.  It takes us time to trust, we need to understand what we are trusting, we need to see a pattern of behavior.  If the lottery randomly didn't pay the winner who got the right number, people would stop playing.  Not because they didn't believe they might win, but because they wouldn't trust the authority that was supposed to pay.

We love and indeed trust God, because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  He demonstrated that he held himself to a certain "law" - his character.  He continues to demonstrate this every day: the sun does come up, the rain does fall, we take our next breath, and our heart beats another beat.  So, while we cannot fully discern the depth of his character, his law, his timing - we do know that he has a plan and is executing it and things are not just randomly done based on a whim.  And we believe that he has called us to study, meditate, and get to know him and his plan.  So, we continue to build our understanding of our God by seeking his ways and seeking his face - until we can look into his eyes and hear him say, Well done, good and faithful servant.

I don't know about anyone else, but my faith isn't in Hume's Law. My faith is the word of God, which clearly states that among other things, God gave us the stars for signs. We have also been commanded by our Lord to watch, lest they catch us unawares.

Gary is certainly not setting a date, nor is anyone here. That is David Meade's territory, and he seems to be in it for the money. I recognize you are new to this fellowship, and we are so glad to have you, but we are a group who is very excited about our blessed hope, and we are not afraid to speculate as to when that may come to pass based on the scriptures and the signs our Lord has given us. We can argue philosphy all day long, but God's ways are above ours, and our best wisdom is but foolishness to him. I can assure none has been crushed, we merely remain steadfast in following our Lord's command, regardless of when he calls us up.

thetimeoftheend amen

I do think god made the rules of logic. Even god cant bend them
Cant make squared circles etc
This is the basis of plantingas free will defense

yes moonedone,

I believe this thread has run its course.

When you have a moment, I encourage you to ask the Lord to show you His character, then read Matthew 5. You will see that some things are outside of logic.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. I'm on to other things.