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Post by yardstick on Sept 23, 2017 20:01:36 GMT -6
... Third, I do believe all the feasts including the Feast of Trumpets are prophetic, but there are plenty of scholars who suggest that its fulfillment will happen at the end of the 7 year tribulation. Just as the spring feasts were all fulfilled sequentially the same year, it's possible the same could be true of the fall feasts with some aspect of Christ's second coming falling on Feast of Trumpets prior to a judgment on the Day of Atonement. If the Feast of Trumpets were fulfilled by the rapture, then we would have a stray fall feast fulfilled 7 years prior to the final two. That has actually bothered me through the years because it didn't seem to fit the precedent of Jesus' fulfillment of all the Spring feasts during his first coming during the same year. So if we can let go of the Feast of Trumpets rapture (and I think we have good reason to), then I think we can continue to watch expectantly in the days ahead. So here, we have Option Two of the Flow chart - Any Day is possible. could be on April 1 or May 2, or October 31st, or Friday the 13th. **I'm just trying to think it through with all my fellow watchmen. ;-) How can the Feasts be a shadow of things to come if the Rapture and Second coming are on random days?? I don't mean it in an aggressive way- I'm trying to see how that would be possible. It also raises another question of why Christ fulfilled all the first four in perfect order and perfection precision - on the day, and doesn't fulfill the Fall Feasts on the day??? All of the reasons that make 2017 a good year for the rapture and the start of the Tribulation continue to be true. The only apparent problem now to me seems to be the need to make the rapture fit with Feast of Trumpets. The Great Sign of Revelation 12 is ongoing and will still be in place through September 24, and the rapture might happen during that time or some time after the sign has concluded, and we still have almost two months before the Tribulation would need to start if it were to end on the feasts of 2024. Thoughts? I'd like to throw this into the debate ring: What if the Feast of Trumpets isn't for the rapture (thats a gentile thing) its for the second coming? in 2024? What does the timeline look like then? We should consider also the extra 'leap-month' scenario, the 45 day scenario (1335 days) and the Noah 57 day scenario, imho and compare and contrast them. What do you guys think? |
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Post by Rick on Sept 23, 2017 20:35:52 GMT -6
As I write this, the sun has set in Jerusalem on September 23. Most people say the Feast of Trumpets ended last night, but by some reckoning it continued into today. However, even if the 23rd is still the Feast of Trumpets, the only place it is still ongoing is in the western parts of the world, and when the sun sets in Alaska and Hawaii it will be over. Thoughts? Hey bruce , as I was reading through your post it gave me a thought. Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 feasts while He was with the Jewish people. Then Pentacost was fulfilled with the Holy Spirit. After Stephen was stoned Yeshua then turned His attention to the gentiles through Paul. My thought is maybe when the tribulation period begins and Yeshua once again turns His attention back to the Jewish people, He will fulfill the last 3 feast during that period. My only thought is the church should be caught up before the tribulation begins. Just my thoughts but it may be worth looking into. 2Ti 2:15 |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 23, 2017 21:11:58 GMT -6
As I write this, the sun has set in Jerusalem on September 23. Most people say the Feast of Trumpets ended last night, but by some reckoning it continued into today. However, even if the 23rd is still the Feast of Trumpets, the only place it is still ongoing is in the western parts of the world, and when the sun sets in Alaska and Hawaii it will be over. Thoughts? Hey bruce , as I was reading through your post it gave me a thought. Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 feasts while He was with the Jewish people. Then Pentacost was fulfilled with the Holy Spirit. After Stephen was stoned Yeshua then turned His attention to the gentiles through Paul. My thought is maybe when the tribulation period begins and Yeshua once again turns His attention back to the Jewish people, He will fulfill the last 3 feast during that period. My only thought is the church should be caught up before the tribulation begins. Just my thoughts but it may be worth looking into. 2Ti 2:15 My current hypothesis is that the feast days are for the Jews, not the gentiles; and therefore, the day of trumpets/shouting is for the second coming! in 2024! Counting backwards from that date 1260+1290+(possibly)45+(possibly)30 = Confirmed covenant date! The Harpazo must occur before that! |
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Post by bruce on Sept 23, 2017 21:24:09 GMT -6
Hey bruce , as I was reading through your post it gave me a thought. Yeshua fulfilled the first 3 feasts while He was with the Jewish people. Then Pentacost was fulfilled with the Holy Spirit. After Stephen was stoned Yeshua then turned His attention to the gentiles through Paul. My thought is maybe when the tribulation period begins and Yeshua once again turns His attention back to the Jewish people, He will fulfill the last 3 feast during that period. My only thought is the church should be caught up before the tribulation begins. Just my thoughts but it may be worth looking into. 2Ti 2:15 My current hypothesis is that the feast days are for the Jews, not the gentiles; and therefore, the day of trumpets/shouting is for the second coming! in 2024! Counting backwards from that date 1260+1290+(possibly)45+(possibly)30 = Confirmed covenant date! The Harpazo must occur before that! I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 23, 2017 21:27:38 GMT -6
My current hypothesis is that the feast days are for the Jews, not the gentiles; and therefore, the day of trumpets/shouting is for the second coming! in 2024! Counting backwards from that date 1260+1290+(possibly)45+(possibly)30 = Confirmed covenant date! The Harpazo must occur before that! I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles Hypothesis: T he harpazo is for the gentiles! Not the Jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! The jews were asking if he was going to set up is kingdom. Which kingdom? The Millennial kingdom! When does this get set up? After the Tribulation! After the harpazo! After the times of the gentiles! |
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Post by Rick on Sept 23, 2017 21:37:01 GMT -6
I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles Hypothesis: The harpazo is for the gentiles! not the jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! Exactly but as you said, Isa 66 gives me pause. I'll need to look into that a bit more |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 23, 2017 21:48:52 GMT -6
caught me in an edit LOL
So how about this:
The travailing refers to Israel, not the celestial sign. The celestial sign primarily is described in Rev 12:1. Rev 12:2 starts a transition from the celestial representation to actual Israel?
The travailing is geo-political in nature.
The Dragon is the system being set up that will devour the saved who would not otherwise participate (take the mark).
The baby is harpazo'd before the system can be put in place!
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Post by Rick on Sept 23, 2017 22:26:51 GMT -6
caught me in an edit LOL So how about this: The travailing refers to Israel, not the celestial sign. The celestial sign primarily is described in Rev 12:1. Rev 12:2 starts a transition from the celestial representation to actual Israel? The travailing is geo-political in nature. The Dragon is the system being set up that will devour the saved who would not otherwise participate (take the mark). The baby is harpazo'd before the system can be put in place! Sorry yardstick, the Lord was speaking to me. Points 3 & 4 I can definitely see. Point 2 is questionable and as to the first point, The first part seems right as to being Israel as a nation. Israel brought forth Yeshua and delivered him to be crucified before they (Israel) had travailed or pained to be delivered. But this will happen to them as a nation during the tribulation period. Yeshua is going to bring them to their knees. and..... Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; They shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: They shall be amazed one at another; Their faces shall be as flames The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Is 13:8). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc. |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 23, 2017 23:19:04 GMT -6
caught me in an edit LOL So how about this: The travailing refers to Israel, not the celestial sign. The celestial sign primarily is described in Rev 12:1. Rev 12:2 starts a transition from the celestial representation to actual Israel? The travailing is geo-political in nature. The Dragon is the system being set up that will devour the saved who would not otherwise participate (take the mark). The baby is harpazo'd before the system can be put in place! Sorry yardstick , the Lord was speaking to me. Points 3 & 4 I can definitely see. Point 2 is questionable and as to the first point, The first part seems right as to being Israel as a nation. Israel brought forth Yeshua and delivered him to be crucified before they (Israel) had travailed or pained to be delivered. But this will happen to them as a nation during the tribulation period. Yeshua is going to bring them to their knees. and..... Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; They shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: They shall be amazed one at another;
Their faces shall be as flamesThe Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Is 13:8). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 24, 2017 0:20:52 GMT -6
My current hypothesis is that the feast days are for the Jews, not the gentiles; and therefore, the day of trumpets/shouting is for the second coming! in 2024! Counting backwards from that date 1260+1290+(possibly)45+(possibly)30 = Confirmed covenant date! The Harpazo must occur before that! I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. There was a book or essay I read once (I really wish I could find it again...) that talked about the Jewish feasts and the traditions. One of the traditions with the Feast of Trumpets was that as soon as the new moon was sighted and the beacons were lit, the people living in the countryside had exactly 3 1/2 days to get to Jerusalem for Yom Kippur before the gates were shut. Once the gates were shut, nobody was allowed into or out of Jerusalem until after Yom Kippur concluded. Just something to consider. |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 24, 2017 6:11:39 GMT -6
I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles I'm trying to think critically and am just another watchman with you guys- and so blessed to be able to share ideas - ;-) The problem with this model, is that as of this point, at the fulfillment of the first three - there was no church and even by Pentecost a very small number of Gentile believers, so the first four Spring feasts were categorically different. One of the biggest problems of many churches and denominations today is that they totally discount and ignore the Feasts, and miss crucial keys about End Times. **In Colossians 4, Paul was speaking to a mixed audience - and he said that the Feasts are a shadow of (Point to) things to come. Hypothesis: T he harpazo is for the gentiles! Not the Jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! Harpazo is for all those who have accepted the Messiah - Jewish and Gentile. There are tens of thousands of Messianic Jews, maybe millions, - It is certainly for these. Also, there is more markers, more parallels between Harpazo/rapture and Feast of Trumpets, than any other feast. No other Feast even comes close. - No Last Trumpet - No trumpets with any other feast. (except blowing a trumpet on Day of Atonement in Jubilee year).
- no Day of Shouting,
- no open door, Heaven's gate/door opened
- no coronation of kings,
- no resurrection, no wedding imagery,
- no trumpets. No other Feast even has trumpets. Harpazo is found in 1 Thes 4:16-17, which is the resurrection of the dead. Jews for centuries (and even now) understand that the resurrection happens at Yom Teruah. Jews also understand that the doors of heaven are opened at Feast of Trumpets and closed at Day of Atonement. 'Harpazo' is not found in any other passage connected to or describing a feast.
But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! The jews were asking if he was going to set up is kingdom. Which kingdom? The Millennial kingdom! When does this get set up? After the Tribulation! After the harpazo! After the times of the gentiles!
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Post by yardstick on Sept 24, 2017 12:02:47 GMT -6
I mostly agree. However, the Jews will recognize that salvation has come to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11) and that will make them jealous, so some correlation between the rapture and the Torah feasts that is meaningful to Israel shouldn't be ruled out. It could be Feast of Trumpets (but as of now that seems less likely if it is going to happen in 2017) but any time during the Days of Awe or Tabernacles might also produce the same jealousy. That still leaves open the possibility of the final fulfillment of Feast of Trumpets happening at the end of the Tribulation when Jesus returns with the saints. I think the feasts can have multiple fulfillments, but there will be a final fulfillment, and I increasingly expect the final fulfillment to happen for all of the fall feasts in the same year when Jesus returns to the Earth after the Tribulation. How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles I'm trying to think critically and am just another watchman with you guys- and so blessed to be able to share ideas - ;-) The problem with this model, is that as of this point, at the fulfillment of the first three - there was no church and even by Pentecost a very small number of Gentile believers, so the first four Spring feasts were categorically different. One of the biggest problems of many churches and denominations today is that they totally discount and ignore the Feasts, and miss crucial keys about End Times. **In Colossians 4, Paul was speaking to a mixed audience - and he said that the Feasts are a shadow of (Point to) things to come. Hypothesis: T he harpazo is for the gentiles! Not the Jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! Harpazo is for all those who have accepted the Messiah - Jewish and Gentile. There are tens of thousands of Messianic Jews, maybe millions, - It is certainly for these. Also, there is more markers, more parallels between Harpazo/rapture and Feast of Trumpets, than any other feast. No other Feast even comes close. - No Last Trumpet - No trumpets with any other feast. (except blowing a trumpet on Day of Atonement in Jubilee year).
- no Day of Shouting,
- no open door, Heaven's gate/door opened
- no coronation of kings,
- no resurrection, no wedding imagery,
- no trumpets. No other Feast even has trumpets. Harpazo is found in 1 Thes 4:16-17, which is the resurrection of the dead. Jews for centuries (and even now) understand that the resurrection happens at Yom Teruah. Jews also understand that the doors of heaven are opened at Feast of Trumpets and closed at Day of Atonement. 'Harpazo' is not found in any other passage connected to or describing a feast.
But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! The jews were asking if he was going to set up is kingdom. Which kingdom? The Millennial kingdom! When does this get set up? After the Tribulation! After the harpazo! After the times of the gentiles!
Thanks for your comments! I absolutely appreciate anyone poking holes in any hypothesis a make! I also am more than willing to alter my hypotheses based upon new information/ideas! I do see where I have apparently misstated what I am trying to say. But also I see something in what you said that still fits with what I may call the Jewish model (for lack of a more presently precise term). Allow me to clarify: When I said the harpazo is for the gentiles not the jews, I should have said the converse to more accurately make my point: The feasts are for the Jews, not the gentiles Church. Therefore, a feast would not necessarily indicate a harpazo. This appears to be the case, as we are all still here, notwithstanding Yom Teruah this year! However, there is a clear indication in scripture, IMHO, where Jesus is talking about the second coming, and we have conflated that with the harpazo. For instance, much of Matt 24 is related to the Jews, the Tribulation and the Second Coming, not the gentiles. So what I am asking is: What if the Yom Teruah parallels the Second Coming, in 2024, not the harpazo? How would we map this chronologically? Work backwards from then to see what dates we get for this year (7 years prior), right? Don't those dates fall between 9/30 and 11/19? Such a hypothesis, would [not just in hindsight, but also not necessarily] prior to 9/23, have indicated that 9/23 was not a 'valid' date for the harpazo, right? Is this a little more clear? Sometimes I fall on my face trying to explain my (non-math) thought processes. |
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Post by Rick on Sept 24, 2017 12:56:22 GMT -6
How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles I'm trying to think critically and am just another watchman with you guys- and so blessed to be able to share ideas - ;-) The problem with this model, is that as of this point, at the fulfillment of the first three - there was no church and even by Pentecost a very small number of Gentile believers, so the first four Spring feasts were categorically different. One of the biggest problems of many churches and denominations today is that they totally discount and ignore the Feasts, and miss crucial keys about End Times. **In Colossians 4, Paul was speaking to a mixed audience - and he said that the Feasts are a shadow of (Point to) things to come. Hypothesis: T he harpazo is for the gentiles! Not the Jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! Harpazo is for all those who have accepted the Messiah - Jewish and Gentile. There are tens of thousands of Messianic Jews, maybe millions, - It is certainly for these. Also, there is more markers, more parallels between Harpazo/rapture and Feast of Trumpets, than any other feast. No other Feast even comes close. - No Last Trumpet - No trumpets with any other feast. (except blowing a trumpet on Day of Atonement in Jubilee year).
- no Day of Shouting,
- no open door, Heaven's gate/door opened
- no coronation of kings,
- no resurrection, no wedding imagery,
- no trumpets. No other Feast even has trumpets. Harpazo is found in 1 Thes 4:16-17, which is the resurrection of the dead. Jews for centuries (and even now) understand that the resurrection happens at Yom Teruah. Jews also understand that the doors of heaven are opened at Feast of Trumpets and closed at Day of Atonement. 'Harpazo' is not found in any other passage connected to or describing a feast.
But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! The jews were asking if he was going to set up is kingdom. Which kingdom? The Millennial kingdom! When does this get set up? After the Tribulation! After the harpazo! After the times of the gentiles!
Thanks for your comments! I absolutely appreciate anyone poking holes in any hypothesis a make! I also am more than willing to alter my hypotheses based upon new information/ideas! I do see where I have apparently misstated what I am trying to say. But also I see something in what you said that still fits with what I may call the Jewish model (for lack of a more presently precise term). Allow me to clarify: When I said the harpazo is for the gentiles not the jews, I should have said the converse to more accurately make my point: The feasts are for the Jews, not the gentiles. Therefore, a feast would not necessarily indicate a harpazo. This appears to be the case, as we are all still here, notwithstanding Yom Teruah this year! However, there is a clear indication in scripture, IMHO, where Jesus is talking about the second coming, and we have conflated that with the harpazo. For instance, much of Matt 24 is related to the Jews, the Tribulation and the Second Coming, not the gentiles. So what I am asking is: What if the Yom Teruah parallels the Second Coming, in 2024, not the harpazo? How would we map this chronologically? Work backwards from then to see what dates we get for this year (7 years prior), right? Don't those dates fall between 9/30 and 11/19? Such a hypothesis, would [not just in hindsight, but also not necessarily] prior to 9/23, have indicated that 9/23 was not a 'valid' date for the harpazo, right? Is this a little more clear? Sometimes I fall on my face trying to explain my (non-math) thought processes. Precisely and I do believe that the "Trump" of God in 1Cor 15:51 and 1Th 4:17 is just that. The Trump of God, a Shout and really has nothing to do with the feasts it's self. |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 24, 2017 14:52:44 GMT -6
How about Isa 66:7 and 26:17-...? Especially 26:18? The Jews wont see it until after! Just as an aside, looking at each of the 4 previously fulfilled feasts: Passover - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of unleavened bread - for the jews, not the gentiles Feast of first-fruits - for the jews, not the gentiles Pentecost - for the jews, not the gentiles I'm trying to think critically and am just another watchman with you guys- and so blessed to be able to share ideas - ;-) The problem with this model, is that as of this point, at the fulfillment of the first three - there was no church and even by Pentecost a very small number of Gentile believers, so the first four Spring feasts were categorically different. One of the biggest problems of many churches and denominations today is that they totally discount and ignore the Feasts, and miss crucial keys about End Times. **In Colossians 4, Paul was speaking to a mixed audience - and he said that the Feasts are a shadow of (Point to) things to come. Hypothesis: T he harpazo is for the gentiles! Not the Jews! The feasts do not apply to the harpazo! Harpazo is for all those who have accepted the Messiah - Jewish and Gentile. There are tens of thousands of Messianic Jews, maybe millions, - It is certainly for these. Also, there is more markers, more parallels between Harpazo/rapture and Feast of Trumpets, than any other feast. No other Feast even comes close. - No Last Trumpet - No trumpets with any other feast. (except blowing a trumpet on Day of Atonement in Jubilee year).
- no Day of Shouting,
- no open door, Heaven's gate/door opened
- no coronation of kings,
- no resurrection, no wedding imagery,
- no trumpets. No other Feast even has trumpets. Harpazo is found in 1 Thes 4:16-17, which is the resurrection of the dead. Jews for centuries (and even now) understand that the resurrection happens at Yom Teruah. Jews also understand that the doors of heaven are opened at Feast of Trumpets and closed at Day of Atonement. 'Harpazo' is not found in any other passage connected to or describing a feast.
But they DO apply to the second coming! Matthew 24! The jews were asking if he was going to set up is kingdom. Which kingdom? The Millennial kingdom! When does this get set up? After the Tribulation! After the harpazo! After the times of the gentiles!
Thanks for your comments! I absolutely appreciate anyone poking holes in any hypothesis a make! I also am more than willing to alter my hypotheses based upon new information/ideas! I do see where I have apparently misstated what I am trying to say. But also I see something in what you said that still fits with what I may call the Jewish model (for lack of a more presently precise term). Allow me to clarify: When I said the harpazo is for the gentiles not the jews, I should have said the converse to more accurately make my point: The feasts are for the Jews, not the gentiles. Therefore, a feast would not necessarily indicate a harpazo. This appears to be the case, as we are all still here, notwithstanding Yom Teruah this year! However, there is a clear indication in scripture, IMHO, where Jesus is talking about the second coming, and we have conflated that with the harpazo. For instance, much of Matt 24 is related to the Jews, the Tribulation and the Second Coming, not the gentiles. So what I am asking is: What if the Yom Teruah parallels the Second Coming, in 2024, not the harpazo? How would we map this chronologically? Work backwards from then to see what dates we get for this year (7 years prior), right? Don't those dates fall between 9/30 and 11/19? Such a hypothesis, would [not just in hindsight, but also not necessarily] prior to 9/23, have indicated that 9/23 was not a 'valid' date for the harpazo, right? Is this a little more clear? Sometimes I fall on my face trying to explain my (non-math) thought processes. But if you're making a new timeline based on Jesus returning on the Feast of Trumpets instead of Atonement (correct?) aren't you assuming that the full day count of 1260 + 1290 (or 1260, depending on how you view the extra 30 days) has to be completed before Jesus arrives on mt of Olives? Why can't the count still end on DoA but Jesus arrive earlier? That wouldn't change anything, would it? |
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Post by anonymouse on Sept 24, 2017 17:11:43 GMT -6
I agree bruce, If the sign is pointing to this year, technically the Feast of trumpets is over. I have to admit that my best thinking here was wrong. The moon is also starting to leave the under foot position..... Lots to ponder. I think it might be good to start looking at a possible pause in revelation 12 which could send this into extended overtime... the pause is the word "then"Revelation 12New King James Version (NKJV)
The Woman, the Child, and the Dragon
12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. how long for the overtime? |
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