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Post by mike on Sept 24, 2017 6:12:54 GMT -6
Wonder if this is how those who were "on site" at the time of the triumphal entry felt, who them saw the crucifixion. Excitement then let down.
Even the apostles got the whole thing wrong. Their expectation was different than what the true outcome was (days later).
Perhaps the outcome is still (7-8) days away as many have suggested.
Either way we continue to hope that today, tomorrow, next week, next year He will call us and meet us.
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Post by spacethinker on Sept 24, 2017 8:37:21 GMT -6
yardstick & linda Not sure how the news would dismiss the open/empty graves. Because the motherships that will appear over the planet will say "Hi, we're here to help. We can cure all your diseases, but we need some human genetic material to learn from, the more diverse the better. We won't take any live specimens [yet] if we can just gather the material from your graves, you don't need those anymore, right? So just stay away from the graveyards. You may see strange things, but stay away because... radiation, yeah that's it. In the meantime, look at this shiny thing!" I actually think the deception will be something of this magnitude. More directly on the issue on the 9/23 "disappointment" felt by some, I think the sign is still the sign. I think the sign is still a picture of the birth/rapture. And I strongly suspect it will happen on a feast day. An analogy I think of goes like this: Guide: You're going to drive all the way across America, and you'll see and do things. You'll eventually reach the coast to swim in the ocean, and at some point you'll see the world's largest ball of twine by the side of the road. Us: Hey look! That's GOTTA be the world's largest ball of twine! Does that mean the ocean is around the corner? I don't know! But we've been travelling for 2000 miles [years] and we just saw a confirming milestone, so it means we're still on the route. That example is not meant to be flippant or irreverent, just accessible. Keep watchin! |
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karen
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Post by karen on Sept 24, 2017 9:32:54 GMT -6
Last night I was discouraged and filled the empty time by watching a youtube movie of the gospel of John. In one scene where Jesus is speaking to the pharisees at the temple during the feast of Sukkot, I noticed some people in the crowd were holding palm branches. It reminded me of Revelation 7:9 - "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” NKJV Sukkot is the last of the fall feasts. I remembered a Chuck Missler video I had watched a long time ago in which he was talking about the word torah being coded into the Torah forward at 49 letter intervals in Genesis and Exodus and 49 letter intervals backwards in Numbers and Deuteronomy, (Leviticus has instead YHVH at 7 letter interval). He called this the fingerprints of the Holy Spirit. My weary mind thought of this as 3 puzzle pieces....could the fall feasts be fulfilled backwards?  Chuck Missler bible code youtube gospel of John scene (minute mark 100.00 - 100.01) Sorry I don't know how to embed or take screen shots |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 10:10:56 GMT -6
Wonder if this is how those who were "on site" at the time of the triumphal entry felt, who them saw the crucifixion. Excitement then let down. Even the apostles got the whole thing wrong. Their expectation was different than what the true outcome was (days later). Perhaps the outcome is still (7-8) days away as many have suggested.
Either way we continue to hope that today, tomorrow, next week, next year He will call us and meet us.Well said, mike. He will surely do. He is faithful! In the meantime we are committed to do His work and to have faith in Him. Not in a sign. Can it be, that this may also be a test for the heart of the believers? Do we trust signs and interpretations thereof or do we set our hope and only hope in Him? Disappointment and discouragement may be an indicator that we put our eggs in the wrong basket... The sign was and is real and serves a purpose. I'm quite sure. But the interpretation of the sign is a different story and the supposed events to follow or precede this sign may lie ahead before us some time in the future. |
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Post by mike on Sept 24, 2017 10:56:53 GMT -6
@stephan, good to know I'm not thinking crazy. Thanks brother spacethinker not only the graves but several million alive will also be "swept up". I do agree it is the only "logical" explanation that can be bought |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 24, 2017 11:11:13 GMT -6
No. what they will dismiss is any kind of warning that the rapture really is here. As in within a week or two. Or even a couple days. Yes, friend, agreed, and this is made worse when Scott Clark and others - instead of having a bit of humility and saying - "Look, guys, I'm sorry. I was wrong.I should have taken the red flags raised by other Christians more seriously." He released another video saying that Sept 24 is a better alignment. ;-( He has studied it for 6 years, and said he used the high tech software to check 1000 years into the future, but couldn't check the next day??
So many Christians saw holes, and there was a lot of speculation and assuming, and when I and others raised these questions, concerns, - they get labeled as a mocker, scoffer and/or a naysayer.
Another huge problem with this alignment - was that it you could only see part of it, and in certain parts of the world - thus the introduction of the speculation that there would be something huge to create an eclipse. This added further speculation that Planet X/ Nibiru actually was what caused the 3 hours of darkness at the crucifixion. It wasn't on a feast day, and multiple people actually said it was, and tried to make it fit. Then there are others, who bring in the 'alleged Christ angle and pyramid theories'. Pyramids were based on ancient Egyptian occult practices.
I totally get that it's a forum and people have different views on apostasy, and tribulation theories, and so on -and I love the discussions and different perspectives. I think that it's ok to also say that the alignment was there - and it was just that - nothing more. An unusual alignment, but not the Revelation 12 sign. It was out of order, and not on a Jewish Feast day, and only partly visible, and the sun was by her shoulder. We can be thankful that we won't have to wonder about that, or Planet x for at least the next 100 years.
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Post by findtruth on Sept 24, 2017 12:01:26 GMT -6
Revelation 12:1-5King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Please everyone look at these 5 verses closely. Notice that in verse 1 that the sign appeared; the women was about to give birth. She however did not give birth till verse five.
My point is that there are many gaps of time in the scripture. Look at example Daniel's 70 weeks. There is a gap of 2000 plus years. Couldn't there be a gap between verses 3 and then another one at verse 5? Something to think about.
The revelation 12:1 did for sure happen. The rest will also occur but in my opinion, maybe not on the same day. I do think that the time frame for the rest of the verseswill occur shortly after .
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Post by yardstick on Sept 24, 2017 12:16:42 GMT -6
yardstick & linda Not sure how the news would dismiss the open/empty graves. One theme seems to ring true for most of us before today, today and still prevalent. Trying to make the rapture into a date. For example "it has to be on the feast of trumpets" or "well we missed this feast gotta wait until next year" and "maybe these dates will fit into the window". Not being critical of anyone cuz I'm just as guilty but I'm starting to think about overanalyzing this and just starting to kick back and allow the Holy Spirit to work. All of our speculation has been just that. We inadvertently give cause to the naysayers with our hypotheticals. Hey mike, I am not sure the graves will be open. Empty? Yes. Open? Unnecessary? I am going to suggest that we give cause to the naysayers when we don't keep it hypothetical. When we accept hypotheses as fact or truth, instead of keeping them as the speculation (for purposes of discussion) that hypotheses are supposed to be. But I agree with your suggestion of caution. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 12:20:35 GMT -6
@d4l Good points brother! I believe it isn't over yet....personally I never thought the Rev12 sign meant the rapture, because I am pre-wrath in outlook....I believe the sign of Labor ultimately points to the birth in 12:5, and with Jupiter still within Virgo, I don't see a celestial correlate to the birth as of yet. One option was when Jupiter fell below the belt line of Virgo, but that didn't work out. The next possible birth of Jupiter is when it crosses the line from Spica to Kappa Virginis on 15 October, and then another on 13 November when it finally leaves the constellation boundary (subjective construct, I know!) of Virgo at the same time it has the last of 5 conjunctions with Venus.
I have communicated with Daniel Matson today, and his timeline for the 70th week is only about one month different from the one I put together. His is based on a 70th week onset of 19 November, while mine is based on a 70th week onset of 15 October. If we combined our views, a window of opportunity still exists for something to occur, like yardstick has put forth, a window of probabilities. The window would run from about 13 October through 22 November 2017. Daniel Matson and my pre-trib friends would look for a rapture in that time frame, assuming it doesn't occur on Yom Kippur, while as a pre-wrath adherent I would expect some sort of agreement to divide the Land of the Everlasting Covenant by deeding Judea, Samaria, and E.Jerusalem to Esau, maybe with details to be hashed out later, like a player to be named later. If that were the case, then from a pre-wrath viewpoint the rapture might be expected the fall of 2023.
This is a prospective study, since none of know at this point for sure if the celestial signs can be extended to something on earth.....we will find out! If they do not happen in the window, it only means that we will still be on the watch for the 70th week, to be marked in the future by a covenant to divide the Land. If they do happen, then the signs would be validated, and we can project through the remainder of the 70th week....
This is my take on all of it......if it doesn't come to pass, our faith in the future 70th week culminated by return of Messiah to earth with His saints is still intact!
Shalom d4L!
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Post by yardstick on Sept 24, 2017 12:21:54 GMT -6
Last night I was discouraged and filled the empty time by watching a youtube movie of the gospel of John. In one scene where Jesus is speaking to the pharisees at the temple during the feast of Sukkot, I noticed some people in the crowd were holding palm branches. It reminded me of Revelation 7:9 - "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” NKJV Sukkot is the last of the fall feasts. I remembered a Chuck Missler video I had watched a long time ago in which he was talking about the word torah being coded into the Torah forward at 49 letter intervals in Genesis and Exodus and 49 letter intervals backwards in Numbers and Deuteronomy, (Leviticus has instead YHVH at 7 letter interval). He called this the fingerprints of the Holy Spirit. My weary mind thought of this as 3 puzzle pieces.... could the fall feasts be fulfilled backwards? Chuck Missler bible code youtube gospel of John scene (minute mark 100.00 - 100.01) Sorry I don't know how to embed or take screen shots intriguing... |
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Post by profalphdthd on Sept 24, 2017 12:28:20 GMT -6
My point is that there are many gaps of time in the scripture. Look at example Daniel's 70 weeks. There is a gap of 2000 plus years. Couldn't there be a gap between verses 3 and then another one at verse 5? Something to think about. The revelation 12:1 did for sure happen. The rest will also occur but in my opinion, maybe not on the same day. I do think that the time frame for the rest of the verseswill occur shortly after . I agree. Nothing in the Revelation 12:1-5 passage necessarily REQUIRES instantaneous fulfillment of all the aspects mentioned in that passage, as we Westerners with "instant coffee," and "fast food" are culturally influenced to think. Let's think about this, removing presuppositions, and just look at what the Revelation 12:1-5 is saying and not saying: Revelation 12:1 "And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE THIS WAS INDEED FULFILLED ON September 23/24. Revelation 12:2 "She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth." I was present for the birth of our sons, and labor occurred over several days with some of our sons--SO SCRIPTURE IS NOT NECESSARILY STATING THAT LABOR IS ALL ACCOMPLISHED ON THE SAME DAY OF THE GREAT SIGN. Revelation 12:3 "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems." Here we have yet another event, AND SCRIPTURE IS NOT NECESSARILY STATING THAT THIS SECOND SIGN OCCURS ON THE SAME DAY OF THE "GREAT SIGN." But the encouraging fact is that this sequence of events is now started, meaning that the rapture is coming soon. Revelation 12:4 "His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it." It is very possible that this next event could take more than one day to occur, or occurs on a subsequent day sequentially, SCRIPTURE IS NOT NECESSARILY STATING THAT THIS THE DRAGON'S TAIL SWEEPS A THIRD OF STARS ON THE SAME DAY OF THE "GREAT SIGN," but this could be very soon because it is next in the sequence of events! Revelation 12:5 "She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne," Now this is the event we are waiting for--with blessed hope! But SCRIPTURE IS NOT NECESSARILY STATING THAT THE WOMAN GAVE BIRTH ON THE SAME DAY OF THE "GREAT SIGN," but only apparently AFTER the second sign and AFTER dragon's predicted actions. So the very text of Revelation 12:1-5 could very well be like the welcomed sign on a highway that our home town is "5 miles ahead." We're getting VERY CLOSE. God never promised that the Great Sign and subsequent events are all going to happen the SAME DAY, but that the sign signals that this sequence of events has been triggered. SO, it is NOT a "fudge factor" (as some think) to consider the possibility, for example, that "as in the days of Noah" that Noah entered the ark 7 days BEFORE RAIN, or that Leviticus 25:8-9 may appropriately tell us that the Apostle Paul's "last trump" teaching for the rapture is going to be on the Day of Atonement (even though we don't know exactly if this is a Jubilee year, but God would certainly know). Both the Noah model and the Leviticus 25:8-9 model would anticipate that the "Great Sign" was a 7 day advanced notice. SO, let's carefully separate [1] what Scripture ABSOLUTELY INFALLIBLY states from [2] our imposed added hypotheses or presuppositions or theological theories that are not part of Scripture. If we do make this careful distinction, and if the astronomy software users are correct that the alignment uniquely occurred yesterday and today (NOTE: the "great sign" was apparently on 2-days itself--not just one day), then the great news is that the Revelation 12:1-5 sequence of events is NOW triggered, so the sequential events are absolutely going to happen over a Scriptually-undefined number of days. Professor Al, Ph.D., Th.D. Bible professor on an undisclosed unreached mission field |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 24, 2017 12:41:59 GMT -6
@d4l Good points brother! I believe it isn't over yet....personally I never thought the Rev12 sign meant the rapture, because I am pre-wrath in outlook....I believe the sign of Labor ultimately points to the birth in 12:5, and with Jupiter still within Virgo, I don't see a celestial correlate to the birth as of yet. One option was when Jupiter fell below the belt line of Virgo, but that didn't work out. The next possible birth of Jupiter is when it crosses the line from Spica to Kappa Virginis on 15 October, and then another on 13 November when it finally leaves the constellation boundary (subjective construct, I know!) of Virgo at the same time it has the last of 5 conjunctions with Venus. I have communicated with Daniel Matson today, and his timeline for the 70th week is only about one month different from the one I put together. His is based on a 70th week onset of 19 November, while mine is based on a 70th week onset of 15 October. If we combined our views, a window of opportunity still exists for something to occur, like yardstick has put forth, a window of probabilities. The window would run from about 13 October through 22 November 2017. Daniel Matson and my pre-trib friends would look for a rapture in that time frame, assuming it doesn't occur on Yom Kippur, while as a pre-wrath adherent I would expect some sort of agreement to divide the Land of the Everlasting Covenant by deeding Judea, Samaria, and E.Jerusalem to Esau, maybe with details to be hashed out later, like a player to be named later. If that were the case, then from a pre-wrath viewpoint the rapture might be expected the fall of 2023. This is a prospective study, since none of know at this point for sure if the celestial signs can be extended to something on earth.....we will find out! If they do not happen in the window, it only means that we will still be on the watch for the 70th week, to be marked in the future by a covenant to divide the Land. If they do happen, then the signs would be validated, and we can project through the remainder of the 70th week.... This is my take on all of it......if it doesn't come to pass, our faith in the future 70th week culminated by return of Messiah to earth with His saints is still intact! Shalom d4L! Thanks for your input! The dates in blue are definitely in the window that I tabulated in the excel spreadsheet that is posted in a message in one of the threads. For the record, my personal hypothesis is that 'a prevailing covenant with many' will occur between Oct 15 and Nov 19; and that the harpazo, then by process of elimination should then occur prior to Oct 15 (though there is some wiggle room still)... I am still hypothesizing the possibility that the feasts are for the Jews, not the gentiles church; and so the Feast of Shouts/Trumpets should mark the Second Coming in 2024. |
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Post by brad on Sept 24, 2017 12:51:43 GMT -6
 I agree, time to punt won't be until November 19. |
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Post by mike on Sept 24, 2017 12:54:31 GMT -6
Just was thinking of this for consistency Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
yardstick but it's not absolutely necessary to mirror, is it? Jesus' tomb was open after all so it wouldn't be a stretch right? |
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Post by Rick on Sept 24, 2017 13:56:41 GMT -6
yardstick & linda Not sure how the news would dismiss the open/empty graves. One theme seems to ring true for most of us before today, today and still prevalent. Trying to make the rapture into a date. For example "it has to be on the feast of trumpets" or "well we missed this feast gotta wait until next year" and "maybe these dates will fit into the window". Not being critical of anyone cuz I'm just as guilty but I'm starting to think about overanalyzing this and just starting to kick back and allow the Holy Spirit to work. All of our speculation has been just that. We inadvertently give cause to the naysayers with our hypotheticals. Hey mike, don't be discouraged at all. If nothing else the fellow shipping has been great. This just gives us that much more time to do what Yeshua commanded us to do, Mat22: 37-39 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The sign in the heavens was and truly is just that, a sign. I believe it was given to the Jewish people. As long as we are found waiting and watching no matter what the world does. |
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