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Post by disciple4life on Sept 26, 2017 13:45:25 GMT -6
The thing that are are trying to prove out with this method is that all of your dates would line up - historical and future.
We do not know 'when' the Trib starts, but we can add a few more assumptions and see if we get a working model. For instance: an assumption that the second coming will occur on a given feast date in 2024.
Whether we have a known start point (we dont) or a known end date (can be assumed) we do have a day count. So it is a matter of creating a model and comparing the hypothesis to the model.
Actually though, we have a day count that equals a certain number of months... 42 months, which equals a "time, times and half a time (X,Xs,1/2X)." X,Xs1/2X would be based on 360 day years and would be 360+(2)360+(1/2)360. Thus, X,Xs,1/2X = 42 months = 1260 days. I know none of this is "new" but maybe if we consider it all together we gain some insight? Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.Rev 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Rev 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.Rev 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Then all we have are a few more verses which gives us extra details:Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” Dan 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” So we know the whole period is a week of years, meaning seven years. The two halves of which would equal 3 1/2 years each. But does 3 1/2 years necessarily equal X,Xs,1/2X, 42 months and 1260 days? It seems like the answer is "no." The verse with the 1290 day count seems to indicate that there is a leap month added into one of the 3 1/2 years sets. Each set of 1260 day periods cannot have a leap month added into it, so the leap month must occur either before or after one (or both) periods begin and/or end. The verse that says "in the middle of the week" may be vague because it is not literally meaning one single day, but may in fact indicate the entire time of the extra 30 days from the 1290 day count. A 30 day time period would allow the 3 1/2 days the witnesses are dead, allow the AC to set up the AoD, and allow the remnant to flee into the wilderness, all of which is doubtful could be accomplished in one day, or would cause the 1260 day time periods to overlap. Thus, "in the middle of the week" literally would mean the 30 day month exactly in the middle of the 7 years, flanked by 1260 days on both sides. The witnesses are in the first 1260 days, and the woman is nourished in the wilderness while the AC has absolute power during the latter 1260 days. Again, it sounds to me like the extra 30 days is in the middle of the week, but this presents a problem with the idea that the witnesses are killed on Passover and resurrected and raptured on First Fruits, 3 1/2 days later as the text says, because the traditional time for adding a leap month is right before Nisan. The only way this can be remedied is if the witnesses do not show up for the first month of the 7 years or the leap month is added within the 2nd half of the 7 years. In this case, the extra 30 day period (not necessarily the actual leap month) must be before the remnant flees or after the period where she is nourished. Again though, if it's anywhere other than in the middle, the witnesses' deaths will overlap into the second 1260 days and the remnant will literally have maybe one day to flee to the wilderness. That seems implausible to me. These numbers God has given us in scripture makes the months exactly 30 days each, or at least to fit within a 360 day calendar. It sounds to me like we're overthinking this and God is going to revert back to HIS calendar, maybe even cause the earth's rotation around the sun to speed back up to 360 days. I don't know if we can look forward based on our calendar to figure out the timeline. I don't know if this actually helped, lol 😇 Great points, Missusmack,
Sounds like you and I and yardstick are saying the same thing - at least as it relates to the Tribulation period. We have an exact day count for the first 3 1/2 years - Hebrew year/ Ancient prophetic calendar, and the exact day count for the second half. 1290 days. In that sense we don't have to 'figure it out' but this does not help at all in terms of helping give any clarity or any evidence whatsoever to prove this is a Jubilee year. I think it would be the most perfect fulfillment that we could imagine, and this would indeed provoke the Jews to Jealousy - that the Jubilee years had been restored and all that was wrong was set right, the King came on Day of Atonement, and takes a Gentile bride. I'm loving it. ;-)
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 26, 2017 13:58:27 GMT -6
I understand your point, Truthseeker. Technically it's one year cycle, but that's very imprecise, and the real issue, is that while it is technically a "one year cycle" the leap year is an extra 30 days. - Are you counting 354 day Metonic Year -used for more than 1000 years.
- Are you using an 'ancient Babylonian lunar calendar' with 360 days,
- Or are you using a Metonic Leap year with 384 days,
- Are you using the added Adar II
**This is why Jewish astronomers and rabbis can't figure it out - as follows:
There is strong evidence to support the theory that OT patriarchs (and Babylonians and Egyptians used a 360 day calendar) but Jews for centuries have used the Metonic cycle. They realized that the lunar cycle was 11 days shorter. They also realized that this made all the Fall Feasts 'shift' into the Spring and vice versa. They added an extra Leap month, to compensate for the shorter Lunar cycle. **Buckle up, it gets trickier. They use the Metonic cycle, which adds 7 leap years in 19 year Metonic cycle. Just adding one every two years is too many. Adding a leap year every 3 years is too few. ;-( The Ancient (sometimes called prophetic calendar only adds a leap year once every six years.) This is how they come up with the 1260 days in Daniel. 3 x 360 =1080. 360 /2 = 180 - Half a year. 1080 + 180 =1260 - First half, but there's the leap year with extra 30 days. 1260 days +30 days =1290. We know precisely that the Tribulation has 2550 days. Whether we call them Elf years, Gregorian years, or Hobbit Thrneaiusrvessne. We can count back 50 years and see significant piece of prophecy - Jerusalem being reclaimed. We can count back 100 years and see Balfour Declaration. We could count back 600 years or 750 years, and it may show some significant event, but it doesn't prove or even indicate that that was a Jubilee year. -Also, it's clear that we can't use Gregorian years, but which Jewish year do you use. ? Metonic cycle, with 354 regular days and 7 leap years for every 19 year cycle, or "prophetic" calendar with 360 days and leap year added every six. ??
Errr ok disciple4life , my head just exploded. I'll be back after I pick up the pieces  Yeah, Rick, I'm right with you, buddy. It makes my head spin too. I really like looking at the 'tribulation charts'. And I think the most incredible perfect fulfillment squared would be that the Messiah returns and if he does it on Day of Atonement, that he fulfills the Feast of Trumpets and Jubilee year, reinstating what has been lost for centuries. No one even knows when the last Jubilee was observed. If the Jewish rabbis - well-trained in astronomy and they were weaned on new moons and lunar cycles - and adding leap months, and extra leap years, and they can't even tell us how to know if any year is a Jubilee year, then, I think OK. Maybe that's one of those things we'll know in heaven. At least we know some of the specific markers for the beginning of the tribulation. I plan to be among those raptured - heheh. If it turns out that the rapture is mid trib -- Just think - the notion of no one knows the day or hour just gets pulverized. Daniel gave us an exact day count - with bodies of the witnesses laying in the streets for 3 1/2 days. Maranatha.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 26, 2017 14:29:35 GMT -6
Actually though, we have a day count that equals a certain number of months... 42 months, which equals a "time, times and half a time (X,Xs,1/2X)." X,Xs1/2X would be based on 360 day years and would be 360+(2)360+(1/2)360. Thus, X,Xs,1/2X = 42 months = 1260 days. I know none of this is "new" but maybe if we consider it all together we gain some insight? Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.Rev 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Rev 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.Rev 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Then all we have are a few more verses which gives us extra details:Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” Dan 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” So we know the whole period is a week of years, meaning seven years. The two halves of which would equal 3 1/2 years each. But does 3 1/2 years necessarily equal X,Xs,1/2X, 42 months and 1260 days? It seems like the answer is "no." The verse with the 1290 day count seems to indicate that there is a leap month added into one of the 3 1/2 years sets. Each set of 1260 day periods cannot have a leap month added into it, so the leap month must occur either before or after one (or both) periods begin and/or end. The verse that says "in the middle of the week" may be vague because it is not literally meaning one single day, but may in fact indicate the entire time of the extra 30 days from the 1290 day count. A 30 day time period would allow the 3 1/2 days the witnesses are dead, allow the AC to set up the AoD, and allow the remnant to flee into the wilderness, all of which is doubtful could be accomplished in one day, or would cause the 1260 day time periods to overlap. Thus, "in the middle of the week" literally would mean the 30 day month exactly in the middle of the 7 years, flanked by 1260 days on both sides. The witnesses are in the first 1260 days, and the woman is nourished in the wilderness while the AC has absolute power during the latter 1260 days. Again, it sounds to me like the extra 30 days is in the middle of the week, but this presents a problem with the idea that the witnesses are killed on Passover and resurrected and raptured on First Fruits, 3 1/2 days later as the text says, because the traditional time for adding a leap month is right before Nisan. The only way this can be remedied is if the witnesses do not show up for the first month of the 7 years or the leap month is added within the 2nd half of the 7 years. In this case, the extra 30 day period (not necessarily the actual leap month) must be before the remnant flees or after the period where she is nourished. Again though, if it's anywhere other than in the middle, the witnesses' deaths will overlap into the second 1260 days and the remnant will literally have maybe one day to flee to the wilderness. That seems implausible to me. These numbers God has given us in scripture makes the months exactly 30 days each, or at least to fit within a 360 day calendar. It sounds to me like we're overthinking this and God is going to revert back to HIS calendar, maybe even cause the earth's rotation around the sun to speed back up to 360 days. I don't know if we can look forward based on our calendar to figure out the timeline. I don't know if this actually helped, lol 😇 Great points, Missusmack,
Sounds like you and I and yardstick are saying the same thing - at least as it relates to the Tribulation period. We have an exact day count for the first 3 1/2 years - Hebrew year/ Ancient prophetic calendar, and the exact day count for the second half. 1290 days. In that sense we don't have to 'figure it out' but this does not help at all in terms of helping give any clarity or any evidence whatsoever to prove this is a Jubilee year. I think it would be the most perfect fulfillment that we could imagine, and this would indeed provoke the Jews to Jealousy - that the Jubilee years had been restored and all that was wrong was set right, the King came on Day of Atonement, and takes a Gentile bride. I'm loving it. ;-)
But it also made perfect sense that the rapture would occur on the Feast of Trumpets... maybe all that's needed for the Jews to be provoked to jealousy is to hear "the Last Trump" themselves, not be raptured, and find out Christians were. If the anomalous shofar sounds people have been hearing, recording and putting up as YouTube videos are true, I bet it's Satan trying to set up an "explanation" or at least a precedent where nobody was raptured after hearing one of these "trumps" because he knows "when the Last Trump sounds" it will be heard by everyone. But not everyone will be taken, obviously. Just a thought! |
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Post by yardstick on Sept 26, 2017 15:56:37 GMT -6
The thing that are are trying to prove out with this method is that all of your dates would line up - historical and future.
We do not know 'when' the Trib starts, but we can add a few more assumptions and see if we get a working model. For instance: an assumption that the second coming will occur on a given feast date in 2024.
Whether we have a known start point (we dont) or a known end date (can be assumed) we do have a day count. So it is a matter of creating a model and comparing the hypothesis to the model.
Actually though, we have a day count that equals a certain number of months... 42 months, which equals a "time, times and half a time (X,Xs,1/2X)." X,Xs1/2X would be based on 360 day years and would be 360+(2)360+(1/2)360. Thus, X,Xs,1/2X = 42 months = 1260 days. I know none of this is "new" but maybe if we consider it all together we gain some insight? Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.Rev 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Rev 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.Rev 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Then all we have are a few more verses which gives us extra details:Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” Dan 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” So we know the whole period is a week of years, meaning seven years. The two halves of which would equal 3 1/2 years each. But does 3 1/2 years necessarily equal X,Xs,1/2X, 42 months and 1260 days? It seems like the answer is "no." The verse with the 1290 day count seems to indicate that there is a leap month added into one of the 3 1/2 years sets. Each set of 1260 day periods cannot have a leap month added into it, so the leap month must occur either before or after one (or both) periods begin and/or end. The verse that says "in the middle of the week" may be vague because it is not literally meaning one single day, but may in fact indicate the entire time of the extra 30 days from the 1290 day count. A 30 day time period would allow the 3 1/2 days the witnesses are dead, allow the AC to set up the AoD, and allow the remnant to flee into the wilderness, all of which is doubtful could be accomplished in one day, or would cause the 1260 day time periods to overlap. Thus, "in the middle of the week" literally would mean the 30 day month exactly in the middle of the 7 years, flanked by 1260 days on both sides. The witnesses are in the first 1260 days, and the woman is nourished in the wilderness while the AC has absolute power during the latter 1260 days. Again, it sounds to me like the extra 30 days is in the middle of the week, but this presents a problem with the idea that the witnesses are killed on Passover and resurrected and raptured on First Fruits, 3 1/2 days later as the text says, because the traditional time for adding a leap month is right before Nisan. The only way this can be remedied is if the witnesses do not show up for the first month of the 7 years or the leap month is added within the 2nd half of the 7 years. In this case, the extra 30 day period (not necessarily the actual leap month) must be before the remnant flees or after the period where she is nourished. Again though, if it's anywhere other than in the middle, the witnesses' deaths will overlap into the second 1260 days and the remnant will literally have maybe one day to flee to the wilderness. That seems implausible to me. These numbers God has given us in scripture makes the months exactly 30 days each, or at least to fit within a 360 day calendar. It sounds to me like we're overthinking this and God is going to revert back to HIS calendar, maybe even cause the earth's rotation around the sun to speed back up to 360 days. I don't know if we can look forward based on our calendar to figure out the timeline. I don't know if this actually helped, lol 😇 Hey MM,
Can you check this out and post your thoughts? Thanks
unsealed.boards.net/thread/962/potential-timelines
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Post by chohouston on Oct 2, 2017 10:13:14 GMT -6
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